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Lotus Lasers

SausageMuffinSausageMuffin
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edited January 2020 in Suggestions, Feedback, and Requests
I don't know if it's just me, but when I enter Lotus, there have been multiple times where I have spawned on top of the spinning laser upon entering the boss fight and it leaves basically no time to react to this, leading to a death. This takes away one entire life from the run at the very beginning of the game not due to your own mistakes but because of poor design. They should seriously add a delay of a couple seconds when a player enters the room just so that the player has time to be able to position or react to the lasers instead of dying immediately upon entering the fight.
MorningAfterSevendarik

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  • YinYangXYinYangX
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    edited January 2020
    I don't know if it's just me, but when I enter Lotus, there have been multiple times where I have spawned on top of the spinning laser upon entering the boss fight and it leaves basically no time to react to this, leading to a death. This takes away one entire life from the run at the very beginning of the game not due to your own mistakes but because of poor design. They should seriously add a delay of a couple seconds when a player enters the room just so that the player has time to be able to position or react to the lasers instead of dying immediately upon entering the fight.

    Jw, do you hear the lasers before the visual screen loads? Because I think that means you lag in (server loads your character into the map at the center and spawns laser in "X" shape, but things are slow on the receiving end so your computer doesn't show you until a seconds later, at which point the lasers have moved to "+" shape and killed you).
    I could be wrong, but that's what I notice when I lag into Lotus, I get killed by laser, and if I don't lag, I can avoid the spawn lasers.
    FuhreakWONDERGUYMorningAfterSeven
  • FuhreakFuhreak
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    edited January 2020
    The problem is that lag may or may not affect you at given times of the day, or maybe the internet gods just hate you.
    Either way, Nexon really should change all boss rooms to load first and give players a chance to hit a promt that spawns the boss.
    This is done with several of the game's bosses and I don't know why they stopped this trend.
    YinYangXSausageMuffinMorningAfterSeven
  • JushiroNetJushiroNet
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    edited January 2020
    There's many ways to potentially solve this issue.

    What if resistance link activated at the start of every boss phase? This would give you 1-8 seconds depending on the rank to position.

    After all it's not just lotus laser in phase 1. Will in phase 3 sometimes decides to white eye stomp you as soon as you load in.
    MorningAfterSeven
  • AggraphineAggraphine
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    edited January 2020
    Fuhreak wrote: »
    The problem is that lag may or may not affect you at given times of the day, or maybe the internet gods just hate you.
    Either way, Nexon really should change all boss rooms to load first and give players a chance to hit a promt that spawns the boss.
    This is done with several of the game's bosses and I don't know why they stopped this trend.

    Seems to have stopped after root abyss. Everything past that the boss is just freely spawned and starts in on you the second you enter, damn the loading times.
    MorningAfterSeven
  • WONDERGUYWONDERGUY
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    edited January 2020
    its not due to poor design of the boss
    loading time lag/stuck cant be predicted, its about nexonNA renting toaster server and your internet/pc lag
    known also as client side/server side issue
    just like at lucid when dragon in Phase 1 show the sign to quick and you are dead allthough you see the dragon in air and about to land....
    also same at cra queen spit that alltho you get far from queen servers fails to see on time and you are dead
  • FuhreakFuhreak
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    edited January 2020
    WONDERGUY wrote: »
    its not due to poor design of the boss
    loading time lag/stuck cant be predicted, its about nexonNA renting toaster server and your internet/pc lag
    known also as client side/server side issue
    just like at lucid when dragon in Phase 1 show the sign to quick and you are dead allthough you see the dragon in air and about to land....
    also same at cra queen spit that alltho you get far from queen servers fails to see on time and you are dead

    Loading time lag can easily be circumvented by having a pre-boss phase where an item has to be dropped or an NPC has to be clicked.
    The dying when coming in is absolutely poor design. There's no excuse for it when so many of the other bosses in the game avoid this issue.
    Zakum, Three out of the Four RA Bosses, Pink Bean, Arkarium, Papulatus, Ranmaru, Horntail. To name the ones I can think of off the top of my head.
    Server lag issues aside, loading time is an easily preventable event by just allowing people to decide when to spawn a boss in.
    SausageMuffinMorningAfterSevenSlicedTime
  • WONDERGUYWONDERGUY
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    edited January 2020
    Fuhreak wrote: »
    Loading time lag can easily be circumvented by having a pre-boss phase where an item has to be dropped or an NPC has to be clicked.
    The dying when coming in is absolutely poor design. There's no excuse for it when so many of the other bosses in the game avoid this issue.
    Zakum, Three out of the Four RA Bosses, Pink Bean, Arkarium, Papulatus, Ranmaru, Horntail. To name the ones I can think of off the top of my head.
    Server lag issues aside, loading time is an easily preventable event by just allowing people to decide when to spawn a boss in.

    it wont change the fact you get freeze/lag on first load no matter if its spawn directly when enter,drop item or click to spawn
    no boss avoid this issue all got it its just RNG hours when toaster server bad or a bit better

    almost all the boss you said got the issue lol (unless the one that are just hitbox lol )
    zakum ? lol its one of worse unless you brust 1shot (all know that 7/10times toaster servers fails to track your location and you die from hands )
    cra same i just said about queen,clown hats are as bad as zakum same at other pierre and vellum
    pinkbean DR that can get you kill because effects come early without actuly showing
    Papulatus lasers ?......
    yes you can say get good and 1shot em but thats not the point....

  • FuhreakFuhreak
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    edited January 2020
    @Wonderguy you missed the point.
    The point is that when a boss room has a chance to be loaded in, you can't continuously be attacked while you're still loading in assets.
    You're confusing LAG with LOADTIME. There is a huge difference. For people like me, that aren't on Bera on don't lag like there's no tomorrow, what you're talking about is almost a non-issue.
    However even if we don't lag, because of poor load times due to older computers, the bosses that start attacking as soon as you get into the room can kill us anyway.
    All the attacks you mention can be easily avoided if you aren't laggy. (Which is basically to say you aren't on Bera.)
  • WONDERGUYWONDERGUY
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    edited January 2020
    load time and lag its same they both go together or follow eachother
    server side/client side

    when server side lags/fails client side stays in black screen/loadtime untill server load all elements in meantime you get hit by the client side elements that dont see or able to know if you are laging/loading or just afk there

    when client side lags/fails server side either disconnects you or skip/glitch parts on your client (memory leak)
    Fuhreak wrote: »
    bosses that start attacking as soon as you get into the room can kill us anyway.
    on a good day this works fine you can land (load quick) and start att/escape laser etc etc
    but when server is "full" like 2x or there is mvp in your ch the lag/load time is bad

    we need better server and code redesign/optimize and i dont see any change soon or by nexonNA alone ...
  • FuhreakFuhreak
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    edited January 2020
    WONDERGUY wrote: »
    Fuhreak wrote: »
    bosses that start attacking as soon as you get into the room can kill us anyway.
    on a good day this works fine you can land (load quick) and start att/escape laser etc etc
    but when server is "full" like 2x or there is mvp in your ch the lag/load time is bad

    If they change it so that lasers do not spawn until you activate something like in the other bosses, it will never kill you while loading in.
    You could spend 10 full minutes loading in and the lasers will never kill you because they aren't active yet.
    Lag might be another issue, but it's not the one OP is talking about. I don't know your circumstances, but lag rarely ever affects me that badly.
    I'm guessing this is mostly due to decent internet/location/othervariables but there's absolutely nothing a "good day" can do about the load time.
    My computer is a potato. I could be on the server's network and still die to this. It's poor design and lag has nothing to do with it.
  • WONDERGUYWONDERGUY
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    edited January 2020
    Fuhreak wrote: »
    My computer is a potato. I could be on the server's network and still die to this. It's poor design and lag has nothing to do with it.
    what is load time then ? why its different for all that got the recommended pc spec/net speed?
    if its not connected to lag- server " busyness" such as 2x etc etc then it should be same load time each time you run and for all other that run
    i got friends that lag and got huge load time and some that quick load
    (with simular computer spec and net speed)

    mine load time its super bad ,bad all the way to good and i know each time what kind of load time i will get
    for example when its 2x mine load time its bad sometime super bad
    at active hours its bad/good ( if i reclient before each boss i can get it to good )

    at KMS i dont have such problems other then delayed loot because of ping sometime

    no matter how you change the mechanics to start the boss load time will be same for you as before unless they make change to comunication server-client better and optimized
  • FuhreakFuhreak
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    edited January 2020
    WONDERGUY wrote: »
    what is load time then ? why its different for all that got the recommended pc spec/net speed?

    Load time happens when a computer is loading assets. As for why computers of similar specs/speed load at different times, there are too many variables to list.
    Load time is how long it takes for you to load all the correct assets to enter a map. Lag has no effect on this it's all based on how fast your computer loads assets.
    While you are loading assets, the game is still going on in the background. You die because even though you can't see what is happening, the game's logic is running perfectly fine and you get hit by a laser that has yet to start rendering.
    There are plenty of other games with similar examples. You might start hearing sounds while on a loading screen, (Much like in YinYangX's example.) and even be able to press buttons and hear your character reacting to the inputs.
    This is because of how games are usually programmed. Code that handles game logic is separated from draw code.
    Without this separation you have a game that speeds up or slows down based on how fast it is rendering.
    If your game locks up and you end up dead in the very next frame, that isn't lag.
    That's render lag. Your computer is dropping frames, meaning you cannot see what is going on in the background.
    However, stuff is still going on. This is why you die even though your game is frozen.


    Here is a good sample which shows both types of lag.
    First, when the map is first entered there is render lag. You can hear the lasers start long before they actually show up on screen.
    You can also see the entire screen freeze for a fraction of a second. This is render lag. The computer is having trouble rendering and not able to properly show the laser.
    Shortly after this, around the 38 second mark, the laser jumps backwards by a good bit. The location of the laser on the client did not match up with that of the server. The client is most likely desynced from the render lag at the start, causing the laser to render in the incorrect location.
    We then see some more lag when the player completes their surprise mission around the 50 second mark this is also render lag, as everything seems to jump ahead.
    Again at the start of phase 2, 1:35, we see yet more render lag as the character is able to move to the center of the screen, yet several frames of this movement are dropped. They are able to move because the game, despite being frozen, is still running game logic, letting the server know what we're doing.

    Network lag is more easily seen at 4:00, 5:13, 6:32 (Maybe not this last one?) where the player dies after what appears to being outside of the hitbox. (Could just be a bad hitbox, but the one at 5:13 appears to be lag.)
    Network lag is more easily identified when there are no frame drops alongside of it. Unlike the examples in the earlier phases, little to no frames are dropped here. This means this is either the fault of network lag or bad hitboxes. Lotus killing players upon entering the map is due to render lag. Though it could be possible that the lasers teleport like in network lag when first entering the map, this is more likely due to render lag causing the laser position to be desynced like at the start of this video.

    Hopefully that clears up any misconception and you'll see why having the ability to spawn in a boss after you've loaded in is an important feature.
    As for lag that causes a map to load slower, it's most likely because the server hasn't told your client what map you just entered yet. Thus, there's nothing to load yet because your computer doesn't know what to do until the server tells it what map you're on.
    This type of lag is also helped by this by allowing you to get into a map before a boss is spawned. Then the game only has to sync things such as the laser/mob locations, rather than wait for you to get the packets telling you what map to go to and load the map.
    WONDERGUYSlicedTime