Suggestions and Feedbacks - 2H Hero's End-Game

Jorjax

^ Title.

To make it short, the link below from reddit will explain the different between the current 1H + Shield vs 2H + Secondary.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Maplestory/comments/41jv4q/the_comprehensive_2h_sword_vs_1h_sword_shield/

2H Hero should be able to break attack speed cap like 1H +Shield to open up more game play styles rather than focusing one certain type of mechanism (Speaking toward 1H + Shield for end-game). To make this even more clear, 1H + Shield setup shouldn't be the only option for Hero end-game.

In fact, there should be a different range poke grasp for both 1H + Shield and 2H + Secondary setup. It doesn't really make sense if 1H can reach as long as 2H weapon.

(Try to set it in the reality, it wouldn't make sense that a short sword that can stab someone from 30 inches away compared to a Long sword that can poke at the same length. Unless that person have an extremely long ARM).

Additionally, almost all warrior classes other than Dawn warrior is the only class that can break attack speed (0) regardless of their weapon types; either 1H or 2H. (In which, doesn't make sense and they can outperformed than most warrior classes like Dark Knight, Hero, Kaiser, etc. Plus, their skills animation is 0.4x time faster than all warrior classes (except Kaiser)

Suggested rework for 2H Hero attack speed
Option 1: Add +1 attack speed passive to 4th Job weapon mastery.
Option 2: Add +1 attack speed to their secondary due to no-scrolling allowed for secondary equipment.
Option 3: Add +1 attack speed under enrage stage for more bossing viability.

AKradian

Once the damage cap is removed in V, there is no longer any need to break speed cap to be "viable".
2H weapons have a 10% higher multiplier to balance them with the faster 1H weapons.

Yakudle

akradian
Once the damage cap is removed in V, there is no longer any need to break speed cap to be "viable".
2H weapons have a 10% higher multiplier to balance them with the faster 1H weapons.
who knows if they even add that in the end?
anyways i support the suggestion heros need more than just 10% higher multiplier meh~

Jorjax

AKradian said:

Once the damage cap is removed in V, there is no longer any need to break speed cap to be "viable".
2H weapons have a 10% higher multiplier to balance them with the faster 1H weapons.

That is false,

After 5th job damage cap removed, 1H + Shield will still outperformed 2H + Secondary due to their (scrolled shield + Tier 4 potential) regarding to Terminus Defender.

In fact, 10% damage multiplier is not much compared to 400+ stats bonus from 350-500% STR multiplier from Primed Terminus Defender and speed advantage late game for 1H + Shield setup. This included and mentioned from the reddit link that i provided, higher attack speed will always outperformed any types of weapon.

AKradian

Yakudle said:

akradian
Once the damage cap is removed in V, there is no longer any need to break speed cap to be "viable".
2H weapons have a 10% higher multiplier to balance them with the faster 1H weapons.
who knows if they even add that in the end?
anyways i support the suggestion heros need more than just 10% higher multiplier meh~

Why wouldn't they?
The removal of the damage cap is a central part of KMS' V patch (5th job).
If, against all odds, GMS decides not to include this part of the patch, then we can start clamoring for other balancing factors.

On the other hand, if they do incorporate V exactly as KMS did, and GMS accepts this suggestion of making 2H faster, then 1H becomes "non-viable" because it will always do 10% DPS less at the same funding level.

So let's first wait and see what V brings.

As for other things Heroes need... that's a topic for another thread.

Yakudle

arkadian
its not the first time they do something like that and you know it
just look we missed the auction house and so many maps already even some systems are out
the "removal" of the damage cap its not even true they just increased the cap once again
kms player has way more things to get stronger than gms will ever have
i dont see a problem with giving the heros 1+ attack speed for a short period of time maybe 60s
V its not even here yet and the worst of it is that gms never tells you completely what they have introduced only the main things they never tell
if your main character its nerfed or buffed one thing that that its not going to change its the "power up" everyone its going to get because i still
see that as a new "hyper skill" attemp but right now not in the future some need a power up anyways

AKradian

Problem is, if you give 2h heroes the same speed as 1h, then 1h becomes "non-viable".

AKradian

Jorjax said:

AKradian said:

Once the damage cap is removed in V, there is no longer any need to break speed cap to be "viable".
2H weapons have a 10% higher multiplier to balance them with the faster 1H weapons.

That is false,

After 5th job damage cap removed, 1H + Shield will still outperformed 2H + Secondary due to their (scrolled shield + Tier 4 potential) regarding to Terminus Defender.

In fact, 10% damage multiplier is not much compared to 400+ stats bonus from 350-500% STR multiplier from Primed Terminus Defender and speed advantage late game for 1H + Shield setup. This included and mentioned from the reddit link that i provided, higher attack speed will always outperformed any types of weapon.

The reddit link you provided was written long before V hit KMS.

Your primed Terminus Defender gives 100 raw stat. Assuming you are at endgame, all your gear is primed and at least 12-starred, you have at least 2500 STR before any %str potentials. So this 100 STR on your terminus adds just 4% to your overall STR. This, plus the speed advantage, balances out with the 10% damage multiplier.

Jorjax

AKradian said:

Problem is, if you give 2h heroes the same speed as 1h, then 1h becomes "non-viable".

Let break this down shall we?

(Damage formula = Weapon multiplier * Stats * Attack) from reddit link above.

1H + Shield (Included Aquarius Transposed to SW Hat + Primed Terminus Defender (13/13/10 Main + 10/10/10 Bpot)
(1.20) x (24,125) x (1,891) = 54,744,450

2H + Secondary (Included Aquarius Transposed to SW Hat) + Secondary (12+9+9 Main + 9/9/9 Bpot)
(1.34) x (23,019) x (1,770) = 54,596,464

Even if i had 12/12/9 Main, it wouldn't make any different compared to primed scroll Terminus Defender. Therefore, 1H + Shield yield greater factor than 2H + Secondary even if we were to hit cap attack speed (0).


Then again... Hero's end-game shouldn't be only and mainly focusing 1H + Shield only.

Yakudle

Dont forget this the changes of 5th job are also things that could change at any moment just look at this example
many KMS users were asking to nerf Demon slayer
just look at the dps lists how can kinesis be the 1st in the list of dps and evan its in the top 5 dang i guess stand korean players also are part of the issues...maybe they did vote to nerf classes over there and the blows came to gms aswell uh?

Ivangold

@Yakudle
You know the DPS list isn't made by nexon right? so it have erros, and also i don't recall they nerfing Demon slayer that much(or if even anything at all in the patchs...).
And they wouldn't give +1att speed to 2hsword just because it's better here in GMS(not that much) using the 1h+shield, also in KMS they have shields up to lv140 and no primes like here, so unless koreans ask for this i hardly doubt it would happen.

Also even tought they give attention to whales, they hardly or wouldn't benefit 2h just because it's OP to use 1h+shield for whales....

Question: does flames effect the secondarys? i mean it could be valid if flames only affect shields in KMS....(besides the 25stars).

Yakudle

iavngold
so unless koreans ask for this i hardly doubt it would happen
well i think they have way bigger odds than gms players to get the stuff they want being honest
You know the DPS list isn't made by nexon right? so it have erros, and also i don't recall they nerfing Demon slayer that much(or if even anything at all in the patchs...).
tell me when i said nexon did make any dps list to begin with~ even if they had the time it would be not accurate regardless
if you think am lying... well go and play kms too see for yourself then?

gamechanger

AKradian said:

Once the damage cap is removed in V, there is no longer any need to break speed cap to be "viable".
2H weapons have a 10% higher multiplier to balance them with the faster 1H weapons.

I'm sure someone has done the math, but I haven't seen it yet. This would really depend on how much faster you attack with the increased attack speed from 1H weapons. If its only like 5% faster then yes the 2H weapon will win every time. But if it approaches 10% faster then I'm not convinced a flat 10% damage increase will always be better

Ivangold

Attack speeds bonus in general give you 5%~~10% extra damage, also a hero KMS player told me it's not viable to use 1h+sword(and there you can't put flames on secondary weapons), even tought you get the +1att speed....(a kms player with youtuber name of Teeheehoo)

Also is it really a 10%increase damage 1h>to>2h sword?