[New Users] Please note that all new users need to be approved before posting. This process can take up to 24 hours. Thank you for your patience.

Transparency on Probability Rates for RNG features

RenniRenni
Reactions: 2,635
Posts: 60
Member
edited October 6 in Suggestions, Feedback, and Requests
Many MapleStory players spend a significant amount of money on loot boxes/RNG features in the game in hopes of obtaining a particular reward, never knowing what exactly are the chances of obtaining that reward. With the recent Philosopher's Book item, some users have spent up to $1,000 and more, believing they will eventually receive the much-sought-after Frenzy Totem. Because the obtainability rates are not made public to players, they are often under the misguided belief that the reward they want has a higher obtainability rate than what is truth. The only way players are able to estimate the probability is after the community as a whole spends a huge sum of money, and then compares the rewards received and items/spins used. Therefore I, along with some of my fellow players, would like to propose to Nexon to publicize the obtainability rates of rewards from RNG features. We feel players deserve to know the chances of obtaining each item before deciding whether or not to spend their money on such features.

The terms RNG (random number generator) and loot boxes both refer to features in a game where players can spend money for chances to obtain a random reward from a selection of virtual goods. MapleStory contains several of these features, such as the Gachapon, Marvel Machine, Philosopher Book, hair and face coupons, style boxes, and more.

The idea of transparency for obtainability rates is definitely not a new concept. It has been a system that is commonly seen in other recent games with loot boxes, especially ones that have origins overseas in Asian countries, where the gaming culture is much more expansive. China and South Korea have both required that games show probability rates for their loot boxes. In some western countries, including the United States, this practice is still currently being debated. While at the moment there are no laws in the U.S. requiring rates to be publicized, Asian countries have seen the possible extent to which loot boxes can negatively affect people immersed in the gaming culture, and thus have made regulations to combat those effects. Therefore, as the gaming culture continues to grow in other countries, future regulations regarding loot boxes may not be unlikely.

Someone might wonder, “Why should Nexon consider making obtainability rates public when it is not required by law and could potentially harm its profits?” Just like many other suggestions, making obtainability rates transparent is a sentiment that a lot of people who play this game share, and they feel this suggestion needs to be implemented. They feel that, because probability rates are not given, they have been misled to believe some rewards from these RNG features are more easily obtainable than fact. It is true that Nexon may lose some of its revenue by revealing the probability rates of the rewards to its players, but no company should have to profit off the misconceptions that players have over the contents of its game. When widespread misconceptions happen, it is expected that those misconceptions are handled and information is clarified so that the misconceptions cease to exist.

In a previous suggestion, one of the volunteer moderators, AKradian, made the following statement in regards to hair and face coupons:
Furthermore, according to data released by KMS and CMS, not all styles have an equal chance to appear. The new or highly desired ones are lower probability than each of the old or unpopular ones.
This statement brought to light a reality that I was not informed of until recently. In the past, I usually received the hair or face I wanted, generally a new style, within 2-4 coupons, so I was under the impression for a long time that the probability for each style in a rotation was roughly the same. Even if one style was significantly more rare, I did not expect it would take over 15 coupons, until I used a total of 22 coupons to finally obtain the Sakura Hair from the CardCaptor Sakura crossover. When talking about rewards that are purely cosmetic, each player may have their own opinion of what style they consider “highly desired”, and therefore players will have differing perceptions regarding a style’s obtainability rate. Also, notice the data mentioned was released by both KMS and CMS, but GMS has yet to release any data regarding probability rates. That is why it is important for Nexon to consider publicizing these rates in GMS.
0?showears=false&showLefEars=false&showHighLefEars=undefined&resize=1&name=&flipX=false&bgColor=0,0,0,0

My peers and I believe Nexon has a responsibility to make these obtainability rates transparent. After all, because obtainability rates are not made public, players don’t all initially agree on the rarity of the rewards. It is only through a community effort, after we have spent our money and combined information on the rewards we have received, that players get a general idea of what rewards are more rare, and to what extent. We shouldn’t need to spend our money first in order to find out what to expect. That potential difference in revenue that Nexon might lose from publicizing probability rates is caused by the misconceptions players have on the rates, and those misconceptions are caused not by the players themselves but by Nexon, because there is no initial consensus to the rarity of each reward since Nexon continues to not disclose its probability rates.

We would like to see the application of publicized probability rates for the following features in the game:
● Features that require or encourage the spending of NX or Maple Points:
○ Rewards from Marvel Machine, Gachapon, Philosopher Book, Premium Surprise Style Boxes, and any other similar features
○ Rewards from Hair and Face coupons
○ Tier-up for Potentials from cubes
○ Lines for Inner Ability and Potentials on equipment
○ Rewards from daily MVP box
○ Any other potential features not mentioned
● Other features that could be considered:
○ Drops from defeating Monsters and Bosses
○ Rewards from boxes obtained by defeating Bosses
○ Skills from Nodestones
○ Magnificent Soul
○ Rewards from seasonal/durational events
○ Rewards from Exploration with Monster Collection
○ Any other potential features not mentioned

I have included features to consider that don’t really require nor encourage the spending of NX or Maple Points because I feel, when we are talking about probability rate transparency, these other features should also be mentioned because transparency for them would greatly enhance the gaming experience for players without necessarily impacting Nexon’s profits.

Please support this suggestion if you would like to see probability rates be made available to players. Feel free to give your own opinion or suggestions related to this topic, or share some of the stories you have about spending NX or Maple Points for a reward that seemed to have a lower obtainability rate than expected.

strawisherMugetsu4x5PLSlicedTimeArwooTsundereKyubumbertyrLyedenSqueakySammiKuroki7SharionStar
  1. Do you think Nexon should publicize the obtainability rates of various RNG rewards?33 votes
    1. Yes
       91% (30 votes)
    2. No
       9% (3 votes)

Comments

  • Mugetsu4x5PLMugetsu4x5PL
    Reactions: 410
    Posts: 2
    Member
    edited October 6
    Yeah recently I bought a lot of philosopher's books and I got only junk. I know that Nexon needs money as company, everyone needs but as company they should make easier to get rare items for those who spend a lot of money. Or just add that items to CS for 1000k nx and people will buy it :/
    SharionStar
  • EnokumoEnokumo
    Reactions: 1,000
    Posts: 105
    Member
    edited October 9
    If Nexon is ever going to be transparent with their actions then we can talk about specific things. Sorry for sounding so negative but you also know how they do not communicate to us, the recent events with content removal confirms my statement and it sort of sucks the developer do not pay attention to what we have to say.
  • ArwooArwoo
    Reactions: 17,265
    Posts: 493
    Administrator, Nexon
    edited October 9
    I'd like to thank you for putting this detailed post together. While many may refer to past track records and claim this suggestion to be a futile one, I would say this is a very reasonable request.
    RenniSharionStar
  • DodochDodoch
    Reactions: 840
    Posts: 24
    Member
    edited October 9
    Arwoo wrote: »
    I'd like to thank you for putting this detailed post together. While many may refer to past track records and claim this suggestion to be a futile one, I would say this is a very reasonable request.

    Because its a reasonable request is what makes it futile with nexon.
    SadVirginSlicedTime
  • ArwooArwoo
    Reactions: 17,265
    Posts: 493
    Administrator, Nexon
    edited October 9
    Dodoch wrote: »
    Arwoo wrote: »
    I'd like to thank you for putting this detailed post together. While many may refer to past track records and claim this suggestion to be a futile one, I would say this is a very reasonable request.

    Because its a reasonable request is what makes it futile with nexon.

    yikes
  • VinsaneVinsane
    Reactions: 1,740
    Posts: 64
    Member
    edited October 9
    Spoiler Alert : They do not have to publicly disclose information involving how their random generators function.
  • RenniRenni
    Reactions: 2,635
    Posts: 60
    Member
    edited October 10
    Vinsane wrote: »
    Spoiler Alert : They do not have to publicly disclose information involving how their random generators function.

    I gave reasons why they should disclose this information even though they're not required to by law. If Arwoo is able to say it's a reasonable request, then they would have to give other reasons why they won't consider it, not just because it's not required by law.
  • VinsaneVinsane
    Reactions: 1,740
    Posts: 64
    Member
    edited October 10
    Renni wrote: »
    Vinsane wrote: »
    Spoiler Alert : They do not have to publicly disclose information involving how their random generators function.

    I gave reasons why they should disclose this information even though they're not required to by law. If Arwoo is able to say it's a reasonable request, then they would have to give other reasons why they won't consider it, not just because it's not required by law.

    Just like how you can ask your kind of question(s), they can decide on how to answer it.
    Arwoo is a communicator between the company and community.

    He is saying, it's reasonable for him, but maybe not for management.

  • RenniRenni
    Reactions: 2,635
    Posts: 60
    Member
    edited October 11
    Vinsane wrote: »

    Just like how you can ask your kind of question(s), they can decide on how to answer it.
    Arwoo is a communicator between the company and community.

    He is saying, it's reasonable for him, but maybe not for management.

    Okay. You're basically stating what everyone knows. It's called a suggestion for a reason. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'm very much aware that even some of the best suggestions are simply just suggestions that end up not being implemented. However, I feel confident about the points I've made, and while I am not expecting my suggestion to be implemented, I'm curious to see their official response. No company would ever outright say, "We are not required to by law, so we won't do it." That would paint a poor picture of the company. If it was required by law, we wouldn't need to suggest it.
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
    Reactions: 8,070
    Posts: 2,573
    Member
    edited October 11
    My guess is, if they disclose how low a probability for an item you're after, those after the item won't be motivated to keep buying the boxes or spins, due to the low probability.

    But I would like to see the intended probability of acquiring an item, because if I want the item bad enough, a low probability shouldn't stop me from trying.
  • AKradianAKradian
    Reactions: 33,845
    Posts: 4,970
    Volunteer Forum Moderator, Private Tester
    edited October 11
    My guess is, if they disclose how low a probability for an item you're after, those after the item won't be motivated to keep buying the boxes or spins, due to the low probability.

    But I would like to see the intended probability of acquiring an item, because if I want the item bad enough, a low probability shouldn't stop me from trying.

    In my country, lotteries are required to disclose the chances of winning. The chance is, of course, very very low.
    Doesn't stop people from buying tickets. Everybody hopes to be the lucky one.
    RenniSlicedTime
  • BiohazardBiohazard
    Reactions: 550
    Posts: 7
    Member
    edited October 11
    Honestly surprised this hasn't already been implemented.
    A lot of games have RNG rates posted or at least have some way for members to test chances via PTR and get an average of the rates themselves.
    RenniSlicedTime
  • VinsaneVinsane
    Reactions: 1,740
    Posts: 64
    Member
    edited October 12
    @Renni Fair point, as long you're aware in the end, it's the companies ultimately decisions on disclosing personal or private company information.

    @AKradian Comparing a lottery ticket to nexons RNG, shares nothing in common besides both being considered gambling.

    You can guarantee yourself a winner by purchasing all the combinations available.
    For example ; The Powerball, by purchasing the exact total of 292,201,338 ticket.
    As well In my state you can be declared "anonymous" after winning the lottery.

    Unless nexons is willing to share the amount of Money spent to guarantee yourself say a "Frenzy totem" from a philosopher books.
    Then your comparison makes sense.
    It's gambling in the end and the old man saying goes, "The house always win".

  • BeefBeef
    Reactions: 935
    Posts: 50
    Member
    edited October 14
    TLDR but does it also include a list of obtainable items too or just % of the halo products