Perhaps this isn’t the way to go about it but here I go. My reason for wanting to revert the Kanna changes is an emotional one more than anything else.
I made this Kanna to give Kishin for my other characters and others, I’ll admit it. I really did not expect to legitimately be grieving right now.
I leveled this character, I spent cosmetics NX on this character, I geared and did dailies on this character, even coincapped.
I did all this knowing I’d see her everyday looking after and providing support for every character I played.
All of this would have continued if you did not destroy her purpose.
The reason you gave on that memo was vague and obviously bs. It reminded me of our greasy snake politicians.
I hope you revert these changes. What have you got to lose?
Kishin needs to die exactly for that reasoning though. If the game wasn't designed around needing that one character (skill), you wouldn't have to make the Kanna in the first place.
We need a complete removal of Kishin. Not to go back to what it was and not to stay at where it's at.
Nexon is just making the whole process more painful than it has to be. End it already.
Pull the plug on Kishin and set a plan in motion to give the game a faster paced grind cycle.
I just do not understand these people who are saying "delete kishin/frenzy and increase base spawn rate." If nx does ever decide to completely remove enhanced spawn skills, chances are, that's pretty much gonna be end of it. No more fast spawn rate or increased base spawn. Just regular spawn rate forever with no way of enhancing it, same as KMS. What makes y'all think that increased base spawn rate is what will naturally come after deletion of kishin or frenzy?? Jesus, why can't y'all hush and just enjoy this amazing perk u get for playing in GMS
Bring the old kishin back!
I did also the same thing, while people who got in the past frenzy totem now we can't even compare with that
the gap between the rich and the poor getting bigger only because of that!!!
I haven't posted in a while because of my dying faith in this game, but this move to nerf kishin solidified that. My sister and I have played this game for over 10 years, and she switched to a Kanna main mostly in part to be a support class, of which kishin plays a huge role.
When you make unilateral decisions that affect huge numbers of players that invest so much time and effort in this game, that's just a big slap in the face. It just isn't right to lure people into making a class en masse then abruptly nerf the very reason people were willing to invest that time and effort into the class.
And guess what? This nerf actually penalizes REAL players while doing nothing to bots that I presume was the reason it was made. In my experience bots tend to travel in packs, so what is an extra 30 seconds for each Kanna bot in a map going to do? Meanwhile, actual players travel one Kanna at a time, so we're the ones that will have to suffer the lower respawn rate.
You know what else I rank up there among the many epic business decision failures by Nexon in recent memory? MapleStory 2. This is a tangent but bear with me.
The same day at the first Maple Fest when they announced the release of MS2, I was probably the only person not cheering... I immediately told my sister sitting next to me that it was a doomed endeavor. Frankly, the dumbest thing I've ever heard... why split your user base by making a competing game? The problem with these MapleStory games is that they are all grindfests and ergo, extremely time-consuming... you cannot possibly hope to gain players in one game without losing in the other, and a game like MapleStory has its roots too deep to ever hope to sustain BOTH... it was inevitably going to kill either one game or the other. My bet was it'd kill MapleStory 2, since it wasn't even all that fun, to begin with. People ignored me then when I said MS2 would suffer a rather painful death, and look where we are at now. Wouldn't it have been great if they just poured all those resources to actually make MapleStory BETTER, like it'd have made much more sense if we just upgraded it from 2D to 3D, then not only would you retain your original playerbase, but you'd actually have a great chance at adding many more to it. That's not too dissimilar from other games I've played.
By alienating an entire class -- one of the most popular in the game by far -- you're just hastening the death of this MapleStory too now. We've let far too much slide, first, the ridiculous lag that made the game basically unplayable (costing us hours of wasted time from hard bosses) ad infinitum, then in more recent memory, the unnecessary revamp of the familiar system that has yet wasted even more time by making hard bossing that much harder (you know how much time, effort and coordination it takes to get 5-6 people available all at the same day and time for these things?!). I could prattle on about all the other "update" failures that have seem to taken over the narrative of so-called gameplay at this point, but honestly, I'm far too jaded to hope anything good will come of it. Nearly all of my friends -- who were all, by the way, among the most dedicated and "lucrative" players (for Nexon) -- have already quit this game because Nexon has time and time again demonstrated they don't give a damn about our time.
Doubt this will make a difference, but all of that is to say I would strongly encourage Nexon to reconsider their changes to kishin. If you choose to nerf an entire class, you negate a large reason why people chose to invest in that class. The only way to justify that is to either remove all such mob respawn -- INCLUDING frenzy, because that's just a ridiculous P2W artifact -- or just maintain the existing status quo that has worked for us all these years, the minority of naysayers notwithstanding. My sister is honestly the only reason why I'm still in this game, because she's somehow still enamored by this game, but boy did this kishin nerf give her great pause. I don't imagine we'll stick around for very long in the future if something doesn't change.
It's been said many times already, but here's an idea... why not just work on actual game security to ban the bots instead of continuously making these sweeping changes that affect REAL players more than it does bots? Bots kill AFK mobs, bots pass rune tests with flying colors, meanwhile if a real player accidentally dies from an AFK mob, it sets them potentially hours back if they were higher level, and well sucks for the people who are colorblind or with poor vision when trying to do the rune tests. Or better yet, try looking at the history behind the Prohibition, the drug wars, etc... how black markets came to be. You could basically eliminate all black market trading -- the very reason for these bots -- through sweeping changes in how trading is regulated in the game. It's already happening right under your noses... the smartest way is to economize it to your own advantage that would make up for all that lost revenue these bots are just stealing. That way people wouldn't be begging for bots to come back because it "ruins" the economy... you catch my drift? You need to eliminate the problem at its source... it's a little something known as a root cause analysis; look it up.
Anyway, I'm done here. Don't bother to reply to me; I'm not going to even bother coming back to take a look. If a change happens, it'll happen; the consequences that ensue in either case will happen too. Have a nice life everyone.
Kishin needs to die exactly for that reasoning though. If the game wasn't designed around needing that one character (skill), you wouldn't have to make the Kanna in the first place.
We need a complete removal of Kishin. Not to go back to what it was and not to stay at where it's at.
Nexon is just making the whole process more painful than it has to be. End it already.
Pull the plug on Kishin and set a plan in motion to give the game a faster paced grind cycle.
If by "faster paced grind cycle", you mean increased spawn rates globally, that doesn't fix Frenzy and Frenzy would simply become even more powerful as a result of boosting the heightened rates. Spawn rate increasers need to become universally available in the same vein that EXP rate increasers did. That fixes 2 PC meta while not giving Frenzy even more power by having even crazier rates to boost.
Kishin needs to die exactly for that reasoning though. If the game wasn't designed around needing that one character (skill), you wouldn't have to make the Kanna in the first place.
We need a complete removal of Kishin. Not to go back to what it was and not to stay at where it's at.
Nexon is just making the whole process more painful than it has to be. End it already.
Pull the plug on Kishin and set a plan in motion to give the game a faster paced grind cycle.
pull the plug, dont give annything in exchange and youll see how the vast mayority of players quit.
Kishin needs to die exactly for that reasoning though. If the game wasn't designed around needing that one character (skill), you wouldn't have to make the Kanna in the first place.
We need a complete removal of Kishin. Not to go back to what it was and not to stay at where it's at.
Nexon is just making the whole process more painful than it has to be. End it already.
Pull the plug on Kishin and set a plan in motion to give the game a faster paced grind cycle.
pull the plug, dont give annything in exchange and youll see how the vast mayority of players quit.
Which is why they would have to set a plan in motion. I would assume that would involve better costs/availability on fury wild totems until the base rate is increased.
I just do not understand these people who are saying "delete kishin/frenzy and increase base spawn rate."
Because there's the crazy idea of telling Nexon what players want and what the game needs.
Apparently the concept of applying pre-patch kishin rates globally, bringing about an end to the two-pc meta, but at the cost of a single skill and a couple of items is the same as being in the US and saying "I think universal healthcare is good".
It's a fantastic idea and would benefit everyone, but we can't have it because that would mean the wrong types will be assisted and some people simply cannot abide by that.
I just do not understand these people who are saying "delete kishin/frenzy and increase base spawn rate."
Because there's the crazy idea of telling Nexon what players want and what the game needs.
Apparently the concept of applying pre-patch kishin rates globally, bringing about an end to the two-pc meta, but at the cost of a single skill and a couple of items is the same as being in the US and saying "I think universal healthcare is good".
It's a fantastic idea and would benefit everyone, but we can't have it because that would mean the wrong types will be assisted and some people simply cannot abide by that.
Except it doesn't, because by increasing the spawn rate across the game globally will only make Frenzy even more powerful, making it even more of a problem in non-Reboot and making anyone who doesn't have it that much more worse off. A blanket fix like "delete Kishin and make every map better" doesn't address Frenzy or the MASSIVE boost it would gain from that sort of fix, forcing more people to go out of their way to get Frenzy services. The best way to deal with it would be to simply make the existing spawn rate effect more universally available than it currently is so there's no reason to need a second PC to have that effect. It keeps Frenzy as the best but people will at least have SOMETHING to work with and not feel pressured to either buy Frenzy services or, in the case of Reboot, just be screwed entirely.
I just do not understand these people who are saying "delete kishin/frenzy and increase base spawn rate."
Because there's the crazy idea of telling Nexon what players want and what the game needs.
Apparently the concept of applying pre-patch kishin rates globally, bringing about an end to the two-pc meta, but at the cost of a single skill and a couple of items is the same as being in the US and saying "I think universal healthcare is good".
It's a fantastic idea and would benefit everyone, but we can't have it because that would mean the wrong types will be assisted and some people simply cannot abide by that.
Except it doesn't, because by increasing the spawn rate across the game globally will only make Frenzy even more powerful, making it even more of a problem in non-Reboot and making anyone who doesn't have it that much more worse off. A blanket fix like "delete Kishin and make every map better" doesn't address Frenzy or the MASSIVE boost it would gain from that sort of fix, forcing more people to go out of their way to get Frenzy services. The best way to deal with it would be to simply make the existing spawn rate effect more universally available than it currently is so there's no reason to need a second PC to have that effect. It keeps Frenzy as the best but people will at least have SOMETHING to work with and not feel pressured to either buy Frenzy services or, in the case of Reboot, just be screwed entirely.
Hey champ, I see you've neglected to read my entire post, so I've gone ahead and bolded the part you've missed. And just in case it still isn't clear enough, I'll go ahead and explain what it means. Remove frenzy, fury and wild totems.
I just do not understand these people who are saying "delete kishin/frenzy and increase base spawn rate."
Because there's the crazy idea of telling Nexon what players want and what the game needs.
Apparently the concept of applying pre-patch kishin rates globally, bringing about an end to the two-pc meta, but at the cost of a single skill and a couple of items is the same as being in the US and saying "I think universal healthcare is good".
It's a fantastic idea and would benefit everyone, but we can't have it because that would mean the wrong types will be assisted and some people simply cannot abide by that.
Except it doesn't, because by increasing the spawn rate across the game globally will only make Frenzy even more powerful, making it even more of a problem in non-Reboot and making anyone who doesn't have it that much more worse off. A blanket fix like "delete Kishin and make every map better" doesn't address Frenzy or the MASSIVE boost it would gain from that sort of fix, forcing more people to go out of their way to get Frenzy services. The best way to deal with it would be to simply make the existing spawn rate effect more universally available than it currently is so there's no reason to need a second PC to have that effect. It keeps Frenzy as the best but people will at least have SOMETHING to work with and not feel pressured to either buy Frenzy services or, in the case of Reboot, just be screwed entirely.
Hey champ, I see you've neglected to read my entire post, so I've gone ahead and bolded the part you've missed. And just in case it still isn't clear enough, I'll go ahead and explain what it means. Remove frenzy, fury and wild totems.
Hey sweetheart, you can lose the sass around me because it doesn't add anything to your point at all. Nerfing Frenzy at this point would be incredibly bad for business as the people who have it are among the most dedicated players of the game and a major source of Nexon's income in the west, so they would effectively be shooting themselves in the foot when there are much better options than using carpet fire as an approach. If you're going to correct me, I would prefer if you spoke to me as an equal instead of staring down at me from the tip of your nose.
@Eikahe
You back pedaled though. You spoke as if the vision that me and aggraphine speak of had no nerf to frenzy.
You shouldn't have said it would have "made frenzy more broken" if you understood that.
Regardless: Players have had access to Frenzy long enough. Even if all they do is make it give an extra xx% exp, most players (The majority) will be happy with the change.
If you're basing your entire strategy around a handful of people with frenzy (The minority) you're also still shooting yourself in the foot.
Pleasing the majority is the better move because it's less dependent on a handful of people being happy and has the most stable ground.
Long term support (A nerf to kishin/frenzy and a global spawn increase) is the way to go.
Alternatively, at the very least, lower fury totem costs, make them unlimited and remove Kishin.
@Eikahe
You back pedaled though. You spoke as if the vision that me and aggraphine speak of had no nerf to frenzy.
You shouldn't have said it would have "made frenzy more broken" if you understood that.
Regardless: Players have had access to Frenzy long enough. Even if all they do is make it give an extra xx% exp, most players (The majority) will be happy with the change.
If you're basing your entire strategy around a handful of people with frenzy (The minority) you're also still shooting yourself in the foot.
Pleasing the majority is the better move because it's less dependent on a handful of people being happy and has the most stable ground.
Long term support (A nerf to kishin and a global spawn increase) is the way to go.
I admit that I made a mistake in reading it, and I responded with a level of generality that I really shouldn't have. I've seen the notion that they should just increase the spawn rate and I wanted to state that it would only make Frenzy's existence even worse. However, you just said it yourself - a nerf to Kishin and a global spawn increase. If we want to go by that logic, yes, we would have to remove all sources of spawn rate increase and I would agree with that to an extent, however I still believe that there are better alternatives to all of this than gutting it all and adjusting all of the rates accordingly. Above all else, that's my major point. I didn't need the snark or the belittlement to be corrected on my mistake and I'm more than happy to own up to the fact that I misread the proposal and reacted according to what I thought I read.
Comments
We need a complete removal of Kishin. Not to go back to what it was and not to stay at where it's at.
Nexon is just making the whole process more painful than it has to be. End it already.
Pull the plug on Kishin and set a plan in motion to give the game a faster paced grind cycle.
I did also the same thing, while people who got in the past frenzy totem now we can't even compare with that
the gap between the rich and the poor getting bigger only because of that!!!
When you make unilateral decisions that affect huge numbers of players that invest so much time and effort in this game, that's just a big slap in the face. It just isn't right to lure people into making a class en masse then abruptly nerf the very reason people were willing to invest that time and effort into the class.
And guess what? This nerf actually penalizes REAL players while doing nothing to bots that I presume was the reason it was made. In my experience bots tend to travel in packs, so what is an extra 30 seconds for each Kanna bot in a map going to do? Meanwhile, actual players travel one Kanna at a time, so we're the ones that will have to suffer the lower respawn rate.
You know what else I rank up there among the many epic business decision failures by Nexon in recent memory? MapleStory 2. This is a tangent but bear with me.
The same day at the first Maple Fest when they announced the release of MS2, I was probably the only person not cheering... I immediately told my sister sitting next to me that it was a doomed endeavor. Frankly, the dumbest thing I've ever heard... why split your user base by making a competing game? The problem with these MapleStory games is that they are all grindfests and ergo, extremely time-consuming... you cannot possibly hope to gain players in one game without losing in the other, and a game like MapleStory has its roots too deep to ever hope to sustain BOTH... it was inevitably going to kill either one game or the other. My bet was it'd kill MapleStory 2, since it wasn't even all that fun, to begin with. People ignored me then when I said MS2 would suffer a rather painful death, and look where we are at now. Wouldn't it have been great if they just poured all those resources to actually make MapleStory BETTER, like it'd have made much more sense if we just upgraded it from 2D to 3D, then not only would you retain your original playerbase, but you'd actually have a great chance at adding many more to it. That's not too dissimilar from other games I've played.
By alienating an entire class -- one of the most popular in the game by far -- you're just hastening the death of this MapleStory too now. We've let far too much slide, first, the ridiculous lag that made the game basically unplayable (costing us hours of wasted time from hard bosses) ad infinitum, then in more recent memory, the unnecessary revamp of the familiar system that has yet wasted even more time by making hard bossing that much harder (you know how much time, effort and coordination it takes to get 5-6 people available all at the same day and time for these things?!). I could prattle on about all the other "update" failures that have seem to taken over the narrative of so-called gameplay at this point, but honestly, I'm far too jaded to hope anything good will come of it. Nearly all of my friends -- who were all, by the way, among the most dedicated and "lucrative" players (for Nexon) -- have already quit this game because Nexon has time and time again demonstrated they don't give a damn about our time.
Doubt this will make a difference, but all of that is to say I would strongly encourage Nexon to reconsider their changes to kishin. If you choose to nerf an entire class, you negate a large reason why people chose to invest in that class. The only way to justify that is to either remove all such mob respawn -- INCLUDING frenzy, because that's just a ridiculous P2W artifact -- or just maintain the existing status quo that has worked for us all these years, the minority of naysayers notwithstanding. My sister is honestly the only reason why I'm still in this game, because she's somehow still enamored by this game, but boy did this kishin nerf give her great pause. I don't imagine we'll stick around for very long in the future if something doesn't change.
It's been said many times already, but here's an idea... why not just work on actual game security to ban the bots instead of continuously making these sweeping changes that affect REAL players more than it does bots? Bots kill AFK mobs, bots pass rune tests with flying colors, meanwhile if a real player accidentally dies from an AFK mob, it sets them potentially hours back if they were higher level, and well sucks for the people who are colorblind or with poor vision when trying to do the rune tests. Or better yet, try looking at the history behind the Prohibition, the drug wars, etc... how black markets came to be. You could basically eliminate all black market trading -- the very reason for these bots -- through sweeping changes in how trading is regulated in the game. It's already happening right under your noses... the smartest way is to economize it to your own advantage that would make up for all that lost revenue these bots are just stealing. That way people wouldn't be begging for bots to come back because it "ruins" the economy... you catch my drift? You need to eliminate the problem at its source... it's a little something known as a root cause analysis; look it up.
Anyway, I'm done here. Don't bother to reply to me; I'm not going to even bother coming back to take a look. If a change happens, it'll happen; the consequences that ensue in either case will happen too. Have a nice life everyone.
If by "faster paced grind cycle", you mean increased spawn rates globally, that doesn't fix Frenzy and Frenzy would simply become even more powerful as a result of boosting the heightened rates. Spawn rate increasers need to become universally available in the same vein that EXP rate increasers did. That fixes 2 PC meta while not giving Frenzy even more power by having even crazier rates to boost.
pull the plug, dont give annything in exchange and youll see how the vast mayority of players quit.
Which is why they would have to set a plan in motion. I would assume that would involve better costs/availability on
furywild totems until the base rate is increased.Because there's the crazy idea of telling Nexon what players want and what the game needs.
Apparently the concept of applying pre-patch kishin rates globally, bringing about an end to the two-pc meta, but at the cost of a single skill and a couple of items is the same as being in the US and saying "I think universal healthcare is good".
It's a fantastic idea and would benefit everyone, but we can't have it because that would mean the wrong types will be assisted and some people simply cannot abide by that.
Except it doesn't, because by increasing the spawn rate across the game globally will only make Frenzy even more powerful, making it even more of a problem in non-Reboot and making anyone who doesn't have it that much more worse off. A blanket fix like "delete Kishin and make every map better" doesn't address Frenzy or the MASSIVE boost it would gain from that sort of fix, forcing more people to go out of their way to get Frenzy services. The best way to deal with it would be to simply make the existing spawn rate effect more universally available than it currently is so there's no reason to need a second PC to have that effect. It keeps Frenzy as the best but people will at least have SOMETHING to work with and not feel pressured to either buy Frenzy services or, in the case of Reboot, just be screwed entirely.
Hey champ, I see you've neglected to read my entire post, so I've gone ahead and bolded the part you've missed. And just in case it still isn't clear enough, I'll go ahead and explain what it means. Remove frenzy, fury and wild totems.
Hey sweetheart, you can lose the sass around me because it doesn't add anything to your point at all. Nerfing Frenzy at this point would be incredibly bad for business as the people who have it are among the most dedicated players of the game and a major source of Nexon's income in the west, so they would effectively be shooting themselves in the foot when there are much better options than using carpet fire as an approach. If you're going to correct me, I would prefer if you spoke to me as an equal instead of staring down at me from the tip of your nose.
You back pedaled though. You spoke as if the vision that me and aggraphine speak of had no nerf to frenzy.
You shouldn't have said it would have "made frenzy more broken" if you understood that.
Regardless: Players have had access to Frenzy long enough. Even if all they do is make it give an extra xx% exp, most players (The majority) will be happy with the change.
If you're basing your entire strategy around a handful of people with frenzy (The minority) you're also still shooting yourself in the foot.
Pleasing the majority is the better move because it's less dependent on a handful of people being happy and has the most stable ground.
Long term support (A nerf to kishin/frenzy and a global spawn increase) is the way to go.
Alternatively, at the very least, lower fury totem costs, make them unlimited and remove Kishin.
I admit that I made a mistake in reading it, and I responded with a level of generality that I really shouldn't have. I've seen the notion that they should just increase the spawn rate and I wanted to state that it would only make Frenzy's existence even worse. However, you just said it yourself - a nerf to Kishin and a global spawn increase. If we want to go by that logic, yes, we would have to remove all sources of spawn rate increase and I would agree with that to an extent, however I still believe that there are better alternatives to all of this than gutting it all and adjusting all of the rates accordingly. Above all else, that's my major point. I didn't need the snark or the belittlement to be corrected on my mistake and I'm more than happy to own up to the fact that I misread the proposal and reacted according to what I thought I read.