[New Users] Please note that all new users need to be approved before posting. This process can take up to 24 hours. Thank you for your patience.

Suicide Kanna Issues

SqurixSqurix
Reactions: 300
Posts: 9
Member
edited May 2019 in General Chat
I have been banned again due to suiciding on my kanna and so far i have heard of other people getting banned for the same reason, I think it is something that should be looked into due to the fact that having a suicide kanna at least currently is a major part of reboot until June 12th when the adventure update hits.

I also have a video of me getting banned for suiciding 2 weeks ago https://youtube.com/watch?v=lQdi2WFr5fs&t=11s

sadly since i got banned after i logged off this time i don't have a video of me getting banned after suiciding but i do have the video of me suciciding before i get off

Comments

  • PetalmagicPetalmagic
    Reactions: 7,640
    Posts: 1,571
    Member
    edited May 2019
    Spam deaths do trigger Auto ban, that's why most will space deaths out :T
  • LittleTLKLittleTLK
    Reactions: 1,350
    Posts: 86
    Member, Private Tester
    edited May 2019
    I used to spam deaths on low level mules to prevent overleveling so I could farm specific emobs for collection, but now I'm a bit afraid to do that.
    That's kind of a ridiculous autoban.
  • AggraphineAggraphine
    Reactions: 16,615
    Posts: 3,025
    Member
    edited May 2019
    LittleTLK wrote: »
    I used to spam deaths on low level mules to prevent overleveling so I could farm specific emobs for collection, but now I'm a bit afraid to do that.
    That's kind of a ridiculous autoban.

    Consider for a moment that bots suicide-kanna. Consider that there was, prior to it being patched, a hack to automate this. It becomes notably less ridiculous.
  • LittleTLKLittleTLK
    Reactions: 1,350
    Posts: 86
    Member, Private Tester
    edited May 2019
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    LittleTLK wrote: »
    I used to spam deaths on low level mules to prevent overleveling so I could farm specific emobs for collection, but now I'm a bit afraid to do that.
    That's kind of a ridiculous autoban.

    Consider for a moment that bots suicide-kanna. Consider that there was, prior to it being patched, a hack to automate this. It becomes notably less ridiculous.

    Having an auto-ban in place for behavior that can be easily replicated manually by legit players and that serves an innocent purpose IS ridiculous.
    Bots also mass sell etc/equip drops to NPCs. Should we auto-ban players that do that as well?

    Why does everything have to be a debate with you, btw? This is a casual forum. Chill.
  • AggraphineAggraphine
    Reactions: 16,615
    Posts: 3,025
    Member
    edited May 2019
    LittleTLK wrote: »
    Having an auto-ban in place for behavior that can be easily replicated manually by legit players and that serves an innocent purpose IS ridiculous.
    Bots also mass sell etc/equip drops to NPCs. Should we auto-ban players that do that as well?

    Why does everything have to be a debate with you, btw? This is a casual forum. Chill.

    bxOBVqV.png

    There's no way, from a software perspective, to differentiate between someone manually committing die and using some kind of bot program thing to do it. You can still do it, just don't kill yourself over and over quickly. Wait a bit.

    Why are you so adverse to having debates? No one is obligated in this life to agree with everything you say.
  • SqurixSqurix
    Reactions: 300
    Posts: 9
    Member
    edited May 2019
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    LittleTLK wrote: »
    Having an auto-ban in place for behavior that can be easily replicated manually by legit players and that serves an innocent purpose IS ridiculous.
    Bots also mass sell etc/equip drops to NPCs. Should we auto-ban players that do that as well?

    Why does everything have to be a debate with you, btw? This is a casual forum. Chill.

    bxOBVqV.png

    There's no way, from a software perspective, to differentiate between someone manually committing die and using some kind of bot program thing to do it. You can still do it, just don't kill yourself over and over quickly. Wait a bit.

    Why are you so adverse to having debates? No one is obligated in this life to agree with everything you say.

    Thank you for providing this where did u find it?
  • AggraphineAggraphine
    Reactions: 16,615
    Posts: 3,025
    Member
    edited May 2019
    A now-deleted reddit post that I took a screenshot of prior to its being nuked.
  • SqurixSqurix
    Reactions: 300
    Posts: 9
    Member
    edited May 2019
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    A now-deleted reddit post that I took a screenshot of prior to its being nuked.

    well im glad u have it saved because yeah that would have been good to know prior
  • SqurixSqurix
    Reactions: 300
    Posts: 9
    Member
    edited May 2019
    WPz8LJJ.png
  • NeospectorNeospector
    Reactions: 8,645
    Posts: 1,833
    Volunteer Forum Moderator
    edited May 2019
    Squrix wrote: »
    WPz8LJJ.png

    Nexon does not condone suiciding to maintain your level, and excessive suiciding has, in the past, led to bans because of how it's used by bots and hackers.
    Your best bet is, as the GM said, to play the game normally. If you have to ask if something is against the rules, the safest option is not to do it.

    Your only option is to keep appealing, but ultimately it's Nexon's decision as to whether you remain banned or not.
  • SqurixSqurix
    Reactions: 300
    Posts: 9
    Member
    edited May 2019
    Neospector wrote: »
    Squrix wrote: »
    WPz8LJJ.png

    Nexon does not condone suiciding to maintain your level, and excessive suiciding has, in the past, led to bans because of how it's used by bots and hackers.
    Your best bet is, as the GM said, to play the game normally. If you have to ask if something is against the rules, the safest option is not to do it.

    Your only option is to keep appealing, but ultimately it's Nexon's decision as to whether you remain banned or not.

    But i didn't ask if suiciding on a kanna is against the rules, also what about the 90% of the reboot community that also does it? Nexon also has not disclosed a firm stance on where suicide kanna stands so how are we as the community supposed to know if it is wrong to do so?
  • AggraphineAggraphine
    Reactions: 16,615
    Posts: 3,025
    Member
    edited May 2019
    I don't remember where, but I do recall someone saying that suicide kanna was not "the intended way to play" or something.
  • WiachuWiachu
    Reactions: 100
    Posts: 3
    Member
    edited May 2019
    Why are you suiciding on a lvl139 kanna? I wouldnt imagine going from 139-140 would take much more time than 5minutes. So to take yourself from 90%+ experience back down to 0% would be about 10 deaths. Watching your videos, you take more than 5minutes to go back down to 0% exp.
    How is that at all efficient, let alone, seem like normal gameplay? You are spending more of your time dieing than playing the game.
  • AggraphineAggraphine
    Reactions: 16,615
    Posts: 3,025
    Member
    edited May 2019
    Wiachu wrote: »
    Why are you suiciding on a lvl139 kanna? I wouldnt imagine going from 139-140 would take much more time than 5minutes. So to take yourself from 90%+ experience back down to 0% would be about 10 deaths. Watching your videos, you take more than 5minutes to go back down to 0% exp.
    How is that at all efficient, let alone, seem like normal gameplay? You are spending more of your time dieing than playing the game.

    It's to keep one's kanna within full-meso-drop range of whatever map they're farming in. Reboot's a pain in the ass, my man, and that's the biggest reason I've never been able to get into it.
  • SqurixSqurix
    Reactions: 300
    Posts: 9
    Member
    edited May 2019
    Wiachu wrote: »
    Why are you suiciding on a lvl139 kanna? I wouldnt imagine going from 139-140 would take much more time than 5minutes. So to take yourself from 90%+ experience back down to 0% would be about 10 deaths. Watching your videos, you take more than 5minutes to go back down to 0% exp.
    How is that at all efficient, let alone, seem like normal gameplay? You are spending more of your time dieing than playing the game.

    Im doing this due to that it is more efficient (surprisingly) than farming on my main a lumi. Lumi rates currently = 80 - 90mil an hour, kanna rates = 300 - 375 mil an hour
  • WiachuWiachu
    Reactions: 100
    Posts: 3
    Member
    edited May 2019
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    Wiachu wrote: »
    Why are you suiciding on a lvl139 kanna? I wouldnt imagine going from 139-140 would take much more time than 5minutes. So to take yourself from 90%+ experience back down to 0% would be about 10 deaths. Watching your videos, you take more than 5minutes to go back down to 0% exp.
    How is that at all efficient, let alone, seem like normal gameplay? You are spending more of your time dieing than playing the game.

    It's to keep one's kanna within full-meso-drop range of whatever map they're farming in. Reboot's a pain in the ass, my man, and that's the biggest reason I've never been able to get into it.

    Meso range is within 10 levels. Byebye mobs are 139/140. So lvl 149 would keep you within range. You also dont get blackhearted curse till 140. Which every guide ever created for "sucide kanna" states is manditory to have on.

    Suicide kanna arent the only options for making meso on reboot. You can make more per/hr on most mains in full meso gear. The problem is, you have to do more than hold one button down.
  • SqurixSqurix
    Reactions: 300
    Posts: 9
    Member
    edited May 2019
    Wiachu wrote: »
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    Wiachu wrote: »
    Why are you suiciding on a lvl139 kanna? I wouldnt imagine going from 139-140 would take much more time than 5minutes. So to take yourself from 90%+ experience back down to 0% would be about 10 deaths. Watching your videos, you take more than 5minutes to go back down to 0% exp.
    How is that at all efficient, let alone, seem like normal gameplay? You are spending more of your time dieing than playing the game.

    It's to keep one's kanna within full-meso-drop range of whatever map they're farming in. Reboot's a pain in the ass, my man, and that's the biggest reason I've never been able to get into it.

    Meso range is within 10 levels. Byebye mobs are 139/140. So lvl 149 would keep you within range. You also dont get blackhearted curse till 140. Which every guide ever created for "sucide kanna" states is manditory to have on.

    Suicide kanna arent the only options for making meso on reboot. You can make more per/hr on most mains in full meso gear. The problem is, you have to do more than hold one button down.

    But to get the meso gear u need a kanna farmer and to farm on a main u also need kanna i also dont farm byebye due to it giving the worst active farming rates so i farm muddy banks 3
  • LittleTLKLittleTLK
    Reactions: 1,350
    Posts: 86
    Member, Private Tester
    edited May 2019
    Neospector wrote: »
    Squrix wrote: »
    WPz8LJJ.png

    Nexon does not condone suiciding to maintain your level, and excessive suiciding has, in the past, led to bans because of how it's used by bots and hackers.
    Your best bet is, as the GM said, to play the game normally. If you have to ask if something is against the rules, the safest option is not to do it.

    Your only option is to keep appealing, but ultimately it's Nexon's decision as to whether you remain banned or not.

    But...that's stupid.
    It's not in any way abusive for a legit player to use this method.
    Just because a bot can do it doesn't mean you should prohibit players.
    That's not just indifference to players, it's outright player-hostile.
    I don't even play reboot, but banning players for utilizing an in-game non-bug feature to their advantage is utterly ridiculous.
    If your auto-ban system is unable to differentiate legitimate player behavior and bot behavior, then don't implement the autoban on that behavior.

    It is rare for me to harshly criticize like this, but this is just plain and simple unethical behavior from a game moderation standpoint. If death EXP loss can be "abused", then adjust the system, don't ban players for utilizing it.
    SlicedTimePride
  • StarryKnightStarryKnight
    Reactions: 1,225
    Posts: 95
    Member
    edited May 2019
    I'm not sure Nexon's stance on referencing other MMORPG's, but in some other games there's an NPC you can talk to that stops your character from accumulating EXP (in WoW for example, in the major city of your faction, there is an NPC you spend like 10g and you can stop gaining XP, then at any point you can spend another 10g to re-enable the ability to gain XP, in WoW this is for something called twinking, but that's a different story).

    The point in referring to that is that I imagine a similar feature wouldn't be difficult to implement in Maple, and would immediately put a stop to false bans from suspicious dying, with the benefit of allowing legitimate players to maximize their ability to farm certain mobs at certain levels, and would foster a subgenre of personal challenges where a person could try to complete a difficult boss or difficult PQ at the lowest level possible, and all of this would prevent the penalties that come with higher levels (the meso penalty being the obvious one, but PQ's being too easy after certain levels is another).

    Granted botters would be able to take advantage of this, thus removing one of nexons methods of catching them, but clearly this method is not particularly effective against botters, not just because its difficult for the computer to differentiate between legitimate players and botters, which can lead to false bans, but because hackers already know how to avoid this and simply program their bots to wait a minimum amount of time before auto-dying again, which suggests that more often than not, people who are banned via auto-deaths are *less* likely to be botters, simply because most botters account for this in software, and legitimate players aren't expecting to be banned when they aren't hacking, but rather simply making clever use of game mechanics.

    So, why is this not an option? Why can't we just pay a few million meso to Alacaster who puts a curse on us that stops our exp accumulation. After all, there's already a similar curse in the game, used by certain elites or bosses, that reduces the amount of exp player earn when killing mobs. Take that code and modify it into a permanent debuff. Obviously it could be done.

    Alternatively, if Nexon *doesn't* want players to employ this method of farming, then simply remove the ability for them to do so, by eliminating the mechanic where people lose EXP from dying. Problem solved. No longer would Nexon need to unban a legitimate player for employing a clever game mechanics that they themselves have programmed into the game, and of which they have not taken a clear stance for or against its usage in game.

    I think Nexon knows that the reaction from eliminating the ability to lose EXP on death would be met with considerable backlash, so why not give the players a break and let an NPC curse us into not gaining exp?
  • AggraphineAggraphine
    Reactions: 16,615
    Posts: 3,025
    Member
    edited May 2019
    LittleTLK wrote: »
    Neospector wrote: »
    Squrix wrote: »
    WPz8LJJ.png

    Nexon does not condone suiciding to maintain your level, and excessive suiciding has, in the past, led to bans because of how it's used by bots and hackers.
    Your best bet is, as the GM said, to play the game normally. If you have to ask if something is against the rules, the safest option is not to do it.

    Your only option is to keep appealing, but ultimately it's Nexon's decision as to whether you remain banned or not.

    But...that's stupid.
    It's not in any way abusive for a legit player to use this method.
    Just because a bot can do it doesn't mean you should prohibit players.
    That's not just indifference to players, it's outright player-hostile.
    I don't even play reboot, but banning players for utilizing an in-game non-bug feature to their advantage is utterly ridiculous.
    If your auto-ban system is unable to differentiate legitimate player behavior and bot behavior, then don't implement the autoban on that behavior.

    It is rare for me to harshly criticize like this, but this is just plain and simple unethical behavior from a game moderation standpoint. If death EXP loss can be "abused", then adjust the system, don't ban players for utilizing it.

    Is it though? You called something else "player-hostile" as well.

    And as I said prior, which you completely ignored:
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    There's no way, from a software perspective, to differentiate between someone manually committing die and using some kind of bot program thing to do it. You can still do it, just don't kill yourself over and over quickly. Wait a bit.

    Why are you so adverse to having debates? No one is obligated in this life to agree with everything you say.