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GM should add additional potentials on reboot

DannyGodDannyGod
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Sure, i admit that we get dmg +100% on lv 200. However, it is not even comparable to additional stats. It is way less effect to users who are over 200. Also, people who played the game for at least several months go over 150+% damage easily, so the reboot passive is not good, or worth having 5* health bar of normal server's monsters. I think reboot people are losing damage that were possible if they played on normal server. I firmly believe that this is unfair decision for reboot server players. You can simply add additional potentials and sell cubes for mesos. Thank you for reading.

Comments

  • FuhreakFuhreak
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    edited October 2019
    I think reboot people are losing damage that were possible if they played on normal server.
    That's the point. Reboot is the hard server. Don't like it? Play the normal servers.
    What's next, should they add scrolls as well for the same reason?

    Reboot is supposed to be a harder server with less systems to have to deal with.
  • AggraphineAggraphine
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    edited October 2019
    Well of course reboot players "are losing damage". There are no scrolls or bonus potential by design. If you want scrolls and bonus potential, as well as trading because your ilk always likes to cry about not being able to trade with others(read as: twink out a mule via your main), then go play on a non-reboot server.

    You can have one or the other. You can have progression-affecting cash items be available for mesos, or you can have scrolls and bonus potential. You can't have both.
  • BeefBeef
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    edited October 2019
    As a Reboot player, no. We can already clear bosses up to Black Mage. There's need to be a small power creep but no additional potential .
  • WhorificWhorific
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    edited October 2019
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    Well of course reboot players "are losing damage". There are no scrolls or bonus potential by design. If you want scrolls and bonus potential, as well as trading because your ilk always likes to cry about not being able to trade with others(read as: twink out a mule via your main), then go play on a non-reboot server.

    You can have one or the other. You can have progression-affecting cash items be available for mesos, or you can have scrolls and bonus potential. You can't have both.

    This comment is the last thing I would have expected from you. Just because a design choice was intentional doesn't mean it was good. Heck, free-to-play MMOs thrive on poor design choices, it's how they make their money. Of course, Nexon isn't going to add trading or additional enhancement options to Reboot but patronizing him and saying he's "crying" when he's criticizing poor, albeit intentional design choices is hypocritical coming from one of the biggest critics on this forum.
    darik
  • AggraphineAggraphine
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    edited October 2019
    Oh you expected me to agree with the people who don't read into reboot beyond "buy cubes and other enhancement items with mesos" and start whining that the limitations the server imposes on players are unfair?

    If you want what reboot lacks, you're more than welcome to play on a server other than reboot. You can have one or the other.
    Beef
  • WhorificWhorific
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    edited October 2019
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    Oh you expected me to agree with the people who don't read into reboot beyond "buy cubes and other enhancement items with mesos" and start whining that the limitations the server imposes on players are unfair?

    If you want what reboot lacks, you're more than welcome to play on a server other than reboot. You can have one or the other.

    No, I just didn't expect you to defend the game's poor design. You're usually the first person to argue against it. It's like you're saying "What? You don't like getting slapped in the face? Go to the other server and get punched in the gut, instead." Neither option is ideal but you've just accepted it as the way it's supposed to be. What makes this situation different that makes you, not just settle with the mediocre options we've been given without contention, but to mock the people that criticize the discrepancies as if they were arguing against good design?
    darik
  • AggraphineAggraphine
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    edited October 2019
    If you give reboot scrolling and bonus potential, you may as well give them player-to-player trading and an auction house to boot. And for the sake of game balance, the reboot-exclusive passive skill should be removed too. No need for literally free damage and higher meso drops when you have scrolls, bpot and trading.

    At this point, reboot becomes functionally identical to every other server, there ceases to be a reason for it to exist.
    HuskyDMFuhreak
  • SpairahSpairah
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    edited October 2019
    I really hate slippery slope arguments, he mentioned bonus potential, nothing about trading or scrolling. Arguing against something a group of people said that the person in question has not stated makes you look overly aggressive and not a person people would want to debate/talk to.
    That being said, in my opinion is that bonus potential would make reboot too powerful, but as of now they need a small boost to make the black mage feasible; 'harder' is an empty word if the task is 'impossible' for reboot.
    darik
  • WhorificWhorific
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    edited October 2019
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    If you give reboot scrolling and bonus potential, you may as well give them player-to-player trading and an auction house to boot. And for the sake of game balance, the reboot-exclusive passive skill should be removed too. No need for literally free damage and higher meso drops when you have scrolls, bpot and trading.

    At this point, reboot becomes functionally identical to every other server, there ceases to be a reason for it to exist.

    That's a fair point but there's more than one way to balance a game. You don't have to make everything the same. I love not having to worry about scrolls, but I do still have to acknowledge that Reboot's damage ceiling is significantly lower than on non-Reboot and the beginner skill isn't nearly strong enough to cover that huge difference. That might have been intentional to make non-Reboot more appealing to paying customers. That's fine but no one who plays this game has to agree that it's good design. The draw of Reboot is that it rewards time investment over monetary investment. You can still balance the game around that to lower that damage discrepancy. Something like adding Reboot-exclusive dailies or even full questlines that increase your stats is one example. I'm not expecting anything like that to happen because it's more profitable to work on non-Reboot content but I can still complain about it.
    darik
  • HuskyDMHuskyDM
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    edited October 2019
    Whorific wrote: »
    That's a fair point but there's more than one way to balance a game. You don't have to make everything the same. I love not having to worry about scrolls, but I do still have to acknowledge that Reboot's damage ceiling is significantly lower than on non-Reboot and the beginner skill isn't nearly strong enough to cover that huge difference. That might have been intentional to make non-Reboot more appealing to paying customers. That's fine but no one who plays this game has to agree that it's good design. The draw of Reboot is that it rewards time investment over monetary investment. You can still balance the game around that to lower that damage discrepancy. Something like adding Reboot-exclusive dailies or even full questlines that increase your stats is one example. I'm not expecting anything like that to happen because it's more profitable to work on non-Reboot content but I can still complain about it.

    The draw of Reboot is both that its F2P and that its meant to be harder to make it feel "like Maple of old" where you had to put effort rather than money. That's one of the reasons behind Reboot, take the difficulty away and it becomes a F2P normal server that generates less money. I would give you the bonus pots but that does defeat the purpose of difficulty in Reboot.

    Fuhreak
  • FuhreakFuhreak
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    edited October 2019
    Reboot being harder was intentional. Lacking in the damage department helps in making it harder.
    How is that bad game design?

    "Bad game design" is used too loosely anyway. Just because YOU don't find it fun, doesn't mean it isn't fun for other people.
    The whole point of that decision is the make the game more simple to deal with and harder as well.
    This is good game design for people who want this kind of thing. Just because it isn't your niche, doesn't mean it isn't someone's.

    Lose/Lose, a game that literally deletes files off your computer makes for an awful game. But it was designed to be like that.

    As Aggraphine said, why not just go all the way and add in the rest of the normal server stuff?
    As a reboot player, I can tell you I don't want bonus potential.
  • WhorificWhorific
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    edited October 2019
    Fuhreak wrote: »
    Reboot being harder was intentional. Lacking in the damage department helps in making it harder.
    How is that bad game design?

    "Bad game design" is used too loosely anyway. Just because YOU don't find it fun, doesn't mean it isn't fun for other people.
    The whole point of that decision is the make the game more simple to deal with and harder as well.
    This is good game design for people who want this kind of thing. Just because it isn't your niche, doesn't mean it isn't someone's.

    Lose/Lose, a game that literally deletes files off your computer makes for an awful game. But it was designed to be like that.

    As Aggraphine said, why not just go all the way and add in the rest of the normal server stuff?
    As a reboot player, I can tell you I don't want bonus potential.
    HuskyDM wrote: »

    The draw of Reboot is both that its F2P and that its meant to be harder to make it feel "like Maple of old" where you had to put effort rather than money. That's one of the reasons behind Reboot, take the difficulty away and it becomes a F2P normal server that generates less money. I would give you the bonus pots but that does defeat the purpose of difficulty in Reboot.

    I didn't say it's bad design because it's hard. I said it's bad design because it places artificial limitations on character progression. These limitations doesn't make the game any more interesting to play. You're still doing the same thing you'd be doing in non-Reboot, just less of it. The devs favor non-Reboot because cubes bring in a bigger profit than aesthetics so it makes sense to allow non-Reboot to go further from a business perspective, but from a gameplay design perspective, it accomplishes nothing and only hinders players' progress after they get to endgame content.

    I'd also argue that Reboot isn't hard. Progression in Reboot is much, MUCH faster than in non-Reboot for free players. Increasing monster HP doesn't make the server more difficult, it doesn't require any more skill to beat them, it just means monsters take a longer time to die. It only serves as a waste of time that eventually becomes completely inconsequential, anyway, because you can get much stronger at a much faster pace than in non-Reboot and outpace monsters' HP. Difficulty is not the issue here. The problem is that your progression plateaus much faster than in non-Reboot so, after a certain point late into the game, you just can't do anything more. Once you've perfected your equipment, you still don't have the raw numbers to beat the final boss because the game took away your ability to progress.
    darik
  • HuskyDMHuskyDM
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    edited October 2019
    Whorific wrote: »
    I didn't say it's bad design because it's hard. I said it's bad design because it places artificial limitations on character progression. These limitations doesn't make the game any more interesting to play. You're still doing the same thing you'd be doing in non-Reboot, just less of it. The devs favor non-Reboot because cubes bring in a bigger profit than aesthetics so it makes sense to allow non-Reboot to go further from a business perspective, but from a gameplay design perspective, it accomplishes nothing and only hinders players' progress after they get to endgame content.

    I'd also argue that Reboot isn't hard. Progression in Reboot is much, MUCH faster than in non-Reboot for free players. Increasing monster HP doesn't make the server more difficult, it doesn't require any more skill to beat them, it just means monsters take a longer time to die. It only serves as a waste of time that eventually becomes completely inconsequential, anyway, because you can get much stronger at a much faster pace than in non-Reboot and outpace monsters' HP. Difficulty is not the issue here. The problem is that your progression plateaus much faster than in non-Reboot so, after a certain point late into the game, you just can't do anything more. Once you've perfected your equipment, you still don't have the raw numbers to beat the final boss because the game took away your ability to progress.

    You pretty much described the point of Reboot, and why it doesn't needs the extra lines. The last part specially is where the difficulty comes from, and if you are lacking then you get a party. Mobbing is not that important, or difficult anymore so its not a good point of comparison.

    With all that being said why don't you go to the normal server instead? With trading and a bit of luck you can get to the same amount of progression you had in Reboot in a short time, for free.
    Fuhreak
  • WhorificWhorific
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    edited October 2019
    HuskyDM wrote: »

    You pretty much described the point of Reboot, and why it doesn't needs the extra lines. The last part specially is where the difficulty comes from, and if you are lacking then you get a party. Mobbing is not that important, or difficult anymore so its not a good point of comparison.

    With all that being said why don't you go to the normal server instead? With trading and a bit of luck you can get to the same amount of progression you had in Reboot in a short time, for free.

    Mobbing is the only point of comparison because everything else is the same. Like I said, difficulty is not the problem. It's completely irrelevant. You can master a boss's patterns but it's not going to do you any good if your party doesn't have the damage to take it out within the time limit. From what I've heard, Reboot is literally, completely unable to defeat the Black Mage.

    I've played non-Reboot since before big bang. I've already said why I don't like it. I'm not going back.
    darik
  • HHG1HHG1
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    edited October 2019
    Whorific wrote: »
    I'd also argue that Reboot isn't hard. Progression in Reboot is much, MUCH faster than in non-Reboot for free players. Increasing monster HP doesn't make the server more difficult, it doesn't require any more skill to beat them, it just means monsters take a longer time to die. It only serves as a waste of time that eventually becomes completely inconsequential, anyway, because you can get much stronger at a much faster pace than in non-Reboot and outpace monsters' HP. Difficulty is not the issue here. The problem is that your progression plateaus much faster than in non-Reboot so, after a certain point late into the game, you just can't do anything more. Once you've perfected your equipment, you still don't have the raw numbers to beat the final boss because the game took away your ability to progress.

    Monsters in reboot also have higher EXP as a reward for taking down that extra HP.
    Honestly this thread is just further proof that the two server concepts can't be fairly compared and shouldn't be sharing ranks.
    darik
  • BeefBeef
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    edited October 2019
    Whorific wrote: »
    HuskyDM wrote: »

    You pretty much described the point of Reboot, and why it doesn't needs the extra lines. The last part specially is where the difficulty comes from, and if you are lacking then you get a party. Mobbing is not that important, or difficult anymore so its not a good point of comparison.

    With all that being said why don't you go to the normal server instead? With trading and a bit of luck you can get to the same amount of progression you had in Reboot in a short time, for free.

    Mobbing is the only point of comparison because everything else is the same. Like I said, difficulty is not the problem. It's completely irrelevant. You can master a boss's patterns but it's not going to do you any good if your party doesn't have the damage to take it out within the time limit. From what I've heard, Reboot is literally, completely unable to defeat the Black Mage.

    I've played non-Reboot since before big bang. I've already said why I don't like it. I'm not going back.

    People can cap dmg on Reboot already, so dmg isnt the problem. BM has like an hour timer, and Bera cleared within 30min. It's difficult but not impossible, the only limitation really is waiting for certain capable people to reach 275 due to level penalty to have solid team composition.
    Fuhreak
  • WhorificWhorific
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    edited October 2019
    Beef wrote: »
    People can cap dmg on Reboot already, so dmg isnt the problem. BM has like an hour timer, and Bera cleared within 30min. It's difficult but not impossible, the only limitation really is waiting for certain capable people to reach 275 due to level penalty to have solid team composition.

    Fair enough. I'd love to see it.
    darik
  • ShadEightShadEight
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    edited November 2019
    bonus potential was probably the most braindead cash grab introduced to the game. Wow another 3 lines of potential, very creative nexon. I'm glad reboot doesn't have this mess.