[New Users] Please note that all new users need to be approved before posting. This process can take up to 24 hours. Thank you for your patience.
Check out the v.256 - The Dark Ride: Limbo Patch Notes here!
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the Forums Code of Conduct: https://forums.maplestory.nexon.net/discussion/29556/code-of-conducts

[Nexon Transparency] Auditing of False(?) Bans

FuhreakFuhreak
Reactions: 7,720
Posts: 1,641
Member, Private Tester
edited April 2022 in Suggestions, Feedback, and Requests
I've seen some recent talk of false bans going around lately and have a guild member who was recently hit by it as well.
Support is unhelpful as always when it comes to these issues so I would like to suggest that extra information be collected (if it isn't already) and passed to the player so that they can more easily clear their own name.
Too many support tickets are copy paste "You were caught hacking. We will not tell you anything else. Goodbye."
It would be useful for those of us who keep extra information, logs or even video recordings of gameplay if Nexon would include several things including but not limited to...

Time and Date of the incident.
Character the Incident took place on
Why the GM thought the player was hacking
Synopsis of Reports against the player

I personally record a lot of my gameplay and it would be nice to know these things so that I could more easily prove that Nexon made a mistake if I get hit with a false ban.
Many people have been playing for years on end so getting hit with a false ban with no easy way to prove innocence without begging for Nexon to check into the issue again is a very scary thought.
Nexon does not have to say specifically what type of hack was used, but they could just mention what they thought the player was attempting to do.
Sometimes I wonder if Nexon GMs truly know how the game works in the first place as being white roomed while farming is far more common than it needs to be.
Falsely reporting players either for memes or not understanding the class they're playing is also a thing so it would be nice if Nexon could be transparent about reports against the player as well.
"You had 5 reports of hacking against you as well as GM observation confirmed you were hacking." or something along these lines.
This even prevents players from going to reddit or the forums and wasting people's time if the GM clearly explains why the ban is justified.

I am not attempting to get my guild member unbanned, I simply wish to know that in future events if this does happen to anyone, that Nexon will take the proper steps to make sure that they aren't falsely banning people.
Nexon has falsely banned accounts then unbanned later several times in recent history, a choke needs to be put on this ban shotgun.

Comments

  • AKradianAKradian
    Reactions: 40,340
    Posts: 6,342
    Member, Private Tester
    edited April 2022
    Nexon does not want to tell actual cheaters what gave them away. Telling them the exact time and what it looked like they were doing, does exactly that.
  • FuhreakFuhreak
    Reactions: 7,720
    Posts: 1,641
    Member, Private Tester
    edited April 2022
    AKradian wrote: »
    Nexon does not want to tell actual cheaters what gave them away. Telling them the exact time and what it looked like they were doing, does exactly that.
    Punishing legit players to catch cheaters is something I can never promote. Cheaters know exactly what gave them away. Cheating.
    Times do not have to be "exact". They can state the day or week that was responsible for the ban. This might help players remember what it was they were doing at the time or anything weird that happened.
  • AKradianAKradian
    Reactions: 40,340
    Posts: 6,342
    Member, Private Tester
    edited April 2022
    That's like saying "thieves know what gave them away: stealing." Well, no, because they tried to hide their stealing. But if the police investigator is forced to say "you left your fingerprints on the safe" then the thief (and all future thieves) know to wear gloves next time.
    In real life, the law requires letting the defendant know the evidence against them, even if it "burns" police informants or investigation methods and tools.
    But in the world of Maplestory, Nexon makes the rules, and the rules (in the form of the Terms of Use) say they don't have to tell anyone anything.

    I agree it's very frustrating to be wrongly banned and have no way to refute the evidence against you, because you don't know what it is. I'm just explaining Nexon's reasoning for not revealing said evidence.
  • FuhreakFuhreak
    Reactions: 7,720
    Posts: 1,641
    Member, Private Tester
    edited April 2022
    AKradian wrote: »
    That's like saying "thieves know what gave them away: stealing." Well, no, because they tried to hide their stealing. But if the police investigator is forced to say "you left your fingerprints on the safe" then the thief (and all future thieves) know to wear gloves next time.

    This is why I said they can be vague about it. "We caught you hacking between the days of the 1st and the 7th" this at least lets the player know what activity to think over and if they were doing anything abnormal such as messing with a IDE, updating antivirus, etc.
    Just because Nexon has a reason doesn't mean we can't challenge that reason. Until they say "Mentioning this is not allowed" I'll advocate for things to change for the benefit of players, even if hackers also benefit somewhat.
  • RustySpiderRustySpider
    Reactions: 310
    Posts: 3
    Member
    edited April 2022
    AKradian wrote: »
    That's like saying "thieves know what gave them away: stealing." Well, no, because they tried to hide their stealing. But if the police investigator is forced to say "you left your fingerprints on the safe" then the thief (and all future thieves) know to wear gloves next time.
    In real life, the law requires letting the defendant know the evidence against them, even if it "burns" police informants or investigation methods and tools.
    But in the world of Maplestory, Nexon makes the rules, and the rules (in the form of the Terms of Use) say they don't have to tell anyone anything.

    I agree it's very frustrating to be wrongly banned and have no way to refute the evidence against you, because you don't know what it is. I'm just explaining Nexon's reasoning for not revealing said evidence.

    And that is complete and utter nonsense.

    My friend and guild leader MagicBully just got permanently banned, and he still doesn't know why. He spent 6 years of hard work building up his characters in Reboot, and for what? Nexon to pull the plug on his account in an instant, and refusing to explain why. Can you not see how disgusting that is? What an absolute disgrace of a company.

    These GMs working behind the scenes clearly have no emotion or empathy whatsoever, they are hollow husks. They're no better than the scammers who steal peoples accounts and rob them of all their items and mesos.
  • FuhreakFuhreak
    Reactions: 7,720
    Posts: 1,641
    Member, Private Tester
    edited June 2022
    My guild member that was hit by this was unbanned, Nexon got it wrong. A perma ban was reversed and Nexon did not inform (as of yet) (He found the message) this player that they were unbanned nor ever explain why the false perma ban even took place. You'll have to take my word for it as they wish to remain anonymous, but I believe my point will still make sense to nexon as they have access to their records.

    Nexon, what do you plan to do about this shotgun pattern which forces players to miss events and maybe even stops them from playing altogether? I think a public apology or explanation is required as this point because this is at least the third false ban wave that I've seen personally. Again, I don't want anyone to lose their account or playtime because of your awful GM team not doing proper research until long after the fact.

    If it's ambiguous, why not do the research first then ban? I understand that damages could be done if hackers are left unchecked for too long, but if this is the case then a ban should be dealt swiftly and the player unbanned just as swiftly. Either Nexon's GM team is understaffed or incompetent. It shouldn't take several weeks (almost a month) to figure out that an innocent player is innocent. This type of behavior is inexcusable and just makes me less motivated to play the game out of fear of being banned for no fault of my own.
  • AgainToKsAgainToKs
    Reactions: 800
    Posts: 9
    Member
    edited November 2023
    Fuhreak wrote: »
    My guild member that was hit by this was unbanned, Nexon got it wrong. A perma ban was reversed and Nexon did not inform (as of yet) (He found the message) this player that they were unbanned nor ever explain why the false perma ban even took place. You'll have to take my word for it as they wish to remain anonymous, but I believe my point will still make sense to nexon as they have access to their records.

    Nexon, what do you plan to do about this shotgun pattern which forces players to miss events and maybe even stops them from playing altogether? I think a public apology or explanation is required as this point because this is at least the third false ban wave that I've seen personally. Again, I don't want anyone to lose their account or playtime because of your awful GM team not doing proper research until long after the fact.

    If it's ambiguous, why not do the research first then ban? I understand that damages could be done if hackers are left unchecked for too long, but if this is the case then a ban should be dealt swiftly and the player unbanned just as swiftly. Either Nexon's GM team is understaffed or incompetent. It shouldn't take several weeks (almost a month) to figure out that an innocent player is innocent. This type of behavior is inexcusable and just makes me less motivated to play the game out of fear of being banned for no fault of my own.

    And now? My account is already lost? The GMs don't want to review my account and its activities. I have dedicated many years to this game because I like it and it is entertaining, and the GMs ban you without doing a good investigation, this is unfair, I feel like I have been robbed and deceived.