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Lets talk about beast tamers.

KingofFurriesKingofFurries
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edited November 2017 in Suggestions, Feedback, and Requests
So, lately I've been hearing a lot of talk about beast tamers, and as an official beast tamer main (I've been a beast tamer main since release) I figured I'd give my opinion.

So, lets talk about what's bad about beast tamers. The most common thing I hear about bast tamer is how they are a weak class and have no damage - this is only partially true.
It's not necessarily that the damage per line is weak, it's the lack of lines.
- Bear mode actually has decent damage per line - the thing is bear mode doesn't do many lines. Fishy slap only does 1 line and furious strikes only does 4 lines. not to mention they are slow (another issue i'll get to).
- Leopard isn't quite as strong as bear (maybe like 75% as strong) but i feel it has the lines. if leopard was as strong as bear i feel it could be decent.
- Hawk mode is the one i see brought up often. While hawk mode is absolutely atrocious (literally does 0 damage, like 10% the damage as bear) don't let it be the impression of beast tamer as a whole. Hawk does actually have some good points (which i'll get to later).
- And then there's cat mode, which IMO is like a decent bishop. The damage isn't terrible (like 50% of bear) and the buffs are quite nice (but not as strong as bishop) but it does lack lines as well. (again, will get to later)

So let's start with beast tamer as a whole, the big thing that needs to be reworked is skill cast delay (my god is it terrible). A big example being the level 170 hyperskill - it takes like 3 seconds to "charge" it, 3 seconds to use it, and like another 4 seconds to finish it; keep in mind there are no iframes, you take damage the whole time. In what way is this skill possibly useful!? What's worse is the damage only takes like 3 seconds to apply, you finish doing damage halfway through the animation. let's also go ahead and mention that beast tamer does not get the skill "echo of hero"

Now, we'll get to bear, I feel the damage per line on bear is fair (paw swipe does 400% + 50% from furious strikes, majestic trumpet does 210% + 140% DoT with billowing trumpet, furious strikes does 275%, fishy slap does 480%, table flip does 500% (those are the main skills)) , but lets talk about what can be changed to add better lines and more mobility.
- First, I would improve furious strikes. I would make it a standalone skill, and lower the cast delay. A lot of people say to make it move-able, which definitely would be nice, but i feel isn't necessary. Maybe if it had a few more lines, was its own skill, and had a decent cast delay I can almost see myself jumping around and attacking with it, similar to a nightlord kinda maybe. (Don't forget to give it its own node)
- Second I would improve fishy slap. This is definitely a useful skill IMO but it could be better, If fishy slap was changed to be more like phantom's tempest (3 lines and move-able) I feel it could be a good source of mobility for bear. being able to move and attack in bosses is nice - something bear can't do currently.`
- Last i would improve table flip. While the concept is nice (give the class a full map attack like most), its cast delay is to slow; it should be changed to have a delay similar to others (blizzard from I/L mage comes to mind). Would definitely make it more usable.

Next, lets talk about leopard. While I can't list actual damage numbers anymore, ( i took my Sp out of leopard and put it into hawk) I can say when I used leopard, I did about 75% of what I was hitting in bear. If leopard damage output was more similar to bear - say, 80m/line on bear to 80m/line on leopard - it would definitely be more useful. I feel the class has enough mobility and lines to be good, just it can't produce the damage. The only skills I really think need a change are three point pounce, and party time.
Three point pounce has, what i think, is a stupid cooldown. It's 2 seconds, like what's the point? It's low enough to where you can spam it, but it's a cooldown so you can't spam it. I think it should have no cooldown, it's a really usefull and good skill, just the 2 second cooldown ruins it. The second skill, party time, is similar to table flip. The cast delay just ruins it, it needs to be lowered.

Now we'll look at hawk, I don't even know where to begin, seriously. Let's look at the good parts, hawk has some of the best mobility in the game. Eka glider is an amazing and fun skill, and vertical draft / double flash jump is great. I do tend to use eka express as a return to town, and it's fun to fly in town. But as far as attacks go, SMH

Honestly, i never really used Hawk for attacking, so my knowledge is quite lacking. Just, for god's sake, INCREASE THE SKILL%
CwXsxd6.png

Second to last is cat. While the buffs are decent, they're not as good as a bishops, and the attacks are pretty lame. The damage % isn't too bad (300% for maxed fire! kitty) but it's only 3 lines and isn't that quick. Not a whole lot to say about cat tbh. A few things would be to A) change meow blue card. it gives flat DEF, like wtf? who even uses DEF. it should be changed to something more useful, like IED% or boss% or maybe even buff% (is there a buff% buff?). B ) change friends of arby to be 50% like Hs. Right now it's only 30%, which, when it comes down to it people would prefer a bishop instead. and C) what does the final skill even do? It's completely useless (I think it's broke? no idea)

And last, we have 5th job. First, is chump charge, which, is just awfully executed. I get what the devs were trying to make, but it's just terrible. The whole 'combo" thing is annoying, the damage sucks, and half the time it doesn't work right. Imo to make it better, the "combo" should be taken away and the damage should be increased to be similar for each animal. I will say, cub calvary is like a godsend. Hands down it's the best skill beast tamer has, I love it to death it literally increased DPS by like 2x, probably even more.
Let's also mention boost nodes, they're absolutely terrible. First off, all the animal skills are mixed together, so half the time you get a node where it has 2+ animals on it which makes it a pain to find a decent trio, let alone a perfect trio. if i were to redo them, i'd make it so nodes only use 1 animal (I.E. you select a bear node, only bear skills, etc. etc.) Second, the boost% should be changed. For other classes, first job skills get like a 7% increase while 4th job skills get a 2% in crease or something. beast tamer on the other hand, all nodes only get a 2% boost. I can understand why it's like this (no set job ranks; 1st job, second job, etc) but is it fair? Also, lets mention there's a boost node for deep breath, AND really deep breath. Literally really deep breath is the SAME SKILL just higher skill damage%.

Well, this was my report on beast tamer. I mainly use Bear for attacking, cat for some buffs, and Hawk for the mobility, so i wasn't super knowledgeable on some things, but based off of my experience these are some changes that would be nice to see. I also think it would be nice to be able to use skills from all animals at the same time. This would also add an increase to mobility/mobbing/ and stuff. I guess it would clog the keyboard pretty quick, but I can see it being useful in somewhere like bosses where you're attacking with bear, then use a leopard skill (probably thunder dash) to move away from the bosses attack. Could also be quite useful in mobbing. Maybe have it to where you choose a main animal mode (for passives and stuff) then have it use skills and buffs from other animals (actives). this could also save 4 keyboard layouts which, with the amount of skills Beast tamer has, would be useful

Also, if beast tamer could keep the most recent animal mode after death that'd be great, it's pretty annoying in bosses. (i have a post about this already).

Comments

  • OdysseyTwoOdysseyTwo
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    edited November 2017
    Another problem with Bear Mode is that the Bear Assault buff is literally Hero's Enrage, Mihile's Roiling Soul, and Battle Mage's Battle Rage, but with a duration and a cooldown, which is stupid, because Enrage, Roiling Soul, and Battle Rage all originally had a duration and a cooldown (though Enrage didn't have a cooldown, but activating originally required consuming all 10 Combo Orbs), before they all got changed into toggle skills. Bear Assault should be a toggle skill, so that it lines up with other Enrage-type skills. Also, Dumb Luck should be 100% Stance, so that it lines up with Mihile and Battle Mage's Power Stance.
  • KingofFurriesKingofFurries
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    edited November 2017
    OdysseyTwo wrote: »
    Another problem with Bear Mode is that the Bear Assault buff is literally Hero's Enrage, Mihile's Roiling Soul, and Battle Mage's Battle Rage, but with a duration and a cooldown, which is stupid, because Enrage, Roiling Soul, and Battle Rage all originally had a duration and a cooldown (though Enrage didn't have a cooldown, but activating originally required consuming all 10 Combo Orbs), before they all got changed into toggle skills. Bear Assault should be a toggle skill, so that it lines up with other Enrage-type skills. Also, Dumb Luck should be 100% Stance, so that it lines up with Mihile and Battle Mage's Power Stance.

    Good points
  • MageOfBattlesMageOfBattles
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    edited November 2017
    Yeah, I agree completely. There's no reason to have Bt so weak. There's countless things upon which to improve. Hawk needs way more damage, bear needs more lines and mobility, leapord needs a bit more strength and lines. Cat mode needs more utility as a support.
  • thrakkesthrakkes
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    edited November 2017
    I havent really checked my BT hyper skill, but I was thinking of a hyper skill which allows BT to directly hitting with the hammer instead of using swaps. Kinda like Aran with Final Blow + Beyond skill. Also it should be able to start in air. Unless the %damage is too low for number of lines it does, I dont think lines matter unless you are hitting cap damage... Well yeah I suppose you are right on this lol.

    I have tried a few skills of Leopard and it looked like most of skills IF NOT all are movement skills, might be bit hard to control in bossing. I might be wrong here.

    Hawk skills are way too weak lol.

    As for Node skills, you brought very good point. Unless you use 3 animals regularly and you keep getting SP when leveling past 200 to max out all skills (do they really keep getting SP? o-o ), you are right on this.

    Off-topic: It reminds me Hayato nodeskills lol, which you get different nodes for both stances. Example, you get one node skill for Rai Senrenzen and you get another one Rai Blade. Also one for Summer Rain and another one for Hitokiri Hundred Strikes. Not sure if there are any other Rai skills, so it makes a total of 20 different node boost skills, making it too hard to have perfect trio assuming it's Rai Blade, Rai Senrenzen and Shinsoku (if not sudden strike).
  • KingofFurriesKingofFurries
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    edited November 2017
    thrakkes wrote: »
    I havent really checked my BT hyper skill, but I was thinking of a hyper skill which allows BT to directly hitting with the hammer instead of using swaps. Kinda like Aran with Final Blow + Beyond skill. Also it should be able to start in air. Unless the %damage is too low for number of lines it does, I dont think lines matter unless you are hitting cap damage... Well yeah I suppose you are right on this lol.

    I have tried a few skills of Leopard and it looked like most of skills IF NOT all are movement skills, might be bit hard to control in bossing. I might be wrong here.

    Hawk skills are way too weak lol.

    As for Node skills, you brought very good point. Unless you use 3 animals regularly and you keep getting SP when leveling past 200 to max out all skills (do they really keep getting SP? o-o ), you are right on this.

    Off-topic: It reminds me Hayato nodeskills lol, which you get different nodes for both stances. Example, you get one node skill for Rai Senrenzen and you get another one Rai Blade. Also one for Summer Rain and another one for Hitokiri Hundred Strikes. Not sure if there are any other Rai skills, so it makes a total of 20 different node boost skills, making it too hard to have perfect trio assuming it's Rai Blade, Rai Senrenzen and Shinsoku (if not sudden strike).

    Some good points. leopard would be hard to control in bossing, but the idea could be something like you're using the hammer, then use thunder dash to avoid an attack, then back to hammer. or something of the likes.

    And no, we stop getting SP @200. it would be cool to keep getting sp past 200.

    Yeah our nodestones are terrible, i think i last counted like 2 attacks, and like 20+ or so boost nodes. yeah...... i think we have a very similar amount to hyatos.
  • EvanTrinityEvanTrinity
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    edited December 2018
    also i have some good points:
    with the skill echo of hero they need to add lvl 200 medal
    the SP UI tab is like b4 so they need to change it like the other classes
    some skills r higher lvl so they should lower some skills lvl
    skill node for furius strikes or get together with paw swipe
    to add the beast tamer quests for maple achievements and everything els
    the beast tamer needs more SP for more animal skills
    the SP System needs to be like Zero that they getting 3 SP for each Alpha & Beta like getting 3 SP for ea Animal when they unlock the animal for getting more SP to Max all the skills to get all the animals
    they needs to change some skills that still giving accuracy & avoidability that no longer available anymore or other effects such as lopard has % instant kill that have been removed from all classes

    and the most important
    lvl 200(today lvl 190) hyper skill(or special Buff) like the other classes

    i hope that i help

    u can also check my post, i wrote something simmilar to this 1
    http://forums.maplestory.nexon.net/discussion/22875/updated-beast-tamer-thread#latest
  • KingofFurriesKingofFurries
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    edited December 2018
    also i have some good points:
    with the skill echo of hero they need to add lvl 200 medal
    the SP UI tab is like b4 so they need to change it like the other classes
    some skills r higher lvl so they should lower some skills lvl
    skill node for furius strikes or get together with paw swipe
    to add the beast tamer quests for maple achievements and everything els
    the beast tamer needs more SP for more animal skills
    the SP System needs to be like Zero that they getting 3 SP for each Alpha & Beta like getting 3 SP for ea Animal when they unlock the animal for getting more SP to Max all the skills to get all the animals
    they needs to change some skills that still giving accuracy & avoidability that no longer available anymore or other effects such as lopard has % instant kill that have been removed from all classes

    and the most important
    lvl 200(today lvl 190) hyper skill(or special Buff) like the other classes

    i hope that i help

    u can also check my post, i wrote something simmilar to this 1
    http://forums.maplestory.nexon.net/discussion/22875/updated-beast-tamer-thread#latest

    Well, paw swipe node does effect furious strikes tbh
    The insta kill chance in leopard can stay, no diea why u mentioned it lmao would be a mini nerf >.< considering it still works, just they didn't want classes to have it
  • AggraphineAggraphine
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    edited December 2018
    He mentioned it because every other insta-kill chance was removed a year or two ago. No more insta-kill on ender, nor on wild hunter character card(legion piece now), all of it's gone.

    The fact that beast tamer still has things that have long been removed from all other aspects of the game shows how out-of-date the class is.
    Fuhreak
  • BeefBeef
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    edited December 2018
    Mode merge, and some tweaks. All the animal passive should be shared together instead of switching to the dedicated animal for the buffs. Also remove the animal switching gimmick, so that BT can just use all the animals without switch, example would be using Leopard to move around and up jump with hawk seamlessly or dashing with leopard and start whacking a boss with bear. The cat mode feels slow imo to be used by itself, i feel like it can act as a final attack or something, inflicting the debuff.
  • DaxterbeerDaxterbeer
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    edited December 2018
    New Gimmick:
    Be able to mash 2 different animal skills at the same time. (Cannot use Deep Breath with Majestic Trumpet because Fort would be breathing in his own farts.)

    Beef
  • PirateIzzyPirateIzzy
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    edited December 2018
    I would personally allow for Hawk mode to be usable with all other modes. Imagine using Hawk's Fly/Flash Jump with Bear attacks.

    Then again I would also rework BT in many other ways. I'd merge skills together and make it possible to master all BT skills by Level 200, as well as making Bear and Leopard more feasible to work with.
    Beef
  • BeefBeef
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    edited December 2018
    Daxterbeer wrote: »
    New Gimmick:
    Be able to mash 2 different animal skills at the same time. (Cannot use Deep Breath with Majestic Trumpet because Fort would be breathing in his own farts.)

    Breathe in fart, shoot out fire like Mir
  • BeefBeef
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    edited December 2018
    Also BT need some animation to speed up, the animals have their own specials that are way to slow and no iframes