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Changes to Drop Rate Formula Confirmation

Comments

  • RennnRennn
    Reactions: 1,335
    Posts: 45
    Member, Private Tester
    edited August 2017
    Oh, just imagine my shock.

    I've been seeing/saying this all along- Nexon HATES Reboot and regrets ever putting it in. Just another nail in the coffin...

    Except most Rebooters (me included) I know wouldn't even think about going into the normal servers so there goes NX and playtime from Reboot players. Not like it matters anyway for this dying game.

    Lilyflower
  • kennyabsillikennyabsilli
    Reactions: 715
    Posts: 18
    Member, Private Tester
    edited August 2017
    PirateIzzy wrote: »
    I have no drop rate and unmaxed nodes/arcane force, and it isnt a big deal for me. Just makes things more challenging. quit crying over it.

    The bootlicker has returned.

    You have an incredibly warped perception on what makes something challenging; hint: more time consuming != more challenging. This isn't the first time you'd tried to make that point. Fact is, this is objectively worse because the Nodestone drop rate buff wasn't significant enough for KMS players (who have tested this). If anything, it affects unfunded players even more due to botters being unaffected by it, who will then take advantage of the inflated prices of Nodestones. Also, keep in mind that Nodestones aren't the only thing that people use drop rate gear for; Arcane Symbols, Arcane River Droplets (especially in Reboot), and cubes from bosses unrelated to bosses. The fact that you're one of the few people who actually tries to defend this change is laughable at best, since you're only defending it because you personally aren't affected by it.
    Theyre seeing a bigger picture. They usually do this stuff when they have plans for something that mitigates the changes, be it now or later on, theyll implement something.

    for example when they removed the older character skills like avenger, arrow rain etc they probably already had the blue prints for 5th job which resemble those skills. and that was years before the V update that they changed or removed the skills.

    When they removed meso up from assassin skill set, it was perhaps do the inception of reboot.

    Meso Up's removal and Reboot were years apart, I highly doubt that it had anything to do with Reboot.
    And comparing the removal of skills to this is comparing apples to asparagus, since those didn't heavily impact the game's economy to this extent. What bigger picture could they possibly be looking at here? And if so, why wouldn't they implement it sooner to counteract how drastic of a change this is? Those skill changes were at least replaced with something else that worked in the classes' favors. This type of change isn't something you just drop on the players without something to balance it.

    Like we argued about in the Weapon Cancel thread, you said that there should be some kind of change to replace/counteract the removal of Weapon Cancel. So why doesn't that logic apply here?

    If there is a bigger picture, it is most certainly something you cant see. Youre mind is clouded by what you want. Not what should be.
    I just mentioned they usually place counter measures when they make these types of changes whether it be now or in the future.

    calling me a "bootlicker" isnt helping your case, when you throw around insults and then throw around the words logic and objectively. it makes your sentiments known not your reasoning. throwing a tantrum here isnt going to changes things, they arent your parents and they wont surrender to those tactics. Just brace yourselves for the changes, and adapt to the new style of play. The economy is already messed up so no point in bringing the economy into it.

    cant call yourself a hardcore mapler if youre taking this as a big hit to your playstyle. a hardcore mapler would accept the changes and continue, make the best of it. Find a way to thrive.

    ultimately, this is about the money you realize you wasted because of these changes. not just you but anyone that handed over thousands of dollars for the drop gear.

    A lot of the players here are way more in touch with the game than any of the developers. Many of us have done the research and over 90% of us conclude that the only beneficiary of these nerfs is botters. The economy is integral to this game in main servers (reboot has its own issues that many have explained above). The change isn't about being more hardcore, it penalizes legitimate players who invested time, energy, economic knowledge and sometimes money to be able to farm endgame drops effectively which they sell at fair and low prices to other legitimate players who don't have this gear. Even with the increase in base drop the players with no drop gear would take an incalculably long time to max out their boost and skill nodes (we know this from KMS research) without buying the nodes from somewhere. This brings us back to the economy: right now players with no drop gear can buy nodes at 30m a piece from legitimate farmers (economically the only barrier to entry here is drop gear so this is a highly competitive market if you've taken economics), post nerf the main source for nodes will be botters (the barrier to entry here is illegal programs and hundreds of accounts which is only achieved by career hackers so is a highly uncompetitive market); botters can control these prices to their benefit as there is no one to challenge them anymore.

    So unless you use illegal programs to play this game there's no upside to this change.
    Bahamut_X
  • PetalmagicPetalmagic
    Reactions: 7,660
    Posts: 1,572
    Member
    edited August 2017
    Well...I was on the fence about quitting...come the drop rate changes...-jumps over fence into freedom- Unfortunately this is a change I just can't even...this is gonna hurt Reboot sooo much, and I will not play a Normal server due to the fact I cant dish out the cash like I was as a foolish youth. This is sad. I really just have...like no reason to play the game anymore these days...is that the only way to get a message across...to quit? Nexon...don't shoot yourself in the foot here...please. I really enjoyed this game in the 6+ years I've played (I calculated that I missed BB by like a few months or so) and I don't wanna see it turn into a hell hole...but this one just...its a dang slap in the face. Maybe my Mabinogi friend will be abel to convince me to rejoin.
    RollsLolaBunnyKingofFurrieslormarkieTacoLOL
  • PirateIzzyPirateIzzy
    Reactions: 5,265
    Posts: 862
    Member
    edited August 2017
    If there is a bigger picture, it is most certainly something you cant see. Youre mind is clouded by what you want. Not what should be.
    I just mentioned they usually place counter measures when they make these types of changes whether it be now or in the future.

    Then tell me, what do you have in mind for what they could possibly be doing to counter this?

    I'll tell you what could actually be beneficial to the players (and no, I'm not only talking about myself): They could have increased the droprate of more than just Nodestones as a temporary measure (like Symbols, Arcane Droplets, etc) because it's obvious how much of an impact this would have, and how shortsighted it would be. They could have also added dailies to get Arcane Droplets, especially since Reboot players need it the most. They could also release Arcane River dailies with the new areas instead of waiting 6 months after release (Lachelein, Arcana, and most likely Moras). However, KMS had Nodestones in mind when they changed the drop rate formula, since that was what they decided to "improve" the drop rate of.

    The only other huge thing they could be doing is overhauling the V Matrix's functionality entirely (since like I said, they were primarily considering Nodestones), which I doubt they're planning any time soon.

    And they did change Nodestones in KMS to give skills for your class only, but keep in mind how many of those skills still exist, and how many will actually be useful to you past a certain point, especially if you maxed your major skills.
    calling me a "bootlicker" isnt helping your case, when you throw around insults and then throw around the words logic and objectively. it makes your sentiments known not your reasoning. throwing a tantrum here isnt going to changes things, they arent your parents and they wont surrender to those tactics. Just brace yourselves for the changes, and adapt to the new style of play. The economy is already messed up so no point in bringing the economy into it.

    I called you that because I call things as I see it. There's room for debate and there's room for insults, and you're not above doing that either. You try to present yourself as rational, objective, and the bigger man, yet it's okay for you to act condescending and tell people to "quit crying over it" and to stop "throwing tantrums"? The lack of self-awareness is amazing. And I already presented my arguments toward your point, which you handwaved because it's inconvenient for you.

    Yes, the economy is already messed up. Does that mean we should try to actively, and knowingly, make it worse? Let's see how well that works out in real life.
    cant call yourself a hardcore mapler if youre taking this as a big hit to your playstyle. a hardcore mapler would accept the changes and continue, make the best of it. Find a way to thrive.

    ultimately, this is about the money you realize you wasted because of these changes. not just you but anyone that handed over thousands of dollars for the drop gear.

    Not that I really care about calling myself a "hardcore mapler", and not sure what that has anything to do with it, but okay? Even hardcore maplers are allowed to criticize Nexon's decisions, unless they're not really Scotsmen.
    And actually, it's not about me, because of 2 reasons:
    1. I actually haven't spent real money on this game in years (last time I did was pre Big Bang), and I have almost no drop rate boosts.
    2. I can actually see things from the perspective of other people, instead of just thinking "It doesn't affect me so you guys just deal with it". Like others have pointed out, it affects Reboot players the most, especially those who try to collect Arcane Droplets for the level 200 weapon. Using your words, it's about seeing the "bigger picture" with the drop rate for many of these items, and how it affects the economy. We already have botters controlling many aspects of our economy, we don't need another category there.

    People are pissed about more than just the fact that they spent money on their gear (if they actually did, since Reboot players don't spend real money on cubes), but rather how it will affect other aspects.
    thats a nice paragraph and all throwing in Economics 101, but theyre just making this more of a grind game, until they implement the system that mitigates the draw back of the drop rate nerf.

    That is, if they actually have something in mind at this moment, and they didn't just do it on the spot because they wanted to limit progression.
    LilyflowerBahamut_X
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
    Reactions: 8,980
    Posts: 2,669
    Member
    edited August 2017
    PirateIzzy wrote: »
    I have no drop rate and unmaxed nodes/arcane force, and it isnt a big deal for me. Just makes things more challenging. quit crying over it.

    The bootlicker has returned.

    You have an incredibly warped perception on what makes something challenging; hint: more time consuming != more challenging. This isn't the first time you'd tried to make that point. Fact is, this is objectively worse because the Nodestone drop rate buff wasn't significant enough for KMS players (who have tested this). If anything, it affects unfunded players even more due to botters being unaffected by it, who will then take advantage of the inflated prices of Nodestones. Also, keep in mind that Nodestones aren't the only thing that people use drop rate gear for; Arcane Symbols, Arcane River Droplets (especially in Reboot), and cubes from bosses unrelated to bosses. The fact that you're one of the few people who actually tries to defend this change is laughable at best, since you're only defending it because you personally aren't affected by it.
    Theyre seeing a bigger picture. They usually do this stuff when they have plans for something that mitigates the changes, be it now or later on, theyll implement something.

    for example when they removed the older character skills like avenger, arrow rain etc they probably already had the blue prints for 5th job which resemble those skills. and that was years before the V update that they changed or removed the skills.

    When they removed meso up from assassin skill set, it was perhaps do the inception of reboot.

    Meso Up's removal and Reboot were years apart, I highly doubt that it had anything to do with Reboot.
    And comparing the removal of skills to this is comparing apples to asparagus, since those didn't heavily impact the game's economy to this extent. What bigger picture could they possibly be looking at here? And if so, why wouldn't they implement it sooner to counteract how drastic of a change this is? Those skill changes were at least replaced with something else that worked in the classes' favors. This type of change isn't something you just drop on the players without something to balance it.

    Like we argued about in the Weapon Cancel thread, you said that there should be some kind of change to replace/counteract the removal of Weapon Cancel. So why doesn't that logic apply here?

    If there is a bigger picture, it is most certainly something you cant see. Youre mind is clouded by what you want. Not what should be.
    I just mentioned they usually place counter measures when they make these types of changes whether it be now or in the future.

    calling me a "bootlicker" isnt helping your case, when you throw around insults and then throw around the words logic and objectively. it makes your sentiments known not your reasoning. throwing a tantrum here isnt going to changes things, they arent your parents and they wont surrender to those tactics. Just brace yourselves for the changes, and adapt to the new style of play. The economy is already messed up so no point in bringing the economy into it.

    cant call yourself a hardcore mapler if youre taking this as a big hit to your playstyle. a hardcore mapler would accept the changes and continue, make the best of it. Find a way to thrive.

    ultimately, this is about the money you realize you wasted because of these changes. not just you but anyone that handed over thousands of dollars for the drop gear.

    A lot of the players here are way more in touch with the game than any of the developers. Many of us have done the research and over 90% of us conclude that the only beneficiary of these nerfs is botters. The economy is integral to this game in main servers (reboot has its own issues that many have explained above). The change isn't about being more hardcore, it penalizes legitimate players who invested time, energy, economic knowledge and sometimes money to be able to farm endgame drops effectively which they sell at fair and low prices to other legitimate players who don't have this gear. Even with the increase in base drop the players with no drop gear would take an incalculably long time to max out their boost and skill nodes (we know this from KMS research) without buying the nodes from somewhere. This brings us back to the economy: right now players with no drop gear can buy nodes at 30m a piece from legitimate farmers (economically the only barrier to entry here is drop gear so this is a highly competitive market if you've taken economics), post nerf the main source for nodes will be botters (the barrier to entry here is illegal programs and hundreds of accounts which is only achieved by career hackers so is a highly uncompetitive market); botters can control these prices to their benefit as there is no one to challenge them anymore.

    So unless you use illegal programs to play this game there's no upside to this change.

    thats a nice paragraph and all throwing in Economics 101, but theyre just making this more of a grind game, until they implement the system that mitigates the draw back of the drop rate nerf.
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
    Reactions: 8,980
    Posts: 2,669
    Member
    edited August 2017
    PirateIzzy wrote: »
    If there is a bigger picture, it is most certainly something you cant see. Youre mind is clouded by what you want. Not what should be.
    I just mentioned they usually place counter measures when they make these types of changes whether it be now or in the future.

    Then tell me, what do you have in mind for what they could possibly be doing to counter this?

    I'll tell you what could actually be beneficial to the players (and no, I'm not only talking about myself): They could have increased the droprate of more than just Nodestones as a temporary measure (like Symbols, Arcane Droplets, etc) because it's obvious how much of an impact this would have, and how shortsighted it would be. They could have also added dailies to get Arcane Droplets, especially since Reboot players need it the most. They could also release Arcane River dailies with the new areas instead of waiting 6 months after release (Lachelein, Arcana, and most likely Moras). However, KMS had Nodestones in mind when they changed the drop rate formula, since that was what they decided to "improve" the drop rate of.

    The only other huge thing they could be doing is overhauling the V Matrix's functionality entirely (since like I said, they were primarily considering Nodestones), which I doubt they're planning any time soon.

    And they did change Nodestones in KMS to give skills for your class only, but keep in mind how many of those skills still exist, and how many will actually be useful to you past a certain point, especially if you maxed your major skills.
    calling me a "bootlicker" isnt helping your case, when you throw around insults and then throw around the words logic and objectively. it makes your sentiments known not your reasoning. throwing a tantrum here isnt going to changes things, they arent your parents and they wont surrender to those tactics. Just brace yourselves for the changes, and adapt to the new style of play. The economy is already messed up so no point in bringing the economy into it.

    I called you that because I call things as I see it. There's room for debate and there's room for insults, and you're not above doing that either. You try to present yourself as rational, objective, and the bigger man, yet it's okay for you to act condescending and tell people to "quit crying over it" and to stop "throwing tantrums"? The lack of self-awareness is amazing. And I already presented my arguments toward your point, which you handwaved because it's inconvenient for you.

    Yes, the economy is already messed up. Does that mean we should try to actively, and knowingly, make it worse? Let's see how well that works out in real life.
    cant call yourself a hardcore mapler if youre taking this as a big hit to your playstyle. a hardcore mapler would accept the changes and continue, make the best of it. Find a way to thrive.

    ultimately, this is about the money you realize you wasted because of these changes. not just you but anyone that handed over thousands of dollars for the drop gear.

    Not that I really care about calling myself a "hardcore mapler", and not sure what that has anything to do with it, but okay? Even hardcore maplers are allowed to criticize Nexon's decisions, unless they're not really Scotsmen.
    And actually, it's not about me, because of 2 reasons:
    1. I actually haven't spent real money on this game in years (last time I did was pre Big Bang), and I have almost no drop rate boosts.
    2. I can actually see things from the perspective of other people, instead of just thinking "It doesn't affect me so you guys just deal with it". Like others have pointed out, it affects Reboot players the most, especially those who try to collect Arcane Droplets for the level 200 weapon. Using your words, it's about seeing the "bigger picture" with the drop rate for many of these items, and how it affects the economy. We already have botters controlling many aspects of our economy, we don't need another category there.

    People are pissed about more than just the fact that they spent money on their gear (if they actually did, since Reboot players don't spend real money on cubes), but rather how it will affect other aspects.
    thats a nice paragraph and all throwing in Economics 101, but theyre just making this more of a grind game, until they implement the system that mitigates the draw back of the drop rate nerf.

    That is, if they actually have something in mind at this moment, and they didn't just do it on the spot because they wanted to limit progression.

    Im not looking down at you, Im looking through you towards the bigger picture. Say what you want but theres something coming after this. Im not affiliated with nexon, they dont give me free stuff so I have no incentive to kiss their behind. Sure, this halts momentary progress but probability would tell us that this isnt how itll stay, there will be something placed to rebalance the changes. it's up to the players to adapt to the changes or to let this change beat us to our knees.
  • kennyabsillikennyabsilli
    Reactions: 715
    Posts: 18
    Member, Private Tester
    edited August 2017
    PirateIzzy wrote: »
    I have no drop rate and unmaxed nodes/arcane force, and it isnt a big deal for me. Just makes things more challenging. quit crying over it.

    The bootlicker has returned.

    You have an incredibly warped perception on what makes something challenging; hint: more time consuming != more challenging. This isn't the first time you'd tried to make that point. Fact is, this is objectively worse because the Nodestone drop rate buff wasn't significant enough for KMS players (who have tested this). If anything, it affects unfunded players even more due to botters being unaffected by it, who will then take advantage of the inflated prices of Nodestones. Also, keep in mind that Nodestones aren't the only thing that people use drop rate gear for; Arcane Symbols, Arcane River Droplets (especially in Reboot), and cubes from bosses unrelated to bosses. The fact that you're one of the few people who actually tries to defend this change is laughable at best, since you're only defending it because you personally aren't affected by it.
    Theyre seeing a bigger picture. They usually do this stuff when they have plans for something that mitigates the changes, be it now or later on, theyll implement something.

    for example when they removed the older character skills like avenger, arrow rain etc they probably already had the blue prints for 5th job which resemble those skills. and that was years before the V update that they changed or removed the skills.

    When they removed meso up from assassin skill set, it was perhaps do the inception of reboot.

    Meso Up's removal and Reboot were years apart, I highly doubt that it had anything to do with Reboot.
    And comparing the removal of skills to this is comparing apples to asparagus, since those didn't heavily impact the game's economy to this extent. What bigger picture could they possibly be looking at here? And if so, why wouldn't they implement it sooner to counteract how drastic of a change this is? Those skill changes were at least replaced with something else that worked in the classes' favors. This type of change isn't something you just drop on the players without something to balance it.

    Like we argued about in the Weapon Cancel thread, you said that there should be some kind of change to replace/counteract the removal of Weapon Cancel. So why doesn't that logic apply here?

    If there is a bigger picture, it is most certainly something you cant see. Youre mind is clouded by what you want. Not what should be.
    I just mentioned they usually place counter measures when they make these types of changes whether it be now or in the future.

    calling me a "bootlicker" isnt helping your case, when you throw around insults and then throw around the words logic and objectively. it makes your sentiments known not your reasoning. throwing a tantrum here isnt going to changes things, they arent your parents and they wont surrender to those tactics. Just brace yourselves for the changes, and adapt to the new style of play. The economy is already messed up so no point in bringing the economy into it.

    cant call yourself a hardcore mapler if youre taking this as a big hit to your playstyle. a hardcore mapler would accept the changes and continue, make the best of it. Find a way to thrive.

    ultimately, this is about the money you realize you wasted because of these changes. not just you but anyone that handed over thousands of dollars for the drop gear.

    A lot of the players here are way more in touch with the game than any of the developers. Many of us have done the research and over 90% of us conclude that the only beneficiary of these nerfs is botters. The economy is integral to this game in main servers (reboot has its own issues that many have explained above). The change isn't about being more hardcore, it penalizes legitimate players who invested time, energy, economic knowledge and sometimes money to be able to farm endgame drops effectively which they sell at fair and low prices to other legitimate players who don't have this gear. Even with the increase in base drop the players with no drop gear would take an incalculably long time to max out their boost and skill nodes (we know this from KMS research) without buying the nodes from somewhere. This brings us back to the economy: right now players with no drop gear can buy nodes at 30m a piece from legitimate farmers (economically the only barrier to entry here is drop gear so this is a highly competitive market if you've taken economics), post nerf the main source for nodes will be botters (the barrier to entry here is illegal programs and hundreds of accounts which is only achieved by career hackers so is a highly uncompetitive market); botters can control these prices to their benefit as there is no one to challenge them anymore.

    So unless you use illegal programs to play this game there's no upside to this change.

    thats a nice paragraph and all throwing in Economics 101, but theyre just making this more of a grind game, until they implement the system that mitigates the draw back of the drop rate nerf.

    You wanted logic and rationalization instead of someone calling you a bootlicker and when we give it to you, you just dismiss it out of hand??? It also doesnt increase the grind, people will just be paying more money to botters to get their nodestones, great grind there...
    PirateIzzy
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
    Reactions: 8,980
    Posts: 2,669
    Member
    edited August 2017
    PirateIzzy wrote: »
    I have no drop rate and unmaxed nodes/arcane force, and it isnt a big deal for me. Just makes things more challenging. quit crying over it.

    The bootlicker has returned.

    You have an incredibly warped perception on what makes something challenging; hint: more time consuming != more challenging. This isn't the first time you'd tried to make that point. Fact is, this is objectively worse because the Nodestone drop rate buff wasn't significant enough for KMS players (who have tested this). If anything, it affects unfunded players even more due to botters being unaffected by it, who will then take advantage of the inflated prices of Nodestones. Also, keep in mind that Nodestones aren't the only thing that people use drop rate gear for; Arcane Symbols, Arcane River Droplets (especially in Reboot), and cubes from bosses unrelated to bosses. The fact that you're one of the few people who actually tries to defend this change is laughable at best, since you're only defending it because you personally aren't affected by it.
    Theyre seeing a bigger picture. They usually do this stuff when they have plans for something that mitigates the changes, be it now or later on, theyll implement something.

    for example when they removed the older character skills like avenger, arrow rain etc they probably already had the blue prints for 5th job which resemble those skills. and that was years before the V update that they changed or removed the skills.

    When they removed meso up from assassin skill set, it was perhaps do the inception of reboot.

    Meso Up's removal and Reboot were years apart, I highly doubt that it had anything to do with Reboot.
    And comparing the removal of skills to this is comparing apples to asparagus, since those didn't heavily impact the game's economy to this extent. What bigger picture could they possibly be looking at here? And if so, why wouldn't they implement it sooner to counteract how drastic of a change this is? Those skill changes were at least replaced with something else that worked in the classes' favors. This type of change isn't something you just drop on the players without something to balance it.

    Like we argued about in the Weapon Cancel thread, you said that there should be some kind of change to replace/counteract the removal of Weapon Cancel. So why doesn't that logic apply here?

    If there is a bigger picture, it is most certainly something you cant see. Youre mind is clouded by what you want. Not what should be.
    I just mentioned they usually place counter measures when they make these types of changes whether it be now or in the future.

    calling me a "bootlicker" isnt helping your case, when you throw around insults and then throw around the words logic and objectively. it makes your sentiments known not your reasoning. throwing a tantrum here isnt going to changes things, they arent your parents and they wont surrender to those tactics. Just brace yourselves for the changes, and adapt to the new style of play. The economy is already messed up so no point in bringing the economy into it.

    cant call yourself a hardcore mapler if youre taking this as a big hit to your playstyle. a hardcore mapler would accept the changes and continue, make the best of it. Find a way to thrive.

    ultimately, this is about the money you realize you wasted because of these changes. not just you but anyone that handed over thousands of dollars for the drop gear.

    A lot of the players here are way more in touch with the game than any of the developers. Many of us have done the research and over 90% of us conclude that the only beneficiary of these nerfs is botters. The economy is integral to this game in main servers (reboot has its own issues that many have explained above). The change isn't about being more hardcore, it penalizes legitimate players who invested time, energy, economic knowledge and sometimes money to be able to farm endgame drops effectively which they sell at fair and low prices to other legitimate players who don't have this gear. Even with the increase in base drop the players with no drop gear would take an incalculably long time to max out their boost and skill nodes (we know this from KMS research) without buying the nodes from somewhere. This brings us back to the economy: right now players with no drop gear can buy nodes at 30m a piece from legitimate farmers (economically the only barrier to entry here is drop gear so this is a highly competitive market if you've taken economics), post nerf the main source for nodes will be botters (the barrier to entry here is illegal programs and hundreds of accounts which is only achieved by career hackers so is a highly uncompetitive market); botters can control these prices to their benefit as there is no one to challenge them anymore.

    So unless you use illegal programs to play this game there's no upside to this change.

    thats a nice paragraph and all throwing in Economics 101, but theyre just making this more of a grind game, until they implement the system that mitigates the draw back of the drop rate nerf.

    You wanted logic and rationalization instead of someone calling you a bootlicker and when we give it to you, you just dismiss it out of hand??? It also doesnt increase the grind, people will just be paying more money to botters to get their nodestones, great grind there...

    "people will be paying more to botter" that will be their decision to do so, Nexon will never direct the player base to do this. you call what you posted logic and rationalization but your end result was to say "people will resort to paying more to botters and hackers" that just implies players are lazy.
  • kennyabsillikennyabsilli
    Reactions: 715
    Posts: 18
    Member, Private Tester
    edited August 2017
    PirateIzzy wrote: »
    I have no drop rate and unmaxed nodes/arcane force, and it isnt a big deal for me. Just makes things more challenging. quit crying over it.

    The bootlicker has returned.

    You have an incredibly warped perception on what makes something challenging; hint: more time consuming != more challenging. This isn't the first time you'd tried to make that point. Fact is, this is objectively worse because the Nodestone drop rate buff wasn't significant enough for KMS players (who have tested this). If anything, it affects unfunded players even more due to botters being unaffected by it, who will then take advantage of the inflated prices of Nodestones. Also, keep in mind that Nodestones aren't the only thing that people use drop rate gear for; Arcane Symbols, Arcane River Droplets (especially in Reboot), and cubes from bosses unrelated to bosses. The fact that you're one of the few people who actually tries to defend this change is laughable at best, since you're only defending it because you personally aren't affected by it.
    Theyre seeing a bigger picture. They usually do this stuff when they have plans for something that mitigates the changes, be it now or later on, theyll implement something.

    for example when they removed the older character skills like avenger, arrow rain etc they probably already had the blue prints for 5th job which resemble those skills. and that was years before the V update that they changed or removed the skills.

    When they removed meso up from assassin skill set, it was perhaps do the inception of reboot.

    Meso Up's removal and Reboot were years apart, I highly doubt that it had anything to do with Reboot.
    And comparing the removal of skills to this is comparing apples to asparagus, since those didn't heavily impact the game's economy to this extent. What bigger picture could they possibly be looking at here? And if so, why wouldn't they implement it sooner to counteract how drastic of a change this is? Those skill changes were at least replaced with something else that worked in the classes' favors. This type of change isn't something you just drop on the players without something to balance it.

    Like we argued about in the Weapon Cancel thread, you said that there should be some kind of change to replace/counteract the removal of Weapon Cancel. So why doesn't that logic apply here?

    If there is a bigger picture, it is most certainly something you cant see. Youre mind is clouded by what you want. Not what should be.
    I just mentioned they usually place counter measures when they make these types of changes whether it be now or in the future.

    calling me a "bootlicker" isnt helping your case, when you throw around insults and then throw around the words logic and objectively. it makes your sentiments known not your reasoning. throwing a tantrum here isnt going to changes things, they arent your parents and they wont surrender to those tactics. Just brace yourselves for the changes, and adapt to the new style of play. The economy is already messed up so no point in bringing the economy into it.

    cant call yourself a hardcore mapler if youre taking this as a big hit to your playstyle. a hardcore mapler would accept the changes and continue, make the best of it. Find a way to thrive.

    ultimately, this is about the money you realize you wasted because of these changes. not just you but anyone that handed over thousands of dollars for the drop gear.

    A lot of the players here are way more in touch with the game than any of the developers. Many of us have done the research and over 90% of us conclude that the only beneficiary of these nerfs is botters. The economy is integral to this game in main servers (reboot has its own issues that many have explained above). The change isn't about being more hardcore, it penalizes legitimate players who invested time, energy, economic knowledge and sometimes money to be able to farm endgame drops effectively which they sell at fair and low prices to other legitimate players who don't have this gear. Even with the increase in base drop the players with no drop gear would take an incalculably long time to max out their boost and skill nodes (we know this from KMS research) without buying the nodes from somewhere. This brings us back to the economy: right now players with no drop gear can buy nodes at 30m a piece from legitimate farmers (economically the only barrier to entry here is drop gear so this is a highly competitive market if you've taken economics), post nerf the main source for nodes will be botters (the barrier to entry here is illegal programs and hundreds of accounts which is only achieved by career hackers so is a highly uncompetitive market); botters can control these prices to their benefit as there is no one to challenge them anymore.

    So unless you use illegal programs to play this game there's no upside to this change.

    thats a nice paragraph and all throwing in Economics 101, but theyre just making this more of a grind game, until they implement the system that mitigates the draw back of the drop rate nerf.

    You wanted logic and rationalization instead of someone calling you a bootlicker and when we give it to you, you just dismiss it out of hand??? It also doesnt increase the grind, people will just be paying more money to botters to get their nodestones, great grind there...

    "people will be paying more to botter" that will be their decision to do so, Nexon will never direct the player base to do this. you call what you posted logic and rationalization but your end result was to say "people will resort to paying more to botters and hackers" that just implies players are lazy.

    Its not that the players are lazy, it will be completely infeasable to reach any sort of endgame without buying from botters, so Nexon may not have directed players to buy from botters, but they sure aren't leaving any othere avenues open, I've given you plenty of logic as to why people will resort to buying from botters and hackers so maybe you should actually read what people say instead of taking the last line and saying theres no basis to it. Or, if you really think no one has an analytical enough mind to compete with you, the perhaps you can do your own analysis based on the information we're given my Nexon and the players in other regions you have tested this change and actually provide some insight as to how this would benefit anyone other than those who use illegal programs.
  • RollsRolls
    Reactions: 3,220
    Posts: 177
    Member
    edited August 2017
    Im not looking down at you, Im looking through you towards the bigger picture. Say what you want but theres something coming after this. Im not affiliated with nexon, they dont give me free stuff so I have no incentive to kiss their behind. Sure, this halts momentary progress but probability would tell us that this isnt how itll stay, there will be something placed to rebalance the changes. it's up to the players to adapt to the changes or to let this change beat us to our knees.

    You sure as hell are looking down on everyone. It's undeniable at this point. You've been doing that. Whether or not you have anything to gain from defending every horrendous action Nexon takes, you sure do seem to think your thinking is superior to everyone else's. You think everyone but you is blinded to reality and that it's your job to educate them. You think you have some kind of impenetrable moral high ground. You think everyone else's arguments are meaningless and baseless while you do nothing but dismiss them. And when you realise that no one agrees with you, you act like you're the victim of silencing.

    You're no better than what you think the community is if you're going to treat them like trash just to make yourself feel big.

    Why don't we half all exp rates and see how you respond? You'd probably defend that just as much. You'd say something like "This is just more of a challenge. You're all overreacting."
    Then let's remove potentials and nebulites. "guys quit crying so much, can't you handle a challenge?"

    Maybe if you'd get off your damn high horse for once and throw away your belief that the community is some unruly child that complains that they don't always get what they want, you could have a more desirable conversation on a subject. But until then, that's not happening. Right now, you're only making yourself look more and more like some arrogant elitist looking to start an argument. Take your superiority complex elsewhere. You're not making anyone want to agree with you by treating them like ignorant scum.
    LilyflowerPirateIzzy
  • PeepPeep
    Reactions: 3,950
    Posts: 355
    Member
    edited August 2017
    DarkPassenger you are delusional if you think something is coming. If you keep up with Korean patches you'll see nothing is coming that fixes or changes this. In fact it only gets worse if you take a look at the current KMST patch. There some more disgusting changes potentially coming. As I've said already, despite so much negative feedback (almost all of it was negative even in Korea) they still decided to push this change through and they will most likely push the next horrible changes through also which is also getting a huge amount of negative feedback currently.

    The biggest problem here is feedback isn't really being taken into account anymore. There's no good reason for this change and it doesn't help anyone. Not even people without drop gear. This version of the game can't afford crap like this to happen. It's not completely dying yet but it is stagnating. A handful of people are probably going to quit over this change and you can expect even more to quit if the new KMST patch makes it through with no changes. Changes like these aren't healthy for the game.
    Lilyflower
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
    Reactions: 8,980
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    Member
    edited August 2017
    You guys are the only ones to want to point out things I'm not even thinking about. I'm just expressing my opinions as you guys are. I'm just not making a drama show out of it.

    call me any name you want. I won't do the same to you. I'll defend your right to do so.

    So your plan is to outcast anyone that opposes your same views on this change?

    I was in 6/7th grade when I started playing, I'm working on my bachelor's now. I played through all the changes. Up til now. They have my nx history, they know how much or how little I've spent throughout the years. This is no different.
  • BMW750iBMW750i
    Reactions: 485
    Posts: 15
    Member
    edited August 2017
    Let me point out some facts,

    For the people who praise this nerf well guess what? People with Drop Rate Gear still win people with no drop rate gear you will now be paying more for your nodestones and other rare drops, in the end people with no drop rate gear have lost this didn't do anything really to people with Drop Rate Gear it made it worse on people without drop rate gear.

    You will now pay more while I may have 200% drop rate people with none are now gonna be effected more then now.
    Also botters will possibly be able to make more mesos by botting for these drops you think that protection scrolls selling in GRAZED for 1bil ea is bad wait till your spending 100mil or more per nodestone and other rare drops.

    In the end botters will win because they don't have to waste their life playing for 5+ hours just to get 3 nodestones setup your bot and AFK and go have a life.

    Seek some help kid, get off these comments. You make zero sense, you sound bitter.
  • LilyflowerLilyflower
    Reactions: 4,030
    Posts: 760
    Member
    edited August 2017
    Petalmagic wrote: »
    Well...I was on the fence about quitting...come the drop rate changes...-jumps over fence into freedom- Unfortunately this is a change I just can't even...this is gonna hurt Reboot sooo much, and I will not play a Normal server due to the fact I cant dish out the cash like I was as a foolish youth. This is sad. I really just have...like no reason to play the game anymore these days...is that the only way to get a message across...to quit? Nexon...don't shoot yourself in the foot here...please. I really enjoyed this game in the 6+ years I've played (I calculated that I missed BB by like a few months or so) and I don't wanna see it turn into a hell hole...but this one just...its a dang slap in the face. Maybe my Mabinogi friend will be abel to convince me to rejoin.
    Petalmagic ur free to do whatever u want :) I know it's sad for u I too not feeling excited for this patch.
  • LolaBunnyLolaBunny
    Reactions: 2,785
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    Member, Private Tester
    edited August 2017
    You guys are the only ones to want to point out things I'm not even thinking about. I'm just expressing my opinions as you guys are. I'm just not making a drama show out of it.

    call me any name you want. I won't do the same to you. I'll defend your right to do so.

    So your plan is to outcast anyone that opposes your same views on this change?

    I was in 6/7th grade when I started playing, I'm working on my bachelor's now. I played through all the changes. Up til now. They have my nx history, they know how much or how little I've spent throughout the years. This is no different.

    I honestly don't know why you are constantly riding on Nexon on everything. You really want people to suffer don't you? It's fanboys like you that want the game to become absolutely extinct with the amount of riding. Kms is slowly dying and will certainly lose a lot more players after the boss drop nerf changes. Gms will suffer the same fate as well if Nexon America will constantly copy and paste.
  • LolaBunnyLolaBunny
    Reactions: 2,785
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    Member, Private Tester
    edited August 2017
    Spend all that money boy's getting drop rate gear lmao and now your drop rate gear doesn't help you increase the chance of getting drops. I don't see how that is fair just because a bunch of noobs can't afford drop rate gear and the ones who spent money to get drop rate gear and now their drop rate gear isn't help them anymore...

    Do us a favor and stay off the forums and stop riding on Nexon's behind. You are obviously a troll and are wasting your time commenting here.
    Lilyflower
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
    Reactions: 8,980
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    edited August 2017
    You guys are the only ones to want to point out things I'm not even thinking about. I'm just expressing my opinions as you guys are. I'm just not making a drama show out of it.

    call me any name you want. I won't do the same to you. I'll defend your right to do so.

    So your plan is to outcast anyone that opposes your same views on this change?

    I was in 6/7th grade when I started playing, I'm working on my bachelor's now. I played through all the changes. Up til now. They have my nx history, they know how much or how little I've spent throughout the years. This is no different.

    I honestly don't know why you are constantly riding on Nexon on everything. You really want people to suffer don't you? It's fanboys like you that want the game to become absolutely extinct with the amount of riding. Kms is slowly dying and will certainly lose a lot more players after the boss drop nerf changes. Gms will suffer the same fate as well if Nexon America will constantly copy and paste.

    How about instead of trusting KMS data you do your own testing when the changes are applied. To quote someone from the forums "that's what led to the whole dps chart debacle"

    Even now someone with the same amount of drop rate as another won't get the same results even if they farm for the same amount of hours.
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
    Reactions: 8,980
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    edited August 2017
    For reboot players, they already increased the drop rate for nodes slightly, with this change they're increasing it yet again. It just wasn't in patch notes the first time.

    This is starting to seems a lot like a safe space where you can't oppose the majority's feelings. End up putting words in your mouth and dismiss you as this or that. This may work in politics now a days but this isn't politics. I'm sure nexon wants to hear all types of feedback. Not just people that are against their big picture moves.
  • PeepPeep
    Reactions: 3,950
    Posts: 355
    Member
    edited August 2017
    We won't have it as bad as KMS due to the fact we have certain features they do not but it's still going to be horrible. I can think of many other ways they could have closed that "gap" that don't involve screwing over a large majority of your player base who have invested time and money and expect to see returns.

    People have been making suggestions to increase the drop rate for nodestones and symbols but did they do that? No they did not.

    (Like I said in a post earlier, while they said they buffed the drop rate because of how drop rate is calculated now it's not a buff)

    People have been asking for increased cube drop rates or to make cubes more accessible on the non reboot servers. Have they done that? No they did not.


    They could have easily done one of the two to fix this widening gap without screwing anyone. The progression is always going to be different for each player because there are people who have more time to play and people who don't. If I work 12 hours and one guy works 6 should he earn the same money for the same job? No he **** shouldn't. That's just the plain reality people need to accept especially when it comes to MMO games. If they wanted progression to be more even they shouldn't have divided it in the first place by shoving p2w in our faces.

    The butchery changes to drop rate gear that Nexon has done is just morally wrong. Rather than providing an alternative solution that doesn't screw a large majority they decide on screwing a large majority. These are people who have invested hundreds into drop gear early on. People funding this game so it stays up and they just took a massive dump on all of our faces and for what? This change doesn't help anyone. Not even the unfunded. At least with increased drop rates the unfunded don't have to suffer without having drop gear like they are now and can eventually invest in drop gear for increased rates. Seems like the more ideal solution.



    hayman
  • kennyabsillikennyabsilli
    Reactions: 715
    Posts: 18
    Member, Private Tester
    edited August 2017
    For reboot players, they already increased the drop rate for nodes slightly, with this change they're increasing it yet again. It just wasn't in patch notes the first time.

    This is starting to seems a lot like a safe space where you can't oppose the majority's feelings. End up putting words in your mouth and dismiss you as this or that. This may work in politics now a days but this isn't politics. I'm sure Nexon wants to hear all types of feedback. Not just people that are against their big picture moves.

    First of all, in reboot any casual player can obtain drop rate and meso rate gear within a month of playing so this is a nerf to reboot players across the board.

    You complain about how people are debating you but all I've seen from your responses to mine are one line non-sequiturs, and I've seen you putting words in my mouth more often than anyone has to you. If you really are working on your bachelor's degree you should know how to discuss and debate an issue. And before you start complaining about how im attacking you in a safe space let me quote another of your posts
    thats a nice paragraph and all throwing in Economics 101, but theyre just making this more of a grind game, until they implement the system that mitigates the draw back of the drop rate nerf.

    All you did here was try and make fun of the fact that I was using basic economics and then throw in the non-sequitur of the grindiness of the game. So if you can't construct a proper response to anyone I can see how people get annoyed rather quickly. As a side note, Economics 101 has many useful analysis techniques that, although simple can provide great insight that is universally understood.

    With the information we have from all our souces, if you could explain how this change has a beneficial effect on the health of the game I would be open to hearing it and discussing it, but if you respond to me as you have been I'm going to stop considering it worth my time to respond to you.
    PirateIzzy
This discussion has been closed.