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Remove Potential Level Tiers

fidgetspinnerACEfidgetspinnerACE
Reactions: 1,465
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edited July 2019 in Suggestions, Feedback, and Requests
I think it's been time enough that it is no longer necessary to have 3 tiers of potentials separated by levels. All these equips that can't be anviled or worn due to poor stats and stars just feels like a waste. Before anyone says players would get too powerful in the early levels, that's like saying being overpowered in the tutorial. With how fast players can level in addition to content being focused on lvl 200+, it essentially balances itself in this regard.

Comments

  • HHG1HHG1
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    edited July 2019
    Why has it been enough time? What does time have to do with this? People are supposed to progress beyond their initial equips regardless. That is why the higher level equipment has higher stats, potential, flames, stars and offer better set effects than the lower level equipment.
    The star enhancement cost and potential reveal cost is also based on the level of the item. Level is lower, cost is lower, so you get lower stats.
    I don't see how it "balances itself" to get rid of everything that balances equipment meta throughout the game. You just want even more OP level 0+ training gear for mules.
    Gendered anvils is another topic.
  • fidgetspinnerACEfidgetspinnerACE
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    edited July 2019
    HHG1 wrote: »
    Why has it been enough time? What does time have to do with this? People are supposed to progress beyond their initial equips regardless. That is why the higher level equipment has higher stats, potential, flames, stars and offer better set effects than the lower level equipment.
    The star enhancement cost and potential reveal cost is also based on the level of the item. Level is lower, cost is lower, so you get lower stats.
    I don't see how it "balances itself" to get rid of everything that balances equipment meta throughout the game. You just want even more OP level 0+ training gear for mules.
    Gendered anvils is another topic.

    Your implying as if it sounds like I have a nefarious purpose than just wanting level 0~130 equips having more relevance, so let me explain myself more. Previously, equips were progressed every 10 levels because it took much more effort to level, so they felt like genuine milestones. You knew who the high levels were. It's still like that today, but with a smaller equip pool. Until absos or arcanes, pensalirs are the easiest common gear versus best stats for a beginning character. Sure, no ones going to follow optimal routes all the time, but the ease and abundance of pensalir quite literally nullifies most uses for lower leveled gear. Progress beyond initial equips is one thing, but your talking about multiple groups of equips people just gloss over. Putting aside pensalir, a player can literally stick with their beginning gear for a long time before even needing to switch into something new. My solution isn't perfect either, but with some low level equips being unavailable as drops or being craftable, it's a piece of Maple history being thrown out the door. They literally serve little purpose than for helping beginning characters or for anviling, and you know the complication of gender and top/bottom/overall restrictions with that.

    I did forget that levels being lower means lower starforce and potential re-roll cost, so to remedy this discrepancy, have the cost of low level equips be matched with higher leveled equips. I also understand that high leveled gear needs to be justified with the difficulty versus power in getting them, so maybe there should be a clear potential power divide between things that are lvl 0~149, lvl 150~199, and lvl 200+ but not lvl 0~30, lvl 31~70, lvl 71~150, and lvl 151+. May or may not leave starforce levels the way they are, since beyond 15 stars gives atk/matk.
  • MiraMira
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    edited July 2019
    That defeats the whole purpose of an MMO in regards to gear progression. Why should someone wearing level 50 items be even remotely similar to someone wearing level 150 items ?
  • HHG1HHG1
    Reactions: 5,986
    Posts: 780
    Member, Private Tester
    edited July 2019
    Your implying as if it sounds like I have a nefarious purpose than just wanting level 0~130 equips having more relevance, so let me explain myself more. Previously, equips were progressed every 10 levels because it took much more effort to level, so they felt like genuine milestones. You knew who the high levels were. It's still like that today, but with a smaller equip pool. Until absos or arcanes, pensalirs are the easiest common gear versus best stats for a beginning character. Sure, no ones going to follow optimal routes all the time, but the ease and abundance of pensalir quite literally nullifies most uses for lower leveled gear. Progress beyond initial equips is one thing, but your talking about multiple groups of equips people just gloss over. Putting aside pensalir, a player can literally stick with their beginning gear for a long time before even needing to switch into something new. My solution isn't perfect either, but with some low level equips being unavailable as drops or being craftable, it's a piece of Maple history being thrown out the door. They literally serve little purpose than for helping beginning characters or for anviling, and you know the complication of gender and top/bottom/overall restrictions with that.

    I did forget that levels being lower means lower starforce and potential re-roll cost, so to remedy this discrepancy, have the cost of low level equips be matched with higher leveled equips. I also understand that high leveled gear needs to be justified with the difficulty versus power in getting them, so maybe there should be a clear potential power divide between things that are lvl 0~149, lvl 150~199, and lvl 200+ but not lvl 0~30, lvl 31~70, lvl 71~150, and lvl 151+. May or may not leave starforce levels the way they are, since beyond 15 stars gives atk/matk.
    The 0-130 equips are relevant. For characters level 0-130.
    The pensalir outfit becoming the new basic look of earlygame players is just what happens as the game progresses and adds new content and increases levels. Yes, there is a lot of equipment that players gloss over, but that all depends on their playstyle and funding. The equips being available for those levels is a good thing, not a bad one. They are milestones nonetheless. Then you move on.

    If you blindly match the cost of reveal and starforce throughout all levels then it'll either be extremely expensive to progress for early-game players, or entirely too cheap for endgame. That is why it is balanced as it is currently, also providing a larger mesosink for endgame players.
    It's clear you didn't think this through beyond potential tiers.
    What about flame tiers. What about equipment stats. What about enhancement stats. What about spell trace tiers.
    Do you want every equip 0-130 to be on par with pensalir in every way. What about top+bottom VS overall then. What about set effects. What about availability. What about frozen gear. What about secondaries. What about accessories. What about hearts. What about emblems.
    These are all things that are balanced by level tiers in one way or another and that you choose to abandon as you reach the next level tier to gain the advantages that comes with progressing higher and higher in the game.

    The progression for most people in lower levels right now is either they have prepared mule gear, or they go through the Tot 20-60 gear, then move onto whatever drops, usually they're entirely switched out in the 80-140 range depending on if they get good flames or if they can afford starforcing new equips. Then they move onto the more midgame-endgame gear (CRA/Gollux/SW/Abso/Arcane).

    Your "problem" is a cosmetic and nostalgia driven one. Not something to entirely mess up the gear progression and balance over. Go to the numerous threads about gendered anvils. As you said, it's generally only top/bottom/overalls that suffer from it.
    If you absolutely want to wear level 40 gear at 200 to preserve the "Maple history" then nobody is stopping you. You'll just be weaker than those who follow the natural gear progression of the game.
    Fuhreak
  • fidgetspinnerACEfidgetspinnerACE
    Reactions: 1,465
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    Member
    edited July 2019
    The 0-130 equips are relevant. For characters level 0-130.
    The pensalir outfit becoming the new basic look of earlygame players is just what happens as the game progresses and adds new content and increases levels. Yes, there is a lot of equipment that players gloss over, but that all depends on their playstyle and funding. The equips being available for those levels is a good thing, not a bad one. They are milestones nonetheless. Then you move on.

    If you blindly match the cost of reveal and starforce throughout all levels then it'll either be extremely expensive to progress for early-game players, or entirely too cheap for endgame. That is why it is balanced as it is currently, also providing a larger mesosink for endgame players.
    It's clear you didn't think this through beyond potential tiers.
    What about flame tiers. What about equipment stats. What about enhancement stats. What about spell trace tiers.
    Do you want every equip 0-130 to be on par with pensalir in every way. What about top+bottom VS overall then. What about set effects. What about availability. What about frozen gear. What about secondaries. What about accessories. What about hearts. What about emblems.
    These are all things that are balanced by level tiers in one way or another and that you choose to abandon as you reach the next level tier to gain the advantages that comes with progressing higher and higher in the game.

    The progression for most people in lower levels right now is either they have prepared mule gear, or they go through the Tot 20-60 gear, then move onto whatever drops, usually they're entirely switched out in the 80-140 range depending on if they get good flames or if they can afford starforcing new equips. Then they move onto the more midgame-endgame gear (CRA/Gollux/SW/Abso/Arcane).

    Your "problem" is a cosmetic and nostalgia driven one. Not something to entirely mess up the gear progression and balance over. Go to the numerous threads about gendered anvils. As you said, it's generally only top/bottom/overalls that suffer from it.
    If you absolutely want to wear level 40 gear at 200 to preserve the "Maple history" then nobody is stopping you. You'll just be weaker than those who follow the natural gear progression of the game.

    ...Wow, you are absolutely right. I wasn't thinking through all these things and was just bringing down everyone else to my own warped, flagrant restrictions. I should just learn to move on and not place such importance on items. Like Tyrants or Sweetwater becoming less relevant. Or the day when Arcanes do either - I won't miss farming Droplets. I kinda wish they'd just give us frozen gear or whatever good unique equips until we reach CRA or something, so that there'd be less clutter for more useful inventory space. I wouldn't even be sore if they just unanimously decide on deleting all equips from lvl 0 to 120; except things like the Greed Pendant. That's easy to get and has a core function to the item, and since it's level 75 can reach good potential lines. Of course, it's not BIS either because the Starforce and stats are restricted; clearly and deliberately designed due to its level thanks to Nexon (as you've mentioned). Dragonic weapons being knelled out shouldn't bother me either, since they were just a prototype for set effects. I'm sure newer players will appreciate and find uses for these though, since despite leveling past all these equips, variety is always welcome. It must be hard keeping new players motivated and feeling rewarded with their time. It's good to ease them into the long road to fulfilling progress with all the content Maple has to offer. I guess I just lost sight of that since I usually gate myself to Arcane River nowadays.

    Yea, I guess I was just being foolish not thinking about the damage and powercreep. Nexon has done a good job balancing player powers on an obvious horizontal trajectory, my overboard suggestions really have no insight behind on all their careful hard work and progress. I understand now and should just focus on getting better damage than taking a nostalgic trip using old equips, that's what cash shop items are for. I'm sure Nexon will eventually resolve the gender and top/bottom/overall thing with anvils.

  • PetalmagicPetalmagic
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    Posts: 1,572
    Member
    edited July 2019
    I think it's been time enough that it is no longer necessary to have 3 tiers of potentials separated by levels. All these equips that can't be anviled or worn due to poor stats and stars just feels like a waste. Before anyone says players would get too powerful in the early levels, that's like saying being overpowered in the tutorial. With how fast players can level in addition to content being focused on lvl 200+, it essentially balances itself in this regard.

    I mean...wouldn't it just be easier to loosen anvil restrictions to get your gear without trying to...change gear progression as we know it?

    Possible Cons I see with your new system:
    - It becomes fundamentally harder to get good potential since in theory any piece of gear can have ANY tier, which would include low tiers for higher leveled gear. While it may even out all gear, it also makes it like 50x harder to get to the same progression in potentials as the current system.
    -Other systems of progression would have to get scrapped (I.E. Star tiers and flame tiers). This system overhaul would...be pretty damn harsh. Id expect Big-Bang levels of salt through the community.
    -Power creep becomes even MORE noticeable due to the need of good potentials and you basically added all the lower tiered potentials into a pool, making a 3-lined gear that much harder to GET.
    -Cubing costs go up. While this is good for Nexon...it would be bad for Reg server players...this leads also to possible market inflation because of the cost of making a perfected gear is so much higher.

    Overall it looks like a bad idea, so I am going to say no thanks.
  • HHG1HHG1
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    edited July 2019
    I wouldn't even be sore if they just unanimously decide on deleting all equips from lvl 0 to 120

    This is probably closer to what would actually happen if Nexon took your "there are too many unused equips" suggestion to heart though. If they wanted to make it even more streamlined they could probably decide to go for something like; 10 gear -> level 30 Pearl set -> level 100 Frozen set. It ignores shoes and gloves but you can get some from PQ and questlines.
    I wouldn't be particularly keen on that either. Upgrade through looting is still an important part of the game. The clutter does provide new players with extra income from NPCing or extracting the equips they don't need. It would also make the crafting menu very bare.

    Just saying that's the more logical action you'd see from Nexon if something is deemed obsolete. They wouldn't buff it and make numerous adjustment to balancing, they'd remove or replace it with something that already works with the current system.