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How Nexon can fix meso farming suicide Kannas

anubis421anubis421
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edited September 13 in General Chat
How Nexon can fix meso farming suicide Kannas (Hackers/botters)

Remove death exp loss penalty.

It's so simple. Why didn't nobody thought of this sooner? It could be part of [A Better Maple With Less Hackers] thing that none care about it these days.
Why everyone else (every other class besides Kanna) gotta suffer because they accidentally died? So many days to get that 10% at level 249, all for it to go to waste because you forgot to buy a safety charm. Or because it expired or something. This change would vastly improve the game because it's all about progression, right? Nobody wants to do the same thing over and over again because something like losing exp is holding them back. Best suggestion ever.

I just saw 9 Kanna Hackers trying to kill themself at Kerning Tower. It was such a strange thing to witness. These hackers need to stop hacking with this suicide workaround.
Do you know why Kanna Hackers kill themself? Because they need to stay near the mob's level range to farm for their precious mesos.

Since nobody wants Kishin to be removed, you might as well change it so you don't lose exp when dying anymore. That ought to piss off all those hackers.
Seriously, I'm trying to get Ghost Ship badge thing and Krexel Pauldron thing, but these suicide Kanna hackers keep coming up into all the maps.

Also there are those 7 or 8 Kanna Hackers that kept stalking me by hindering my progression for getting that Ghost Ship badge that one time.
I seriously don't know what to do about it... I realized there's really nothing to do about it...
At first I thought and felt as if they were stalking me on purpose, but then I realized that they didn't do this on purpose... it's just the amount of Kanna Hackers is just unbelievable insane and huge, until it get to the point when you feel as if they're stalking you "on purpose"... which they don't... they're just way way too many of them...

Got any more ideas how to stop hackers? feel free to share it here with us in the comments down below :)
  1. Sounds good?10 votes
    1. Yeah, I like it.
       40% (4 votes)
    2. Not really, because... (you must explain yourself now in the comments)
       50% (5 votes)
    3. I got more/better ideas! (you must explain them now in the comments)
       10% (1 vote)

Comments

  • FreedFreed
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    edited September 13
    As long as there is a feature in a game, it will be abused somehow. Removing penalties for dying isn't the answer. There is no permanent nor easy solution to get rid of hackers. They will be around regardless.

    Many games have them no matter what they do to combat it. The best they can do is mitigate them.
  • RokaniRokani
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    edited September 13
    Better if you die you respawn as a level 10 beginner =p
    Daxterbeer
  • DaxterbeerDaxterbeer
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    edited September 13
    Rokani wrote: »
    Better if you die you respawn as a level 10 beginner =p

    Good lord, don't bring back LAB memories. It was fun as a challenging side world, but changing the game to LAB will be scary.
  • LotheapLotheap
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    edited September 13
    anubis421 wrote: »
    Remove death exp loss penalty.

    This will only fk up legit players in reboot. Without suicide kanna you'll be stuck at 500k-1mil range at lv200 and progress at the speed of 100mil/hour. (suicide kanna's rate goes from 300-700m/hour for your reference)

    I assume you were talking about normal servers, where the hackers would use a one-time account relying on the 7 day puffram pet, and just ditch the character when the pet expires.
    Though there is an advanced hack which can extend pet duration to infinity by constantly resummons the pet before each second ticks, making even the 5hour snail last forever.
    Even then they don't expect those characters to have a long lifespan as they are prone to be banned anytime, especially when they open multiples in the same map across many channels.

    What I suppose is to REMOVE ALL FREE PETS, INCLUDING HILLA PET, this should stop all free hackers, with the exception of some premium hacks with item vac (it existed before, though I hardly see it now).
    (hilla pet may stay, as even botting to 170 takes some time, and they'll need multiple lv200+ dual blades to do equip the bots, but why not just remove it all for all, a pet is only 2bil mesos)
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited September 13
    removing the free pet isn't the best solution, some players, reboot included, want to play truly f2p, which means not spending even on pets. hilla pet can be water of lifed, and water of life is in reward shop
  • LotheapLotheap
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    edited September 14
    removing the free pet isn't the best solution, some players, reboot included, want to play truly f2p, which means not spending even on pets. hilla pet can be water of lifed, and water of life is in reward shop
    i don't know how much removing free pet would do to hackers, but i'd think the f2p would rather see NX:meso rate drop than having a single pet that only loot.

    and for reboot, you can run sw in normal server to get some points, though triple pet is generally required.

    removing death xp loss will defiantly NOT work, at least before they address spawn rate/ kishin changes.

    and what is your best solution?
    (assuming nexon will not go through the trouble to change all client-sided date to server-side)
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited September 14
    For one thing, changing kishin wouldn't work either, they'll ( hackers) will just move from one class to the next.
  • AKradianAKradian
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    edited September 14
    Hackers adapt.
    Do you remember that, before Kannas, they were using primarily Blaze Wizards? Nexon blocked the BW hacks, so the hackers moved on.
    I remember when meso-farmers were mostly Demons, and I remember when they were I/L mages, and when they were Evans, and when they were Spearmen. The meso-farming hackers adapt whenever Nexon manages to thwart their current method.

    Which is not to say Nexon should not keep working on blocking hacks. Just that they should not do it in ways that hamper legitimate players as well. Because the hackers will move to another class, but the legits will be stuck with the limitations. In the case of this suggestion, disabling "suicide kanna" meso farming would hurt legitimate Reboot players (and removing Kishin would hurt everyone that doesn't have a Frenzy Totem).

    EXP penalty on death is important to the game, not just because of the suicide kanna meta, but also as a mechanism that keeps players alert and motivates them to avoid death. Removing it just to stop a certain illicit meso-farming method, makes little sense.

    Besides, those non-KMS maps that the suicide Kannas use, should be updated to match similarly leveled normal maps, in terms of mob HP, EXP, and meso drops. But that's a subject for another thread.
  • LotheapLotheap
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    edited September 14
    For one thing, changing kishin wouldn't work either, they'll ( hackers) will just move from one class to the next.

    the two player-proposed change styles might do something, also solving the double-account server load problem.

    1: change kishin to a link skill:
    if it caps at 120 then nothing happens.
    hopefully the link reaches maximum at 210, hackers will now need to bot up their kanna to 210 along with decent equips, or face reduced rates. lv210 account on playerauction goes for $90 each.

    2: add kishin to node skill:
    if kanna still get their kishin then nothing happens to hackers.
    if kishin is removed from kanna, then they'll need lv200+ and a decent amount of nodes for it, which will defiantly render meso bots impossible, as long as they keep up the bans.

    although, both of these changes will make the legit players way harder to progress until they get a kanna/ nodes up on their account. so might NOT be a good idea to do so.
    (I got a 210 kanna so give me these changes i'll take it any day XD)

    either way, i'm just stating such hugely affective changes like kishin may possible alter many things.
    (if any GM is reading this, or Arwoo whom i assume is dead reporting ideas to them, please double think about any side effects)

    AKradian wrote: »
    Hackers adapt.
    Greetings fellow VFM, nice to see someone cared (though not the dead Arwoo who's paid(?) by nexon...).

    The advantage of hacker is ultimately multi-account, then 24/7 comes second.
    I suppose a possible solution is giving a huge advantage to a dedicated account, such as lv210 kishin link or node kishin as stated above, or even frenzy. Which will make hacker's rate go down compared to the normal income of a legit player. Hackers sure will always exist but at least will not have as big of an impact to the health of the game.
    AKradian wrote: »
    Besides, those non-KMS maps that the suicide Kannas use, should be updated to match similarly leveled normal maps, in terms of mob HP, EXP, and meso drops. But that's a subject for another thread.
    I know it kind of counts as a bug, but it's pretty important for reboot right now. I (and I believe along side with most of the players) would rather not see any change to those.
  • DFDFDDFDFD
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    edited September 14
    This wouldn't only affect hackers though. A lot of people on reboot rely on suicide Kannas as their main source of income.
    If they make them unviable, either due to your proposal or simply by removing x2 meso bag drops in MSEA areas, they will have to compensate with a significant increase in meso rates from normal mobs.
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited September 14
    Kanna teleport is a major factor in why they use it to bot
  • LotheapLotheap
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    edited September 14
    Kanna teleport is a major factor in why they use it to bot

    they do not use teleport to bot.

    tele-farming is a legit farming method in which you hold down two keys using various method (mechanical keyboard, sticky keys, Spanish keyboard etc,) and attack the maps at random.

    hackers, on kanna, will use 'grenade kami' and 'monkey spirit no delay', which teleport (a different kind of teleport) your monkey spirit attacks on to mobs of the entire map at 33.5 attacks per second. Along side with 'pet kami' which teleport (again the different kind of teleport) your pet on to the drops of the entire map. And 'item filter' which stop etc from dropping.

    please stop talking if you don't know what you are talking about.
    (unless you do mean the 'hacking teleports' by your 'kanna teleport', even then your statement is hugely misleading, and the general GM won't have the IQ level to understand and might just remove kanna's teleport (the legit teleport))
  • YinYangXYinYangX
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    edited September 14
    That god-complex mentality with the pool parenthesis. >.>

    Ppl should be penalized for making errors. Also, some people suicide cause they want to stay in level range for quests/achievements/other reasons.
  • AKradianAKradian
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    edited September 14
    Lotheap wrote: »
    AKradian wrote: »
    Hackers adapt.
    The advantage of hacker is ultimately multi-account, then 24/7 comes second.
    I suppose a possible solution is giving a huge advantage to a dedicated account, such as lv210 kishin link or node kishin as stated above, or even frenzy. Which will make hacker's rate go down compared to the normal income of a legit player. Hackers sure will always exist but at least will not have as big of an impact to the health of the game.

    Define "dedicated account".
    Reaching 210 takes mere hours.
    And you are punishing new legit players, who are already at a disadvantage compared to veterans.
  • LotheapLotheap
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    edited September 14
    AKradian wrote: »
    Define "dedicated account".
    Reaching 210 takes mere hours.
    And you are punishing new legit players, who are already at a disadvantage compared to veterans.
    I did say 210 is
    Lotheap wrote: »
    although, both of these changes will make the legit players way harder to progress until they get a kanna/ nodes up on their account. so might NOT be a good idea to do so.
    how about define 2 weeks of active gameplay as dedicated. How you define active gameplay is nexon's job now. And for me, 2 weeks of active gameplay would mean a 210 kanna, or rather, just 1 week.
    Or anything that a hacker will not go through on 20 accounts, heck even, gollux prequest. (though i'd assume it'll just take 10min with FMA and map rush?.. maybe not then)

    and new players are generally punished in mmorpgs. 22 star arcane + the new genesis weapon vs 210 kanna? i'll take the 210 kanna, i'll trade 10 lv210 kanna for one of those 22 star arcane piece. 20 for genesis weapon, 50 for frenzy.

    plus, one of the 'disadvantage compared to veterans' is a second computer, as of the current kishin. Which actually cost less than a frenzy but a general gamer would not have.
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited September 14
    Lotheap wrote: »
    Kanna teleport is a major factor in why they use it to bot

    they do not use teleport to bot.

    tele-farming is a legit farming method in which you hold down two keys using various method (mechanical keyboard, sticky keys, Spanish keyboard etc,) and attack the maps at random.

    hackers, on kanna, will use 'grenade kami' and 'monkey spirit no delay', which teleport (a different kind of teleport) your monkey spirit attacks on to mobs of the entire map at 33.5 attacks per second. Along side with 'pet kami' which teleport (again the different kind of teleport) your pet on to the drops of the entire map. And 'item filter' which stop etc from dropping.

    please stop talking if you don't know what you are talking about.
    (unless you do mean the 'hacking teleports' by your 'kanna teleport', even then your statement is hugely misleading, and the general GM won't have the IQ level to understand and might just remove kanna's teleport (the legit teleport))

    Thank you for the call out, and the invitation and opportunity to respond, but engaging with you wouldnt solve anything. I know what I said, and why I said it. There's a noticeable difference in the blink style teleport bots use and the kanna teleport, slight delay and purple effect. I've seen plenty bots use Kanna teleport while botting.

    All I will say is both Kishin link skill and kishin node, are both stupid ideas.
    Dodoch
  • LotheapLotheap
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    edited September 14
    All I will say is both Kishin link skill and kishin node, are both stupid ideas.

    Alright I can see how the ideas are stupid. But I think it's equally if not more stupid to keep the current state of kishin. (and of course beyond simply stupid to just remove it)

    And may I invite you again, to state what is your best solution? On either hacking or kanna mules.
  • TerrorStreakTerrorStreak
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    edited September 14
    anubis421 wrote: »
    How Nexon can fix meso farming suicide Kannas (Hackers/botters)

    Also there are those 7 or 8 Kanna Hackers that kept stalking me by hindering my progression for getting that Ghost Ship badge that one time.
    I seriously don't know what to do about it... I realized there's really nothing to do about it...

    Really... you feel powerless to do anything about it! Have I got a suggestion for you.... How about you apply for a job at nexon and tear down the hacker's and botter's worlds with your own hands! You have the hate out for em, so get off your tukas and make it happen!
    ChroniusNightmare
  • TerrorStreakTerrorStreak
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    edited September 14
    AKradian wrote: »
    Lotheap wrote: »
    AKradian wrote: »
    Hackers adapt.
    The advantage of hacker is ultimately multi-account, then 24/7 comes second.
    I suppose a possible solution is giving a huge advantage to a dedicated account, such as lv210 kishin link or node kishin as stated above, or even frenzy. Which will make hacker's rate go down compared to the normal income of a legit player. Hackers sure will always exist but at least will not have as big of an impact to the health of the game.

    Define "dedicated account".
    Reaching 210 takes mere hours.
    And you are punishing new legit players, who are already at a disadvantage compared to veterans.

    Reaching 210 takes mere hours!? dude it takes me like 2 weeks of hardcore to level from 200->210! But i don't use kishin or frenzy =(
  • LotheapLotheap
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    edited September 14
    Reaching 210 takes mere hours!? dude it takes me like 2 weeks of hardcore to level from 200->210! But i don't use kishin or frenzy =(
    we were talking about hackers getting multiple accounts to 210 for meso botting...
    and indeed kishin is pretty important, I calculated it to be up to 4.25 times everything if you are killing things fast enough, even of you are leeching your kanna it's 2.55 times xp+meso, and full 4.25x drop.
    frenzy is 8.5 times.