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[Announcement] Regarding Kanna's Haku's Blessing

ArwooArwoo
Reactions: 14,995
Posts: 357
Administrator, Nexon
edited October 13 in Announcements
After much discussion and communication, the decision was made that we will be making the change to Haku's Blessing's magic damage buff formula. Currently, Haku's Blessing provides a significant increase to only magic attack based on the attack power of her fans. Rather than encouraging party play, Maplers felt that Haku's Blessing discouraged Kanna from partying with physical based jobs.

This feedback can be seen here:
http://forums.maplestory.nexon.net/discussion/14194/hakus-blessing-is-unresonable
http://forums.maplestory.nexon.net/discussion/4528/kanna-and-party-buffs


It was made clear to us that this buff was too powerful and making it a party buff for other mage classes to abuse was for the lack of better words, broken.

When the original intention of the change to Haku's Blessing was first introduced to the community, the feedback was overall negative. It was communicated to us by our community, that what made Kanna a competitive class, was the fact that the class made already powerful mages even stronger with Haku's Blessing.

This feedback can be seen here:
http://forums.maplestory.nexon.net/discussion/comment/55865/#Comment_55865
http://forums.maplestory.nexon.net/discussion/15605/regarding-changes-to-kanna#latest
https://www.reddit.com/r/Maplestory/comments/6zg5g2/kanna_is_like_a_tricycle_rider/

However, the decision to adjust Haku's Blessing formula was made after much review of the community feedback and discussions from our game teams. Ultimately, we will continue to review the state of Kanna after this change is made. Haku's Blessing's formula will be changed from multiplicative into a flat magic attack buff based on the magic attack modifier on Kanna's fans for every member in the party on 10/18/2017.

We will be sure to monitor all points pertaining to Kanna's performance in-game in conjunction with the community's feedback for additional discussions regarding the class' balance in the future.

Comments

  • TsundereKyuTsundereKyu
    Reactions: 400
    Posts: 2
    Member
    edited October 13
    "MORE COMPETITIVE WITH OTHER MAGES"

    Like I'm so glad that Nexon America thinks that this is a good idea.
  • ForeverAsleepForeverAsleep
    Reactions: 430
    Posts: 2
    Member, Private Tester
    edited October 13
    The decision to change Haku's Blessing formula from a multiplicative into a flat magic attack buff based on the Haku fan's magic attack modifier is completely contradictory towards the posts linked above under "This feedback can be seen here". If anything, the whole purpose of those posts demonstrated the need for the Haku's blessing formula to be kept as is & instead change the buff to be self-only.

    Yes, changing the formula will decrease the effectiveness of mage-only or mage-heavy parties having an advantage, but this change will completely ruin Kanna's individual potential to train, farm, and complete solo content.

    Please reconsider. This is disappointing.
  • IvangoldIvangold
    Reactions: 2,165
    Posts: 491
    Member
    edited October 13
    The second feedback was made last year's , it's not even comparable to today's Kanna, it doesn't make sense to use that as a excuse to nerf it, i think Haku's blessing need be party oriented, there's almost to zero incentivate to bring people aside from maybe Bishops and WH with their buffs, it was always a party buff, doesn't seens good to change now.
  • SoephaaiSoephaai
    Reactions: 535
    Posts: 11
    Member
    edited October 13
    So then why didn't you decide to make Haku's Blessing into a self-buff?

    The second set of feedback you quoted in the main post clearly state that Kanna will be completely useless on her own when the Haku buff is a flat buff instead of %. Sure this will remove some of the issues surrounding party play, making Kanna + mage parties less dominating, but is this not making Kanna on her own completely irrelevant?
    HachudarikPermaSherri
  • AnythingAnything
    Reactions: 685
    Posts: 27
    Member
    edited October 13
    Too much information to read. I guess the range will be decreased on Kanna after the change or it will only be adjusted for party members and that Kanna get to keep the boost on Haku's Blessing?

    'Haku's Blessing's formula will be changed from multiplicative into a flat magic attack buff based on the magic attack modifier on Kanna's fans for every member in the party on 10/18/2017.'

    Although my Kanna is my 2nd strongest character right now I don't main it. I gave my Kanna some equipments so it could at least kill Elite Bosses where I train on my main. I understand the skill Haku's Blessing would give a great boost to mage classes, thus making these mage classes even stronger. In comparison with other mages it would kinda kill the competitivity when they are also in the same party. So in that perspective I would understand why it has to be changed, although I didn't benefit from Kanna because my main is a physical attacker.
  • FatalyzFatalyz
    Reactions: 205
    Posts: 2
    Member, Private Tester
    edited October 13
    "Rather than encouraging party play, Maplers felt that Haku's Blessing discouraged Kanna from partying with physical based jobs."
    How have you fixed this problem? Turning the buff to give flat MAGIC damage still discourages Kanna to party with physical damage dealers.

    "It was made clear to us that this buff was too powerful and making it a party buff for other mage classes to abuse was for the lack of better words, broken."
    It still is. All you've done is weakened the buff for all mages but MORE IMPORTANTLY you have made Kanna incredibly weak solo.

    Proposed change:
    Allow Kanna's to have % matk for themselves. Keep the final damage% buff per party member as the only party effect. Your logic in turning the buff to flat magic atk makes no logical sense and doesn't resolve any of the problems you mentioned.
  • ForeverAsleepForeverAsleep
    Reactions: 430
    Posts: 2
    Member, Private Tester
    edited October 13
    Proposed change:

    Allow Kanna to continue receiving % Magic Attack from Haku's Blessing.
    Remove the party aspect of Haku's Blessing entirely.
    Remove the current flat amount of Magic Attack from Haku's Blessing.

    (Kanna already provides a substantial amount of party utility through increased IED, Boss / Stance, and Status Resist, alongside heals and final damage boosts. Please don't gut Kanna's individual capabilities for the sake of nerfing party play or remaining consistent with other servers. The majority of the Kannas in other servers that received this change quit their characters and sold off their gear.)
    shavitHachuSherri
  • AKradianAKradian
    Reactions: 26,915
    Posts: 3,862
    Member, Private Tester
    edited October 13
    This is by far the stupidest change possible to Haku's Blessing.
    Instead of changing it to self-only and keeping it %m.att, to keep Kanna viable solo while not making her ridiculous in parties of mages,
    you went and made her completely helpless solo, but still an unbalanced buff to mage party members.

    Well done, Nexon America and GMS team.
    Shows you understood everything the community was saying, and act on that feedback. In reverse.
    shavitNyaraArgentDemonluckShadowParadoxHachuSlicedTimeRennnRetr0_PuppyMangoand 3 others.
  • OwIieOwIie
    Reactions: 891
    Posts: 24
    Member
    edited October 13
    Every single post so far posted is very valid and well explained.

    I'll pitch in once again as a Kanna main.

    Kanna NEEDS haku buff as is to be AVERAGE at soloing.
    Other mages getting it breaks the game.
    Physical dmg classes gain nothing.

    Change the latter two please and keep the first one intact or Kanna will not be worth anybody's time. And that would be a shame cause it's very fun to play.
    My suggestion is: make it buff everyone in pty slightly or not buff anyone at all.
    As is, Kanna already is great support with kishin, barriers and 5th job skill.
    Sherri
  • shavitshavit
    Reactions: 1,210
    Posts: 58
    Member
    edited October 13
    Bad change.
    Kanna's Haku's Blessing needs to be a self-buff, and maybe cut the flat m.att it currently gives in a half.
    Making Kanna unplayable is just going to make many players quit the game. Just imagine all the mad kids filling chargebacks, you guys sure do love losing clients and slowly (but surely) killing your game.
    Sherri
  • DexterinioDexterinio
    Reactions: 320
    Posts: 2
    Member, Private Tester
    edited October 13
    Please don't.
    Sherri
  • EvolzarEvolzar
    Reactions: 100
    Posts: 2
    Member
    edited October 13
    Arwoo wrote: »
    After much discussion and communication, the decision was made that we will be making the change to Haku's Blessing's magic damage buff formula. Currently, Haku's Blessing provides a significant increase to only magic attack based on the attack power of her fans. Rather than encouraging party play, Maplers felt that Haku's Blessing discouraged Kanna from partying with physical based jobs.

    This feedback can be seen here:
    http://forums.maplestory.nexon.net/discussion/14194/hakus-blessing-is-unresonable
    http://forums.maplestory.nexon.net/discussion/4528/kanna-and-party-buffs


    It was made clear to us that this buff was too powerful and making it a party buff for other mage classes to abuse was for the lack of better words, broken.

    When the original intention of the change to Haku's Blessing was first introduced to the community, the feedback was overall negative. It was communicated to us by our community, that what made Kanna a competitive class, was the fact that the class made already powerful mages even stronger with Haku's Blessing.

    This feedback can be seen here:
    http://forums.maplestory.nexon.net/discussion/comment/55865/#Comment_55865
    http://forums.maplestory.nexon.net/discussion/15605/regarding-changes-to-kanna#latest
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Maplestory/comments/6zg5g2/kanna_is_like_a_tricycle_rider/

    However, the decision to adjust Haku's Blessing formula was made after much review of the community feedback and discussions from our game teams. Ultimately, we will continue to review the state of Kanna after this change is made. Haku's Blessing's formula will be changed from multiplicative into a flat magic attack buff based on the magic attack modifier on Kanna's fans for every member in the party on 10/18/2017.

    We will be sure to monitor all points pertaining to Kanna's performance in-game in conjunction with the community's feedback for additional discussions regarding the class' balance in the future.

    Moderator Note: Edited due to language.
  • ArgentArgent
    Reactions: 1,195
    Posts: 71
    Member
    edited October 13
    Arwoo wrote: »
    After much discussion and communication, the decision was made that we will be making the change to Haku's Blessing's magic damage buff formula. Currently, Haku's Blessing provides a significant increase to only magic attack based on the attack power of her fans. Rather than encouraging party play, Maplers felt that Haku's Blessing discouraged Kanna from partying with physical based jobs.

    However, the decision to adjust Haku's Blessing formula was made after much review of the community feedback and discussions from our game teams. Ultimately, we will continue to review the state of Kanna after this change is made. Haku's Blessing's formula will be changed from multiplicative into a flat magic attack buff based on the magic attack modifier on Kanna's fans for every member in the party on 10/18/2017.

    We will be sure to monitor all points pertaining to Kanna's performance in-game in conjunction with the community's feedback for additional discussions regarding the class' balance in the future.

    Once again Nexon show's themselves to be completely incompetent at balancing their game. This comes after the last buff to Kanna which actually almost made it worth playing the class and even then they still needed further buffing. I doubt I'll even be able to go to Arcana after this.

    If some players didn't like the magic attack buff that Kanna gave to other mages, fine we can adjust that. The best way would be to give the party access to the Final Damage instead of %Magic Attack or give them no attack buff at all if that was still deemed too powerful. Instead, you take the worst option by just shoehorning in another update from the other regions without any thought.

    Flat magic attack is not going to help. In order for that to even be reasonable, the base damage for all of Kanna's skills is going to need to be at least doubled! For example, Vanquishers Charm is going to need to do 400% damage or more.

    We hear you guys say Haku can't be a self-buff, but you don't give a good or technical reason. Nexon says they might revisit these changes, but in months it would take to maybe gather data all the Kannas suffer.

    Every update I need to rethink my decision to play this game...

    Sherri
  • FinnFinn
    Reactions: 310
    Post: 1
    Member
    edited October 13
    I love how major decisions are still being made off of a select vocal minority that complains annoyingly enough.

    I'm not even surprised. Everytime there is a community outcry, its like the refute is always chosen.

    As a community manager, I dare you.. DARE you to put up a public poll asking the player base what direction they want Kannas and their Haku's blessing to go. The current player base. Not one from a year ago. Like seriously? Time to revert every kanna back to a kishin mule.

    Ps. You're killing the game- Maplestory is dying. Because its dying.
    Sherri
  • NyaraNyara
    Reactions: 625
    Posts: 19
    Member
    edited October 13
    Nexon, is it really that hard to do things right? It really is so hard that it becomes impossible for you to do just as much?

    Kanna NEEDS the current buff to being capable of doing things alone, without it the class becomes totally useless aside as a Kishin mule and as a buff for magician boss parties. Right now you will force Kanna mains to drop the class altogether and highly likely a lot of them leave Maple altogether, and with that all the NX they wanted to invest, just to add. The solution is just as simple as adding a passive effect to the skill that makes up the difference from the nerf: not a change to the buff, a passive, so it only affects the Kanna.

    Now you just admited that a goal is to balance magician and physical classes, so... why not just change the MATK% for Final Damage?

    If you do those two things I doubt someone will complain about even a strong 3/4 nerf to the party buff (or you can even remove the party buff altogether and make it a self buff, to make it super simple). Everyone will be happy = More $ for Nexon. Everyone wins with this, we're not against you Nexon, we are all in the same team this time, just stop kicking the ball to your team's arch again.
  • XenooooonXenooooon
    Reactions: 330
    Posts: 4
    Member, Private Tester
    edited October 13
    Nyara wrote: »
    Nexon, is it really that hard to do things right? It really is so hard that it becomes impossible for you to do just as much?

    Kanna NEEDS the current buff to being capable of doing things alone, without it the class becomes totally useless aside as a Kishin mule and as a buff for magician boss parties. Right now you will force Kanna mains to drop the class altogether and highly likely a lot of them leave Maple altogether, and with that all the NX they wanted to invest, just to add. The solution is just as simple as adding a passive effect to the skill that makes up the difference from the nerf: not a change to the buff, a passive, so it only affects the Kanna.

    Now you just admited that a goal is to balance magician and physical classes, so... why not just change the MATK% for Final Damage?

    If you do those two things I doubt someone will complain about even a strong 2/3 nerf to the party buff. Everyone will be happy = More $ for Nexon. Everyone wins with this, we're not against you Nexon, we are all in the same team this time, just stop kicking the ball to your team's arch again.

    Highlighting nexon's economical business with employee's that have nothing to do with it is just annoying (to read from your post), if you want to be helpful, you shouldnt highlight cash related things to something that has nothing to do with the problem at hand.
  • NyaraNyara
    Reactions: 625
    Posts: 19
    Member
    edited October 13
    Xenooooon wrote: »
    Highlighting nexon's economical business with employee's that have nothing to do with it is just annoying (to read from your post), if you want to be helpful, you shouldnt highlight cash related things to something that has nothing to do with the problem at hand.

    Nexon did read our feedback, and decided they had to do exactly the inverse thing since somehow they think it is players wanting to be stronger for free. It is exactly the inverse, we don't want the broken party buff anymore, we just want the Kanna mains doesn't get killed altogether in the process. He doesn't have anything to do with the economical part of the business, but I felt urged to state that their current actions are not going to benefit them against us, it is just going to ruin all of us in the process, and as a community manager he can relay that message.

    As for a message to the community manager himself: I feel it is weird you state a goal and afterwards you do exactly the inverse in reality. It doesn't look good, it won't get you any like, costumers hates obvious lies (or if it isn't a lie, then seeing the company's representative doing a really absurd mistake).
  • SpiritSpirit
    Reactions: 1,285
    Posts: 35
    Member, Private Tester
    edited October 13
    This nerf won't make Kanna on par with other mages at all. It'll just make her be the most useless mage. Competing with other mages? More like erasing her from competing in the first place.

    This nerf is even worse for Reboot Kanna mains. They can't even fight monsters even within 30 levels of their own, unless you have tons of range and this nerf basically halves all of her damage output. This isn't fair for those who main Kanna on Reboot and non-Reboot as a whole, but it's even worse for Reboot because of the massive HP of all the mobs. My kanna is level 204 and on Reboot, he does 1m lines at 570k buffed, before the buff, it was 600k lines at 250k buffed. If Haku is nerfed, then.. well, you can see what will happen. I will be stuck with worse damage than before the buff even.

    It's things like this that make me dislike investing in non-KMS classes. They get nerfed way too bad and can't compete against every other class because they're afraid of making a class that can be relevant. Remember Jett's buffs? I still don't see Jett being relevant now, do you? All Nexon America did was buff his FMA then take it away and nerf and slightly buff a couple things. At least buff a class right if you're making changes at all. It was like they did absolutely nothing for Jett.

    Jett, Beast Tamer, and Kanna all share the exact alike problems, they're slow or rely on low % damage attacks with little amount of damage lines. There's the issue right there. Nexon America can go ahead and nerf Haku, but they should at least boost her primary skills damage to make up for that. Something like this would change her outlook. On the left is current damage + attacks and on the left is what would be better if Haku gets nerfed.

    Vanquisher's Charm
    Damage: 242% > 342%
    Attacks: 3 > 4

    Shikigami Haunting
    Total Damage increase: 255% > 300%
    Attacks: 2 > 3

    Tengu Strike
    Damage: 200% > 260%
    Attacks: 5 > 6

    Everything else Kanna has are fine the way they are. These are just Kanna's most important skills. If these get buffed, she will have a better time competing with the other mages. An example, Luminous' Reflections is 400% damage with 4 attacks. Compared to Kanna's Shikigami Haunting at 255% with 2 attacks. Most mage's primary mobbing skills are 300% and above with 4-6 damage lines on them.
    ArgentNyaraHachuSherri
  • ArgentArgent
    Reactions: 1,195
    Posts: 71
    Member
    edited October 13
    Spirit wrote: »

    Jett, Beast Tamer, and Kanna all share the exact alike problems, they're slow or rely on low % damage attacks with little amount of damage lines. There's the issue right there. Nexon America can go ahead and nerf Haku, but they should at least boost her primary skills damage to make up for that. Something like this would change her outlook. The on the left is current damage + attacks and on the left is what would be better if Haku gets nerfed.

    Vanquisher's Charm
    Damage: 242% > 342%
    Attacks: 3 > 4

    Shikigami Haunting
    Total Damage increase: 255% > 300%
    Attacks: 2 > 3

    Tengu Strike
    Damage: 200% > 260%
    Attacks: 5 > 6

    Everything else Kanna has are fine the way they are. These are just Kanna's most important skills. If these get buffed, she will have a better time competing with the other mages. An example, Luminous' Reflections is 400% damage with 4 attacks. Compared to Kanna's Shikigami Haunting at 255% with 2 attacks. Most mage's primary mobbing skills are 300% and above with 4-6 damage lines on them.

    The skills are going to need to be buffed even more than that. Even with the FD buff we got last time Kanna skills hit way less than most other classes. I don't have any other mages over 200 right now, but my Kanna is 224 and my DA is 222, both with fairly similar gear and base stats. Buffed I have like 8m range on my Kanna and it still does less damage than my DA.

    I don't even expect to be able to do Arcana or Lach after next week.
    SpiritNyaraSherri
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
    Reactions: 2,905
    Posts: 1,347
    Member
    edited October 13
    Didnt they also remove the buff you get from haku equipped fan? Making Kanna weaker already