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Hello my name is Clantafamo

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  • OneOne
    Reactions: 675
    Posts: 12
    Member
    edited April 20
    Arwoo wrote: »
    As stated through various private messages, conclusive evidence was found from looking through each case extensively.

    Maple has a ton of bugs, frequently has typos, sometimes QA fails to verify certain fixes, server maintenance extended due to human error/unforeseeable events(we get it, you're human) but when it comes to investigating and banning these exploiters (december cube exploit and arcane weapon exploit are two great examples), Nexon happens to be flawless and makes no mistakes.

    The difference is, we KNOW when you guys make a mistake in terms of bugs, maintenance time extensions, typos and "miscommunication between departments" (see: GM event) because we see it-- the evidence is right there. In the case of investigating and banning for exploits, we can't see ALL the evidence but most of the time, we are able to see the player's side. We see so many of these player's story and how consistent they are even years apart that we have to conclude that, no, you guys are not flawless in investigating these exploits/bans. You just refuse to man up and admit that you guys do make mistakes in these investigation/jump to the wrong conclusion based on lack of evidence when you can just hide it.

    I know this because I know someone from the december cube exploit that had nothing to do with it that got banned. I also know someone that made off with quite a few exploited items.

    http://puu.sh/vqIDy/53ec242c3a.jpg

    http://puu.sh/vqIKd/25bff34aa3.jpg
    (taken after the tradeblock+meso dropped to prove that Nexon's blanket tradeblock missed this)

    "evidence presented by the appealing player will always be skewed towards their favor"

    Yes and "facts" are known to have a liberal bias. If a player presents ALL relevant evidence that the community (actually knows how the game works/plays the game) requests, there's really no bias here. Facts are true statements. If a player is trying to prove that "if P then Q" then proceed on to show that all the premises are true, then Q must be true.

    You guys just did a survey on why people play maplestory and I'm confident that the "social aspect" is ranked top 2 if not ranked 1. Permanent bans have a negative impact on the social aspect. What happens to a guild when the guild master is permanently banned? Permanent bans are supposed to be a last resort for if the player is left unbanned, it will affect the game balance/fairness.

    Here's the maintenance note from 2011 (6th anniversary coin exploit) if you need a reminder of how you used to deal with exploiters and those who benefited off them by purchasing/trading with them:
    "The 6th Anniversary coins exploit has been blocked.
    Chaos scrolls are temporarily unusable and untradable.
    All items obtained with 6th Anniversary coins are temporarily untradable and have a value of 0 mesos if sold to an NPC.
    Chaos scrolls have been permanently removed from the list of items that can be obtained for 6th Anniversary coins.

    All players that abused this exploit will be banned, however we understand that some players may have simply made a poor decision, so all players will be given until 5/15/2011 to voluntarily remove the exploited items from their accounts by selling them to an NPC for 0 mesos. If all exploited items are removed in time, you will not be banned (please note that you must remove the items from ALL of your accounts.) Once our investigation is complete and all applicable bans are issued, we will return the items that remain to normal. We hope that most players will do the right thing and remove the items if they know they are exploited."
    laoshad0www
  • RaikyuRaikyu
    Reactions: 570
    Posts: 6
    Member
    edited April 20
    Arwoo, Of course we know the community isn't the jury. This is a public outcry about unfair and potentially broken nexon's support system is. When you guys give lackluster-automated responses in basically all your tickets, it really feels like you guys don't do your part in "investigations". I am not even sure about the quality of your team's investigation let alone, how nexon defines "equal" attention and "equality" in their investigations are; because if your team is just copy-and pasting responses it really doesn't feel like any work is put into these investigations. Every case is unique but you guys treat it, like a factory expediting goods.

    You mentioned that nexon treated all of these arcane expolit cases equally, it just make me wonder how many people actually got unbanned who appealed.

    On the side note, your support staff will revoke our rights to customer support if the individual is polite but stubborn and persistent, so I am not sure how that is even fair to us. I understand if the individual is rude, then by all means revoke that right, but for people who are desperately trying to fight an uphill battle, that shouldn't be happening or should be accepted.

    This isn't just about Clantafamo, its about innocent players getting ban because there is a broken system. Clantafamo is just one of many who appeal and request support from staff, but doesn't receive the attention it needs. Please, what harm can be done, if you open up the investigation again, and consider all factors that he presented.

    Tashielaoshad0wwwBXL
  • ClantaClanta
    Reactions: 540
    Posts: 2
    Member
    edited April 20
    Hello all,

    Thanks for all the continued support, Arwoo's post is accurate and we have been talking through private messages over the past month. He is doing his job and he has to stay transparent and not take sides. I hope that with this post and the support from the community it will draw more attention from other Nexon employees/GMs. Mistakes can happen and as many of us know that isn't something uncommon for Nexon. I hope that Nexon will take the time to investigate again with someone overlooking making sure that it is done properly. I know that this post is focused mainly on me but there have been many people falsely banned in the past(December 2015 cube exploit) and other cases. Whether or not we achieve our goal, I hope Nexon deals with future exploits accordingly and learns from their mistakes.
    Púrity
  • DragventurerDragventurer
    Reactions: 1,481
    Posts: 36
    Member
    edited April 20
    I support this post and Clanta as I believe he was wrongfully banned. There is no way he could have gotten an Arcane (Umbra) Weapon within five weeks prior to the release of Lachelein. Most, if not all, of his Lucid runs/kills were done on stream and viewers could clearly see in his inventory that he did not have sufficient stones to buy an Arcane (Umbra) Weapon. Some of us believe you, the company, wrongfully banned him because of the Blaze Wizard- I believe it was a Blaze Wizard- Clowntafamo. In no way these two are related and are not played by the same person.
  • CallUponMeCallUponMe
    Reactions: 535
    Post: 1
    Member
    edited April 20
    I’m fairly certain that Clanta is innocent. For him, there is no good reason to do so, and it just doesn’t make sense.

    He cannot possibly have an Arcane weapon.

    Let’s say he did do the exploit on his Night Lord. Since he is a regular streamer on Twitch, it would be difficult for him to hide or explain an abnormal amount of Butterfly Droplets (BD) in his inventory and would arouse suspicion.

    For obtaining the Arcane River Droplets (ARD), I don’t remember how long it took me, but I had maxed out my Lacheln symbol and obtained a total of 194 (or 196) ARD. Another user had obtained 200+ when his Lacheln symbol maxed out. If I remember correctly, Clanta’s Lacheln symbol was at most level 10. The only other character he has that can access Lacheln is his Cannoneer, but I think the level is in the low 22x, and if it obtained ARD, then very few. He would not have too many ARD and could not possibly make a weapon anyway.

    You could say “oh, but maybe he made BW/Blaster/Kinesis mules and mass farmed them”, but as a regular streamer on Twitch, I feel like this would be difficult to cover up. It would be suspicious if he didn’t want to show his characters. Also I don’t know the time it takes to get one of those characters to 22x+, do a bit of farming, then deletion of the character, but it seems like it would take a while to start up, and this would be difficult to maintain especially if he was regularly streaming.

    Besides, even if he had obtained enough ARD stashed up somewhere, his BD is the limiting factor.

    Let’s take this a step further, saying he did exploit exactly 24 (or 16 for an armor piece for some reason) and had enough ARD. Then what? Sure, having it right now would be nice, but he would have the equip sitting in his inventory just gathering dust. It would never be used until the right time, and accidentally hovering over it in a livestream would be disastrous.

    “What if he did it on another character on his account e.g his Cannoneer?”

    Well this one wouldn’t make much sense. The only characters (that I know of) that he plays are his Night Lord, Cannoneer and maybe Kinesis. The Kinesis isn’t that high up there, and he hardly plays his Cannoneer. Besides, even if it’s on some other character and he has to log on it, there would be suspicion if there’s an Arcane weapon on it.

    “Exploited on a character in another server?”

    Refer to his OP.

    Unless his urge for gratification for having the best weapon in the game supersedes a community, friends and reputation he has built from Reboot and the MapleStory Twitch community, I believe Clanta would never consider taking advantage of this exploit.

    Reasons for Ban

    Building on the premise that he was banned along with someone else who had a similar looking name to him, this is not out there. Ever since the Rhinne fiasco (if I remember correctly: banning based on video supplied evidence which was NEVER done before), Nexon (for me at least) has lost some credibility, so every single little reason (as silly as it may sound) should not be dismissed.

    Another reason I can think of is, what if he got hacked, and someone did the exploit on his account to get him banned? This sounds farfetched but could be possible. If so, this would be scary. I don’t have much to go off on this, but it’s something to consider.

    TL;DR: he could not have a weapon (or other Arcane piece) on him, even if he did, it would not make sense to have it now as he regularly streams and would be caught. Could have done on another character on his account, but highly unlikely because again, possession of Arcane gear on another character caught on livestream is bad. May have been banned for having a similar IGN to a hacker/exploiter, could have been hacked and someone exploited on his character to get him banned.

    I believe Clanta is innocent. I do not know him very well, but I believe he is smart enough to not consider such exploits with so much at stake. He has a fairly large circle of friends within the Reboot server, from the beginning and in recent times. He has also built up a large community, and is well-respected and trusted among it.

    If a player is banned for something they didn’t do, or for good reason then this is scary for all players.

    TamirkoDetrivanceRaikyuDaisukeHarutodarkemajikClantaAmityV
  • darkemajikdarkemajik
    Reactions: 710
    Post: 1
    Member, Private Tester
    edited April 20
    I have given a thorough read through Clanta's ban appeal, and based on the evidence, I'd say he has been wrongfully banned. Of course, I hold no authority in this case; I am no GM. However, due to him being a frequent streamer, I would say that his chances of exploiting Butterfly Droplets is very low. As mentioned above, an exploit would be easily noticed by his audience, and would result in some suspicion. This has never happened. Therefore, I would conclude that he was wrongfully banned.

    I hope that this issue gets resolved soon. It would be amazing to see that even if someone is wrongfully banned, they can redeem themselves through persistence and hard work. It would help the reputation of Nexon's support system. As stated in previous replies to this thread, Nexon's support system is questionable at times - there are automated responses with grammatical errors to many tickets. If actions were to be taken by GMs, it would result in good publicity, thus helping the company overall.

    Anyway, best of luck to Clanta; I hope to see his account restored to its former glory.
    DaisukeHaruto
  • BIackbeanBIackbean
    Reactions: 3,290
    Posts: 523
    Member
    edited April 23
    interesting. was it becuz chain ban? similar ign? ouch. but do hope that we read all this and this is nothing but the truth.
  • AKradianAKradian
    Reactions: 25,425
    Posts: 3,643
    Member, Private Tester
    edited April 23
    BIackbean wrote: »
    interesting. was it becuz chain ban? similar ign? ouch. but do hope that we read all this and this is nothing but the truth.

    You hope he's telling the truth?
    That means you hope Nexon perma-banned an innocent player, and are unable or unwilling to find/admit their mistake?
    I don't know about you, but that thought scares me. Who's to say I won't be next?
  • NeospectorNeospector
    Reactions: 4,960
    Posts: 855
    Volunteer Forum Moderator
    edited April 23
    AKradian wrote: »
    You hope he's telling the truth?
    That means you hope Nexon perma-banned an innocent player, and are unable or unwilling to find/admit their mistake?
    I don't know about you, but that thought scares me. Who's to say I won't be next?

    What about hoping Nexon lets a guilty party go free? Who's to say there won't be more "second chances"? I don't know about you but I find that just as scary as worrying about "who's next". Hypothetically speaking.

    Speculation gets people nowhere, nor does panicking about hypotheticals. In my personal opinion, this community is too easily influenced by any one opinion; when Rhinne was first banned, for example, everyone sided with them because of the "obvious" evidence located on the stream. When Nexon officially announced their guilt, everyone jumped ship and began mocking Rhinne. This isn't okay; players acted as if they knew Rhinne was innocent the minute the ban became public news, and players acted as if they knew all along that he was guilty the minute his guilt became public news. I don't mean to nor do I want to imply anything I don't know because I honestly can't say if Clanta is guilty or not, but it seems to me that the reason bans should be kept between Nexon and the banned player, as Arwoo said, is to prevent this sort of bandwagoning; we aren't here to judge players guilty or innocent, we're not their jury. We have had evidence of players lying about their bans, and we have had evidence of Nexon falsely banning players, but we, the rest of the community, can't say in any objective sense of the word that we know for certain who's correct.

    All this taking sides, speculation, hypotheticals...it's just that: taking sides, speculation, and hypotheticals. It doesn't help anyone, it just breeds tension and resentment toward whichever side we judge guilty (for the moment). The fact of the matter is that we don't know "who's next". We don't know if anyone will be "next". You could be. And if you are "next" you can start a thread similar to this one, and we can repeat the whole cycle of judgement all over again. Personally, I'd appreciate it if we could all just get along without judging and resenting others; it helps cut down on the stress. We can all play nice together, without resorting to accusations and fear-mongering.
    Let's all get along, please.
    MaplerOver9000Microsoft
  • AKradianAKradian
    Reactions: 25,425
    Posts: 3,643
    Member, Private Tester
    edited April 23
    Neospector wrote: »
    AKradian wrote: »
    You hope he's telling the truth?
    That means you hope Nexon perma-banned an innocent player, and are unable or unwilling to find/admit their mistake?
    I don't know about you, but that thought scares me. Who's to say I won't be next?

    What about hoping Nexon lets a guilty party go free? Who's to say there won't be more "second chances"? I don't know about you but I find that just as scary as worrying about "who's next". Hypothetically speaking.

    I'm sorry but that's nowhere near as scary. It's a lot less personal.
    There are guilty parties going free in the game all the time. Botters, hackers, RMT'ers, we see them all around us all the time. I don't know whether they're second-chancers or just never got caught. They're annoying and I wish they'd get banned, but their effect on my enjoyment of the game is nowhere near the effect that would be if I got banned out of nowhere and all my appeals rejected out of hand.

    Also in your story of Rhinne, you forgot the last stage: when public pressure made Nexon actually look into his ban, and unban him. He was lucky in that he knew what the evidence against him was, and was able to refute it. But usually Nexon won't even tell the banned person what they think they did, so if they are innocent they are not really able to hold a conversation "between Nexon and the banned player". All they can say is "I didn't do anything, please look at my case again" and get the same response "We know what you did" until it turns to "We know what you did and stop bothering us about it" and revoking their ticket/chat rights.

    I don't know about you but that's a much more personal fear than "guilty people are walking around free". And you yourself admitted that it happens: They do ban the innocent and they do refuse their appeals. KThxBaiNao got a few such false bans overturned by getting Sr. GMs involved (apparently, the tools available to ordinary GMs don't show all the evidence), but he's no longer there. Who would save the next one, whether it's Clanta or someone else?

    That is why, in my first post in this thread, I expressed the hope that if Clanta is innocent he will get unbanned, and if he's guilty we will be shown evidence.
    I think that when someone cheats, and especially if they post a public ban appeal such as this, they give up any right to "privacy" or "not be shamed". They've already been shamed by being banned and branded a cheater. Adding more detail won't make that worse, it will just put the community's mind at ease.
    MaplerOver9000Leighton_Retr0_