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Revisiting Bonus Stats on non-KMS gear

AKradianAKradian
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edited August 2018 in Suggestions, Feedback, and Requests
In his July 12 memo, SavageAce explained the low bonus stats on non-KMS equipment thus:
“As many of you know, in regards to Bonus Stats and flames, some equipment obtained from bosses can behave differently than items obtained from regular monster drops. The items mentioned above do not follow this special behavior due to many of these equipment already exceeding the capabilities of other equipment obtained from bosses. Similar to Superior gear restrictions, some of these items may potentially disrupt the balance of equipment and power, and overall satisfaction with many other content available in MapleStory.”

I'd like to re-examine this rationale, in light of developments since then, especially the introduction of level 25 star force.

First of all, and regardless of developments, restricting bonus stats on all non-KMS equipment because “many of these equipment” or “some of these items” are OP, is not fair. I realize it's a lot of work to try to sort which items do or don't deserve the “boss reward” flag, but the VFM team will gladly help.

Second, and again regardless of developments, it makes no sense from a game consistency perspective, to require GMS players to know which items originate from KMS and which don't.

Now, let us look at the sets and items most often mentioned in this context.

I'll go from easy to hard:

Japanese Myth a.k.a Sengoku: This set is nowhere near “exceeding the capabilities of other equipment obtained from bosses.” The proof is in the fact that nobody chooses to wear it. The only ones wearing this level 150 set are those people in Reboot who choose to not get carried through Chaos Root Abyss for the Root Abyss set. And even those people prefer the Empress Cygnus (level 140) set, if they can get it.
So, since this set is dropped from a boss (Ranmaru) and is not overpowered, it should be marked bossReward and allowed to have top-tier bonus stats.

Terminus weapons: These items are not overpowered, due to their lack of a set effect. Again, the proof is that people prefer to use Fafnir equipment – and of course Absolab or Arcane Umbra if they can manage to get them. On the other hand, these items were not originally a boss drop. Even after they were (supposedly) added to The Boss's drop table, the vast majority come from Cash sources. So these items should not be tagged bossReward.

Sweetwater weapons: They have stats comparable to the Absolab set, which makes sense since both are level 160. They can only be obtained as drops from bosses. They should be tagged bossReward.

Sweetwater armor: This is an interesting case. The sweetwater set, on its own, is nice – but due to having an overall rather than a top+bottom, it is once again not used except by people who can't obtain CRA set.
The Cape, Boots, and Gloves can obtain “Superior gear” stats by being transposed from Tyrants. However, they can get top-tier bonus stats through that transposition (since Tyrants can get those). So untransposed Sweetwater can only have low-tier bonus stats, but Sweetwater transposed from Tyrants can have high-tier bonus stats that “disrupts the balance of power”? Obviously this makes no sense.
Fortunately, the power of the Sweetwater Cape, Boots, and Gloves is restricted by their cap of 15 stars (even when not transposed). Which means that now with the introduction of 25 stars, even transposed Sweetwater is no longer considered the best-in-slot gear in GMS.
So, I cannot see any justification for not letting Sweetwater armor, which is only obtainable from bosses, be tagged bossReward.

Sweetwater accessories: Everyone (who can) uses the Sweetwater face and eye accessories. They are not, however, more powerful than anything dropped by other bosses. The true Best-in-Slot items for face and eye are those dropped by Lotus and Damien.
The Sweetwater accessories are not directly dropped by bosses. They are obtained with coins that can, theoretically, be earned without defeating any bosses. However, so are Tyrant Gloves, and they do count as a bossReward.
In my opinion, allowing these items to have top-tier bonus stats is not going to break anything in the game. But keeping them as they are is also acceptable.

Gollux accessories: These are, indeed, better than anything KMS has for those slots (except for the belt). Especially in non-Reboot, where all parts of the set can realistically be starred to 22.
However, the fact that Nexon allows Gollux equipment to have 25 stars, proves that they don't really see it as deserving of "[tyrant-like] Superior gear restrictions".
In my opinion, the difference between tier 5 and tier 7 bonus stats, on just 4 items, is not going to make anyone excessively overpowered. And on the other hand, it's important for game consistency that “boss rewards” include everything obtained from bosses, especially those that are in the Boss Matchmaking UI (which Gollux is).


Some other non-KMS items that should be marked as “boss rewards” since they are obtained from bosses are:

Blackgate equipment
Krexel shoulder (shoulders can't be flamed, but many items that can't have bonus stats at this time still have the bossReward flag, for future update)
Ghost Ship Exorcist badge
Alien Fragment equipment


Lastly, many KMS event items are “boss reward” despite not being obtained from bosses. In order to be consistent with those, we should probably mark the following “boss reward” as well:

Sengoku Hakase badge
Red Leaf and Sengoku High pocket items
Hunter's Club badges and pocket items (they are low level so it hardly matters, but...)


For reference, here are the items currently marked "boss reward" in GMS: http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=80876

Opinions, or discussion of items I forgot, welcome.
ArgentDFDFDIts2Sharp4UdarikLyeden

Comments

  • ArgentArgent
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    edited August 2018
    Agreed on everything.

    I personally feel that there wasn't much internal deliberation on how to apply flames to items originating outside of KMS. If there had been, it seems the team completely misunderstood how flames would affect these items or that the team never received approval to make the changes necessary to have flames be consistent. We'll probably never know exactly what went on behind the scenes or what those discussions entailed since Nexon doesn't make those things public.

    Hopefully, flames on these items can be revisited but I'm setting my expectations very, very low considering Nexon's track record.
  • DFDFDDFDFD
    Reactions: 1,740
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    edited August 2018
    Completely agree with everything you wrote. I think Nexon's decision has been extremely lazy and with little actual consideration of game balance.
  • DaxterbeerDaxterbeer
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    edited August 2018
    AKradian, some other items worth adding to Boss Rewards category should include:
    • VIP Weapons/Armors
    • Unwelcome Guest Weapons/Armors
    • Raccoon Masks
    • Spectrum Goggles






  • TerrorStreakTerrorStreak
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    edited August 2018
    well said but you forgot another important one that doesn;t make sense to suffer horrible rolling and that is

    REAPER'S PENDANT!
  • AKradianAKradian
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    edited August 2018
    Daxterbeer wrote: »
    AKradian, some other items worth adding to Boss Rewards category should include:
    • VIP Weapons/Armors
    • Unwelcome Guest Weapons/Armors
    • Raccoon Masks
    • Spectrum Goggles

    Agreed on the VIP and Unwelcome gear.
    Raccoon Masks are not boss drops or event equipment. They're gachapon items. So they don't deserve the "boss reward" flag.
    As for Spectrum Goggles, I know they used to be obtainable from CWKPQ. Are they in gach or something like that now?
    well said but you forgot another important one that doesn;t make sense to suffer horrible rolling and that is

    REAPER'S PENDANT!

    Reaper's Pendant is not a boss drop or an event item, either.
  • JushiroNetJushiroNet
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    edited August 2018
    AKradian wrote: »
    well said but you forgot another important one that doesn;t make sense to suffer horrible rolling and that is

    REAPER'S PENDANT!

    Reaper's Pendant is not a boss drop or an event item, either.

    What's stopping us from arguing that scarlet is boss tagged "gacha-esque" item therefore all gacha type items should be?
  • AKradianAKradian
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    edited August 2018
    JushiroNet wrote: »
    AKradian wrote: »
    well said but you forgot another important one that doesn;t make sense to suffer horrible rolling and that is

    REAPER'S PENDANT!

    Reaper's Pendant is not a boss drop or an event item, either.

    What's stopping us from arguing that scarlet is boss tagged "gacha-esque" item therefore all gacha type items should be?

    Hmmm... You have a point. Scarlet items, and also Golden Apple items like Chaos Potion weapons and Wings of Wisdom, etc, are "boss rewards". So maybe other cash-random-reward items should be, as well.
  • PeepPeep
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    edited August 2018
    They should just give all items the boss tag for flames. Just for the sake of consistency. Like many of the items you listed, some are actually from bosses and deserve to have the boss tag for flames anyway.

    There is an issue regarding the shoulders. Currently only scarlet shoulder can be flamed which is ridiculous. If you're going to allow one shoulder to recieve flames then they should do it for the rest.

    One of the other big issues is people who flamed tyrant gear with top tier flames and then xposed keeping those top tier flames after. Like Nexon said, this should disrupt the balance of power if they're really all about that. They should allow sweetwater to get the boss tag for flames also as they technically come from bosses anyway on the voyage.

    100% agree on Gollux. They already gave us 25 stars for them so 4-6 items isn't going to be a big deal at all. Flames are tiny compared to 25 stars.

    Just a lot of issues in general with capping tiers on items for flames.
  • xxHorntailxxxxHorntailxx
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    edited August 2018
    Forgot to mention Lucky Items too, For example, CVellum Helmet. But I do understand why they wouldn't allow that to be a boss item. If they do allow that to be a boss item, that would be pretty broken because not only they could get good flames but they can also unlock a set effect that you wouldn't be able to normally unlock. For example, normally, you can only get up to like either a 3 CRA/5 Absolab configuration or a 4 CRA/4 Absolab configuration. With the Lucky Hat, you're able to get 4 CRA/5 Absolab configuration, which you can actually get Boss Damage from 2 different sets. So nerfing the lucky hat does balance the game because even if you're trading off the flame stats and star force attack you could've gotten on a Boss Hat (fafnir, absolab, arcane), you basically unlock a set effect that you couldn't normally get. But you obviously don't want a lucky hat to substitute a Arcane Hat.
  • AKradianAKradian
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    edited August 2018
    Peep wrote: »
    There is an issue regarding the shoulders. Currently only scarlet shoulder can be flamed which is ridiculous. If you're going to allow one shoulder to recieve flames then they should do it for the rest.
    Forgot to mention Lucky Items too, For example, CVellum Helmet.

    This suggestion is about non-KMS items.
    I do not intend to challenge KMS decisions regarding items that can't be flamed at all (like shoulders) or do not have the "boss reward" flag (like CVellum Helmet).
    I feel that would be orders of magnitude harder to change.

    DFDFDIts2Sharp4U