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Haku's blessing is unresonable

ṣaḍgatīḥṣaḍgatīḥ
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edited June 2017 in Suggestions, Feedback, and Requests
In old days, it is possible for players to hit the damage cap so haku's blessing is just a way to make life easier. However after V patch, people can hardly reach the damage cap and Haku's blessing is still the same. This make physics attack classes are not comparable to mages classes if they have a kanna in party. Consider the kanna have a basic arcane umbra fan equipped on her fox and it can offer 347*0.48=166 matt%. Suppose a mages in that party have 60 matt%, then haku's blessing make the range 2.0375 larger than the range without haku. This number can be even more astonishing with the basic ability improve of fan. This make mages team overpowered. I wonder why such a broke balance skill is still untouched after several patches.
DiscordOfColorsxOtaku

Comments

  • JushiroNetJushiroNet
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    edited June 2017
    It's supposed to be a self buff for the kanna. What are you doing nexon.
    MaplerOver9000xOtakuSlicedTimeSherri
  • DiscordOfColorsDiscordOfColors
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    edited June 2017
    true words, i'd hate to carry a kanna everywhere if i were a mage and i hate it even more as a "DPS" class. the fact that mages can just bring and afk mule to bosses to deal kill bosses x5 faster is ridiculous to say the least.
  • CatoooloooCatooolooo
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    edited June 2017
    think this is fair, no one needs to bring a kanna to do any boss, and it gives kanna's a unique party ability that isnt just reserved for "kishin mule" and allows kanna mains to be helpful when in partys, I thought this is what a lot of people wanted in their partyplay, or maybe people only cared about EXP.

    to me this is about as fair as someone having a kanna mule for kishin and or a HS mule or someone having link skills vs someone that doesnt (like a new player).

    And I'm someone who trains my lvl 200+ characters without a kanna mule and most times without a kanna friend on the map.

    All I see here are people whining about a party buff that won't benefit their chosen class, but I bet if it gave both att and Matt boosts, there wouldnt be a damn thing said about it in protest. Get over it I say.
    PetalmagicxNihilityBahamut_XSherri
  • PetalmagicPetalmagic
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    edited June 2017
    Catooolooo wrote: »
    think this is fair, no one needs to bring a kanna to do any boss, and it gives kanna's a unique party ability that isnt just reserved for "kishin mule" and allows kanna mains to be helpful when in partys, I thought this is what a lot of people wanted in their partyplay, or maybe people only cared about EXP.

    to me this is about as fair as someone having a kanna mule for kishin and or a HS mule or someone having link skills vs someone that doesnt (like a new player).

    And I'm someone who trains a lvl 200+ characters without a kanna mule and most times without a kanna friend on the map.

    All I see here are people whining about a party buff that won't benefit their chosen class, but I bet if it gave both att and Matt boosts, there wouldnt be a damn thing said about it in protest. Get over it I say.

    Honestly...people bring my Kanna bosses because I can buff the mages (usually the party is more warriors though) but ya know...I still gotta do stuff. Also...the ratio of mages to...every other class that doesn't use MATT...yeah. It's not overpowered. Now if the game were 4/5th mages...different story.
  • RisingRainRisingRain
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    edited June 2017
    Catooolooo wrote: »
    think this is fair, no one needs to bring a kanna to do any boss, and it gives kanna's a unique party ability that isnt just reserved for "kishin mule" and allows kanna mains to be helpful when in partys, I thought this is what a lot of people wanted in their partyplay, or maybe people only cared about EXP.

    to me this is about as fair as someone having a kanna mule for kishin and or a HS mule or someone having link skills vs someone that doesnt (like a new player).

    And I'm someone who trains my lvl 200+ characters without a kanna mule and most times without a kanna friend on the map.

    All I see here are people whining about a party buff that won't benefit their chosen class, but I bet if it gave both att and Matt boosts, there wouldnt be a damn thing said about it in protest. Get over it I say.

    That's the thing. It doesn't give both ATT and MATT boosts. It only gives MATT classes a massive advantage.
    There are only 8 MATT classes including Kanna when there are 40+ classes in the game. There's no reason to give such an advantage to less than 20% of the classes of the game and leave the other 80% out to rot.

    And Kanna has plenty of party buffs, like their new Beyond skill.
  • CatoooloooCatooolooo
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    edited June 2017
    JushiroNet wrote: »
    It's supposed to be a self buff for the kanna. What are you doing nexon.
    it was changed long before the V update to be a party buff, it was actually changed when hayato first got his sword energy system. I assume OP is/ was from EMS so for them it just happened over the V update.
    RisingRain wrote: »
    Catooolooo wrote: »
    think this is fair, no one needs to bring a kanna to do any boss, and it gives kanna's a unique party ability that isnt just reserved for "kishin mule" and allows kanna mains to be helpful when in partys, I thought this is what a lot of people wanted in their partyplay, or maybe people only cared about EXP.

    to me this is about as fair as someone having a kanna mule for kishin and or a HS mule or someone having link skills vs someone that doesnt (like a new player).

    And I'm someone who trains my lvl 200+ characters without a kanna mule and most times without a kanna friend on the map.

    All I see here are people whining about a party buff that won't benefit their chosen class, but I bet if it gave both att and Matt boosts, there wouldnt be a damn thing said about it in protest. Get over it I say.

    That's the thing. It doesn't give both ATT and MATT boosts. It only gives MATT classes a massive advantage.
    There are only 8 MATT classes including Kanna when there are 40+ classes in the game. There's no reason to give such an advantage to less than 20% of the classes of the game and leave the other 80% out to rot.
    all i see is "Wahh wahh this wont benefit me so it's unfair"
    that don't make it unfair,and as i said earlier "I bet if it gave both att and Matt boosts, there wouldnt be a damn thing said about it in protest." the fact that it gives mages exclusively a buff doen't make it a broken or unfair skill.

    the people complaining are just upset they can't utilize the skill either, which is just so immature and sad how this community want to tear down something that's not broken just because it won't give a benefit to their chosen class.

    It's one of the reasons I'm glad nexon do not take direction from player input, too many have their own agenda.
    Sherri
  • RisingRainRisingRain
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    edited June 2017
    Catooolooo wrote: »
    all i see is "Wahh wahh this wont benefit me so it's unfair"
    that don't make it unfair,and as i said earlier "I bet if it gave both att and Matt boosts, there wouldnt be a damn thing said about it in protest." the fact that it gives mages exclusively a buff doen't make it a broken or unfair skill.

    the people complaining are just upset they can't utilize the skill either, which is just so immature and sad how this community want to tear down something that's not broken just because it won't give a benefit to their chosen class.

    It's one of the reasons I'm glad nexon do not take direction from player input, too many have their own agenda.

    You still haven't explained why it's not broken. A buff that can triple the damage of a very small minority of classes is broken for the other classes that are balanced in KMS with that small minority around Haku not existing.

    You don't know the first thing about game balance. If a skill makes 8 out of 40 classes undeniably stronger than the others, then it is bad for the game. There is no reason to play a weapon attack class when a Mage class with Haku can outdamage you 2-3x with the same amount of funding. You say that players have no input, but Hayato got nerfed with enough complaining about Shimada Heart. If we keep complaining, Haku might get nerfed as well :)

    Advocating for your own self-interest isn't a bad thing, especially with how Nexon is as a company.
  • CatoooloooCatooolooo
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    edited June 2017
    RisingRain wrote: »
    Catooolooo wrote: »
    all i see is "Wahh wahh this wont benefit me so it's unfair"
    that don't make it unfair,and as i said earlier "I bet if it gave both att and Matt boosts, there wouldnt be a damn thing said about it in protest." the fact that it gives mages exclusively a buff doen't make it a broken or unfair skill.

    the people complaining are just upset they can't utilize the skill either, which is just so immature and sad how this community want to tear down something that's not broken just because it won't give a benefit to their chosen class.

    It's one of the reasons I'm glad nexon do not take direction from player input, too many have their own agenda.

    You still haven't explained why it's not broken. A buff that can triple the damage of a very small minority of classes is broken for the other classes that are balanced in KMS with that small minority around Haku not existing.

    You don't know the first thing about game balance. If a skill makes 8 out of 40 classes undeniably stronger than the others, then it is bad for the game. There is no reason to play a weapon attack class when a Mage class with Haku can outdamage you 2-3x with the same amount of funding. You say that players have no input, but Hayato got nerfed with enough complaining about Shimada Heart. If we keep complaining, Haku might get nerfed as well :)

    Advocating for your own self-interest isn't a bad thing, especially with how Nexon is as a company.
    actually it's you who hasn't explained how it's unbalanced as, for most players the boost isnt huge unless insanely funded, they could cap it somwhere but the boost most mages will get is not going to be that crazy

    sure advocating for your own interest isnt a bad thing but just being upset because something isnt beneficial for you, that you don't even need is some other kind of disgusting.

    all people have said is that "It's broken when extremely funded" but so are a lot of things, instead of nerfing it they can put a cap on it, especially as it's only broken when extremely funded.

    that "Hayato nerf" literally was a fix, it is explained in the CMS bug fix notes that it was never intended to go beyond the old def cap and so they fixed it, also it's not broken to get a decent buff Matt buff from a magic class, it is however broken to get 90% of your damage from a stat that is not your main stat, and was something that should have been anticipated and taken care of back when V came out. The only reason people are salty about that was because they expected it to take a lot longer for a fix/change/update to come because it's a non-KMS class and tbh if this was a KMS class this would have been fixed 6 months ago. The change had nothing to do with the community wanting it nerfed. had they taken advice from the community, the skills would have been hit hard because I have seen several threads about how nerfing the skills would "even them out" which were all terrible ideas, and even with the cap hayato's still are slightly stronger overall with their 5th job skills, all the cap did was reign them in a little.

    The op is making a complaint with assumptions of
    1. Having an arcane shade equip (how many of those do you see just laying around or sitting in shops?)
    2. that the kanna and other partymembers have 60%Matt which screams insanely funded by having either perfect %matt lines on primary and secondary equips or a combination of 60%matt from primary, secondary and emblem all together which isnt easy to get.
    3. is just whinging about how "physical attacks can't compere" to this ridiculous scenario that would be very uncommon for some of the reasons you yourself pointed out (80% of the playerbase don't play mages)

    as I said before, All i see are people upset because they can't make use of the boosts from this "broken" skill and just see people talking about how "it's unfair that some mage can bring an 'afk' kanna mule to beat a boss faster" which screams of people just being jealous and upset especially when the scenario they think is "afk kanna mule" and not real players that main kanna helping others and shows that if it effected both att and matt no one would be like "OMG that's broken and so unfair that all someone needs to do is bring a afk kanna to boost their attack so brokenly to beat a boss faster"

  • RisingRainRisingRain
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    edited June 2017
    Catooolooo wrote: »
    actually it's you who hasn't explained how it's unbalanced as, for most players the boost isnt huge unless insanely funded, they could cap it somwhere but the boost most mages will get is not going to be that crazy

    sure advocating four your own interest isnt a bad thing but just being upset because something isnt beneficial for you, that you don't even need is some other kind of disgusting.

    all people have said is that "It's broken when extremely funded" but so are a lot of things, instead of nerfing it they can put a cap on it, especially as it's only broken when extremely funded.

    that "Hayato nerf" literally was a fix, it is explained in the CMS bug fix notes that it was never intended to go beyond the old def cap and so they fixed it, also it's not broken to get a decent buff Matt buff from a magic class, it is however broken to get 90% of your damage from a stat that is not your main stat, and was something that should have been anticipated and taken care of back when V came out. The only reason people are salty about that was because they expected it to take a lot longer for a fix/change/update to come because it's a non-KMS class and tbh if this was a KMS class this would have been fixed 6 months ago. The change had nothing to do with the community wanting it nerfed. had they taken advice from the community, the skills would have been hit hard because I have seen several threads about how nerfing the skills would "even them out"

    The boost is huge. The original poster already explained how the scaling off the Haku fan works, so I don't need to repeat it.
    Most classes have at most ~100% MATT or so from their potentials (less in Reboot). Getting an extra 166% MATT just from star forcing an Arcane Fan (or similar amounts from an Absolabs) is more than double the MATT% that they had before, so the multiplier I mentioned is not an exaggeration. In non-Reboot servers where you can scroll/trace the fan the Arcane Fan will be even more broken. A perfectly scrolled Arcane Fan will probably be 600+ MATT, which means Haku will give 300%+ MATT as a buff. A buff, with no CD, giving more than 2-3x the amount of %MATT that a perfectly geared Mage will have from all of his gear, is broken. A lower funded Mage with weaker gear will get 4-6x the amount of %MATT that they currently have from all of their gear

    You seem to think I'm for complete removal of the buff. No, what should happen is a change in how it works. On the extreme end they could make it for Kanna only. On the other end they could cap it, or cap it + make it useful for the entire party like with WH's Call of the Wild giving 10% MATT% and ATT%. The point of this thread is to discuss how to tweak the buff so it's more fair. I'm personally in favor of capping + making it applicable to anyone in the party because of how much of a power gap there is between KMS and GMS, but if that doesn't happen I'm in favor of complete removal because it's gone on for so long.

    Also, with the Haku buff Kanna is pretty much by far the best support class. Bishop Benediction is a bit better than Kanna's new Spirit Stone skill, but not by that much. And who would pick Bishop or Paladin that have short duration/long CD's on their really strong 5th job party skills when Kanna's Haku buff completely outclasses both and has no CD.
  • xOtakuxOtaku
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    edited June 2017
    Catooolooo wrote: »
    think this is fair, no one needs to bring a kanna to do any boss, and it gives kanna's a unique party ability that isnt just reserved for "kishin mule" and allows kanna mains to be helpful when in partys, I thought this is what a lot of people wanted in their partyplay, or maybe people only cared about EXP.

    to me this is about as fair as someone having a kanna mule for kishin and or a HS mule or someone having link skills vs someone that doesnt (like a new player).

    And I'm someone who trains my lvl 200+ characters without a kanna mule and most times without a kanna friend on the map.

    All I see here are people whining about a party buff that won't benefit their chosen class, but I bet if it gave both att and Matt boosts, there wouldnt be a damn thing said about it in protest. Get over it I say.


    what do you mean no one needs to bring a kanna to do any boss? I've been bossing with a full party of non-mages and 1 kanna for atleast the past 3 months.
    1. their bind is 20sec ffs...
    2.they have a skill that boost party boss damage quite a bit
    3.They have a final damage% party buff (2nd 5th job skill)
    4.their damage may not be the highest but they can still do damage. Not only that, their support makes up for their low damage. At that point, why not just say no one needs to bring a class mid-tier or lower to bossing

    I honestly don't care much about it having att% or not because 150%+ atk or matk from just a "party buff" that has no cooldown is broken especially with these absolab weapon events. You can look up tower of oz att/matt% rings' cooldown and duration along with the restrictions then compare it with haku blessing, these rings on lv4 is hard to get while haku is already much better with just a fafnir fan that's only 12star or so. I would just suggest to keep haku blessings to kanna only instead of a party buff because kanna need it for their damage and other classes getting it is just unneccesary. This buff just makes oz rings look like a joke and I don't know how people see this as perfectly fine, looks more like a bug to me.
  • StargethStargeth
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    edited June 2017
    @Catooolooo The thread poster has given you reasons why it's OP already... if you want more, take a look at the Lucid clears in Reboot. A vast majority of them involve a kanna which, as the thread poster has mentioned, multiplies their damage/ranges by ~2x-3x.

    No other buff in the entire game compares to something like this. Even buffs from stuff like WH's only give physical damage classes a solid 20% final damage boost at best. The benefit from Sharp Eyes can vary on your current crit rate and damage, but you'd be looking at probably around 20% more final damage overall. Mage classes would ALSO benefit from Sharp Eyes. Speed infusion can give about 20-30% more damage to physical classes due to attack speed increases (but note that this buff ALSO benefits some mage classes). Cross surge, which is a Dark Knight SELF BUFF, increases the damage of a Dark Knight by ~2x. So tell me how a mage-class-exclusive buff that raises the whole party's damage by 2-3x ISN'T broken?

    As xOtaku put it, it looks more like a bug than a feature.