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Check out the v.250 - Mayple Island Patch Notes
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Requesting insight for Rank appeal.
So I was recently banned for "robot play" under the guidelines of botting. This was a new concept to me. All I was doing was holding down teleport (with rebuffing/Kishining to maximize damage/meso gains) and I guess while I was doing it, a GM whispered me and I didn't respond. Anyone who meso farms in Reboot knows its easy to get distracted. I was watching Netflix while meso farming. This is regarded to as "robot play". So I got banned for it. I got a two week temp ban for it and I've accepted that.
Ticket after ticket explaining my situation, no matter what, and 2 admins have responded to me, they refuse to put me back on rankings for a simple mistake once my ban is served.
Now, this thread isn't a ban appeal or anything.
Here, you can see that there is a live chat for rank appeal. Seems legit, right? Now
here, at the bottom, it says
Note: Permanent rank removal will be imposed on players that violate tge Terms of Use. From my understanding, the only reason one should be taken off rankings is if they violate the ToU (Terms Of Use), which results in a ban.
What I am trying to understand is what is the point in trying to appeal a rank removal if you are permanently taken off rankings for ANY type of ban/violation of ToU? I feel like it's literally a waste of time. Why isn't there a level of distinction between ban's? Why would someone who got a temporary ban for harassing another player get taken off rankings, when their character levels had nothing to do with the crime? Someone who downloads hacks/macro's/abused an exploit
intentionally tried to gain an advantage in the game. For that, I can understand a permanent rank removal. As far as I know, some people were put back on rankings after a temporary ban back then and I guess this is new. There are different levels of punishments for a crime and I'm just trying to understand why this is now a thing.
Comments
One issue I see with this is that bans are only dealt with between the offending player and Nexon. Anything otherwise is considered "naming and shaming" when in the hands of the general public.
Much of the stuff in-game isn't regulated as it should be such as shop names, Super Megaphones, etc. Someone could be easily searched up on rankings, and if they aren't they can be harassed, kicked from guilds, etc. just for being previously banned for whatever offense they committed.
From my personal opinion if people being banned have served their duration or get it reversed, whatever they gained during that duration of them being caught by cheating should be removed or maybe even beyond that.
This doesn't address that people are taken off rankings regardless of the offense.
It's agreeable enough that hackers and exploiters would be taken off rankings permanently. but for people banned for anything that doesn't break the game (like harrassment or something similar), let alone have anything to do with levels, it makes no sense that they should be too.
I agree with this in terms of hackers. Those are people who intentionally exploited the game. They downloaded programs to gain an advantage and perform actions in-game not normally allowed with the base client/files. Rankings here is not an issue. A permanent ban should be issued.
Now there's people like me who fall under the category of "robot play" who now is receiving the same punishment as someone who hacks/abuses an exploit.
Idk what this "long-time request from the community is", but they don't speak for everyone, and this isn't a small group of people (3 kids; 2 want to go to the park and 1 wants ice cream; park wins). There are many variables in a banning system and I just think that it is very unfair that no matter what, any ban no matter how small or big (from hacking to unintentionally putting a curse word in your FM shop name), and no matter what reason, falls under permanent removal of rankings. Maplestory, or any MMO, after a certain point, rank matters. A level 59 off rankings is not the same thing as a level 250 off rankings.
I just want to bring this to attention and maybe have admins consider a revision of the ranking system.
After a certain level, you want to start doing boss runs and what not, and it's just harder to join them when people see you're off rankings. It's basically "this person hacked don't affiliate with him". It's harder/impossible to get into active/top guilds. Once people see this, it's hard to have any credibility behind anything you say.
I'm already in one of the top guilds in Reboot but I wouldn't blame the guild leader if they kicked me once my ban is up. There's a reputation to maintain and it sends a message to the rest of the server/high level community.
"robot play" can mean a paperweight on your keyboard, or it can mean a 3rd party program playing for you.
And Nexon doesn't know how long you'd been doing it before you got caught, either.
Why would anyone not bot, if they knew that getting caught just means a 2-week ban, after which you're back in the game with all your botted levels, meso, nodestones, etc, intact?
Taking cheaters permanently off rankings is the least Nexon can do to deter people from the "I'll just do it until I get caught" mentality.
This absurd strategy of whispering 'apparent' botters for robot play is just an excuse to show that they are doing 'something'. You can be as legit as you want and still get banned for not responding to a GM at the right time. There are players right now blatantly doing triple/quadruple flash jumps in henesys and are yet to be banned. I once saw someone use a frenzy totem skill in reboot and he's still on the rankings for gods sake.
Something has to change.
Keyword: Can.
And that's the issue. There's reasonable doubt. If a GM scans you and there's no 3rd party programs and everything is done within the confines of the game, that's kind of Nexon's fault. They should be working towards patching anything that can lead to robot play after that. How long has the method of spamming teleport on Kanna's been around? Probably years. Not justifying what I did, and I shouldn't, because I was rebuffing and rekishining as needed, but I'm just unlucky enough to be distracted for a bit too long and have a GM whisper me. Welp. A temporary ban I can accept, but now my account off rankings? Being level 203 at GS2, the last thing I was worried about is my exp/hr gain. The rankings isn't a thought for my Kanna, but now my whole account is off.
A GM can't assume how long a mapler has been doing something for. You got to know for a fact. That's how customer support works. When people return things "because it came broken", you can't assume they broke it on purpose/accidentally. You got to find obvious evidence of tamper. If you can't, you just accommodate the customer with the exchange policy.
I agree with taking cheaters off rankings when it comes to obvious/intentional offenses (utilizing 3PP, abusing exploit consecutively), but a better system has to be put in place for people in the grey area.
Is there anyway this discussion can be brung to a level that matters within Nexon? Bans in GS in Reboot have been a big issue from what I've been seen in streams/reddit.
You were sub-optimally training and not paying attention enough to not only miss the 2 GM whispers but also being teleported to a bright white map. You would of had several minutes with bright white GM messages on your screen which you 'missed'.
How can you expect Nexon to verify your claims when the behavior you presented to them would have been identical to that of a botter?
Keep in mind that AFK training, which you seem to be admitting to, violates section C of the Code of Conduct you agreed to when you made your account. For your reference it can be found here: http://www.nexon.net/legal/code-of-conduct/
All botters/exploiters/hackers should be permanently removed from the highscores, as far as I know those are the only groups removed from the highscores, since people serving temporary bans for other things are automatically re-added once their ban finishes.
There isn't reasonable doubt to Nexon.
It is quite possible to break the rules with a paperweight, something no 'scan' could detect. It's why Nexon whispers people and tps them to the GM room.
You were making those mesos to transfer within your account to use on a character you believe should still be on the rankings. That's the whole point of a meso mule.
Of this we somewhat agree, I would sooner people who bot get permanently banned, not a 2 week suspension. Since they contribute towards ruining ingame leaderboards too.
I've been GM whispered over 100 times, never had an issue.
I was not white roomed. I immediately noticed when my screen when black and I was sent to the server select screen. I would have noticed if I got white roomed. My chat is minimized so I can see neb boxes easier. I missed a whisper. Not everyone is white roomed. And just because I wasn't being optimal doesn't mean I'm trying to exploit. I use to tengu strike/rotate map, but that get's boring. It was so much easier to spam teleport and barely lose any gains. I think I lost out on 50m/hr? Worth it to watch something at the same time. Now that I understand it's robot play, I regret it.
And I wasn't AFK. No 3rd party programs were used, nor was a weight on my keyboard. True, that is unverifiable, but this where reasonable doubt comes. Like I said, it's Nexon's game and they can make the rules as they please. It's F2P. I'm not the saying "derp you don't know so you can't ban someone", but there needs to be better measures to approach it. I think an account lock until talking to a GM via live chat/some sort of e-mail that you have to read about your possible crime and confirm to unlock your account is probably one of the best approaches. This way, if it happens again, there's no if's/and's/or but's.
Any ban will take you off rankings. Only time you're reinstated is when the ban is reversed/lifted as of now. It clearly states under banning guidelines that ANY violation of their ToS will take you off rankings.
I agree that anyone intentionally hacking/exploiting (grey area seeing as exploits are found by mistake/chance/luck)/botting should be taken off rankings, but there are certain situations that have reasonable doubt. Botting successfully requires 3rd party programs. Spamming teleport on a Kanna is a mechanism of the game that's been around for years as far as I know. I suggested to Nexon via ticket already to change the skill so it isn't spammable, but of course, no response about it. I think fixing what can lead to a reasonable doubt makes the jobs of GM's much better.
That has not been my experience, if you really weren't white roomed then I assume they had some other evidence against like (like detecting 3rd party software despite you claim to the contrary).
So you notice Neb boxes but not GM messages? lol
You were not being optimal for even random TPing, please read what I said.
Then there's nothing else to discuss.
You just admitted to violating the Code of Conduct, which also clearly states it's prohibited behavior. Because you are unwilling to read the link I gave you:
You've admitted to it, there is no reasonable doubt.
You have acknowledged that there's no way for Nexon to verify you claims, what good does talking to a GM do?
You have to agree to the Code of Conduct to make your account, there's no excuse for not knowing the rules. Giving everyone a 'second chance' means there would be no reason at all not to just bot until you are caught 1 time.
I don't believe that (I have previously publicly tracked and continue to privately track peoples positions on the Reboot leaderboard to help me identify cheaters.
If you are correct then I'm all for it, good job Nexon.
No it doesn't, please read the link I gave you.
I would be all for making it harder for people to bot on Kannas, we're in agreement there. However, that is no reason to keep people who have been found cheating on the highscores.
Replies in bold.
I personally think we should also get clear distinctions over what "robot play" refers to as well. Because someone pressing some different keys to train while not watching the screen all that much is a lot different from paper-weighting a key and changing it every few minutes, and all of that is still way different from holding down a key just to open your annoying event boxes just to come back later to be banned. It would be nice to get an official Nexon response as to whether all these are ban-worthy forms of robot-play. Personally I feel like only paper-weighting keys for any combat purposes should be bannable (assuming no 3rd-party programs are used). Cause if you're at the keyboard, you're at the keyboard. Even if you aren't training efficiently, you're there at the screen just like anyone else and not using any programs to hack. And paper-weighting the keys for event boxes is more of a convenience than a game-breaker for competition, so that should not be bannable, in my opinion.
With all that said, I don't know what to say to your situation. You could be guilty, you could be innocent from the information given.