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To those who asked for hard core server

Comments

  • pepepepe
    Reactions: 2,125
    Posts: 161
    Member
    edited February 2019
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    I'm with Zetta on this one, time and tedium does not amount to difficulty or challenge.

    In an mmo it actually does or at least it correlates strongly with time. Mobs aren't beefy because they can be one-shotted with minimal funding. You almost never die nowadays except for boss fights (which give you 5/10/15 lives now) and solo progression was only reserved for the really end gamed folk who could cap with 99k lines. It definitely was difficult.
  • ShadEightShadEight
    Reactions: 3,110
    Posts: 381
    Member
    edited February 2019
    DarkZetta wrote: »
    ShadEight wrote: »
    True hard mode is pre-bb maple 1x rates without 8-16x multiplier stacking

    pls gib old maple

    Imagine thinking Time = Difficulty

    Imagine thinking there's skill involved in a grindy korean MMO
  • AggraphineAggraphine
    Reactions: 19,405
    Posts: 3,553
    Member
    edited February 2019
    ShadEight wrote: »
    DarkZetta wrote: »
    ShadEight wrote: »
    True hard mode is pre-bb maple 1x rates without 8-16x multiplier stacking

    pls gib old maple

    Imagine thinking Time = Difficulty

    Imagine thinking there's skill involved in a grindy korean MMO

    Imagine thinking that every class is as braindead to play as hero
  • ShadEightShadEight
    Reactions: 3,110
    Posts: 381
    Member
    edited February 2019
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    ShadEight wrote: »
    DarkZetta wrote: »
    ShadEight wrote: »
    True hard mode is pre-bb maple 1x rates without 8-16x multiplier stacking

    pls gib old maple

    Imagine thinking Time = Difficulty

    Imagine thinking there's skill involved in a grindy korean MMO

    Imagine thinking that every class is as braindead to play as hero

    Imagine thinking arans didn't exist prebb
  • FuhreakFuhreak
    Reactions: 6,920
    Posts: 1,283
    Member, Private Tester
    edited February 2019
    ShadEight wrote: »
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    ShadEight wrote: »
    DarkZetta wrote: »
    ShadEight wrote: »
    True hard mode is pre-bb maple 1x rates without 8-16x multiplier stacking

    pls gib old maple

    Imagine thinking Time = Difficulty

    Imagine thinking there's skill involved in a grindy korean MMO

    Imagine thinking that every class is as braindead to play as hero

    Imagine thinking arans didn't exist prebb

    Imagine derailing a thread with a huge imagine quote chain.
    Not that it wasn't already all over the place.
  • AggraphineAggraphine
    Reactions: 19,405
    Posts: 3,553
    Member
    edited February 2019
    Fuhreak wrote: »
    ShadEight wrote: »
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    ShadEight wrote: »
    DarkZetta wrote: »
    ShadEight wrote: »
    True hard mode is pre-bb maple 1x rates without 8-16x multiplier stacking

    pls gib old maple

    Imagine thinking Time = Difficulty

    Imagine thinking there's skill involved in a grindy korean MMO

    Imagine thinking that every class is as braindead to play as hero

    Imagine thinking arans didn't exist prebb

    Imagine derailing a thread with a huge imagine quote chain.
    Not that it wasn't already all over the place.

    Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try.
    FuhreakMerphist
  • MerphistMerphist
    Reactions: 890
    Posts: 21
    Member, Private Tester
    edited February 2019
    Definition of a hardcore server is up to how the players are. And in all honesty, Reboot and Non-Reboot have their own aspects of attaining mesos. Some people are really trash at playing the market, others just want to grind their way all the way.

    A Pre-BB was probably only possible because of how big the community was. (I only got to watch my cousins play at the time)

    I think in any of these places: Reboot, Non-Reboot, and Pre-BB, being a casual was still enough to progress through. I mean I don’t get the intensity of Pre-BB but I imagine on the scale of the “best” to “casuals”, it should be near the same as today. So pretty much any of these servers we play in aren’t hardcore. Unless you’re talking about L@B.
    darik
  • StarryKnightStarryKnight
    Reactions: 1,725
    Posts: 118
    Member
    edited March 2019
    Reboot is harder, but not for any reason mentioned. It's harder because the 'hump' which turns the game into "easy mode", is much higher and much more difficult to get past on reboot than it is in regular servers. The hump being the point at which you can OHKO mobs on the best training maps. There is a significant amount of time needed to be invested in order to crest that hill in Reboot. On a regular server, you could reach something comparable to what took over a year in Reboot, in a few weeks, provided you're willing to spend enough money.

    Reboot might *seem* easier to outsiders, because the people for whom the game is "easy" have already spent hundreds to thousands of hours playing, farming, collecting, min-maxing, etc, but keep in mind that they also tend to be younger people without significant obligations, low incomes and ample amounts of free time (college students for example). That doesn't mean the game is easy, it means the people you're using as examples are a very small minority with lives that allow significantly more investment in the game than other people can, or are willing, to spend. I.E. You're comparing the elite player with the casual player, and then suggesting that the game is easy for the casuals because its easy for the elites.

    To be fair, after you've overcome the aforementioned hump, reboot is definitely *faster* to level, but that doesn't mean easier. Remember that the hump is significantly more difficult to overcome in reboot. But yes, in the specific case of players being able to ohko end game training maps, the reboot player will always level faster. This is because leveling at this stage has more to do with spawn rate and monster EXP, than the player. Aside from how efficient a player trains, or how long a player trains, the player is essentially irrelevant. Whichever player gets more EXP for a given amount of mobs/time will level faster, period. Personally I think 2x cash shop coupons should work on regular servers after level 250, but that's just my opinion.

    I'll happily grant that free to play, on a pay to win server, is the hardest. But that's kind of intentional. Outside of wanting the challenge, there is very little incentive, or reason, to try and play as a f2p on a pay to win server. Mad respect to anyone who succeeds in that venture. I started playing back in 2006, and back then, the game used to be much more free2play friendly, the cash shop was a thing that provided convenience, advantages and vanity, but was not a necessary part of progression. With the essential nature of cubes in end-game gear, the cash shop is no longer an optional thing, its now an essential part of gear progression that must be completed at some point in order to overcome the hump.

    I transitioned to reboot after spending a hundred dollars in NX during a double miracle time event, and ended the day with a single legendary potential-ed item. To put that into perspective, there are 22 potential-able items that can be equipped simultaneously. It doesn't take a mathematician to see that the cost of full legendary potential gear on a regular server would cost well over 2000 dollars, and that's just for regular potential, not bonus potential, and that's during an event where its suppose to be significantly easier to tier up.

    You could argue that the game provides master, meister, and 5 red and black cubes a month via maple points, which could get a player to legendary without spending money, but the fact is those items are far too rare to be a viable option. It takes an average of 35 black cubes to rank up to legendary (~5 months using only free ones from maple points), and could take another hundred red/black/meister cubes to get a useful roll on that legendary piece of gear (~1 day to ~1.5years, per item). How many meisters do you get, on average, per month? How many months do you think it would take, using only freely available cubes, to get legendary potentials, and good rolls, on all 22 pieces of gear? As you can guess, we're talking something on the order of decades for a free-to-play person to accomplish this on a regular server. Sound fun?

    There's a reason diamond MVP status costs 600 dollars a month.

    Finally, Lab server is not that difficult once you figure it out. Spend 700nx on the potion pot, Scroll all your accessories for 9999 HP and you're basically set up for success. Do all the sat and sunday monster parks you can for 1.5x and 2x exp coupons, and you'll be 150>1>200 in no time.
    Merphistdarik
  • AggraphineAggraphine
    Reactions: 19,405
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    edited March 2019
    Lab was trivial once I gathered up a full abso set and traced all of my crap until max hp and dumped the rest of the traces into mainstat. Though a dark knight was pretty much ezmode on there. It was a fun experience for a couple of weeks though, and I'd definitely enjoy it making a comeback at some point.
  • SlicedTimeSlicedTime
    Reactions: 1,720
    Posts: 105
    Member
    edited March 2019
    EMS's Supreme would make a nice challenge world. It would need a bit of skill rebalancing to make characters with mobbing skills playable though, but at its core, it was fun and sufficiently challenging.
  • FuhreakFuhreak
    Reactions: 6,920
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    edited March 2019
    Finally, Lab server is not that difficult once you figure it out. Spend 700nx on the potion pot, Scroll all your accessories for 9999 HP and you're basically set up for success. Do all the sat and sunday monster parks you can for 1.5x and 2x exp coupons, and you'll be 150>1>200 in no time.
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    Lab was trivial once I gathered up a full abso set and traced all of my crap until max hp and dumped the rest of the traces into mainstat. Though a dark knight was pretty much ezmode on there. It was a fun experience for a couple of weeks though, and I'd definitely enjoy it making a comeback at some point.

    I went into lab server thinking it would be hard. After entering the first map and seeing all the drops on the ground, that idea went out the window.
    Lab server could be made into a harder version of itself, but as it was, it was the easiest server of them all. An absolute cake-walk.
    I'd still like to see a version without the insane loot-drops and instant win button shop.
  • AggraphineAggraphine
    Reactions: 19,405
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    edited March 2019
    Fuhreak wrote: »
    I went into lab server thinking it would be hard. After entering the first map and seeing all the drops on the ground, that idea went out the window.
    Lab server could be made into a harder version of itself, but as it was, it was the easiest server of them all. An absolute cake-walk.
    I'd still like to see a version without the insane loot-drops and instant win button shop.

    It had what it did, the shop with flames and nodestones specifically, because it was a time-limited event. Anything you'd do to make it more permanent would, in essence, create something similar to Path of Exile's challenge league setup, with SSF being reboot and SSFHC being this other thing. It would pretty much be a reboot clone. I don't think it should be made permanent, but the event running again would definitely be fun.
  • Roni777Roni777
    Reactions: 1,180
    Posts: 256
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    edited March 2019
    @Merphist Yes. Normal server mostly rely on how good you are at merchanting. Merchanting provide players with shortcut to be the strongest as long as get the grasp of it. Another shortcut is to use Cash. I won't say normal server hardest, but it create a huge barrier for people who doesn't know how to merchant and who doesn't use Cash to play. And in the long run, when new equips are released or any new feature / content are introduced, there always be a setback or disadvantage for Non-Cash player since you have to spend more cash for cubes and other stuff on the new equips. Non-Cash player in normal server will always be disadvantage especially on the long run. As new equips will always comes out and new contents too, the people who can pay more, wins, the people who doesn't use cash mostlikely will stay in the middle of the pack.

    On another perspective, in normal server after players learn how to merchant, they can easily reach mid game /end game by buying end game equips such as Arcane equips and become strong. In Reboot, it takes 4months+ or even years of farming to just get 1 Arcane equip. You have to put effort and time to improve. And furthermore, you have to learn how to farm mesos effectively on your class and finds out which maps is best to farm for your specific class. Another example, to even get clean Full Absolab equips, still takes 3 months + on reboot, but in normal server, as long as you have enough mesos, you can just buy them off through market.
  • FuhreakFuhreak
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    edited March 2019
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    It had what it did, the shop with flames and nodestones specifically, because it was a time-limited event. Anything you'd do to make it more permanent would, in essence, create something similar to Path of Exile's challenge league setup, with SSF being reboot and SSFHC being this other thing. It would pretty much be a reboot clone. I don't think it should be made permanent, but the event running again would definitely be fun.

    If Maplestory had the population for it, I think it could be fun. But as of right now, it doesn't. It had a bit more going for it than "reboot clone", however not much.
    It's fun but it's not unique enough to need its own server. (Not with this population, anyway.) I do want to see it return. It being made into a real server is just a dream within a dream.

  • zoutzakjezoutzakje
    Reactions: 1,380
    Posts: 118
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    edited March 2019
    I don't play reboot so i can not comment on that. I am however a non-reboot f2p player who sucks at playing the market. Making progress is hard. It's taken me 1 and a half year of quite active playing to get my main strong enough to join normal Lucid parties. And only as a golem killer so far.
    Ways to make mesos for me have been Gollux on mules, commerci (780-ish voyages on lith harbor), selling tyrant boots and absolab gear since I've been able to kill hmag and lomien. Also selling a variety of other stuff like gollux scroll service, rp service, cube service, dojo on main and mules, etc.
    I figured it's about time i get an umbra weapon. I've been saving up mesos for it slowly for months. Once the sup ring i got from a mule sells, I'll have 2/3 of the mesos required for a clean umbra dagger. Upgrading it will take forever.
    People always ask me why i grind without kish or frenzy. I tell them i can not justify spending the mesos on it, because there are so many other things i need mesos for. Levels will come eventually, gear upgrades will not. Luckily I've been able to get some free casts from nice guildies recently.
    In a game like maple, you gotta be happy with even the smallest improvements. I've given up long ago on getting any godly equips. Still i don't consider it hardcore, just hard. Hardcore would involve some kind of permadeath imo, and on a server not as easy as lab was.
  • JushiroNetJushiroNet
    Reactions: 6,160
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    edited March 2019
    Reboot is harder, but not for any reason mentioned. It's harder because the 'hump' which turns the game into "easy mode", is much higher and much more difficult to get past on reboot than it is in regular servers. The hump being the point at which you can OHKO mobs on the best training maps.

    Except you don't need to 1 shot to grind faster than in normal servers.

    The whole problem with reboot vs normal is that reboot has much more room to grow, while normal servers cap out early with our low health low exp enemies.

    Your whole point would only be true if you needed all this extra gear for the same exp, or in other words if reboot had HP increase but no exp increase.
    FuhreakStarryKnight
  • Roni777Roni777
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    edited March 2019
    @Zou. It is because there is a huge wall in front of f2p called Cash. The "hard mode" in normal server, because if people don;t have cash, hardly can jump over that wall. But in reboot, you don't need cash. All you need is to put on hard work + smart strategy how to farm a lot of mesos in shortest hour. and so you can improve and become strong. Mostly depends on yourself.

    Unfortunately, it is different on normal server. There is a thick wall that strict people to grow named cash. It is not because you are not trying hard enough, but because of that wall. Even farming won't help much since the inflation is high.

    I haven't played normal server for some time tho. But are there a way for free to play players to buy cubes and bpot cubes as many as they want without cash? and how hard is it to get 1 of the cube?