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I do care but Nexon's not making it easy

DiosothDiosoth
Reactions: 320
Posts: 23
Member
edited January 11 in Rants and Raves
I did not take my account ban very well, nor would or should anyone who suddenly found themselves banned for a glitch in the game. This has been happening at an increasing rate for many players over the past month for various reasons but in most cases it seems the culprit is lag- a temporary lag spike causes packets to build up, flood in at once and the automated security system regards it as hacking. We've seen this with various skills, runes and other causes.

First you need to know a bit where I'm coming from. I started playing the game around... 2006 or 2007, I can't quite remember. It was before NLC was patched in, around version .32-.33, long before Big Bang. I remember the days of keeping the game open overnight to run a Free Market store, taking hours to gain a level when you were around level 70, 4th job at level 120, level 200 being a far off goal, having to use ships to get around because the Pantheon portal did not exist, and when squeezing out every bit of stats you could was a big deal because the best you could manage were small gains. Earning a few hundred million to buy that flashy new Bosshunter armor set for the +300 HP gain seemed essential for a bowman class.

The game has changed a lot. Leveling 1-200 is trivially easy. The plot is more important. The game encourages playing multiple characters. Auction House is far more convenient than Free Market. The focus on solo play seems to be stronger, even most "party" areas only require you form a party but you can be the only one in it. I also see far fewer players running around, in a way the game does feel like a single player adventure. Outside of towns in channel 1, I rarely see other players. It's kind of annoying when the only the players I might see in a day are botters.

I took a break for a couple years, after a point the game started to feel a bit redundant around 2015 or so. It further didn't help that I was diagnosed with a serious condition after suddenly bleeding uncontrollably in late 2016-

https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health-topics/immune-thrombocytopenia

I had to undergo two rounds of chemo as well as the steroids to treat this and even "cured" I am only in remission, it may come back and I need blood tests to keep an eye on things and to check my own body for signs daily. Stress can also set this off if I'm not careful. In a way this condition has led me to value what I do have and to want to hold onto it, but on the flipside it's caused me to develop certain defenses, in which I feel safer letting something go rather than stress over losing it if I see the fight as unwinnable. I am also more prone to colds and infections than normal due to the chemo drugs altering my immune system, in fact I just got over a 6-day severe cold, I've suffered these frequently the past 2 years.

I like this game. If I didn't I wouldn't be playing. It's escapism. It's fun. It's something where I feel I can accomplish things. If I wanted to play any random video game I have access to hundreds. I've played hundreds of them already, I've been playing since the 80s.

My account is now unbanned, the 30-day period expired. Somehow my characters seem to be back on ranks, even though ban policy says all bans are off ranks forever? I'm not sure why. Even so I still likely have a flag on the account marking it as a hacker, rendering me ineligible for certain events.

Others are still banned. They got permanent bans instead of 30 days. I'm not sure why I was so "lucky" but mine happened on Dec 9, before the massive pickup in the ban rate.

To say Nexon's customer service needs an overhaul is understating it. Ban appeals really are iffy. It's why I didn't bother to push tickets, from my own initial experience with it and from what google turned up on other such bans, automated responses are the norm. The system largely brushes us off. Even if we request a senior GM investigate and they listen, that could take weeks. Live chats seem to offer the same results from accounts of many who have used it- they're told the same thing as the ticket system. Even then it seems these "GM" responders have no ability actually lift a ban if they even wanted to or even have access to anything other than a single bit of info on why the ban was issued, rather than actual data logs. This system needs to be reworked massively, because a high ticket "solve" rate may look good on paper to someone on staff but means nothing when 98% of customers are getting stock replies.

I'm aware that actual hackers abuse the appeal system and flood it, but when those who are caught in fake bans are getting brushed off and regarded as guilty from the start then the system isn't doing its job and doesn't help those it was set up to help. The botters & meso sellers don't really care either, they make new accounts instead of appealing. I bet some normal hackers probably don't care either since they know they can make a new account and hack away, while those of us who invested many years into honest play are getting brushed off.

Even unbanned I still don't feel safe playing the game. The automated security is still randomly issuing permanent bans to players for the slightest things- skills, runes, being in a map, lag, whatever. It does me no good to play if I get permabanned within 15 minutes of logging in. I feel my account is safer not using it, and that's no better than being banned, now is it? I've monitored the subreddit, bans are still ongoing and others say they're staying out just to avoid the risk.

Nexon needs to fix a lot of things. Clearly something went funny around December, if necessary they need to revert the security to a version from before then and fix things before reactivating the new system. Yes this may mean hackers get a temporary pass, but it seems what we have now is a danger to legit players while the hackers don't really care. Botters make new accounts. we know they bypassed the rune security system quickly, the hack developers admitted that much. If Kanna and Ark are really such big deals for the hackers, disable their creation until you can implement fixes.

We're at a point where we have a unique event going on that many of us have waited a decade to see, and are forced to miss out because they were banned, or are afraid of being banned. This is ruining the game for a lot of us. If this is not fixed they'll find a lot more long-time players get fed up and walk off, customer service should not be disregarding its player base. No other MMO company seems to be doing that right now.
FuhreakoldDD

Comments

  • rizariza
    Reactions: 2,005
    Posts: 444
    Member
    edited January 11
    Diosoth wrote: »
    I did not take my account ban very well, nor would or should anyone who suddenly found themselves banned for a glitch in the game. This has been happening at an increasing rate for many players over the past month for various reasons but in most cases it seems the culprit is lag- a temporary lag spike causes packets to build up, flood in at once and the automated security system regards it as hacking. We've seen this with various skills, runes and other causes.

    First you need to know a bit where I'm coming from. I started playing the game around... 2006 or 2007, I can't quite remember. It was before NLC was patched in, around version .32-.33, long before Big Bang. I remember the days of keeping the game open overnight to run a Free Market store, taking hours to gain a level when you were around level 70, 4th job at level 120, level 200 being a far off goal, having to use ships to get around because the Pantheon portal did not exist, and when squeezing out every bit of stats you could was a big deal because the best you could manage were small gains. Earning a few hundred million to buy that flashy new Bosshunter armor set for the +300 HP gain seemed essential for a bowman class.

    The game has changed a lot. Leveling 1-200 is trivially easy. The plot is more important. The game encourages playing multiple characters. Auction House is far more convenient than Free Market. The focus on solo play seems to be stronger, even most "party" areas only require you form a party but you can be the only one in it. I also see far fewer players running around, in a way the game does feel like a single player adventure. Outside of towns in channel 1, I rarely see other players. It's kind of annoying when the only the players I might see in a day are botters.

    I took a break for a couple years, after a point the game started to feel a bit redundant around 2015 or so. It further didn't help that I was diagnosed with a serious condition after suddenly bleeding uncontrollably in late 2016-

    https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health-topics/immune-thrombocytopenia

    I had to undergo two rounds of chemo as well as the steroids to treat this and even "cured" I am only in remission, it may come back and I need blood tests to keep an eye on things and to check my own body for signs daily. Stress can also set this off if I'm not careful. In a way this condition has led me to value what I do have and to want to hold onto it, but on the flipside it's caused me to develop certain defenses, in which I feel safer letting something go rather than stress over losing it if I see the fight as unwinnable. I am also more prone to colds and infections than normal due to the chemo drugs altering my immune system, in fact I just got over a 6-day severe cold, I've suffered these frequently the past 2 years.

    I like this game. If I didn't I wouldn't be playing. It's escapism. It's fun. It's something where I feel I can accomplish things. If I wanted to play any random video game I have access to hundreds. I've played hundreds of them already, I've been playing since the 80s.

    My account is now unbanned, the 30-day period expired. Somehow my characters seem to be back on ranks, even though ban policy says all bans are off ranks forever? I'm not sure why. Even so I still likely have a flag on the account marking it as a hacker, rendering me ineligible for certain events.

    Others are still banned. They got permanent bans instead of 30 days. I'm not sure why I was so "lucky" but mine happened on Dec 9, before the massive pickup in the ban rate.

    To say Nexon's customer service needs an overhaul is understating it. Ban appeals really are iffy. It's why I didn't bother to push tickets, from my own initial experience with it and from what google turned up on other such bans, automated responses are the norm. The system largely brushes us off. Even if we request a senior GM investigate and they listen, that could take weeks. Live chats seem to offer the same results from accounts of many who have used it- they're told the same thing as the ticket system. Even then it seems these "GM" responders have no ability actually lift a ban if they even wanted to or even have access to anything other than a single bit of info on why the ban was issued, rather than actual data logs. This system needs to be reworked massively, because a high ticket "solve" rate may look good on paper to someone on staff but means nothing when 98% of customers are getting stock replies.

    I'm aware that actual hackers abuse the appeal system and flood it, but when those who are caught in fake bans are getting brushed off and regarded as guilty from the start then the system isn't doing its job and doesn't help those it was set up to help. The botters & meso sellers don't really care either, they make new accounts instead of appealing. I bet some normal hackers probably don't care either since they know they can make a new account and hack away, while those of us who invested many years into honest play are getting brushed off.

    Even unbanned I still don't feel safe playing the game. The automated security is still randomly issuing permanent bans to players for the slightest things- skills, runes, being in a map, lag, whatever. It does me no good to play if I get permabanned within 15 minutes of logging in. I feel my account is safer not using it, and that's no better than being banned, now is it? I've monitored the subreddit, bans are still ongoing and others say they're staying out just to avoid the risk.

    Nexon needs to fix a lot of things. Clearly something went funny around December, if necessary they need to revert the security to a version from before then and fix things before reactivating the new system. Yes this may mean hackers get a temporary pass, but it seems what we have now is a danger to legit players while the hackers don't really care. Botters make new accounts. we know they bypassed the rune security system quickly, the hack developers admitted that much. If Kanna and Ark are really such big deals for the hackers, disable their creation until you can implement fixes.

    We're at a point where we have a unique event going on that many of us have waited a decade to see, and are forced to miss out because they were banned, or are afraid of being banned. This is ruining the game for a lot of us. If this is not fixed they'll find a lot more long-time players get fed up and walk off, customer service should not be disregarding its player base. No other MMO company seems to be doing that right now.

    This is what I'm talking about speak for the people bro ;) honestly we need more people like you to be vocal and use their voice to better our community. there is an issue and its hard to solve it but this is the year 2019 and this year will be the year where we as the people will be heard and will be treated with respect. this situation watching a lot of great players being mistreated and even perm ban. for playing the game and doing what most do best. "being an honest community member" I haven't been playing as long as you but I been around since 2011. But even so I enjoyed the game and the culture revolving around it. I had laughed and had haters but overall I had fun enjoying the content like many others. What gets on my nerves is people being mistreated and not being heard. It grinds my gears. infuriates me. makes me wanna throw a chair out a window. I think most who got hit with this ban system had been feeling the same. and we need to talk about one important thing. We need to talk about real issues going on in game. We have an issue with hackers and dupers which has been a phenomenon and an epidemic since the begiinigng of maple time. Also false bans and mistreatment. we also have an issue of getting the real threats and bad players. but this year we have to be strong and even very vocal on what we need and want. We need to be vocal about the unbanning of all who been hit wrongfully by the hack shield that is number one. second, we need to find the real hackers, dupers and anyone doing wrong in this game and "BAN THEM ALL" every single last one of them leave no survivors. We need to implement and bring in a new system that can easily and manually monitor players so we can keep the game fair. Also, find a way to have Nexon staff better communicate with players revolving issues and have a staff that won't ignore the people who they were hired to serve. We need another committee of players dedicated to serving the players directly and one that can do so with pride and honor. We need change and need to make maple great again like it used to be and make it better. But we need Nexon to listen to us but with how things are I doubt it :(
  • FuhreakFuhreak
    Reactions: 4,720
    Posts: 952
    Member, Private Tester
    edited January 12
    Good post.
    While I haven't been banned myself, there is slight concern over false bans.
    I've gotten the "You have been DC'd for hack reason" messages before when lagging.
    To think that these could turn into auto-bans is a bit scary.
    I've recently started to leave OBS up with a replay buffer, something I'd strongly suggest all players to do.

    Much like you I've been playing since the beginning.
    From the second day of release up until the release of reboot I've been on/off this game, only starting to seriously play after reboot.
    It's easy to understand how you could become emotionally attached to an account after so long and suffering so much.
    It's great that you got unbanned (and even got back on ranks, lucky!) but there are still several others who legitimacy of ban is questionable.

    Nexon is fighting extremely hard so that the game doesn't turn into what it used to be, where hackers openly hack in maps and couldn't care less if you report them.
    From the sounds of it, Bera is near or already at this point again. We've gotten out of this kind of thing before, we can do it again.
    Nexon boasts high ban numbers now, but I think this needs to slow down. When your ban number increases, so do false positives.
    This isn't to say they need to completely stop, but some of that effort does need to be placed into making sure bans are fair a little more.

    I think the solution we need to go for is stopping bots/hacks in-game (lie detection) or slowing down the account creation process. (verification)
    You can ban hackers all day long but it doesn't do any good if you don't slow or stop their replacement rate.
    It may sound like the reverse of what needs to be said, but I really think we need to slow down with the banning and look towards the root of the problem.
    Honestly though, we're not Nexon. We can't tell exactly what they're doing to stop the hackers unless they tell us.
    We have no idea of how many people are going through the ban appeal process. (I'd imagine bots don't bother, but hackers do.)

    So once again, I'd suggest that everyone start using a replay buffer or record your gameplay. All it takes is a little extra harddrive space or ram.
    If you see a hacker who doesn't just auto-CC or DC, then you have video evidence of hacking as well, hard to dispute that.
    Good luck to all the legit players, don't get auto-banned out there.
  • DiosothDiosoth
    Reactions: 320
    Posts: 23
    Member
    edited January 12
    I think a major problem as far as the appeals process goes is that it appears Nexon outsourced a foreign customer service center to handle tickets. This seems evident by the fact they reply quickly in the "off" hours when Nexon should be closed. These should not be coming in the middle of the night. Nor should these GMs, who supposedly have no ability to actually investigate or lift bans even if they wanted to, be handling tickets just to keep the clearance rate high. Furthermore banning users from the ticket system for life if they send 3+ tickets to appeal their ban is very bad CS. I understand banning someone for spamming it hourly but when there are reddit threads about users getting banned after 2-3 tickets in a week, something is very wrong. Unfortunately I don't know if Nexon America has the funds to overhaul their CS department nor the time, and with Nexon Korea being up for sale potentially to EA, things could get worse for the GMS branch.

    The automated system needs to be taken down or reverted to an earlier version that wasn't banning players, WHILE they investigate, not after. It's still doing too much damage. I wonder if an incompatibility between GMS security and the Black Mage patch content is an issue as it seems this started when the new content came and worsened as newer areas opened. Nexon even admitted the rune issue picked up the very day that part of the new security went live, despite working fine in testing.

    I can see the permanent ban logs Nexon posts. Most of those names are random character jumbles and those users will make new accounts within 10 minutes. Their bans don't matter to them. At most it's a brief inconvenience to the meso sellers. I don't know how to make account creation more secure though- phone verification? Hm, wouldn't really work. There are too many free virtual phone number services online, hackers would use them easily. Require IDs? YThat's how Korea does it but they have laws allowing it- I could imagine a massive uproar from US lawmakers and the media if Nexon insisted on it, as well as parents unwilling to allow that stuff shared for younger players(right now the account deactivation method requires an ID scan and I wonder how many birth certificates or driver's licenses are actually sent to them), coupled with the issue of foreign players since GMS and EMS merged, the worry over data breaches/ID theft because they will have to store all that information and companies getting hacked into has been a serious issue for years(and some of them- I'm looking at YOU, Sony!- may not even inform people of the breaches until months later!), not to mention demanding long-time players give that info to accounts they've had for years. That just isn't going to work.

    I'm also not saying that the amount of NX purchased should be a sole deciding factor in ban appeals, but our account records need to be improved- show when they were registered, what characters are on there, total play time and NX purchased, plus more detailed records of what tripped a ban. While it's not a 100% sign of innocence I'd be willing to state that a player of 5+ years with 20 characters who has spent a couple thousand on the game and has just NOW had a "hacking" ban applied is less likely to be an actual hacker than the 1 month old account that spent nothing yet has characters pushing level 250. And if players are recording their play sessions when a ban happens that footage should be watched, not ignored. While videos can be edited, someone livestreaming when they are banned probably didn't get the chance to do that especially of others witnessed it.

    I can't fully advise Nexon. I don't work for them, I don't have access to all their info or methods or the team. I can suggest things based on what little I know. They're not obligated to listen, and I don't know how much they pay attention to these forums. Maybe Ghiblee will see this? But whatever happens Nexon needs to do something or too many honest players are going to get alienated, either because they were thrown out or run off out of fear of being thrown out.
  • rizariza
    Reactions: 2,005
    Posts: 444
    Member
    edited January 13
    Diosoth wrote: »
    I think a major problem as far as the appeals process goes is that it appears Nexon outsourced a foreign customer service center to handle tickets. This seems evident by the fact they reply quickly in the "off" hours when Nexon should be closed. These should not be coming in the middle of the night. Nor should these GMs, who supposedly have no ability to actually investigate or lift bans even if they wanted to, be handling tickets just to keep the clearance rate high. Furthermore banning users from the ticket system for life if they send 3+ tickets to appeal their ban is very bad CS. I understand banning someone for spamming it hourly but when there are reddit threads about users getting banned after 2-3 tickets in a week, something is very wrong. Unfortunately I don't know if Nexon America has the funds to overhaul their CS department nor the time, and with Nexon Korea being up for sale potentially to EA, things could get worse for the GMS branch.

    The automated system needs to be taken down or reverted to an earlier version that wasn't banning players, WHILE they investigate, not after. It's still doing too much damage. I wonder if an incompatibility between GMS security and the Black Mage patch content is an issue as it seems this started when the new content came and worsened as newer areas opened. Nexon even admitted the rune issue picked up the very day that part of the new security went live, despite working fine in testing.

    I can see the permanent ban logs Nexon posts. Most of those names are random character jumbles and those users will make new accounts within 10 minutes. Their bans don't matter to them. At most it's a brief inconvenience to the meso sellers. I don't know how to make account creation more secure though- phone verification? Hm, wouldn't really work. There are too many free virtual phone number services online, hackers would use them easily. Require IDs? YThat's how Korea does it but they have laws allowing it- I could imagine a massive uproar from US lawmakers and the media if Nexon insisted on it, as well as parents unwilling to allow that stuff shared for younger players(right now the account deactivation method requires an ID scan and I wonder how many birth certificates or driver's licenses are actually sent to them), coupled with the issue of foreign players since GMS and EMS merged, the worry over data breaches/ID theft because they will have to store all that information and companies getting hacked into has been a serious issue for years(and some of them- I'm looking at YOU, Sony!- may not even inform people of the breaches until months later!), not to mention demanding long-time players give that info to accounts they've had for years. That just isn't going to work.

    I'm also not saying that the amount of NX purchased should be a sole deciding factor in ban appeals, but our account records need to be improved- show when they were registered, what characters are on there, total play time and NX purchased, plus more detailed records of what tripped a ban. While it's not a 100% sign of innocence I'd be willing to state that a player of 5+ years with 20 characters who has spent a couple thousand on the game and has just NOW had a "hacking" ban applied is less likely to be an actual hacker than the 1 month old account that spent nothing yet has characters pushing level 250. And if players are recording their play sessions when a ban happens that footage should be watched, not ignored. While videos can be edited, someone livestreaming when they are banned probably didn't get the chance to do that especially of others witnessed it.

    I can't fully advise Nexon. I don't work for them, I don't have access to all their info or methods or the team. I can suggest things based on what little I know. They're not obligated to listen, and I don't know how much they pay attention to these forums. Maybe Ghiblee will see this? But whatever happens Nexon needs to do something or too many honest players are going to get alienated, either because they were thrown out or run off out of fear of being thrown out.

    The thing is the list you mention does have regular names we investigated it and can confirm there were at least 50+ regular players on that list. We are running test as we speak from our end but rn we will bring the information needed to the team while we feel some of it isn't being done. The thing is I been saying even prior to me running for vfm that players should use screen recorders. Its a fact that people get blamed for things that they didn't do and the way it works with America "note we play on Nexon (America)" that the only way to prove yourself is to provide visual evidence as only seeing is believing. no one word now a day people seem to consider it as credible. This is bad, extremely bad. but life has to progress. Our objective rn from our end is to provide the facts and a way to fix it, and it is Nexon choice at the end of the day to listen. We may not know much about running a company but we do dang well know how to fix issues. Its like I posted before we are living in a time where we have loads of resources at our disposal why not use it? We have screen recorders why not use it? We have ways and coding to cloak and hide players which can moderate gameplay why not use it? We have top of the line maybe outdated company resources why not use it? Do we have a gamer base that would volunteer and moderate your game why not use it? The big question is why not use the resources we have in our booming and great time we live in. There is no place for excuses only solutions. we must and will make maple great again and we will use the powers we have to do it. "MODERN DAY TECHNOLOGY"
  • DiosothDiosoth
    Reactions: 320
    Posts: 23
    Member
    edited January 13
    I played over an hour today, but avoided runes, I'm not 100% certain those are safe to use yet. Even if I farm for max determination every day it's still going to cut close on unlocking all ranks or buying anything good in the shop, I only unlocked Hero 1 today. With the skills vanishing after, which I think is on the 22nd, it's going to be sort of useless to rank up outside of the hope of shopping and even then I may not get enough coins as I have to spend on rank ups to buy stuff from higher tiers. I've already missed the defeat of the Black Mage.

    @Ghiblee is new on staff as CM, we've been given some vague idea that Nexon is looking into the ban issue but we need something solid and soon. Lots of banned players are already left hanging, those of us who can play are wondering if it's even 100% safe to use skills, runes, etc. Those of us who got unbanned either through appeals, grace or temp bans expiring could be banned again for all we know. Unique content has been missed by a lot of players, our only option to see that now is Youtube. This instability in the automated ban system shouldn't be happening on this scale and wans't happening as of November.
  • rizariza
    Reactions: 2,005
    Posts: 444
    Member
    edited January 13
    Diosoth wrote: »
    I played over an hour today, but avoided runes, I'm not 100% certain those are safe to use yet. Even if I farm for max determination every day it's still going to cut close on unlocking all ranks or buying anything good in the shop, I only unlocked Hero 1 today. With the skills vanishing after, which I think is on the 22nd, it's going to be sort of useless to rank up outside of the hope of shopping and even then I may not get enough coins as I have to spend on rank ups to buy stuff from higher tiers. I've already missed the defeat of the Black Mage.

    @Ghiblee is new on staff as CM, we've been given some vague idea that Nexon is looking into the ban issue but we need something solid and soon. Lots of banned players are already left hanging, those of us who can play are wondering if it's even 100% safe to use skills, runes, etc. Those of us who got unbanned either through appeals, grace or temp bans expiring could be banned again for all we know. Unique content has been missed by a lot of players, our only option to see that now is Youtube. This instability in the automated ban system shouldn't be happening on this scale and wans't happening as of November.

    that's the problem though similar to the migration and transfer issue with bera. nothing is being thought out about or look into. also most to all who are influential are causing the issues and no one would want to lose those individuals so we need to first find out what our values and what principles we stand by only then will problems be solved. We need change but it won't happen unless the company wants to take that real step and drain the swamp.
  • FuhreakFuhreak
    Reactions: 4,720
    Posts: 952
    Member, Private Tester
    edited January 14
    In regards to off-site GMs, I have noticed that sometimes my bug reports or hacker reports get answered fairly quickly with decent human level responses.
    Other times it might get a very generic response that doesn't really even address the problem.
    One bug report I sent in wasn't addressed until over a month later, with the other I sent in about the same time still not having an answer. (Both of them with video showcasing the error.)
  • DiosothDiosoth
    Reactions: 320
    Posts: 23
    Member
    edited January 19
    While using the fire bird skill from the new determination quest, I got stuck on a slope and when the bird expired, fell through the floor. Typically falling out of bounds(which is possible on a few maps- one of the Black Heaven rooms has no actual floor and is very easy to fall down) just drops you back into the map. I was halfway afraid it was going to trigger a "suspicious map activity" ban though.

    The ban rate doesn't seem as high as it was but it's still happening, it seems. The Tengu boss fight is triggering it almost without fail and Arks are still getting randomly banned. I am not sure it's safe to use runes and have avoided them, and I'm avoiding activating my Wild Hunter turrets since failed attempts to activate that are what triggered my ban to begin with. Still it feels like a risk to play, which I'm doing to earn medals, a task that feels like a necessity after missing around 15K medals from the ban. I can in no way reach Legend rank 4, I could at best hit rank 3, I'm rank 1 now, but tiers 2 & 3 have nothing I want to buy.

    We should not feel it's a total risk to play this game. Nexon needs to fix this promptly, it's been well over a month and nothing has really been done. SOME players have been unbanned- we don't know the full percentage- yet some are getting banned again for the same stuff. That's not fixing anything. The autoban system should not have the authority to issue permanent bans at all- that should be solely left to in-game GMs. All automated bans need to be reviewed by a GM familiar with the game too, not only if the player appeals and requests a senior GM evaluate the ban. Furthermore, get rid of the whole staff sending out automated form letter replies, they aren't really doing their jobs or helping out. Sending cut & paste letters with spelling errors is not investigating anything, it's brushing off the problem while someone who likely pets paid hourly to handle that doesn't really care, if they even know anything about the game at all which they probably do not if it is an outsourced center handling it. Banning players from filing tickets is also unacceptable.

    Unbanning players isn't enough. I don't know what a "fair" compensation would be but at minimum the accounts need to be put back on ranks AND any flags for hacking removed from that account. Accounts should be in good standing, not flawed because of Nexon's errors. Unfortunately I don't know of any way to check that status, aside from asking support or registering for some event and getting declined. The website's account info doesn't tell us anything important at all, it's almost useless. I don't know what my account status even is, or if being on ranks again is a sign of being in good standing. I didn't contact anyone past my initial tickets, which were likely not read by anyone as they only got form replies. I don't think I was manually placed on ranks, again I don't know how I was because their ban policy is all bans are off ranks even if the ban expires. However if I feel I'm not in good standing I won't be buying NX, I think that's reasonable, nor do I know how to get back in good standing as contacting anyone outside of the ticket system is impossible, or if it would make a difference.

    That's just me- what about the permabans still dealing with this? What will happen to them? If they're unbanned are they still off ranks with an account not in good standing? Will they be unbanned at all?

    It's an issue not being handled particularly fast if at all. Right now the system is going too far and punishing too many legit players, which shouldn't happen at all but is far too excessive to ignore, it's being reported too much. nexon's business model also relies on happy players voluntarily giving them money to buy extra goodies in the game and alienating those players is also really bad for actual business- both in terms of those players not buying anything anymore, and the chance those players will spread bad word-of-mouth to keep potential new players away. If Nexon wants to stick to the current system that's their choice but ultimately it's going to annoy a lot of legit players as more and more get caught up in this and will affect their income when those players stop buying NX.
  • NeospectorNeospector
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    Volunteer Forum Moderator
    edited January 19
    Diosoth wrote: »
    -snip-

    The hack detection involving runes was disabled and the team was told to hold off on banning anyone with the criteria presented by the detection method, as specified here.
    Nexon is currently investigating bans related to Arks and the Tengu Boss fight, otherwise there should be absolutely no issue with training normally.

    If a player is unbanned they should be restored to the rankings. If they are not, you should try speaking to Live Chat and see if they can restore your ranking. The rankings may take some time to update. Additionally, a false ban should not affect your account being in good standing. Please note that I cannot guarantee anything about Nexon restoring your rankings, I am merely basing this off of past information.
    This does not apply if the ban expired naturally, so your character was likely found innocent and Nexon corrected their mistake. Past contests and events indicate that a false ban should not affect your ability to participate, but if you are unsure you can always ask Live Chat to verify.

    Additionally, you made quite a spectacle of adamantly refusing to contact any person beyond your initial ticket, disregarded all advice offered to you for help with resolving your issue, and made it absolutely clear that you would never play the game again, which makes me rather skeptical as towards your reasons for making these threads at all. In your own words, you "uninstalled the game and launcher, as well as blocking[sic] their access online through Windows Firewall before uninstall", as well as having modified your Windows Host files to block access to Nexon's websites.
    You further stated that you deleted all fan art you have commissioned related to Maple to the point it's unrecoverable (yet posted this thread, somehow).
    I find this extremely confusing and contradictory.

    Regardless, you should be fine.
  • DiosothDiosoth
    Reactions: 320
    Posts: 23
    Member
    edited January 20
    Anger coupled with my initial findings via Google to be less than inspiring. It looked like tickets would probably just get the stock replies if not being banned from support for "too many" tickets, and from what I've seen with other banned players who have reported on similar issues over several years, that's usually the case. Requesting a senior GM to investigate often has such a backlog that there was likely a chance it would have taken as long or longer than the ban. Others reporting on recent live chat experiences have also not been encouraging as most just get the same stock reply that the tickets give. The current ban appeal system seems set up to discourage players from further contact and from the replies they initially send a lot of players probably do give up quickly.

    It was another thing piled on top of a lot of other stuff I've had to deal with over the past few years and part of me wanted to just ignore it.

    I pulled everything offline and sat on it. The further things got into the ban wave progressing I started to develop some optimism that Nexon might fix things as it became clear this was a larger issue that was ballooning out, it was no longer just affecting me but a larger part of the player base. Even so I only resumed playing because I found myself back on ranks- if that had not been the case I probably would not have logged back in. Regarding even that the date format in the temp ban message needs to be fixed- the "day" part of a massive jumble of numbers and the time doesn't specify AM or PM or even seem to line up with server time.

    As far as the subreddit goes, they banned me from posting there and I don't see it being worth my time contacting their staff to request to be unbanned, as I doubt it would happen. I've only monitored it since to keep an eye on player ban reports but I'm not part of their community, I never was. Regarding their advice it was mostly the "keep sending tickets" stuff which would have likely resulted in more cut & paste replies or being blocked from support, and as i stated above, requesting a senior GM to review it could have taken as long as the temp ban was even for. While I went too excessive in my postings there and should have just walked off after the initial post, the damage was ultimately done, I doubt there's any way to smooth things over with them. Also with sites like Removeddit in existence I'm not sure I will want to post anything on Reddit whatsoever, as it completely disregards a user's ability to delete their own content. I may just deactivate my reddit account.
  • AggraphineAggraphine
    Reactions: 15,045
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    Member
    edited January 20
    You were banned from the subreddit for a week because you kept posting your attention-seeking "I hate nexon because this this and this AND I TURNED OFF INBOX REPLIES SO DON'T BOTHER SAYING ANYTHING" garbage. No one likes the person who makes a woe-is-me facebook update and then when someone asks what's wrong goes "I don't want to talk about it", and that's pretty much what you did. At least five times. In one day.

    I still maintain my position that you need to, for your own sake, walk away from this game. What you're doing is unhealthy. Walk away, cool down, come back when you're done throwing tantrums every other post.
  • DiosothDiosoth
    Reactions: 320
    Posts: 23
    Member
    edited January 21
    There clearly needs to be something done about the hackers/botters but the current system isn't doing it. It caught too many legit players in the net while barely touching the actual problem. Banning hackers who just make new accounts is a very brief solution. Just in Bellocan the Scrapyard Hill maps the past 24 hours have been flooded with Kanna botters. Maybe disabling Kanna & Ark creation temporarily wouldn't be a bad idea, it would block the botters from using them and give time for Nexon to fix issues with those characters. Yes they'll use other characters but those 2 are the most popular botter classes due to speed of making money.

    That said, life got in the way, having a serious life-threatening health condition that can relapse has been a serious weight on my shoulders and I suspect the chemo drugs I was given have had some other long-term side effects both mentally and physically. I well over-reacted to the situation and should have stopped right away, although I still don't believe that continued contacts to the help system would have made much difference as other players have continued to report stock replies, no investigations and even being barred from further contact. In that regard letting it drop at day one would have been best rather than blowing up and continuing to argue, and for that if anyone got upset I am sorry for what I did. Even at that I don't plan to contact the subreddit to ask to be reinstated over there, I feel damage was done in regard to my posting there further and it's best to not push that issue.

    Others are dealing with far worse as their accounts were permanently banned and many are still fighting with the system to get their accounts back. I was only unbanned as mine was 1 month and lifted on the final day automatically, and while some permabanned have been unbanned not all have been. For those still affected I hope Nexon manages to figure this out soon, I don't know what kind of backlog they're dealing with, how many actual hackers are making fake appeals to further tie up the process or what but it's a massive issue that slowly escalated into a big one, possibly several smaller issues all happening at the same time and I do feel if it's not handled properly it's going to sour the player community so Nexon needs to be careful in how they deal with it. What happened last year when Nexon responded to that issue appeared to have more of a negative impact on the players than positive.
  • AggraphineAggraphine
    Reactions: 15,045
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    Member
    edited January 21
    Why do you insist on bringing up your life-threatening illness that could relapse at any moment in damn near every single post you make? I'm sorry that you've got to deal with that, but with how much you bring it up it feels like you're using it as a crutch to excuse your behavior or you feel like nexon should unban you out of pity or something.

    If this illness of yours is so bad, why are you stressing out over a stupid mushroom game? For your own health and well-being, I believe you need to step away from everything to do with this game for an indeterminate length of time. What you're doing is not healthy, and certainly can't be helping whatever medical conditions you've got going on.
  • oldDDoldDD
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    Posts: 2
    Member
    edited January 22
    The environment is too bad right now. There are too many hackers using Ark and Kanna. I was playing Ark class before and got a false ban, but the most interesting problem is that I don' know whether I should ask for unban. Right now Ark class is too dangerous to play. Even though I can get an unban in this time, No one can promise that I won't get a false ban next time. More time and money I spend on this game, more anxious I am. Maybe I should quit this time.
  • AggraphineAggraphine
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    Member
    edited January 22
    oldDD wrote: »
    The environment is too bad right now. There are too many hackers using Ark and Kanna. I was playing Ark class before and got a false ban, but the most interesting problem is that I don' know whether I should ask for unban. Right now Ark class is too dangerous to play. Even though I can get an unban in this time, No one can promise that I won't get a false ban next time. More time and money I spend on this game, more anxious I am. Maybe I should quit this time.

    If you feel it's in your best interest to step away from the game until this mess calms down and gets sorted out, that's your decision.
    Fuhreak
  • ShokunKaYoShokunKaYo
    Reactions: 1,390
    Posts: 147
    Member
    edited February 17
    For crying out loud, just quit the game. I'm telling you, your quality of life will improve astronomically. You have been given an unique opportunity to quit this cancerous game entirely, so just take it