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only allowing positive criticism is a problem.

MidnightFoxMidnightFox
Reactions: 410
Posts: 17
Member
edited April 2017 in General Chat
Negative criticism is 100% needed to improve a game and a company as a whole. Only allowing positive just causes an echo chamber like nothing is wrong, when in fact reality is the opposite.

Quite frankly I've already quit, but recent..events..has caused me to come back to the forums to post again.

Comments

  • MidnightFoxMidnightFox
    Reactions: 410
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    Member
    edited April 2017
    quite frankly you're adults - it's time to start acting like it.
  • forumsareannoyingforumsareannoying
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    edited April 2017
    This is something that has been going on for quite some time. And in a past post, I even said that we will eventually arrive at the point we are now: where harsh words is what more and more people will resort to if Nexon does not start to take us seriously. Trying to silence us has clearly been a complete and utter failure and that is why we got 1L saying things will change for the better. Now because they want to make said changes.
  • AKradianAKradian
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    edited April 2017
    OneLetter didn't ask for "positive criticism". There is no such thing, in fact. I think you meant "positive feedback."

    What he did ask for is "constructive criticism."
    Generally speaking, constructive criticism is criticism that the target can learn from.

    For example, "You're an illiterate idiot!" is unconstructive because it's just an insult that doesn't explain what is wrong or how the target of the criticism can fix it.
    "You need to learn the difference between "there", "they're", and "their"" is constructive, because it tells the listener how they can improve. (Of course, many people on the internet, and in real life, don't know how to take constructive criticism, either, and get all defensive. But that's a different story).

    I'm all for constructive criticism.
    And I believe this community has offered a LOT of it to Nexon over the years, and nearly all of it was ignored. Which is what leads to outbreaks of frustration and unconstructive "hate-filled" criticism, which I, too, have been guilty of. Sometimes one feels there is nothing one can do but scream.
    I believe Nexon needs to look to itself for the reasons for such outbursts, especially when the person making them has a long history of mostly being on Nexon's side when other players made unreasonable demands, like Aggraphine does.
    If OneLetter's note means that Nexon is actually starting to do that, then maybe something good will come out of this debacle after all.
    JettLuvsUUzumeBaoDovvn
  • MidnightFoxMidnightFox
    Reactions: 410
    Posts: 17
    Member
    edited April 2017
    AKradian wrote: »
    OneLetter didn't ask for "positive criticism". There is no such thing, in fact. I think you meant "positive feedback."

    What he did ask for is "constructive criticism."
    Generally speaking, constructive criticism is criticism that the target can learn from.

    For example, "You're an illiterate idiot!" is unconstructive because it's just an insult that doesn't explain what is wrong or how the target of the criticism can fix it.
    "You need to learn the difference between "there", "they're", and "their"" is constructive, because it tells the listener how they can improve. (Of course, many people on the internet, and in real life, don't know how to take constructive criticism, either, and get all defensive. But that's a different story).

    I'm all for constructive criticism.
    And I believe this community has offered a LOT of it to Nexon over the years, and nearly all of it was ignored. Which is what leads to outbreaks of frustration and unconstructive "hate-filled" criticism, which I, too, have been guilty of. Sometimes one feels there is nothing one can do but scream.
    I believe Nexon needs to look to itself for the reasons for such outbursts, especially when the person making them has a long history of mostly being on Nexon's side when other players made unreasonable demands, like Aggraphine does.
    If OneLetter's note means that Nexon is actually starting to do that, then maybe something good will come out of this debacle after all.


    but constructive criticism is subjective.
  • AKradianAKradian
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    edited April 2017
    but constructive criticism is subjective.

    No, it's not. It's easy to tell whether criticism is constructive by checking whether it contains advice on how whatever is being criticized can be improved.
    For example:
    "This soup tastes wrong" is not constructive.
    "This soup needs more parsley" is constructive.
    You could disagree with it, of course. You might think that whatever is being criticized is not, in fact, in need of repair. Or you might think the fix being offered won't work, will make things worse, or is not feasible. That doesn't matter. What matters is the way things are presented: with or without advice (and I'm talking about real advice, not things like "get your head out of your <censored>").
    JettLuvsU
  • forumsareannoyingforumsareannoying
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    edited April 2017
    I mentioned this in another post but basically..... they're only doing this to cover their assess(I hope I don't get banned for someone interpretating this as being an insulting word, yolo). They haven't cared about our "constructive criticism" all these months/years but now that more than just the Nexon haters/bashers are coming together and putting pressure on them, they feel as though they have to do this.

    To me its insincere and feels forced, therefore, I do not receive the announcement with good intentions. I hope I don't get banned for sharing how I feel about this. -fingers crossed-
  • AKradianAKradian
    Reactions: 40,310
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    edited April 2017
    I mentioned this in another post but basically..... they're only doing this to cover their assess(I hope I don't get banned for someone interpretating this as being an insulting word, yolo). They haven't cared about our "constructive criticism" all these months/years but now that more than just the Nexon haters/bashers are coming together and putting pressure on them, they feel as though they have to do this.

    To me its insincere and feels forced, therefore, I do not receive the announcement with good intentions. I hope I don't get banned for sharing how I feel about this. -fingers crossed-

    Would you have preferred that they keep quiet, or keep locking threads and banning people, until the forums became empty?

    Yes, the promise of better communication is forced, and it remains to be seen what will come of it. But it's still an acknowledgement that things are not the way they should be. That's a step forward.
    JettLuvsU
  • SorrowSorrow
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    edited April 2017
    What they're referring to is criticism performed with the intention to harm someone, derogate and destroy someone's creation, prestige, reputation and self-esteem.

    How do you give constructive criticism?
    1.) You start off by focusing on the strengths — what you like about the item in question.
    2.) Then, you provide the criticism — things you didn’t like; the areas of improvement.
    3.) Lastly, you round off the feedback with (a) a reiteration of the positive comments you gave at the beginning and (b) the positive results that can be expected if the criticism is acted upon.

    Here’s an example: you want to critique someone on their website. Here’s how PIP can be used:

    1.) First layer, “P” for Positive, where you talk about what you like:
    “Great website! I love the overall layout and how user-friendly it is. The menu is easily accessible. The overall design is nice and pleasing to the eye, and consistent with your brand. I found the intro video helpful in giving me an overview of what you do.”

    2.) Second layer, “I” for Improve, where you talk about the areas of improvement:
    “However, I thought that there are two things that can be better. Firstly, there is a lot of content in the sidebar that clutters up the usage experience. Perhaps if the sidebar content can be narrowed down to the key things, it would make it easier to navigate. Secondly, the font size is too small for me. I found it hard to read as I had to keep squinting.”

    3.) Last layer, “P” for Positive, where you reiterate the positive points and the positive results to be expected when the improvement areas are worked on:
    “Overall, great work. I love what you’ve done with the design, layout, and intro video. I think if the sidebar clutter can be removed and the font size can be increased, it’d really create a fantastic usage experience for any visitor.”
    JettLuvsUAlexF
  • forumsareannoyingforumsareannoying
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    edited April 2017
    AlexF wrote: »

    This is a little bit of backward thinking:

    We all wanted a reply, hence why people put pressure in the first place. Then, the minute we get a reply to the feedback, you're not happy with it. How else is somebody to suppose to reply to the criticism? I would say let's wait and see what the more detailed response contains before making assumptions on the sincerity of the post.

    Also, you know you're not going to get banned for voicing your general concerns. I'm not sure if you're trying to be funny or not...

    You're right, I should be happy with them giving us a response. I just had a deja vu moment when I wrote that, and remembered the previous times when they said similar things but nothing(or very little) came out of it. And I was trying to be funny with the last part, I see now that it wasn't all that funny.
    AKradian wrote: »

    Would you have preferred that they keep quiet, or keep locking threads and banning people, until the forums became empty?

    Yes, the promise of better communication is forced, and it remains to be seen what will come of it. But it's still an acknowledgement that things are not the way they should be. That's a step forward.

    I wonder if the hardcore Nexon supporters would still feel the same if they were the only ones left in the forums... but no I would not have preferred that and I digress from that last post I made. Let's just see what comes out of this(including your continued and justified request to have public access to the information in the old forums).
  • SorrowSorrow
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    edited April 2017
    I hope they increase the severity of punishments relating to harassment/worthless posting/etc... along with this new policy. or They could honestly even just add a new forum section for people to crap post there.