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Wow, that live stream was a complete waste of time

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  • AK712AK712
    Reactions: 1,275
    Posts: 86
    Member
    edited March 2017
    AKradian wrote: »
    Look, CM Arwoo, with all due respect: what the players want from you is information, not entertainment.

    And once again you claim to speak for the entire Maplestory userbase, when in all reality, you're only speaking for yourself.

    With all due respect, everyone knows all you care about is attention. You've been complaining for 6 YEARS. Well, guess what? There are maybe 50 people who visit these forums weekly. And I'd say only 5-10 of those actually play the game regularly. So in all reality, you're just preaching to the choir... or rather, complaining to it. You make no impact anywhere. And you never will.

    I go to Twitch and watch for entertainment. I am a player. So I just proved you wrong.
  • AggraphineAggraphine
    Reactions: 6,675
    Posts: 1,136
    Member
    edited March 2017
    AK712 wrote: »
    AKradian wrote: »
    Look, CM Arwoo, with all due respect: what the players want from you is information, not entertainment.

    And once again you claim to speak for the entire Maplestory userbase, when in all reality, you're only speaking for yourself.

    With all due respect, everyone knows all you care about is attention. You've been complaining for 6 YEARS. Well, guess what? There are maybe 50 people who visit these forums weekly. And I'd say only 5-10 of those actually play the game regularly. So in all reality, you're just preaching to the choir... or rather, complaining to it. You make no impact anywhere. And you never will.

    I go to Twitch and watch for entertainment. I am a player. So I just proved you wrong.

    A balance of both is needed. The Community Manager is a line of communication between the players and the company, alongside being a sort of source of entertainment as well. Ideally, you'd get equal parts entertainment and information, but from what I've seen so far that appears to be more of a 70/30 split. Needs a bit of work, tbh.

    Another thing to keep in mind is that there hasn't been a dedicated CM for maple in a good three-and-a-half months. Since Michael was let go back in December, OneLetter and Saygo have been the only lines, albeit minimally due to their myriad other responsibilities beyond this forum, between players here and Nexon. A touch of animosity and discontent is to be expected, really, especially when the newly-revealed CM spends his first week not really doing much on the downstream information side of things.
  • forumsareannoyingforumsareannoying
    Reactions: 2,735
    Posts: 337
    Member
    edited March 2017
    AK712 wrote: »
    AKradian wrote: »
    Look, CM Arwoo, with all due respect: what the players want from you is information, not entertainment.

    And once again you claim to speak for the entire Maplestory userbase, when in all reality, you're only speaking for yourself.

    With all due respect, everyone knows all you care about is attention. You've been complaining for 6 YEARS. Well, guess what? There are maybe 50 people who visit these forums weekly. And I'd say only 5-10 of those actually play the game regularly. So in all reality, you're just preaching to the choir... or rather, complaining to it. You make no impact anywhere. And you never will.

    I go to Twitch and watch for entertainment. I am a player. So I just proved you wrong.

    I don't understand, what are you trying to say? Or did you just want to offend him?

    And how did you prove him wrong just because you go to twitch?
  • BooberpuppyBooberpuppy
    Reactions: 3,395
    Posts: 323
    Member
    edited March 2017
    AKradian wrote: »
    In general, Arwoo made it quite plain that what he took the job for is to "create content" (like the memes he's been Tweeting for a while, and both he and SavageAce were disappointed nobody asked "who's coming up with this stuff?"), not to be a channel of communications between players and Nexon. I hope to be proven wrong, but right now it looks like we're in for a really bad ride with this one. At least those of us who care more about the game itself than about "community activities."


    Yep. I will be much more inclined to focus on "community activities" once the major issues are sorted out, the game is back in good working order, and the players who are passionate enough to even bother regularly coming to these forums with feedback from our own vast Maplestory gameplay-backed experiences start getting listened to and actually taken seriously for once. So Nexon can talk, well it is now time to see that talk reflected in this game with some much needed changes.
  • EnepttasticEnepttastic
    Reactions: 420
    Posts: 11
    Member
    edited March 2017
    Not going to mutter about the livestream since I tend to stay away from em regardless of the developer. Tend to feel like a waste of time to me. If others enjoy them, that's fine. However, I do wish what I read about the info given was more promising.

    That said, there is a reason I ceased my lurking and I'm going to apologize in advance for how blunt it's going to be...
    Arwoo wrote: »
    In the distant past, I was a player emotionally attached to the game I was a Community Manager for. That commitment to the game was a powerful tool when it came to finding all the issues affecting our vocal player base. Making claims that this emotional attachment is something that isn't desirable within any publishing/developing company is difficult for me to accept. Making speculations that I'm no longer passionate is also difficult for me to accept.

    I really hope that there's a failure to communicate here because being able to accept the fact that there are going to be negative views about you and the company you work for, valid or not, is very low on the list of downsides to the job you've taken on.

    Everything you say will be critiqued, quoted(in and out of context), misinterpreted and more. There'll be people who think the worst of you, your dedication to the job, your dedication to the game, and your employers. Many will go beyond merely thinking the worst and will flat-out state it and manage to persuade others to believe them. You will be laughed at, mocked, taunted, and worse. You will never please everyone and even if you were completely perfect at the job, there will still be people thinking you should do more.

    Then there's the fact that you are now the liaison between the developers and the players. Developers do something that irritates the player-base? You are the one with the job to deal with all of the abuse. You're the one who's supposed to wade through all of the vitriol, placate the masses while looking for feedback within it.

    If you truly can't accept the idea that people are forming negative opinions of you, I'd honestly recommend looking at a different career path because being a CM for any game with a decent-sized population is not going to go well for you and by extension Maplestory and its players. I will reiterate that I do hope this is more of a issue of miscommunication and this post wasn't needed though.
    MaplerOver9000
  • chaoscauserchaoscauser
    Reactions: 3,780
    Posts: 525
    Member, Private Tester
    edited March 2017
    Arwoo wrote: »
    Ahoy, everyone! Before I get into the bulk of my response, I'd like to thank you guys for tuning into my first livestream for MapleStory!
    Now then, lets shine some light on some of the speculations mixed in with this feedback:
    AKradian wrote: »
    Feedback:
    Started late, ended on the dot, kept talking about "how do we stretch the time between serious questions as long as we possibly can". Couldn't wait to get away from us.
    AKradian wrote: »
    Yet he did ask for questions in his introductory thread http://forums.maplestory.nexon.net/discussion/10968/ahoys-from-cm-arwoo and kept teasing with "I'll answer this on stream" - so he was trying to generate viewership for the stream, and at the same time not?

    We wanted to keep the livestream relevant for the players tuning in. It wouldn't have made sense to promote the livestream on our social platforms as those communities were not a part of the AMA introduction thread. Viewership wasn't the intention behind the livestream. Instead, I strongly believed it would be a great idea to let you guys know that a lot of the hot issues aren't being ignored while being a fun way to introduce myself... real self!
    AKradian wrote: »
    All our CM's except for KThxBaiNao were not players. I guess Nexon did not like how emotionally involved KThxBaiNao was and how much he cared about player issues (both individuals, like falsely banned people, and in general, like the Magnus drop restrictions). So they tried to get someone who is generally familiar with the game (Arwoo used to play, until 2012) but no longer passionate about it. He did start over and has a level 187 Angelic Buster in Reboot, FWIW.
    Personally I think this is a mistake, because having played the game a long time ago doesn't really give one more familiarity with current issues than someone completely new who just started. Arwoo doesn't even seem particularly nostalgic. He told of his past, running CWKPQ, but never commented on when the PQ might return, revamped or otherwise, despite the twitch chat asking about it.

    It's tough to address speculations such as this since these are conclusions players have drawn from what they perceive, however, I will try my best!

    In the distant past, I was a player emotionally attached to the game I was a Community Manager for. That commitment to the game was a powerful tool when it came to finding all the issues affecting our vocal player base. Making claims that this emotional attachment is something that isn't desirable within any publishing/developing company is difficult for me to accept. Making speculations that I'm no longer passionate is also difficult for me to accept.

    For the past weeks I've dedicated all of my free time towards leveling my character to reach endgame content. This isn't to drive a point across to the community. I said it on the livestream, but I really do enjoy large scale boss fights and want to run them with players as a player in the future. Perhaps players may think my progression is slow, but as a returning player, I want to experience the story, explore each new area, and meet new people *coughtoadmiretheirpixelscough*

    I apologize if certain issues did not receive the attention that it deserved, but the intention behind the livestream was to introduce myself to the players in a more fun way while letting you guys know we're not sweeping issues under the rug.

    Thank you guys again!

    Issues not being ignored? Many players have an issue with you removing the game launcher yet you are still going ahead with it.
  • AKradianAKradian
    Reactions: 28,825
    Posts: 4,027
    Member, Private Tester
    edited March 2017
    Arwoo wrote: »
    AKradian wrote: »
    All our CM's except for KThxBaiNao were not players. I guess Nexon did not like how emotionally involved KThxBaiNao was and how much he cared about player issues (both individuals, like falsely banned people, and in general, like the Magnus drop restrictions). So they tried to get someone who is generally familiar with the game (Arwoo used to play, until 2012) but no longer passionate about it. He did start over and has a level 187 Angelic Buster in Reboot, FWIW.
    Personally I think this is a mistake, because having played the game a long time ago doesn't really give one more familiarity with current issues than someone completely new who just started. Arwoo doesn't even seem particularly nostalgic. He told of his past, running CWKPQ, but never commented on when the PQ might return, revamped or otherwise, despite the twitch chat asking about it.

    It's tough to address speculations such as this since these are conclusions players have drawn from what they perceive, however, I will try my best!

    In the distant past, I was a player emotionally attached to the game I was a Community Manager for. That commitment to the game was a powerful tool when it came to finding all the issues affecting our vocal player base. Making claims that this emotional attachment is something that isn't desirable within any publishing/developing company is difficult for me to accept. Making speculations that I'm no longer passionate is also difficult for me to accept.

    You misunderstood me. I'm all for CMs who are passionate about their game. But it seems to me Nexon does not think this emotional attachment is a good thing. They prefer CMs who are "on the company's side" rather than "the players' side".
    And I think it's a safe bet that someone who quit a game 4-5 years ago, is no longer passionate about it.

    Apropos getting to know the real you, and all these references to "the distant past": How old are you, anyway?
    Arwoo wrote: »
    For the past weeks I've dedicated all of my free time towards leveling my character to reach endgame content. This isn't to drive a point across to the community. I said it on the livestream, but I really do enjoy large scale boss fights and want to run them with players as a player in the future. Perhaps players may think my progression is slow, but as a returning player, I want to experience the story, explore each new area, and meet new people *coughtoadmiretheirpixelscough*

    Free time? So Nexon doesn't actually give you any on-the-clock time to familiarize yourself with the game. That's good to know.
    Anyway, don't forget your link skills. Leveling them will both make you stronger, and let you learn at least the basics of many classes and their stories.
    Arwoo wrote: »
    I apologize if certain issues did not receive the attention that it deserved, but the intention behind the livestream was to introduce myself to the players in a more fun way while letting you guys know we're not sweeping issues under the rug.

    Not sweeping issues under the rug?
    When SavageAce gives the exact same answer to the UTC issue that he gave 3 months ago, and things just keep getting worse in-game, the pile of dirt might not be under the rug, but it sure isn't being taken care of, either.

    Or, as chaoscauser pointed out, the Nexon Launcher issue. Hearing the same thing we've already read at least 3 times, is not going to make it any more convincing. You need to fix Nexon Launcher before removing the working alternative. Were you playing last Saturday? Did you notice the Nexon Launcher (and Steam launcher) not working for many hours, while GameLauncher worked just fine? Are you, as a player, ok with that?

    ----

    @Enepttastic , Arwoo has said he's been CM for 3 games in the past. If he doesn't know by now that that makes him the sandbag between community and company, taking bullets from both sides, then those other 3 games must have been either very tiny or completely perfect.
  • InvulgoInvulgo
    Reactions: 3,950
    Posts: 438
    Volunteer Forum Moderator
    edited March 2017
    Not going to mutter about the livestream since I tend to stay away from em regardless of the developer. Tend to feel like a waste of time to me. If others enjoy them, that's fine. However, I do wish what I read about the info given was more promising.

    That said, there is a reason I ceased my lurking and I'm going to apologize in advance for how blunt it's going to be...
    Arwoo wrote: »
    In the distant past, I was a player emotionally attached to the game I was a Community Manager for. That commitment to the game was a powerful tool when it came to finding all the issues affecting our vocal player base. Making claims that this emotional attachment is something that isn't desirable within any publishing/developing company is difficult for me to accept. Making speculations that I'm no longer passionate is also difficult for me to accept.

    I really hope that there's a failure to communicate here because being able to accept the fact that there are going to be negative views about you and the company you work for, valid or not, is very low on the list of downsides to the job you've taken on.

    Everything you say will be critiqued, quoted(in and out of context), misinterpreted and more. There'll be people who think the worst of you, your dedication to the job, your dedication to the game, and your employers. Many will go beyond merely thinking the worst and will flat-out state it and manage to persuade others to believe them. You will be laughed at, mocked, taunted, and worse. You will never please everyone and even if you were completely perfect at the job, there will still be people thinking you should do more.

    Then there's the fact that you are now the liaison between the developers and the players. Developers do something that irritates the player-base? You are the one with the job to deal with all of the abuse. You're the one who's supposed to wade through all of the vitriol, placate the masses while looking for feedback within it.

    If you truly can't accept the idea that people are forming negative opinions of you, I'd honestly recommend looking at a different career path because being a CM for any game with a decent-sized population is not going to go well for you and by extension Maplestory and its players. I will reiterate that I do hope this is more of a issue of miscommunication and this post wasn't needed though.

    It wasn’t about whether he can take criticism or not, the way I interpret that section of the post it was to address the statement that the “company doesn’t want a CM who is passionate about the game” and how false that is. Also addressing the implication that he isn't passionate about the game.


  • EnepttasticEnepttastic
    Reactions: 420
    Posts: 11
    Member
    edited March 2017
    Invulgo wrote: »
    It wasn’t about whether he can take criticism or not, the way I interpret that section of the post it was to address the statement that the “company doesn’t want a CM who is passionate about the game” and how false that is. Also addressing the implication that he isn't passionate about the game.

    Like I said in my original post, I'm willing to believe there's a chance of a miscommunication happening. Based on what was said, however, your interpretation is off. When a speaker says that they find a concept "difficult to accept" they generally mean that they either have trouble wrapping their head around the notion or that the concept is emotionally wounding. Not that they disagree with it. Compound that with the fact that neither opinion is terribly hard to understand and warning bells went off. If those concepts were, in fact, difficult for Arwoo to accept, then this job's probably going to cause a great deal more stress than I'm sure it's going to have already which is why I made that post. A CM, or anyone in a PR job for that matter, should have a thick skin and be able to understand differing points of view.

    That aside, if Arwoo's intention was to disagree with those opinions, then there's work to be had there. No matter how nicely it was said, when the response is boiled down, it essentially was nothing more than, "Nuh-uh." That tends to do little to sway opinion. I will admit that changing both of those opinions are going to require more action than talk but some additional substance to that response might have helped some.

    Either way, the post was meant to be a friendly, if blunt, head's up based on what information I had to work with.