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Community Topic Regarding Suicide Kanna

GhibleeGhiblee
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Posts: 196
Administrator, Moderator, Nexon
edited November 7 in Announcements
Hello Maplers,

We are aware of the recent Community topic regarding Suicide Kanna and the possibility of it being a bannable offense.
We have let the teams know and are looking further into the details.
We'll update the community when we can.

Thank you.
Aseka

Comments

  • HHG1HHG1
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    edited November 8
    I think it comes down to whether abusing the exp penalty upon death to progress is something that Nexon ultimately wants to allow or not. I personally don't believe it's a healthy meta nor the intended use of the function but I'm glad we'll finally have a clear-cut answer.

    It was discussed at length here for reference: http://forums.maplestory.nexon.net/discussion/24481/suicide-kanna-issues/p2
    Fuhreak
  • WONDERGUYWONDERGUY
    Reactions: 1,955
    Posts: 254
    Member
    edited November 8
    possibility of it being a bannable offense.
    isnt allready alot of players banned for suicide after kish-kanna/furry totem changes?
  • ShadEightShadEight
    Reactions: 2,695
    Posts: 328
    Member
    edited November 8
    it's insane to this very day that you could get banned for an easily accessible game mechanic that's designed as intended
    Asekapepedarik
  • nidhddVnidhddV
    Reactions: 330
    Posts: 13
    Member
    edited November 9

    I want to know how to turn back some channels and how to report back to GM?
  • AggraphineAggraphine
    Reactions: 15,045
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    edited November 10
    ShadEight wrote: »
    it's insane to this very day that you could get banned for an easily accessible game mechanic that's designed as intended

    Because, as we all know, easily accessible game mechanics that are "designed as intended"(whatever the hell that means) are never abused by human or bot alike.
  • ShadEightShadEight
    Reactions: 2,695
    Posts: 328
    Member
    edited November 12
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    ShadEight wrote: »
    it's insane to this very day that you could get banned for an easily accessible game mechanic that's designed as intended

    Because, as we all know, easily accessible game mechanics that are "designed as intended"(whatever the hell that means) are never abused by human or bot alike.

    oh here we go again....
  • pepepepe
    Reactions: 1,810
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    Member
    edited November 12
    Ghiblee wrote: »
    We'll update the community when we can.
    ie in the next 2 years...
    WONDERGUY
  • StarryKnightStarryKnight
    Reactions: 1,180
    Posts: 90
    Member
    edited November 16
    Community Topic on Recent Kanna Bans
    We saw that players have recently been discussing about the recent Kanna bans (Community calls this practice 'Suicide Kanna’) and whether this activity should be suspended or not. Even though it is not related to the use of an illicit program, this can be considered as an activity that exploits the game feature as the maps are designed to be used by players at a certain level. Repeatedly dying on a character with the purpose to stay on the map and taking severe advantage of it is an unintended behavior, which is why we decided to maintain the suspension on the affected accounts. I hope this will clarify our stance towards the activity.

    This seems like a cruel joke. The suicide kanna is a direct result of Nexon's own actions, when they implemented a meso penalty for players above a certain level. If they are banning people for suicide kanna's, perhaps they should reconsider their stance regarding the meso penalty. Get rid of the meso/level penalty and you eliminate the reason for people to suicide in the first place.

    The fact is, the game does not have a consistent meso output throughout various level ranges. If all maps and mobs in the game produced roughly the same amount of meso per hour, there would be no reason for people to find ways to remain within certain level ranges in order to maximize meso output. Between level 140~150 at bye bye, all the way until level 235 (you can start farming Arcana at 225, but its highly unlikely you will be strong enough to farm efficiently at 225) there are very few places that will produce sufficient meso to allow reasonable game progression.

    Nexon needs to be realistic here, it costs a LOT of meso to get a strong character, and it takes a strong character to farm efficiently. A character with 3l pots and 21* gear will make a lot more meso than a person who has 2l pots and 17* gear, by eliminating suicide farming, they stacked the deck in favor of people who've already spent years farming bye bye and have strong mains that can farm efficiently in later maps. They've basically increased the size of the hump needed to be overcome in order to farm efficiently. Strong players will be able to produce meso at a reasonable rate, while weaker players will have to farm twice as long to get the same amount of meso.

    But lets keep in mind also that most maps above level 250 also tend to be poor candidates to farm meso, meaning that people who aim to reach level 275, and don't have another character just under level 250 will also be hindered in their progression, because they can no longer farm at the more efficient maps.

    All nexon has done here is alienate even more of its playerbase. They are punishing newer or weaker players, extending the amount of time they will be required to farm in order to advance. I've seen people spend more than 30 billion meso trying to get a single item to 21* and still fail, even at bye bye that was roughly 60 hours of gameplay, all wasted because they had unlucky RNG. Which means they achieved zero progress despite 60 hours of effort. Now, given their clarified stance against suicide farming, they've forced players to farm maps within their level range that have notably lower meso output, meaning at even just 20% lower meso output, they will need to spend ~90 hours for the same amount of meso, and in this specific example, that's for ZERO progression.

    Does Nexon honestly believe that's fair to players? Honestly, its a slap in the face. If they can't differentiate between legitimate players and botters, then the problem is the bot detection, not the legitimate players who happen to meso farm at bye bye. Banning them despite the fact that they're not breaking any of the boundaries programmed into the game is the wrong solution here.
    YoccudarikShadEight
  • HHG1HHG1
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    Member, Private Tester
    edited November 16
    Obviously Reboot is angry. I'm not surprised.
    It would be a good solution to limit the exp penalty upon death or remove it to force people to higher levels and thereby end the suicide abuse meta. Unfortunately this would also mean less detection of hackers that use the method.
  • YoccuYoccu
    Reactions: 610
    Posts: 5
    Member
    edited November 16
    I recently came from bera to reboot. Because I wanted to be f2p in a way.
    When I came to reboot, I knew with the amount of daily time I can put in maplestory I would v managed to get stronger slowly but surely. But now that this is announced I'm not sure HOW I have to get stronger at a descent rate.
  • darikdarik
    Reactions: 1,910
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    edited November 16
    Welp its been confirmed,suicide kannas are a bannable offense now, SO HOE THE HELL ARE WE GOING TO EARN MESOS TO GET TO 17* 2L LEGENDARY GEAR AND FORWARD NEXON?????
    Even with suiciding it takes a ridiculous amount of hours, but now??? Even longer, this is stupid.
    If ure going to bann suiciding introduce new ways to earn mesos,like exponentially increase the meso droped for high level monsters, cuz its obvious a lv 240 will neeed more mesos to progress than a 200 and a 250 even more mesos than a 240.
    You can also introduce kish node, increase base spawn rate, remove meso penalty for being low level and so on.
    Dont just take away our way of getting mesos without introducing any good alternative for it , this is a **** you to all reboot players, specially new players.
  • FuhreakFuhreak
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    edited November 16
    Feel free to hate me, I'm just here to tell Nexon that I think it's a good policy.
    I highly doubt anyone will agree with me and I'm not here to change minds.
    I just want Nexon to know that not everyone is mad about this.

    Edit: I play reboot, for extra clarity.
    HHG1Yoccuthekenturah
  • darikdarik
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    edited November 16
    Fuhreak wrote: »
    Feel free to hate me, I'm just here to tell Nexon that I think it's a good policy.
    I highly doubt anyone will agree with me and I'm not here to change minds.
    I just want Nexon to know that not everyone is mad about this.

    I dont hate u, but i dont understand y u defend a company that does nothing for the playerbase and only cares about getting more and more money.
    I understand that nexon is a company and needs money but what they dont understand is that a happy playerbase is willing to spend more money in a game than an unsatisfied one, with all the changes they make to the game it only does progession slower and more difficult with every patch they release and the end result of this is more people quitting the game and less people willing to spend money on it
    ruth02ShadEightWONDERGUY
  • YoccuYoccu
    Reactions: 610
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    Member
    edited November 16
    Fuhreak wrote: »
    Feel free to hate me, I'm just here to tell Nexon that I think it's a good policy.
    I highly doubt anyone will agree with me and I'm not here to change minds.
    I just want Nexon to know that not everyone is mad about this.

    Edit: I play reboot, for extra clarity.

    I agree with you that it is a good policy, bcs in the end byebye farming is abusing the system. But they surely should add something else then for new starting people on reboot. The paste of getting to clp will go extremely slow without byebye farming.
  • VoiceInAVoidVoiceInAVoid
    Reactions: 350
    Posts: 26
    Member
    edited November 16
    tbh I never heard about a game that forces you to level up its seems to be only at Nexon tbh, if I want to stay at certain level range that pleases to me and i have the option to do so without using anything else except the option that comes built in the game itself I don't see what am I doing wrong, if you don't wanna people to use the option of dying in purpose just remove the exp penalty after death problem solved but don't be fools that telling us that we doing something wrong wtf who the hell you think you are (Nexon)
    I will use any option that comes built in the game to serve my will and only my will of how my eyes see fits to play this game(ofc I am not talking about using hacks or bots etc... only in legit way using what the game offers and in this game has a way to lose exp just for getting killed by mobs) you think you can tell us that we can't get killed in legit way from just getting killed by mobs and stay at the same level that we want to stay on so let me tell you something you are dumb as fk because you make the problem and tell people they are the problem if you don't wanna see suicides anymore just remove the fking option instead telling people its wrong to use it for our gain interest we have the rights to use every method that comes built in the game for our pleases especially if its not 3rd program or exploit bugs or something like that if I wanna die in purpose in this game I can do it over and over again who the hell you think you are to tell me otherwise after that you better gonna tell me what items to wear in this game if u don't wanna us to use your built in option just remove the death penalty and after that if people still doing exploit's or use other programs for losing exp then tell them they breaking the boundaries of the game but you cant tell us we do it right now for just being suicide in normal way by mobs and lose exp that how you guys made it and I use it for my own benefit

    p.s we have a free will to do what we want in the boundaries of the game ofc so don't tell me otherwise you don't wanna us to use suicides just remove the option you don't let the cat guard on the milk and afterward come with complains to him that he ate the milk just remove the milk from him
  • AggraphineAggraphine
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    edited November 16
    tbh I never heard about a game that forces you to level up its seems to be only at Nexon tbh, if I want to stay at certain level range that pleases to me and i have the option to do so without using anything else except the option that comes built in the game itself I don't see what am I doing wrong, if you don't wanna people to use the option of dying in purpose just remove the exp penalty after death problem solved but don't be fools that telling us that we doing something wrong wtf who the hell you think you are (Nexon)
    I will use any option that comes built in the game to serve my will and only my will of how my eyes see fits to play this game(ofc I am not talking about using hacks or bots etc... only in legit way using what the game offers and in this game has a way to lose exp just for getting killed by mobs) you think you can tell us that we can't get killed in legit way from just getting killed by mobs and stay at the same level that we want to stay on so let me tell you something you are dumb as fk because you make the problem and tell people they are the problem if you don't wanna see suicides anymore just remove the fking option instead telling people its wrong to use it for our gain interest we have the rights to use every method that comes built in the game for our pleases especially if its not 3rd program or exploit bugs or something like that if I wanna die in purpose in this game I can do it over and over again who the hell you think you are to tell me otherwise after that you better gonna tell me what items to wear in this game if u don't wanna us to use your built in option just remove the death penalty and after that if people still doing exploit's or use other programs for losing exp then tell them they breaking the boundaries of the game but you cant tell us we do it right now for just being suicide in normal way by mobs and lose exp that how you guys made it and I use it for my own benefit

    p.s we have a free will to do what we want in the boundaries of the game ofc so don't tell me otherwise you don't wanna us to use suicides just remove the option you don't let the cat guard on the milk and afterward come with complains to him that he ate the milk just remove the milk from him

    I've never heard of a game that has any kind of incentives tied to dying repeatedly to avoid leveling up, so that's really not an argument you want to make here.

    The fact that dying repeatedly to stay within the level range for a specific area was even a thing speaks to a much larger problem this game has.
    Fuhreak
  • VoiceInAVoidVoiceInAVoid
    Reactions: 350
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    Member
    edited November 16
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    tbh I never heard about a game that forces you to level up its seems to be only at Nexon tbh, if I want to stay at certain level range that pleases to me and i have the option to do so without using anything else except the option that comes built in the game itself I don't see what am I doing wrong, if you don't wanna people to use the option of dying in purpose just remove the exp penalty after death problem solved but don't be fools that telling us that we doing something wrong wtf who the hell you think you are (Nexon)
    I will use any option that comes built in the game to serve my will and only my will of how my eyes see fits to play this game(ofc I am not talking about using hacks or bots etc... only in legit way using what the game offers and in this game has a way to lose exp just for getting killed by mobs) you think you can tell us that we can't get killed in legit way from just getting killed by mobs and stay at the same level that we want to stay on so let me tell you something you are dumb as fk because you make the problem and tell people they are the problem if you don't wanna see suicides anymore just remove the fking option instead telling people its wrong to use it for our gain interest we have the rights to use every method that comes built in the game for our pleases especially if its not 3rd program or exploit bugs or something like that if I wanna die in purpose in this game I can do it over and over again who the hell you think you are to tell me otherwise after that you better gonna tell me what items to wear in this game if u don't wanna us to use your built in option just remove the death penalty and after that if people still doing exploit's or use other programs for losing exp then tell them they breaking the boundaries of the game but you cant tell us we do it right now for just being suicide in normal way by mobs and lose exp that how you guys made it and I use it for my own benefit

    p.s we have a free will to do what we want in the boundaries of the game ofc so don't tell me otherwise you don't wanna us to use suicides just remove the option you don't let the cat guard on the milk and afterward come with complains to him that he ate the milk just remove the milk from him

    I've never heard of a game that has any kind of incentives tied to dying repeatedly to avoid leveling up, so that's really not an argument you want to make here.

    The fact that dying repeatedly to stay within the level range for a specific area was even a thing speaks to a much larger problem this game has.
    so Nexon going to tell me where to hang out in maple world I wanna stay at same maps forever this what makes my joy for playing this game what next they gonna tell you which class / which items / which names to pick

    and believe me not only in Nexon ppl use the game mechanic in smart way for they own good i have a lot of games that i was played that you can use death penalty for losing exp and stay at certain level range for ur own benefit classic example its Flyff I still think Nexon create this suicide problem and afterward come to the community and blame them for using it in smart way for they own benefit I have free will to kill my self by mobs period what comes after its Nexon made hands and it not should be bannable offense they claim it is base on what, what Tos did I violation by that I choose to kill myself in a legit way just by using game mechanic in smart way this is called by Nexon breaking the Tos ?
  • HHG1HHG1
    Reactions: 4,811
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    Member, Private Tester
    edited November 16
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    tbh I never heard about a game that forces you to level up its seems to be only at Nexon tbh, if I want to stay at certain level range that pleases to me and i have the option to do so without using anything else except the option that comes built in the game itself I don't see what am I doing wrong, if you don't wanna people to use the option of dying in purpose just remove the exp penalty after death problem solved but don't be fools that telling us that we doing something wrong wtf who the hell you think you are (Nexon)
    I will use any option that comes built in the game to serve my will and only my will of how my eyes see fits to play this game(ofc I am not talking about using hacks or bots etc... only in legit way using what the game offers and in this game has a way to lose exp just for getting killed by mobs) you think you can tell us that we can't get killed in legit way from just getting killed by mobs and stay at the same level that we want to stay on so let me tell you something you are dumb as fk because you make the problem and tell people they are the problem if you don't wanna see suicides anymore just remove the fking option instead telling people its wrong to use it for our gain interest we have the rights to use every method that comes built in the game for our pleases especially if its not 3rd program or exploit bugs or something like that if I wanna die in purpose in this game I can do it over and over again who the hell you think you are to tell me otherwise after that you better gonna tell me what items to wear in this game if u don't wanna us to use your built in option just remove the death penalty and after that if people still doing exploit's or use other programs for losing exp then tell them they breaking the boundaries of the game but you cant tell us we do it right now for just being suicide in normal way by mobs and lose exp that how you guys made it and I use it for my own benefit

    p.s we have a free will to do what we want in the boundaries of the game ofc so don't tell me otherwise you don't wanna us to use suicides just remove the option you don't let the cat guard on the milk and afterward come with complains to him that he ate the milk just remove the milk from him

    I've never heard of a game that has any kind of incentives tied to dying repeatedly to avoid leveling up, so that's really not an argument you want to make here.

    The fact that dying repeatedly to stay within the level range for a specific area was even a thing speaks to a much larger problem this game has.
    so Nexon going to tell me where to hang out in maple world I wanna stay at same maps forever this what makes my joy for playing this game what next they gonna tell you which class / which items / which names to pick

    and believe me not only in Nexon ppl use the game mechanic in smart way for they own good i have a lot of games that i was played that you can use death penalty for losing exp and stay at certain level range for ur own benefit classic example its Flyff I still think Nexon create this suicide problem and afterward come to the community and blame them for using it in smart way for they own benefit I have free will to kill my self by mobs period what comes after its Nexon made hands and it not should be bannable offense they claim it is base on what, what Tos did I violation by that I choose to kill myself in a legit way just by using game mechanic in smart way this is called by Nexon breaking the Tos ?

    You're blowing this way out of proportion. You're free to "hang out" in any map that you have normal access to. But that place just can't be the most profitable for you, for all eternity. That would be poor game design. Nobody would ever move on to other content, which is the problem they've seen now with suicide kannas.
    You absolutely have "free will" to abuse in-game mechanics in a "smart" way (which is how most exploits are born), but it's also Nexon's right to say "hey, this is not what we intended for the game, don't do that or you will get banned". You still have free will to continue to do it and suffer the consequences, by all means, go ahead.

    They could put other measures in place to ensure that players absolutely can't do it (like limiting exp loss or removing it), but then it could possibly mean they don't catch as many actual hackers via that autoban or that they'd need to make other changes, to safety charms for example.
    Now that they've made it known that it's not intended use of the function and definitely a bannable offense, it's up to you to abide by those rules.

    I do think that players who were caught up in suicide-bans prior to this announcement should be released though.
  • FuhreakFuhreak
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    Member, Private Tester
    edited November 16
    what Tos did I violation by that I choose to kill myself in a legit way just by using game mechanic in smart way this is called by Nexon breaking the Tos ?

    This part.
    You will not use the Services in any manner that, in Nexon’s sole discretion, is unlawful or could damage, disable, overburden, or impair the Services or interfere with Nexon’s or any others’ use and enjoyment of the Services. Without limiting the generality of the foregoing, prohibited conduct includes the following, subject to applicable law

    This part.
    Engaging in any other conduct that, in Nexon’s sole judgment, exposes us, any of our users, or any other third party to any liability, damages, or detriment of any type.

    And this part.
    WE MAY WITHHOLD, SUSPEND, MODIFY, OR TERMINATE YOUR ACCESS TO THE SERVICES FOR ANY OR NO REASON AT ANY TIME WITHOUT NOTICE UNLESS OTHERWISE REQUIRED BY APPLICABLE LAW

    https://support-maplestory.nexon.net/hc/en-us/articles/360000699203-Terms-of-Use

    Just because something isn't explicitly stated doesn't mean Nexon can't ban for it.
    This isn't Nexon being evil either, mind you. You'll find similar terms for all services, not just games.
    If Nexon deems it a bannable offense, it is. In the end, it is Nexon's game to do whatever they want with.
    They obviously should want to keep players happy as much as they can, but sometimes a company feels like they know what is best for their product.
  • kanrojiekanrojie
    Reactions: 210
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    Member
    edited November 16
    no matter what, Nexon is doing something by hurting its playerbase
    WONDERGUY