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It's about time...

TorippiTorippi
Reactions: 1,540
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edited September 2017 in General Chat
...that Nexon implement an in-game anti-botting feature. Such as a capcha that will pop up every 30 minutes or so, or maybe a user command for legit players to use when they suspect a user is botting. It's not an impossible task either since I've seen private servers having it before.

Comments

  • 엘소드엘소드
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    edited September 2017
    Oh... you mean the lie detector item that was eventually removed because the majority of people abused it to grief and steal maps.

    The community can't be trusted to police itself when provided the tools, so the ball was taken home because of it. If you play Combat Arms, it's no different from Elite Mod players kicking you from the room because you killed them too much.
    DarkPassengerFuschia
  • TorippiTorippi
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    edited September 2017
    엘소드 wrote: »
    Oh... you mean the lie detector item that was eventually removed because the majority of people abused it to grief and steal maps.

    The community can't be trusted to police itself when provided the tools, so the ball was taken home because of it. If you play Combat Arms, it's no different from Elite Mod players kicking you from the room because you killed them too much.

    When was it implemented? Because I don't remember it being in game at all.
    There are ways to prevent abuse of the feature. For example, you can only be lie-detect by the same user once every hour or so.
    I don't see how this feature can be use to steal maps because as far as I can see, there's not even a KSing rule in GMS. If there is one in place, I doubt this would be the primary abuse because anyone can steal a map without the help of a tool.
    Stopping for a few seconds to answer the detection doesn't take great effort unless you don't actively play the game (aka key-weighting, auto-program).

    I don't play that game so I don't know the rules of PKing or such. But if there's no rules about PKing and mods do that because they felt annoyed, it's just abuse of authority.
    nomicidyl
  • nomicidylnomicidyl
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    edited September 2017
    Although I agree with most of what you say, there is indeed a KSing rule in GMS. It's considered a form of harassment and people can be reported for it.
  • LilyflowerLilyflower
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    edited September 2017
    we used to have lie dectector from long time ago but its been removed due to abuse of it :/ the lie dectector really helps against botters.
  • LolaBunnyLolaBunny
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    edited September 2017
    엘소드 wrote: »
    Oh... you mean the lie detector item that was eventually removed because the majority of people abused it to grief and steal maps.

    The community can't be trusted to police itself when provided the tools, so the ball was taken home because of it. If you play Combat Arms, it's no different from Elite Mod players kicking you from the room because you killed them too much.
    Despite it being abused, It did help clear out botters, just nexon designed it so poorly. What they could of done is make it so the person getting targeted once by detector is immune to any others for about 5-10 minutes. This would both solve the legit players abuse and botting.
    LilyflowerTorippi
  • TorippiTorippi
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    edited September 2017
    nomicidyl wrote: »
    Although I agree with most of what you say, there is indeed a KSing rule in GMS. It's considered a form of harassment and people can be reported for it.

    Oh, is that so? Then it's my bad. As I cannot find a copy of the ToS for (specifically) the game nor does the in-game report feature has "Kill Stealing" as one of the reason, I just thought there isn't a definite rule about it.
    Despite it being abused, It did help clear out botters, just nexon designed it so poorly. What they could of done is make it so the person getting targeted once by detector is immune to any others for about 5-10 minutes. This would both solve the legit players abuse and botting.
    This. Heck, I don't mind if there is a limit to how many time one user can lie-detect others in one day (similar to how the report feature has a 10-reports limit). Overall, I see more benefit than harm with this feature.
  • L4d2jpnL4d2jpn
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    edited September 2017
    Training a squishy character in a place where I could get 1-2 shotted. Someone walks in and lie detects me while I'm training.

    Any Arcane River area and an anti-pot mob spawns and I'm stuck with a popup.

    The lie detectors were a good idea back then but as was mentioned it was abused to the point where you were just answering questions 24/7 rather than training.
  • ManiOhManiOh
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    edited September 2017
    well they can add cooldown for each report you can do + a week ban or even perm ban if do many false reports (like be super strict with those that do try abuse without much talk)

    also a certian lvl + quest done /days acc been activ /a minimum amount of nx ever used etc etc as a minimum can be added to be able to use that report system

    am sure many more things can be done if they want ...

    and ofc there is no best security even modern banks are geting hacked but that dosnt mean nexon should leav all the doors open and let this crazy amount of hackers freely




    Torippi
  • TorippiTorippi
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    edited September 2017
    L4d2jpn wrote: »
    Training a squishy character in a place where I could get 1-2 shotted. Someone walks in and lie detects me while I'm training.

    Any Arcane River area and an anti-pot mob spawns and I'm stuck with a popup.

    The lie detectors were a good idea back then but as was mentioned it was abused to the point where you were just answering questions 24/7 rather than training.

    Again, this can be rectify with a cooldown in place.
  • ManiOhManiOh
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    edited September 2017
    Torippi wrote: »
    L4d2jpn wrote: »
    Training a squishy character in a place where I could get 1-2 shotted. Someone walks in and lie detects me while I'm training.

    Any Arcane River area and an anti-pot mob spawns and I'm stuck with a popup.

    The lie detectors were a good idea back then but as was mentioned it was abused to the point where you were just answering questions 24/7 rather than training.

    Again, this can be rectify with a cooldown in place.

    or can be solved like this
    lie deteror should come with ign of the sender 1-3 false send (1month of use that system then 3month then perm acc ban )

    also as i said lvl/quest progresss/activ days playing /nx used/ should be minimum to be able use and prevent new acc and such thing to abuse

    basically people would face real bad consequences and lose their mains if abuse the system
  • LolaBunnyLolaBunny
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    edited September 2017
    ManiOh wrote: »
    Torippi wrote: »
    L4d2jpn wrote: »
    Training a squishy character in a place where I could get 1-2 shotted. Someone walks in and lie detects me while I'm training.

    Any Arcane River area and an anti-pot mob spawns and I'm stuck with a popup.

    The lie detectors were a good idea back then but as was mentioned it was abused to the point where you were just answering questions 24/7 rather than training.

    Again, this can be rectify with a cooldown in place.

    or can be solved like this
    lie deteror should come with ign of the sender 1-3 false send (1month of use that system then 3month then perm acc ban )

    also as i said lvl/quest progresss/activ days playing /nx used/ should be minimum to be able use and prevent new acc and such thing to abuse

    basically people would face real bad consequences and lose their mains if abuse the system
    L4d2jpn wrote: »
    Training a squishy character in a place where I could get 1-2 shotted. Someone walks in and lie detects me while I'm training.

    Any Arcane River area and an anti-pot mob spawns and I'm stuck with a popup.

    The lie detectors were a good idea back then but as was mentioned it was abused to the point where you were just answering questions 24/7 rather than training.

    Or they could make it so you are invincible to attacks while solving the lie detector and immune to any other detectors for at least 10 minutes. It isn't hard to fix the problems, Nexon just chose to take the lazy way and remove them without thinking straight on other ways.
  • ManiOhManiOh
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    edited September 2017
    ManiOh wrote: »
    Torippi wrote: »
    L4d2jpn wrote: »
    Training a squishy character in a place where I could get 1-2 shotted. Someone walks in and lie detects me while I'm training.

    Any Arcane River area and an anti-pot mob spawns and I'm stuck with a popup.

    The lie detectors were a good idea back then but as was mentioned it was abused to the point where you were just answering questions 24/7 rather than training.

    Again, this can be rectify with a cooldown in place.

    or can be solved like this
    lie deteror should come with ign of the sender 1-3 false send (1month of use that system then 3month then perm acc ban )

    also as i said lvl/quest progresss/activ days playing /nx used/ should be minimum to be able use and prevent new acc and such thing to abuse

    basically people would face real bad consequences and lose their mains if abuse the system
    L4d2jpn wrote: »
    Training a squishy character in a place where I could get 1-2 shotted. Someone walks in and lie detects me while I'm training.

    Any Arcane River area and an anti-pot mob spawns and I'm stuck with a popup.

    The lie detectors were a good idea back then but as was mentioned it was abused to the point where you were just answering questions 24/7 rather than training.

    Or they could make it so you are invincible to attacks while solving the lie detector and immune to any other detectors for at least 10 minutes. It isn't hard to fix the problems, Nexon just chose to take the lazy way and remove them without thinking straight on other ways.

    yesh there is allways soulution for evrything and am sure there are much better solution if they want to implement but even some "smll" are wellcome to reduce to amount

    and notihng its 100% but we all agree that this amount of hackers and ways people are able to get to hacking its not acceptable
  • L4d2jpnL4d2jpn
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    edited September 2017
    Are you willing to give Nexon access to your personal info?

    That's what it's going to take in order to stop botters, hackers. One account and one account only, you lose it and you're out.

    That way you can spend less time and money on things like black cipher, game guard, Ng which just eat up unnecessary CPU resources and are part of the reason why things are laggy in game.

    Trying to make some anti-afk measures for legit players are only going to harm the legit players. A hacker is going to find or make a bypass once they know what all the possible answers are and ID's they are tied to. A legit player is going to have to answer questions at whatever cooldown rate you specify. The harder/longer the question, the more a legit player is going to be pissed that their 2x coupon time is being wasted.

    I mean take the recent rune changes. They sit there long enough and you get no exp/drop. Something that hackers already had auto rune activations for.

    I'm not saying I'm for botters or hackers. I'm saying any possible solutions we suggest are a major inconvenience to the legit playerbase and a minor one for the other crowd.
  • TorippiTorippi
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    edited September 2017
    L4d2jpn wrote: »
    Are you willing to give Nexon access to your personal info?

    That's what it's going to take in order to stop botters, hackers. One account and one account only, you lose it and you're out.

    That way you can spend less time and money on things like black cipher, game guard, Ng which just eat up unnecessary CPU resources and are part of the reason why things are laggy in game.

    Trying to make some anti-afk measures for legit players are only going to harm the legit players. A hacker is going to find or make a bypass once they know what all the possible answers are and ID's they are tied to. A legit player is going to have to answer questions at whatever cooldown rate you specify. The harder/longer the question, the more a legit player is going to be pissed that their 2x coupon time is being wasted.

    I mean take the recent rune changes. They sit there long enough and you get no exp/drop. Something that hackers already had auto rune activations for.

    I'm not saying I'm for botters or hackers. I'm saying any possible solutions we suggest are a major inconvenience to the legit playerbase and a minor one for the other crowd.
    Exactly why do we need to provide personal info? We don't have to make the game like East Asia gaming community where they made it that only one person can have one account. This thread doesn't remotely mention anything about making the game not laggy or restricting players to a single account. This is about reducing the number of hackers that are hogging maps from legit player (e.g. Mu Lung maps with map-wise attacks and teleporting characters).

    It's not a feature meant to punish afk players or legit player, it's a feature meant to target botters. I'm not saying Nexon has to implement something that weed out hackers completely as this can never be possible. I know that hackers can always find a loophole around of things but this will slow down the amount of bottings. Really, the feature doesn't have to be that complicated. Simply type in a string of 6-8 digits number that pop up take less than 5 seconds.

    If there is a wait time in between of how often a player can get lie-detect by other players, this won't be an issue at all. If you're on a 1-hour x2 coupon and you can only get lie-detect once every 15-20 minutes or so and it only take you 5s each time, I really don't see a "major inconvenience" like this unless you're not actively playing..
  • L4d2jpnL4d2jpn
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    edited September 2017
    Because botters and hackers generally tend to use botting accounts to then do transactions with so that they can fund their main chars right?...

    With how easy it is to make a new account in gms, you limit the account availability to one per person and you create this fear of losing their account.

    If you instead create all these in game anti-botting features it becomes a "good thing" for a day or a week until botters/hackers find bypasses then it becomes a "wtf were you thinking nexon" and stays that way because the former crowd goes right back to doing what they were doing without a care in the world.

    "But give people God mode for when they're answering question or after they answer the question." Ok, let's give hackers a resource to utilize that player state to legit Godmode through anything.

    You limit the account creation to one per person and you force team play, you force legit play and you can create a better playing experience for people because your rootkit isn't constantly scanning people's PCs for anything that could possibly be a third party software modding your official files. The problem? Do you really trust nexon with your personal data? I don't.
  • SlicedTimeSlicedTime
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    edited September 2017
    L4d2jpn wrote: »
    Because botters and hackers generally tend to use botting accounts to then do transactions with so that they can fund their main chars right?...

    With how easy it is to make a new account in gms, you limit the account availability to one per person and you create this fear of losing their account.

    If you instead create all these in game anti-botting features it becomes a "good thing" for a day or a week until botters/hackers find bypasses then it becomes a "wtf were you thinking nexon" and stays that way because the former crowd goes right back to doing what they were doing without a care in the world.

    "But give people God mode for when they're answering question or after they answer the question." Ok, let's give hackers a resource to utilize that player state to legit Godmode through anything.

    You limit the account creation to one per person and you force team play, you force legit play and you can create a better playing experience for people because your rootkit isn't constantly scanning people's PCs for anything that could possibly be a third party software modding your official files. The problem? Do you really trust nexon with your personal data? I don't.

    How exactly would you go about doing that? The only way I can think of would be attaching the created account to a valid bank account or a valid national identification number. I'm farily sure that a system like that would be all sorts of trouble, since many countries probably have different laws regarding all that stuff. In addition, I wouldn't feel very confident in knowing that Nexon knew my ID number, since there have been Nexon database leaks before.