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10b Damage cap resulted breaking the game' balance

Roni777Roni777
Reactions: 1,190
Posts: 256
Member, Private Tester
edited January 5 in Suggestions, Feedback, and Requests
Bug type:
With the damgae cap still stays at 10b cap, create a huge unbalance damage bug between classes, eventhough new skills keep increasing.

Brief bug summary:
The game is currently in a very inbalance state at the moment. This is due to inability of Developer to compherent the overall situation in GMS with the recently too fast update of 5th job skills, flames update and 25 star force update. Though, this is unintended bug that create inbalance in game.

More details:
This bug mostlikely is not intended. But happened due to several situation which breaking several classes that resulted more and more end game players quitting the game. Now, it is reaching the breaking point of losing a lot of players. And this will be getting worse if no actions taken. This is the combination of situations that creates the game breaking bug :
1. Damage cap 10 billion perline
2. A lot of new 5th job skills boosting damage but doesn't have increase on skill lines per hit on some classes
3. Some GMS special content such as Supperior Gollux equips
4. latest new Hard lucid, hard will update
5. A lot of new party damage buff from several classes such as kanna and bishop can raise damage several times.
6. Several classes has gotten skills with Low damage but lots of hits or lines
7. flames and 25 star force update
8. Consumable items that can boost damage
9. Link skills and Legions from special classes in GMS Kanna and Beast Tamer
10. Lab Server Legions


As an example, i will use hayato, Nightlord and Night Walker class as comparison.

https://i.imgur.com/9JxHAg9.png

Above is a link to Hayato Battle analysis. This hayato only use averagely 18 Stars Absolab level 160 equips. Not even using a complete set of level 200 equips with 22 stars which is currently available through hard lucid and hard will boss. Averagely, Hayato in 40 seconds, with his main attack skill can only hit around 400-500 times. But their damage is huge, if you see the link above, this hayato hit reaching 10 billions damage cap on his main damage even with only level 160 equips 18 stars. Due to the damage cap, hayato Max damage over 40 seconds is only 10Billions x 500 = 5 Trillions. Whilst some bosses such as hard Lucid phase 3, has over 40 Trillion HP and we have only around 40 seconds to kill it.. Even if 6 hayato combine their damage together, they will only able to deal 5Trillion x 6 = 30 Trillions. It is because their damage is capped at 5 Trillions Over 40 seconds. If there are no damage cap, The Hayato can hits even 4x more which is 20Trillions if they have end game equips.

As to compare to NightLord. NightLord itself has gotten a skill spreadthrow which will makes Nightlord class able to deal 4500 hits over 40 seconds. I knew this from the Battle analysis of NL i met You can check it out with players that you know of. The NL hits 5 billions per lines which resulted 5Bllions x 4500 =22.5Trillions. The comparison between Hayato and NL is as low as 4x damage ( or 400% damage difference) due to damage cap resulting on certain class stuck on mid game and quitting the game. Even if you try to wider the calculation lets say to 10 mins, the result will still be the same, Hayato still stuck at 5 Trillions every 40 seconds due to their actual damage getting capped at 10 bilions. It is because hayato skill does a huge number of % resulting they can easily hit the damage cap.

As to comparison to NightWalker class, Nightwalker can deal around 3000 hits every 40 seconds. I saw a Nightwalker Battle analysis that can deal around 5 billions per line. Resulted hitting 5Billions x 3000 = 15 Trillions over 40 seconds. It is also still 300% more compare to hayato. same as above statement, even if you are trying to strecth the time, the difference is still huge.

This inbalance bug might appear on certain classes that deals a huge damage with low of hits. 1 of the class that i know is Hayato. Some of the people i know is already on the brink of quitting the game coz they think the cap resulting on them 3x more weaker than other classes even on midgame. if they max maximised their equips, they will be even weaker compare to other classes with similar equips. if it is, lets say only around 25%-30% difference, they might not get a huge hit and quit. But the difference by 300% resulted them quitting soon. The new 5th job skill didn't help at all. and hayato simply is not a buff or suppport class. this give them a huge blow after they spend times to improve their class.


My suggestion :
1. Raise damage cap to around 20 billions or 30 billions. best is 30 billions because soon, we will have a lot of new equips coming to GMS. I have seen them at KMS update. So you don't need to raise it again in the near future.
2. Look over some classes that deals huge damage with low hits such as hayato. Change over the skills especially 5th job skills so they can at least comparable to other classes.
you can rework the skill to deal half damage but double hits.
3. Create equip/certain skill that accesible to all players which will multiply their hits or lines while reducing their damage. Example, 3x hits but damage cut by 50%.
4. Cut all of classes skill damage % by half and reduce bosses HP by half too. with the damage cap stays at 10B, but lower damgae%, the effect will still be the same as increasing the damage cap.
5. Keep your words and promise. as a lot of players knew that Maplestory have announced few years back that damage cap in a MMORPG is not good system in a game. As for me, i kept the statement it as a promise that there will be no more damage cap or at least when player reach damage cap, GM will as soon as possible raise it. And now, I suggest Maplestory to keep their promise. And this damage cap itself create a devastating result to several classes becomes super weak at end game ( super weak which means 300-400% weaker). This is devastating.

As this is is not to bring benefit to me, but to bring benefit for Maplestory itslef and its community and players. So you don't lose customers because of your failure to asses the overal game situation because of the unintended bug

Eventhough i know, it is not 100% your fault, coz past few months, the game has been running at the fastest pace i ever seen in the whole Maplestory history. New maps, New bosses, New 5th job skills, new equips, new 25 star force, New flame system, New classes and lots of other crazy stuff that i abrely can keep up. But it still your responsibility. And i hope maplestory is the kind ot keep their promises. Not to let down their player. And at the end, you find solutions to this matter as soon as possible. Because several classes now hitting cap damage even with just mid game equips. You can also check Marksmen. They also hit damage cap mid game.

As the more this unintended bug going, the more it will break the game as new update coming around.

Steps to reproduce:
1. Create all classes inclduing Hayato, Nightwalker, NightLord, and Marksmen. All 43 classes if possible.
2. Use dummy from mulung dojo. or summon a non-moving monster/target that can't die. Dummy actually is not really good way because several 5th job skills such as Nightwalker 5th job skill doesn't work at town where you can only spawn Dummy there. Thus, I reccomend Summon 1 non-moving unkillable monster at a monster map without other monsters.
3. Equip all the classes with best equips, 22 stars arcane equips set+ 22 stars supperior gollux equips set, + 22 stars rings + all other best equip in slot
4. Create support classes such as Kanna and Bishop with max nodes on their new 5th job support skills that can boost damage. use it to buff the classes
5. Get several potion buffs and apples to use on the classes.
6. Provide best set up including best link skills from KMS classes and GMS exclusive classes
7. Do battle analysis on all those classes and buffs. The time is up to you. 30 seconds, 60 seconds, 360 seconds, or any timing.
8. With 10 billions damage cap, with best equip, other classes buff, and consumable buff, you will see a possiblity devastating result that some classes can deal probably 1000% damage more compare to other classes eventhough they are both similar DPS/damage class.


Character name:
RedNightW
Character level:
250
Character job:
NightWalker
World name:
Reboot
Date and time of the incident:

Since the last 5th job update, this is massively spreading. More and more players hitting damage cap creating a huge dissapointment among players due their class getting too much disadvantages. after spending hundred hours of playing and the intimacy they have with their main class, some players unwilling to start fresh with other classes and do another hours of game play. They simply quit playing due to dissapointment.

Comments

  • AznboiEAznboiE
    Reactions: 3,445
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    Member
    edited January 7
    latest?cb=20130309153321

    Damage cap "removal" or should I say, increase, was meant to be unreachable at the time. But here we are. They based 10b damage as the cap most classes couldn't reach without conditions, but several conditions that have to be met at the same time enable the cap to be reached.
    FuhreakSuperJonic
  • PirateIzzyPirateIzzy
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    edited January 7
    Why is this under bug reports
  • AlarbiAlarbi
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    Blaster is gonna enjoy this damage cap staying :) most hits/lines per second of any class outside cds.
    Puffycheeks
  • thrakkesthrakkes
    Reactions: 1,680
    Posts: 336
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    edited January 7
    Not a bug, but it definitively brings back the problem we had before V patch... KMS even lowered Hero number of lines on main skill when Lucid came out... Hero still can't solo h.lucid even with 10 lines on raging blow, so what is the issue? o.0 Dmg cap needs to be increased to 100B, so the only situation which dmg cap is reachable is gonna be when doing very low number of line with high % dmg at Hard lucid.

    This problem is even worse in TMS... This video is a perfect example.



    Also the only class who can solo Hard Lucid is Night Lord... The class is nowhere near top 10 on DPM chart too.


    In TMS



    In GMS with hardcap attack speed. Imagine how faster he could solo if he threw that big star like this NL in TMS on video above...


    Only class who may be well balanced here in GMS for h.Lucid p3 would be luminous who went skyrocket since that 3rd 5th job skill but i can't say if Lumi in GMS can finally solo hard lucid o-o


    Finally look at the strongest player of GMS, also the only one beating Dojo. Still can't solo hard lucid because of this problem... low lines.
    He could do about 60 more lines if he activated weapon aura, still not good enough for solo.

  • FuhreakFuhreak
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    Member, Private Tester
    edited January 8
    thrakkes wrote: »
    -snip-
    Hard Lucid is supposed to be an end-game boss that you aren't supposed to solo. She's supposed to be... well... hard.
    The problem here isn't that she isn't soloable, it's that TMS is just broken.
    As the OP stats as well, part of the problem is that GMS has some similar broken content. Damage cap doesn't need to be increased or "removed" (again)
    The only thing we need is to stop pushing the power creep even further ahead of 99% of the player base.
  • AKradianAKradian
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    Volunteer Forum Moderator, Private Tester
    edited January 8
    Fuhreak wrote: »
    thrakkes wrote: »
    -snip-
    Hard Lucid is supposed to be an end-game boss that you aren't supposed to solo. She's supposed to be... well... hard.
    The problem here isn't that she isn't soloable, it's that TMS is just broken.
    As the OP stats as well, part of the problem is that GMS has some similar broken content. Damage cap doesn't need to be increased or "removed" (again)
    The only thing we need is to stop pushing the power creep even further ahead of 99% of the player base.

    While power creep is an issue, the problem being pointed out in this thread is the balance between classes.

    Traditionally in Maplestory, we have had some classes that hit slow but hard and classes that hit fast but weak. The overall DPM may be similar, but the flavor is different and "realistic" - after all, one can't use a heavy two-handed axe to land a flurry of hits like one can with a dagger, but each hit with that axe is going to hurt a lot.
    This became an issue during the years of rampant power creep, as the 50m damage cap was easily reached and characters were hard-capped by the number of lines they could deliver, not their funding or skill. I specifically remember famous player Marksman Bryan, one of the first to complete the Tower of Oz, ended up having to job-change to Bowmaster to kill Dorothy. It was simply impossible for a Marksman, even capping on all skills, to deliver enough 50m lines to kill her in time.
    HPS (Hits Per Second) became the final measure of a class's power, rather than DPS (Damage Per Second).

    To combat this imbalance, during the 50m-cap period, Nexon repeatedly updated skills, adding lines (and reducing damage per line). The idea was to make all classes equally viable in "LineStory".

    When the damage cap was raised to 10b, Nexon announced it as "we have removed the damage cap". They also promptly reduced the number of lines (and increased the damage per line) of the traditionally slow-but-hard-hitting classes, to restore their flavor.

    Now that the 10b damage cap is reachable - and it is reachable and surpassable in KMS, too - we are back to "LineStory". Which is not a good thing.
    SlicedTimeFuhreak
  • Skyfall1989Skyfall1989
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    edited January 8
    I just wish GMS has strong archer class, but weak af in reality. In TMS, all classes have higher damage and they are quite balanced as l say. Look at how many people play NL and how many play DEX class.
  • AggraphineAggraphine
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    edited January 8
    I just wish GMS has strong archer class, but weak af in reality. In TMS, all classes have higher damage and they are quite balanced as l say. Look at how many people play NL and how many play DEX class.

    I refuse to believe anyone can look at tms and go "yes that is an acceptable state of the game" and actually be serious about it.
  • thrakkesthrakkes
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    edited January 8
    Fuhreak wrote: »
    thrakkes wrote: »
    -snip-
    Hard Lucid is supposed to be an end-game boss that you aren't supposed to solo. She's supposed to be... well... hard.
    The problem here isn't that she isn't soloable, it's that TMS is just broken.
    As the OP stats as well, part of the problem is that GMS has some similar broken content. Damage cap doesn't need to be increased or "removed" (again)
    The only thing we need is to stop pushing the power creep even further ahead of 99% of the player base.

    One of these NL solo videos is not TMS, but actually GMS. Easier for this guy Thief to solo because of the hardcap attack speed so he hasn't tried as hard as this guy in TMS.

    Yes hard lucid is a hard boss, but the cap damage makes it so classes with low lines and high dmg cap on her way too early on phase 3. Especially with Bishop and/or Kanna. TMS is mainly broken for Dojo and Dream Defender for certain classes...
  • Roni777Roni777
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    Member, Private Tester
    edited January 18
    PirateIzzy wrote: »
    Why is this under bug reports

    Because it break the game. Something that is broken in game = bug. A broken system that break the game is a bug. Un-intended bug because Maple missed them. It destroy several classes that only hits 500 lines in 40 seconds on p3 lucid compare to NL that deals 4000 lines in 40 seconds. The difference is 8x even wtihout damage cap. it is unbalance. Because those classes that deals low lines supposedly hit higher damage perlines, but because of damge cap, they touch the damage cap first. As an example, if suddenly NightLord spreadthrow can hit 20.000 lines, do you say it is bug? Or suddenly Nightlord spread throw hit 100 lines, is it bug? it is a bug, coz it will cause an imbalance in game. Similar to damage cap causing several classes disadvantages.
    thrakkes wrote: »
    Not a bug, but it definitively brings back the problem we had before V patch... KMS even lowered Hero number of lines on main skill when Lucid came out... Hero still can't solo h.lucid even with 10 lines on raging blow, so what is the issue? o.0 Dmg cap needs to be increased to 100B, so the only situation which dmg cap is reachable is gonna be when doing very low number of line with high % dmg at Hard lucid.

    This problem is even worse in TMS... This video is a perfect example.



    Also the only class who can solo Hard Lucid is Night Lord... The class is nowhere near top 10 on DPM chart too.



    In TMS



    In GMS with hardcap attack speed. Imagine how faster he could solo if he threw that big star like this NL in TMS on video above...


    Only class who may be well balanced here in GMS for h.Lucid p3 would be luminous who went skyrocket since that 3rd 5th job skill but i can't say if Lumi in GMS can finally solo hard lucid o-o


    Finally look at the strongest player of GMS, also the only one beating Dojo. Still can't solo hard lucid because of this problem... low lines.
    He could do about 60 more lines if he activated weapon aura, still not good enough for solo.




    You are talking about the wrong class. Hero can hits 2k lines over 40 seconds. it is only half of NL with most lines. But hayato hits only 500 lines and marksmen hitting only 1100 lines. 2 Heroes hitting cap can Duo Hard lucid. NL can even solo hard lucid. But 6 hayato join up together only hit 500lines x 6 = 3.000 lines. you can only kill it if you tema up 8 hayatos while NL can solo them. Not because they are weak, but because of the damage cap.
    Fuhreak wrote: »
    thrakkes wrote: »
    -snip-
    Hard Lucid is supposed to be an end-game boss that you aren't supposed to solo. She's supposed to be... well... hard.
    The problem here isn't that she isn't soloable, it's that TMS is just broken.
    As the OP stats as well, part of the problem is that GMS has some similar broken content. Damage cap doesn't need to be increased or "removed" (again)
    The only thing we need is to stop pushing the power creep even further ahead of 99% of the player base.

    No. hard Lucid is not that "end game" anymore. There are hard will and hard Lotus. With just absolab full set 22 stars + other 22 stars equips, people can Duo even Trio Hard lucid. With Full arcane 22 stars sets, People possibly can solo hard lucid nowadays if there is no damage cap. So hard lucid is not really a end game content anymore. Coz people nowadays can solo or Duo it. End game bosses supposed to be hard to kill one.

    The damage cap need to be raise because maple keep releasing new equips, new damage boost such as flames and 25 stars. It only need Absolab set with 18 stars to reach damage cap with certain classes nowadays with party buffs. Certain classes with 22 stars arcane sets + party buffs possibly can hit even 30 billions per line. That is way over the damage cap. If you are saying Absolab 18 stars is unobtainable by 99% of players base, you need to check with your method. Coz i saw many people nowadays have a lot of 18-19 stars even 21 stars absolabs
  • AznboiEAznboiE
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    edited January 18
    Next time Nexon does damage cap increase they should also scale down skill damage percentages and boss HP bars so that we don't get skills with 2500% damage hitting the new damage cap while all our other skills from 1st to 4th job do about 60b (assuming we have a damage cap increase to somewhere about 500b). Damage will look smaller and nothing will change while still having potential to reach the inflated cap with funding instead of freebie V skills.
    Fuhreak