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Reboot 5% Boss Damage Requirement Changes

TheVoidTheVoid
Reactions: 560
Posts: 13
Member
edited November 2023 in Suggestions, Feedback, and Requests
I believe this requirement is harmful to a fun gameplay experience.

People who play the game together, whether guild members or friends, are incapable of bossing together if the difference in damage is too great. Even if each member is capable on their own.
A party filled with people who are all capable of soloing Hard VHilla, but yet they won't be able to do Hard Seren together because the damage difference between them is too great and would cause some to not get rewards.

This is especially amplified for supports. If a Bishop buffs the damage extensively of people who were strong already, it makes it harder for them to meet the requirement. I've been informed via some higher parties doing Kalos and Kaling that they sometimes have to just stop attacking to let the Bishop/Kanna/BT do enough damage to meet the damage requirement.

The initial intent of this seemed to be to stop full on carries, and RMT. The Korean Team claims that around 40% of users who cleared did less than 1% of the boss damage. Making the requirement of 1% is a good start then. If you feel that doesn't encompass enough, then boost it to 3%.
Another idea is just remove the requirement at high enough tiered bosses. From BlackMage onwards, don't have the requirement anymore. If you managed to get all the way to BlackMage doing at least 5%, it's a high likelihood the player is not getting carried, but playing the game as intended. Maybe even apply it earlier if BlackMage is too late, like Chaos Gloom, Hard Vhilla, or Hard Darknell.

*****EDIT********
Adding this in because i felt it was important to bring up in the starting post:
Another example of this being a problem is the newly introduced Griefing tactic created due to this 5% requirement.

It is possible to join a group of players through the Boss Recruit function as a super strong player, and just demolish the boss, making it impossible to get the 5% and wasting the run of the week for all the players involved. I've seen this occur in twice in Vellum and once in Hard Will.
*******************

Punishing players for trying to party with strong players is not fun. Please don't punish normal players in the effort to limit real money transactions, and full carries.
iBundance

Comments

  • TurtlesRockTurtlesRock
    Reactions: 1,845
    Posts: 95
    Member
    edited November 2023
    Hi, I do kalos with a bishop.

    Supports are able to do 5% if they are truly strong enough to do the boss. If they aren't strong enough to tradionally be called a dps, they can still be strong enough to do 5%. Because 5% is not qualified as a dps. If somoene can't do 5%, they are essentially getting carried. They may be a support, but they are being carried.

    So I disagree with all your points: if someone managed to get all the way to black mage doing only 5%, they got carried. If someone is capable of soloing hard vhilla but cannot get seren rewards, they got carried seren. If bishops or kannas or beast tamers are struggling to do 5% in kalos, they are getting carried.

    But,
    I believe this requirement is harmful to a fun gameplay experience.
    I agree with this. I don't want the boss damage requirement because I want to be carried on my mules. It's what I want, and it's fun. And I think it's ok to be carried. The requirement ruins the fun.
    I disagree with RMT. If the boss damage requirement stops RMT, at least that is a positive. But it probably doesn't.
  • TheVoidTheVoid
    Reactions: 560
    Posts: 13
    Member
    edited November 2023
    Gonna just reiterate the point again:
    I believe this requirement is harmful to a fun gameplay experience.
    People who play the game together, whether guild members or friends, are incapable of bossing together if the difference in damage is too great.
    I agree with this. I don't want the boss damage requirement because I want to be carried on my mules. It's what I want, and it's fun. And I think it's ok to be carried. The requirement ruins the fun.

    While your statement is true, I'd like you to avoid minimizing the initial point i made about people of higher damage differentials being the main issue.

    Another example of this being a problem is the newly introduced Griefing tactic created due to this 5% requirement.

    It is possible to join a group of players through the Boss Recruit function as a super strong player, and just demolish the boss, making it impossible to get the 5% and wasting the run of the week for all the players involved. I've seen this occur in twice in Vellum and once in Hard Will.




    chir
  • xMrMeowxMrMeow
    Reactions: 1,635
    Posts: 62
    Member, Private Tester
    edited November 2023
    Yeah I also disagree.

    With 5% requirement you can have 1 person do 95%, aka they're >>>>19x<<<< stronger than you and still get loot. That's more than reasonable. In a party of 6 you still get a pretty big disparity allowed, with setups like the following still allowing you to get loot
    - Format: numbers all all party member's % of boss's total hp dealt (you're party : you)
    - 19/19/19/19/19/5 (3.8: 1)
    - 50/15/10/10/10/5 (10~2: 1)
    - 75/5/5/5/5/5 (15: 1)
    - 30/20/20/15/10/5 (6~2: 1)

    As you can see above, there are a variety of different party formats that allow for party members to be pretty largely different in strength from each other and still get loot.



    If you are teetering on the line of having enough damage to contribute to a boss, you are getting carried, it's simple as that.

    Even support classes will deal well over 5% if they have even remotely equivalent gear to their fellow party members.

    Supports do not and should not get an instant free pass for all loot so they can breeze through progressing without having to go through all the steps other players have to do like upgrading gear, progressing job advancements, leveling, etc.

  • iBundanceiBundance
    Reactions: 845
    Posts: 169
    Member
    edited November 2023
    TheVoid wrote: »
    I believe this requirement is harmful to a fun gameplay experience.

    People who play the game together, whether guild members or friends, are incapable of bossing together if the difference in damage is too great. Even if each member is capable on their own.
    A party filled with people who are all capable of soloing Hard VHilla, but yet they won't be able to do Hard Seren together because the damage difference between them is too great and would cause some to not get rewards.

    This is especially amplified for supports. If a Bishop buffs the damage extensively of people who were strong already, it makes it harder for them to meet the requirement. I've been informed via some higher parties doing Kalos and Kaling that they sometimes have to just stop attacking to let the Bishop/Kanna/BT do enough damage to meet the damage requirement.

    The initial intent of this seemed to be to stop full on carries, and RMT. The Korean Team claims that around 40% of users who cleared did less than 1% of the boss damage. Making the requirement of 1% is a good start then. If you feel that doesn't encompass enough, then boost it to 3%.
    Another idea is just remove the requirement at high enough tiered bosses. From BlackMage onwards, don't have the requirement anymore. If you managed to get all the way to BlackMage doing at least 5%, it's a high likelihood the player is not getting carried, but playing the game as intended. Maybe even apply it earlier if BlackMage is too late, like Chaos Gloom, Hard Vhilla, or Hard Darknell.

    Punishing players for trying to party with strong players is not fun. Please don't punish normal players in the effort to limit real money transactions, and full carries.

    I agree that this change is harmful to the game. As a returning player I was a bit disappointed seeing the state the game was in but , with the implementation of the NEW Reboot world I would recommend reverting this change for the original Reboot server and implementing it with the needed changes to the new Reboot servers coming soon.. I would even go further to say delaying the release of this new Reboot server until Maplestory is fully balanced would be ideal.
  • TheVoidTheVoid
    Reactions: 560
    Posts: 13
    Member
    edited November 2023
    xMrMeow wrote: »
    - Format: numbers all all party member's % of boss's total hp dealt (you're party : you)
    - 19/19/19/19/19/5 (3.8: 1)
    - 50/15/10/10/10/5 (10~2: 1)
    - 75/5/5/5/5/5 (15: 1)
    - 30/20/20/15/10/5 (6~2: 1)

    As you can see above, there are a variety of different party formats that allow for party members to be pretty largely different in strength from each other and still get loot.

    These examples are not demonstrating what I described as disparity in damage, it's simply a division of 100 into 6 different numbers. For example, the 19/19/19/19/19/5 could be completely normal, everyone fighting at full power, OR it could be an annoying run where 5 people did 19% and then sat around for 5 minutes so #6 could do 5%.
    The 75/5/5/5/5/5 could be everyone fighting at full power, OR, it could be 5 people taking 5 minutes to all do 5%, and the last person instantly finishing it off. And this example isn't far from the grief tactic i mentioned before.
    The damage differential isn't simply about a number, but the time it takes to attain that number. A person who can't do 5% in 1 party can do 5% in another party for the exact same boss. The difference being that the damage differential between the members is smaller in the 2nd party, and the boss run takes longer. This demonstrates a limitation of party capabilities due to damage differential being too great.

    The focus of the responses seem to be that, "If a player isn't doing 5%, it's a carry." Yet this is not the point of the suggestion. It's about the 5% requirement is basically introducing a harmful mechanic to the game in the form of griefing and limiting party capabilities.