[Update February 19 at 1:30 PM PT] Image has been removed as it was in violation with the Forums Code of Conduct.
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For far too long has the hurricane class minority community been oppressed by the hard-cap system in which the majority of the GMS community (non-hurricane class community) has shunned for their own self-gratification and biases. To those who are unaware of this creeping imbalance issue in which is embedded within the system itself, GMS capped attack speed is higher than that of KMS. A majority of classes benefit from this higher attack speed, while others do not. This proves to be detrimental to the balance between the hurricane and non-hurricane classes and creating a two-class system in which the game favors those of non-hurricane classes over hurricane classes (e.g. Bowmaster, Corsairs, Jett, Mercedes, Phantom, Wild Hunters, and Wind Archers). Most games and MMOs today knows how attack speed is a fundamental/meta factor in regard to damage, and such restrictions on a particular class will bring balancing issues.
With the upcoming NEO patch, the hurricane class is at death's door at the bottom of the chart with the damage cap increase. A lot of people argue that such chart is inaccurate. However, many of you people rely on the use of BA’s on a dummy to determine a person’s worth when recruiting hard bosses, which is the same, if not similar, analysis and criteria in which charts are constructed on. One thing that remains a fact in DPM charts from KMS due to differences in attack speed, is that hurricane classes are ranked much lower and non-hurricane classes much higher in GMS. This led to the unethical discrimination amongst classes, as some classes are more valued than others in terms of DPS roles and being rejected in the process.
Common counterarguments addressed by our VFM’s have bias-ly stated that the impacts are minimal
(1). For those arguing that such impacts are minimalistic, then it would be perfectly fine to reduce GMS attack speed to that of KMS (soft-cap) since such impact within these terms would also be ‘minimalistic’ and saying else wise would be quite hypocritical of you. Before you argue that it is still minimalistic, take a couple of BAs (one that is soft-cap, the other hard-cap AS) of your non-hurricane main and share the difference with us. With the introduction of new 5th job skills and changes to existing skills (e.g. animation-delay reductions, buffs, and rebalancing) it has brought future unprecedented balancing issues in which GMS has dug itself into. For example, certain skills are sensitive to attack speed increases, thus making them perform extremely well outside of their intentional design which is best fitted in KMS’s soft cap attack speed.
Considering that balancing patches in KMS is around the corner, it is anticipated that such issues may or may not be addressed on the KMS side of maple for hurricane classes, such as higher %damage for hurricane skills, or even making hurricane classes hard cap in AS on KMS. However, if hurricane classes in KMS are buffed to allow them to hard-cap, this will NOT be seen as a buff for the hurricane class community, but rather a FIX that SHOULD have already been implemented long ago to balance the deviant system in which GMS has created. Considering that NA Nexon cannot balance skills around the hard cap this will continue to be an issue until a drastic change occurs, such as nerfing the attack speed to KMS’s standard (the soft cap) or allowing hurricane skills to hit the hard cap or past it.
To the minority hurricane community that wants balance and to reduce the continuing gap between KMS and GMS’s attack speed bring this post to the attention to u/CM_Ghiblee and the MapleStory official discord. For too long has this issue been ignored, which is slowly killing hurricane community that which once stood strong. For classes that are not affected by the hard-cap (i.e. pathfinders), please voice your concern and inform the community on how the hard-cap system is a disservice for you. Our goal is to even the playing field, bringing equality in a system that benefits ALL classes and removing the two-class system embedded in the game. I know that this post will get downvoted to hell because of unpopular opinion, but if I can raise awareness it is worth the heat and slander. To the Bowmaster, Corsair, Jett, Mercedes, Phantom, Wild Hunter, and Wind Archer communities, I love you all and stay strong.
Comments
(1) Rebalance a few unhappy classes by boosting their % damage; or
(2) Upset 90% of your player base by nerfing the attack speed cap and then having endless backlash on social media platforms?
On a side note: What about the classes that are weaker than hurricane classes even with capped attack speed? What's your solution to that? Not your problem?
The difference is that you will never get to convince GMS to boost the damage of hurricane only classes because they follow KMS balance patches and likely don't have their own dedicated balance team. So to me, it sounds perfectly logical. I don't see why it is so scary for GMS to go through with unpopular but balanced changes. Perhaps you have a stake in this? Bishop can't spam full-map attack anymore. Bishop can't spam heal anymore. You can't Kanna kishin mule anymore. You can't get legendary 2nd and 3rd IA lines anymore. Yes, they will face backlash. Do people still play bishops despite nerfs? Yes. Do people still play Kannas despite nerfs? Yes. Do people still roll for unique inner ability? Yes. Do people still play Adeles despite nerfs? Yes.
Breaking attack speed has its own form of inbalance when KMS class balance takes into account hard cap stage 2 attack speed. That's a fact you can't get around.
On a side note: Classes weaker than hurricane classes with capped attack speed is indeed not my problem. That's for KMS balance team to work out.
Please watch your patronizing tone.
The only difference is that GMS has a consistent way of breaking the soft attack speed cap solo, while KMS can only do it with certain party buffs.
Clearly the lack of self-awareness eludes you (and the OP, who tries to compare this to a human rights concern).
In response to your other point, the game has evolved long past the point of Bishops spamming Genesis. Kanna is still the most popular class in the entire game due to Kishin and its immense mobbing and bossing capabilities. Legendary 2nd and 3rd IA lines only affected a small minority of people who actually farmed Azwan enough to unlock them.
It's one thing to nerf a class, but it's an entirely other thing to make a change that cripples a majority of classes. The recent change to Thunder Breakers' Thunderbolt skill delay is a great example of how the attack speed reduction can go horribly wrong, and has led a lot of TB mains to reconsider playing their class.
In end-game, Hurricane classes are usually the ones that have an easier time with the Genesis Weapon quests, namely Hard Lucid and Hard Will, compared to classes that rely on the hard cap; KMS raising the cap from 10b to 150b shows that they've given up on balancing classes properly in this regard. If anything, the higher attack speed makes certain content a lot more feasible, such as Hell mode Gollux, a boss that requires catlike reflexes (
in before this becomes a discussion about non-KMS content).To make my point even further: My class would benefit greatly from this change and I am still against it. Why? Because your suggestion will cause so much backlash and upset so many players that it's not logical. You aren't even willing to meet half way on a solution.
I would also like to point out that DPM charts do not reliably rank classes and that the majority of Black Mage solos in GMS are in fact cleared by hurricane classes.
The fastest Black Mage solo clear in GMS is actually performed by a Wind Archer:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=axCNIhmLCFg
Phantom Black Mage solo:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Upy2OwmG3tk
Wild Hunter Black Mage solo:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=MlCTd9SfwA4
(In before this becomes a discussion about self-awareness).As Bommell said, it appears that I and the OP are misinformed. I did believe that KMS had a hard cape of stage 2 AS. However, with consistent ways of breaking soft cap in GMS, it doesn't get around the fact that those classes that benefit from doing this... well benefit from doing it. Even with Bommell's information, players are still gaining an innate advantage by regularly breaking soft cap that isn't intended. Parties with Spirit Domain and Benediction will still get their party attack speed cap broken during burst periods while attackers do not get the unfair damage advantage off-burst. Other party buffs I'm assuming will still allow you to break cap off-burst (Evan's wind return, SI, etc).
I also understand the game has moved well past some of the changes such as Bishop Genesis/Heal spam and full legendary IAs. Your point about Kannas only serves to prove my point though, does it not? Kanna is still popular despite possibly the most unpopular change in a very long time. Of course this has its own reasons I'm sure but Kanna is by no means a dead class. I'm sure nobody who loves playing their non-hurricane classes will suddenly go to play hurricane classes because they lose 2 stages of attack speed.
The Thunder Breaker example is a poor example of delay and attack speed. TB's faced a 40% to 50% BA decrease because of a ghost change that wasn't mentioned in the patch notes. This is no where near the amount of change that would occur from reducing attack speed cap from 0 to 2. That would more likely result in somewhere from 5% to 15% decrease in damage off-burst depending on the class and would not be as drastic as one might believe. Also to get this straight, you offered an example where a class was nerfed and it is still popular. Then you offered an example where a class was nerfed and now they face an mass exodus. There's some inconsistency going on here so I think there's more to do with it than just a nerf in damage, thus, the breakdown on the numbers. We can argue about the numbers exactly, but I don't think you'll convince anyone that going from stage 0 to stage 2 attack speed will reduce a class's damage by anywhere near 40%.
I agree that hurricane classes have an easier time liberating the genesis weapon in hLucid and hWill. At the same time, isn't it the broken AS cap that make it easier for classes with broken attack speed cap to even get to liberating a genesis weapon? With a 150b damage cap increase looming and liberated genesis weapons only available for the smallest fraction of the player base, is that something that would hold back attack speed balance? It seems like a moot point. Also, it isn't a good assumption that KMS has given up on balancing classes properly because of the new damage cap because they already have a 2 attack speed semi-hard cap. Hurricane classes are favored to performed better when capping damage. This was no different when the cap was raised from 1m to 55m then to 10b.
Lastly, higher attack speed may make something like Hellux indeed much easier for attack speed based classes. Hurricane class players don't feel the same since they still face having to cancel their hurricane and dodge. If you get stuck for too long in an attack, whether you just don't react fast enough or you greed for more attacks, you will get punished for it. Your point that broken AS cap makes Hellux more feasible is again centered around AS classes. Also, I doubt many people who are struggling with Hellux are the ones with their class's attack speed as high as possible.
I appreciate your speculation on my 'true colors', but I'm looking for there to be some type of balance between classes. If a type of class is underperforming, the only way to equal the playing field is to buff the weaker ones or nerf the stronger ones. I could be living in an ideal world where GMS just buffs all the hurricane classes. If I thought that was possible, I would recommend that. However, GMS follows KMS balance patches and because I don't see us moving away from that, we should follow the environment they are balanced around too.
I would implore you to make your decisions by looking at information rather than assuming a person's cause and judgement after you solicit a negative response from them. I'm just a Mapler, I'm not a MapleStory balance team. It is not my place to consider the balance of every class, but I can make an argument of where things do not seem fair in its appropriate thread, this not being the one for weak classes despite being capped on attack speed. I've heard of double standards, yes, and this is not a double standard. Thank you for asking, though. Again, I'm pointing out where I think something does not seem fair in its appropriate thread. If you see the need for buffs to classes despite being capped on attack speed, please start a new thread.
There will certainly be backlash for reducing the availability of breaking the attack speed cap to party buffs. This is ultimately for Nexon to consider and I see it as a fair point. That would certainly something worth considering. You should argue that more instead of trying to straw-man my arguments and speculate about my character.
In no place do I mention DPM charts. I've watched all three of those Black Mage solos before. I'm well aware that DPM charts are no holy grail. Please see my response to PirateIzzy above. I've said that hurricane classes are favored to perform better under capping circumstances. Seeing that black mage solo has no real purpose in the game and that the damage cap is raising soon, this is a moot point.
Edit: I would like to hear your halfway solution. I did not see a possibility in the halfway solution, and therefore because I did not believe it realistically exists, I choose the option that I believe has a chance of happening.
Let's be real here. The possibility of either option happening is low to none. There's no precedent for either, there's been no word or mention of either. Campaigning for either is just silly, especially in this forum of all places.
The only thing this thread accomplishes is just getting people upset for having a unpopular opinion.
Dang he even used the black power fist
But I feel the game should revamp a bit to make sure most classes are balance out as I have seen you are in fact right. But we need the right voice there to make it happen.
Gl and archer and maple power!!!!
[Update February 19 at 1:30 PM PT] Image has been removed as it was in violation with the Forums Code of Conduct.
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There are hurricane classes( Wind archer) able to solo black mage, a feature not all classes can do, wtf u complain about, if that WA can then the hurricane classes are ok , mayb some buff would be nice but its not that huge difference, because in end game, it doesnt matter the dmg but the ability to survive the boss, some classes have a lot of dmg but suck at surviving, which in the end make them balanced. Some hurricane classes are insane like wild hunter or wind archer, those two have a really good kit for bossing, wh has iframes, 2 double jumps , diagonal jump a bind etc, while WA can up jump and stayt in mid air for some time, a no cd dash that allows them to avoid a lot of boss attacks, quite a lot of dmg and good 5th job skils , bow master has a platter that helps deal more dmg and is insane in mobbing once u 1 shot, his 5th job skills are also super good and last one gave them an iframeish type of skill? Why nerf every single other class ? If anything just ask for a buff for those classes, whicvh i dont think they need it, your mentality is completelly upside down, so if ur class isnt gopod u want like 35 other classes to get nerfed? Come on dude, come on.
Ive seen all kinds of classes being added to end game bossing parties, paladins, shades, battle mage, other classes that have 0 utility to the party added too, with enough stat you can enter on a party, specially on NA servers where theres plenty of people to find one. On eu is harder cuz theres way less people so is harder to find a strong party but if u got enough stat u can join, Is been a very long time since someone asked me for a BA to join a party, they usually ask how much stat i got, legion and if i know the boss mechanics, thats it.
TLDR: Is not allm about dmg, some classes are weaker but balanced with high survivavility while other are stronguer but suck in survivavility, its not all abiout dealing tons of lines and being super strong dude, game isnt as simple as that. If it was that simple, then who cared which class you pick, each an every single job has unique or kinda unique playstyle, let it stay like that.
[Update February 19 at 1:30 PM PT] Image has been removed as it was in violation with the Forums Code of Conduct.
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Exactly this lol , couldnt agree more with you.
Dude you have such a selfish point of view, so they need to buff hirricane classes but you dont care about weaker classes? Youre being extremelly selfish. Just by that statement i wont even bother reading your next comments.
Good ad hominen. Not arguing points of views does not rebut an argument, but makes you look closed-minded.