Sengoku - Kanna change request
➢ Haku Perfected
Breath of the Unseen: Add 40% Ignore Enemy Defense.
Reason: Kanna has a real shortage of Ignore enemy defense in early to mid game stages that puts too much undue resource strain on newer and casual players. Returning the 40% Ignore Enemy Defense will greatly alleviate that undue stress.
Hakus Blessing:
Change Magic attack type from Magic Attack to M.Atk%.
Remove Party Members mechanic.
Reason: party wide buff mechanic limits any balancing for raw power of Kanna that can be made in a single instance. Reverting back to original release Haku mechanics of being a solo self buff with m.atk% instead of party buff provides an easy single instance numerical balancing point.
➢Radiant Peacock
Add +10% Final Damage
Reason: to bring in line with other mage class built in final damage bonuses.
➢Vanquishers Charm
Change part of the description from Hold down the skill key for a rapid-fire attack. to Holding the skill key will fire charms continuously. You can also move while holding the skill key.
Change monsters hit from 8 to 1.
Change Mana cost from 40 to 10.
Reason: Originally a hurricane skill built for a damage over time, the change to a burst skill limits Kanna sustained damage and encourages unethical behavior. Reverting back to hurricane skill will alleviate this pressure. The mana cost of 40 is far too much for the base 100 mana Kanna has. Making it a skill that requires a skill in a job level above it to fully function. It also requires the Kanna player to heavily invest in hyper skills points to function at half capacity before acquiring the next job level skill, which is a very limited resource that puts far too much undue cost for those under level 200, and a hard strain for those above level 200.
The monster hit from 8 to 1 is to bring it back in line with other hurricane skills.
no thx for your 8 down to 1 enemy on vanq....its a burst skill...not a full time use skill
the mana cost dont have to go back down at 10...it was fine at 15 and i think a start cost of 20-25 is fine if they slowly ramp up the cost over time by increments of about 1 to 2 over 10 sec....40 however as a full time cost has indeed been an excessive cost up from 15....its currently useless for mobbing and very difficult to set up for bossing(unusable without yuki-hime)
dont destroy the skill further plz ....i'd like it to be usefull for mobbing again and NOT become an overpower boss skill with a cost cheaper than it use to be
in regard to haku blessing.....% M-ATK would be a problem...idk if you noticed the job Zero skill that Kanna has.....she can net up to 714 M-ATK for having 500,000 HP
% M-ATK would increase that to absurd amount..... 714 M-ATK is the equivalent of all pieces of gear enhanced to like 22 stars
so i can't agree with you for that
Ignore defense problem can be solve by familiar badges, IED on emblem, and Legion grid
although unlocking legion grid is unfriendly....and a much needed upgrade regardless of if you need the ied from it
i'am currently 4 month and 16 days in(no-life gamer and i do struggle advancing the legion grid).....my hightest lvl char is a Kanna(lvl 250)..follow by Khali in second at 240.....however i do recognize the legion grid as being much needed(even if my base IED would be highter)...the sheer amount of stats all of the char cards bring is obvious....the time sink it took to bring mass characters to 140-200 is absurd.....especially afterland//mushroom shrine which have unending walls of text and make you be idle for a long time......the strain is there even without the ied issue cause legion exist....i'am not even focusing my Kanna anymore....i'am putting all my effort into powering up my legion lvls....at least alts lvling is getting faster with a lot of high dps links skills//decent legion power for 10-140 range...but still a pain
oh and..i'am praticly duo lvling the guild i made...i dont yet have that luxurious +50 ATK from lvl 15-25 nor the +50 All Stats
unfortunetly the lvl wont advance much untill all my alts are around 210 with decently powerful orbs to chain kill mass bosses at high speed for lots of guild points
dont destroy the skill further plz ....i'd like it to be usefull for mobbing again and NOT become an overpower boss skill with a cost cheaper than it use to be
You should not be using vanquisher's for mobbing, so this argument doesn't really make sense. Kanna suffers at bossing not mobbing, so buffs should be focused towards that part of her kit, not strengthening her mobbing further
in regard to haku blessing.....% M-ATK would be a problem...idk if you noticed the job Zero skill that Kanna has.....she can net up to 714 M-ATK for having 500,000 HP
% M-ATK would increase that to absurd amount..... 714 M-ATK is the equivalent of all pieces of gear enhanced to like 22 stars
so i can't agree with you for that
This also makes no sense and makes it clear you do not have a full understanding of the formulas in this game. Blessing of the Five Elements, the skill you are referring to here, grants FINAL magic attack, meaning it is not affected by % magic attack like the OP is suggesting. This means 714 matk pales in comparison to the the gains from enhancing even a couple pieces of gear to 22 stars, let alone all of it.
Ignore defense problem can be solve by familiar badges, IED on emblem, and Legion grid
although unlocking legion grid is unfriendly....and a much needed upgrade regardless of if you need the ied from it
The point here is that other classes do not need to do this. Kanna is both IED and crit rate starved, so while you are investing legion, hypers, familiars, etc. into those, other classes are able to invest that into damage. This means that Kanna is forced to use these sources while other classes can invest in things like Boss Damage, Crit Damage, etc. and further the gap between Kanna and other classes
Apsalar: more like reverting the skill to be usable for mobbing and bossing...not strictly bossing...this guy want it to be more powerful than it was pre-nerf and it was already great pre-nerf but he also want the skill to become useless for mobbing which is not ok
secondly....thx for notifying me that % M-ATT doesn't affect the M-ATT gain from her job zero skills...while its true that i dont have a full knowledge of gimmicks in the dps formula its still weird that M-ATT % affect gear M-ATT but not the M-ATT gain from the skill....in such case then i'am not sure if that would be a good idea...while end-game likely gonna benefit more from it..the early game will suffer from it
Crit Rate wise.....just get 50% from Honor Lines in exchange for 30% Boss dmg(better than using Legion grid or potential for it)
get 10% from Beast Tamer Link SKill
and last 20% can be from Phantom Link Skill
easy 80% like that
Ignore Defense is certainly harder to cover(cause familiar badges take a while to farm)
but you can net
10% from Hyper Stats
20% from Light Wash Link Skill
10% From Rhine Blessing Link Skill
20% from full CRA gear set
15% from familiar badges
also unsure if unreliable but summoned familiar give 15% ied
more like reverting the skill to be usable for mobbing and bossing...not strictly bossing...this guy want it to be more powerful than it was pre-nerf and it was already great pre-nerf but he also want the skill to become useless for mobbing which is not ok
Again, this is an acceptable tradeoff. Kanna already has so many valuable mobbing skills that buffing her ONE burst skill to be more burst centric would just be an overall buff for her kit. How are you using a 60s cooldown skill in your mobbing rotation???
secondly....thx for notifying me that % M-ATT doesn't affect the M-ATT gain from her job zero skills...while its true that i dont have a full knowledge of gimmicks in the dps formula its still weird that M-ATT % affect gear M-ATT but not the M-ATT gain from the skill....in such case then i'am not sure if that would be a good idea...while end-game likely gonna benefit more from it..the early game will suffer from it
You are right, this change might slightly affect early game... But we shouldn't be balancing the class around the first 200 levels or so. This change would be a huge boon for anyone taking their Kanna to 250, using it as a bossing mule, or mainging it. your argument here is essentially that we should gimp all mid-late-endgame Kannas just to make the early game easier on a class that already has an incredibly easier early game
Crit Rate wise.....just get 50% from Honor Lines in exchange for 30% Boss dmg(better than using Legion grid or potential for it)
get 10% from Beast Tamer Link SKill
and last 20% can be from Phantom Link Skill
You are missing my point. If you are using 50% crit rate on honor you are griefing yourself. Other classes don't need to do this. Other classes can hit higher crit rates naturally, so they do not need to use their inner ability to get it. They can use their inner for more damage. Kanna is stuck in that they need to use their inner abilities to get 20% crit rate, leaving 1 less line to get something like 10% boss damage or 7% damage to targets affected by abnormal status. Kanna shouldn't need to sacrifice Inner/Hyper/Legion just to get something that other classes have by default
Ignore Defense is certainly harder to cover(cause familiar badges take a while to farm)
but you can net
10% from Hyper Stats
20% from Light Wash Link Skill
10% From Rhine Blessing Link Skill
20% from full CRA gear set
15% from familiar badges
also unsure if unreliable but summoned familiar give 15% ied
so 75-90% IED
This is not how IED works. IED is multiplicative, and most bosses have 300% Defense.
Firstly, those lines would result in 1 - ((1-0.1) * (1-0.2)*(1-0.1)*(1-0.2)*(1-0.15)*(1-0.15)) = 0.625456, or 62.5456% IED
On a boss with 300% Defense (Every Boss from CRA to Black Mage), this would result in you doing 1 - (3.00 * ( 1 - 0.625456)) = -0.123632, or -12% Damage (in game, this would mean you can only hit 1s on the boss. If you factor in the suggested 40% IED, this would instead become 77.52% IED, and you would actually be able to damage those bosses.
Moreover, this is just another example of Kanna lacking base stats that other class have innately. Other classes do not need to stack IED as aggressively on Hyper/Familiars/WSE/Legion in order to actually do damage in bosses.
Maohime is an experienced Kanna player, and his suggestions are valid. I do not understand why you insist on being contrarian and wanting to play the class on "hard mode". All these buffs he suggested would make the class better to play and bring it in line with the other classes in the game. From your own admission, you seem to be early/mid game, and I promise you once you hit mid/late game you would absolutely love to have these changes for your Kanna.
Kanna is a support classes to begin with..it should not be fully on par with dps classes so its fine if its slightly lower on stats for bossing compare to pure dps breed
its like 10-15% less dps overall
as for Vanq Charm for mobbing...it fill in the gaps between Yukihime///Orochi//Nine Tail Fury down time....and its pretty neat to have on command for elites mobs
its 57 sec cd for me cause of Mercedes Legion effect
my Kanna currently has 71.62% IED from detail sheet.....and i can kill 3 of CRA bosses no issues solo
she got all the stuff i listed except Familiar Badges and a Familiar
EDIT: i forgot AbsoLab -10% as well(was from flame event)
Vellum on the other his defense is much highter so my dps tickle him but its not 1 dmg
but if its multiplicative as you say i should be doing 1 dmg base on your maths but thats not the case
not entirely sure where you got that formula but it has to be incorrect if i can solo kill 3 of the cra bosses with 71.62% IED on my Kanna AND hurt vellum with some damage
if the formula work like this however 300% divide by 100 X 28.38 = 85.14% resistance..which mean i should be doing 14.86% of my dps to him......which seem accurate when i fought Vellum
28.38% of 300% wasn't removed by the 71.62% IED
well say what you will but i'd recommend to test the validity of the formula you picked up by applying it directly in combat
with this said....spaghetti coding could exist on some classes which may result in abnormal results if thats what the formula should be
and in such case more than 100% IED would be needed to bring 300% def near 5-15% resistance
..in regard to being experience it mean absolutly nothing, playing long time dont mean being the smartest or even making good choices all the time
btw 30% less boss dmg out of like (250% boss dmg + 90% dmg(any enemy type)....... its like 8.8% less dmg total...not a too massive lost if you ask me
assuming i'am not mistaken and that boss dmg and dmg % get added to each other when attacking bosses
This guy is so funny, unironically saying stuff like vanquishers is a mobbing skill and 70% ied STRONK cause he's doing 3 door, a complete clown and keyboard warrior who has peaked at normal lotus
euphe plz continue to read partially its BOTH a mobbing and bossing skill(although mostly intent for bossing)
second i never claimed that 70% ied in the detail screen was strong, i only stated the amount i had in my detail screen period and which is sufficient for 3 of those bosses
your the one actually looking like a clown by not reading properly ...although i like the clown title...i can juggle and laugh at ya while doing so
in regard to normal lotus i'am not going to fight him yet....if i can't beat C-Vellum, what chance would i have vs lotus whom crystal value is much highter ?
and plz bash the returning player i only got 4 months and 18 days in...go make a new acc and plz kill lotus within this time frame with Kanna see how you fare
oh and your not alloted to join any lvl 25 guild to help you the whole way make your own...my bet is, you dont make the cut mr,flexing his 10 years of reboot gameplay
Kanna is a support classes to begin with..it should not be fully on par with dps classes so its fine if its slightly lower on stats for bossing compare to pure dps breed
It is truly hard for me to take any of your other words seriously after reading this sentence...
1.Your words do not match the dev's opinion which I quote:
"In order to solve this, we decided to focus on Kanna’s damage rather than the party support ability.
As a result, Kanna can deal critical damage to enemies and we've adjusted some of the buffs from Spirit’s Domain for it."
Which basically say, we're putting down to sleep kanna as a support and make it more of a dps (overall their decision making led to minor change of damage and destroying the only use of kanna as a support), therefore your 'kanna is a support class' say doesn't match the gameplay nor the dev's opinion, the fact that you can say that after trying kanna hints for the fact their actions weren't done correctly.
2.Kanna not dealing dmg as support would've been a bigger argument IF this was a normal team play like other games were there are critical and clear roles.
In maple though, you don't have enough variety of supports/tank you basically have lots of dps (which pushes the player into selfish playstyle) and with the attacks being %hp dmg and def basically means nothing when it comes to bossing tank and support have no other meaning but to 'make the dps stronger' instead of actual team play or as some dps may say "I don't need you, you need me". Therefore the point of 'support shouldn't have damage' is totally wrong when it comes to maplestory gameplay.
3.Bishop is a top tier support with great damage and they even added them the 'bossing' mode so yet again your argument doesn't match with the dev's idea.
SO I am sorry but I couldn't get myself to read the continuation of your comment with so many problems on your first sentence that shows you do not look at the bigger picture and to maplestory compare to other games too.
Thank you for your time if you read this.
and plz bash the returning player i only got 4 months and 18 days in...go make a new acc and plz kill lotus within this time frame with Kanna see how you fare
oh and your not alloted to join any lvl 25 guild to help you the whole way make your own...my bet is, you dont make the cut mr,flexing his 10 years of reboot gameplay
Lil bro is clearing 3 doors … we’re not even playing the same game. Get off your high horse lol.
You can’t possibly be serious, just be honest and say you’re posting this as a meme to trigger people “ “
and what do you mean by "we're not playing the same game" ?
-
Arseni: "Kanna can now deal critical dmg" ....dude hello ? i'am suppose to necro old devs posts when i restart the game after 12 years not playing it ? because i was able to do crit dmg since creation of my Kanna.....is that the first thing you do when you start a game ? necroing old devs posts ? what kin of logic is that ?
Spirit Domain & the Barriers are still support skills unless you'd like to deny it ?
and what do you mean by "we're not playing the same game" ?
-
Arseni: "Kanna can now deal critical dmg" ....dude hello ? i'am suppose to necro old devs posts when i restart the game after 12 years not playing it ? because i was able to do crit dmg since creation of my Kanna.....is that the first thing you do when you start a game ? necroing old devs posts ? what kin of logic is that ?
Spirit Domain & the Barriers are still support skills unless you'd like to deny it ?
what are you even on about? did you read the patch notes of kanna's last nerf? you're talking to some people that have over 5k, 8k even 10k hours in this game (14k in my case), mostly spent on kanna as we're mostly kanna mains here, pushing for good things for the class we love when nexon keeps stomping the class to the ground every single time they touch them
I'm doing black mage and hseren every month/week and about to ding level 280, please don't think you know more about this class than we do
unless you're trolling & ragebaiting people into replying to your crappy posts, then good job I guess
ok i just went revisit the patch notes just for sake of making sure i wasn't mistaken
so.....i guess my memory was wrong in regard to crit dmg..although i tend to not read the devs feedback part and just read the skills change above
...they should not call it feedback and list it among the changes above the feedback section
although i didn't feel like my dps went up after that patch...unless i simply didn't notice
so imma apologize for that mistake on my part
i also reviewed my Kanna IED by hovering over the stat to calculate the sources of ied....so it seem i was mistaken about how IED formula work
i will also apologize for that
....while i made 2 mistakes...i think its fine to loose a bit of boss dmg % to get high crit %
...although a small increment to base crit///ied is fine...and i certainly want my vanq charm fix(just not the way this thread host wants it)
i'am not againts a small buff, but i dont agree with devs view of wanting to make Kanna a dps class over keeping it as a support
20-30% less dmg than pure dps class should be fine, make things a bit more challenging if going solo
My man, I am glad to see that you are coming around. Here are a couple more clarifications.
1. We did not receive any "critical damage" buffs. This was nexon's poor choice of wording to say that we will do more damage (we don't, this was a lie, 100% all the way)
2. This patch not only nerfed Kanna's support, it also nerfed endgame Kanna solo damage, we did not receive ANY buff at all this patch, despite what the devs think
3. Kannas do not deal 20-30% less damage than other classes. We deal roughly 50% less damage than the best classes, and 40% damage less than most other DPS classes. Endgame Kannas peak at around 250-260b/s, whereas endgame nightwalkers peak at 500b/s+. Other sub DPS classes that have support functions like Battlemage (~320b/s), Mechanic (~320b/s), Dawn Warrior (~450b/s) are all still significantly better than Kanna. Kanna is the single lowest damage class in the whole game by a significant margin
4. You are having a really rough time progressing your kanna because this class is complete garbage. You would have a much easier time attempting chaos vellum and normal lotus on pretty much any other class in the game
5. This is why there are so many Kanna feedback threads here. We are trying to get our class improved for once, after receiving continuous nerfs patch after patch for a year and a half. The thread hosts all know that the state of Kanna is trash, so its not helpful that you keep disagreeing when you clearly are new to the game and don't have a basis of comparison for what is strong and what is weak.
6. You should quit your Kanna and change mains if you want to progress. You will progress way faster this way.
i rather have vanq charm to be more like it was b4 the nerf than his suggestion to kill its use for mobbing and only leaving it good for bossing
although i would not mind keeping that 30% extra dps they added to it
the mana cost at 40 is too much indeed....20-25 however should be fine compare to the previously 15 mana cost and the current whack 40 mana
the ied issue i can acknowledge that and getting solid income of ied is much harder to get than crit
lets say adding 5-10% to the base crit + 10% ied to the base ied should prove to enough i think
others change i would certainly welcome for Kanna are Tengu//Exorcist Charm skill to get a much bigger % increase from the nodestones..especially Tengu
i like how Tengu work but its not strong enough to use at fourth//fifth job
btw i did make a Kanna feedback thread complaining bout the nerfs of that patch a while ago if you would be up to dig it..i made my own suggestions there..although ied//crit wasn't on my list in that thread
also seriously ? 50% less than the best class ????...thats a bit extreme
Even with 1 monster hit, vanquisher charm can still be used for mobbing due to the hyper passive that increases monsters hit. It was a thing you could do before it got changed from a hurricane skill to what we have now.
you seem to have built Kanna as an HP kanna and are also early game as well, HP gives Kanna a very strong raw power very early on, enough to 4 door CRA with Japanese set you get from Ranmaru with no legion and no links provided you got the IED. This raw early power can give false sense on how Kanna should be, since you won't feel "weak" like early game int (one line epic, no CRA, no absolab) kanna does.
I know the path of HP Kanna extremely well, it wasn't until around my 260's that I dropped below 400k HP, even now as I sit at 277 with 62k int I rock 150k HP, much higher than other Kanna's of my level and game progression. Please take it from me when I say this, HP Kanna should transition to int for level 200+ content. You WILL be weaker than Int kannas real fast.
As far as crit rate and IED goes, has to be 40% IED to make up for the shortfalls Kanna has. It would be one thing if our bossing skills had built in IED like for examples Lumi's ender, but we don't. We get 20% on certain skills with near max V booster nodes, but it isn't enough to make a big difference like 40% would.
For crit rate, personally I would LOVE to get 30% built in. Would free up so much resources focused on that just to bring up to 95% overall crit rate. In fact one of my old bossing party member was flabbergasted on just how much I have invested into crit rate and still end up with "only" 95%. While I would love it, it wasn't something I chose to focus on for my post. I focused on baby steps first.
tengu is at this very moment a large chunk of our overall damage done to a boss, and exo charm is currently the highest damage skill we have when maxed out with v booster nodes.
50% sounds about right. If my damage was doubled I would match the shade in my party for the moment, my gear is nearly maxed out, while his is not. If his damage was doubled he would be on par with the one of the top 7 classes. Just to put it into perspective.
Maohime....
i want to ask....does +Intel from legion effects get multiply by potential int% lines ? or is it like the Arc Orbs//Sacred Symbols which give no stats pair to potential % ?
also it leave me baffled that base Intel give more power than the mass ATK gain from HP...does end gear give so much ATK that it devalue the ATK from an HP build ?
especially surprise since Orbs & Symbols grant such a huge amount of Intel
also how did you get up to 60k intel ?
base Intel should be around 1375
+lets say +200 Intel on each piece of gear3600)(can it go even highter ?)
...+800 from all Legion classes giving +100 Intel at lvl 250 each
thats 5775
multiply by 540% from 54 Lines giving 10% Intel
.....57960(36,960 from gear + 21K from Orbs/Symbol max out)
only thing i haven't account for is 5-6% ALL Stats from bonus stats on 19 pieces of gear(pocket include)..but that would be 95-114%....so extra 5775 int ?
which would bring it up to 63735 intel
but seriously though...you got ALL of your pieces of gear at 22 star + Perf Legendary potential on each piece ?????? on top of as well mass lvl 250 alts
without all that its practicly impossible to reach that high intel...or i'am i missing something ?
and if my understanding is correct...Intel build overtake HP build when you start delving into 22 stars territory correct ?...i dont think lvl 200 alone is enough to devalue the HP build because at that point there a massive surge of intel from orbs//symbols which would imbalance MATT//Intel greatly
Point 2: "I want more damage!" (Will be ignored.) and "Make my class worse and remove any unique identity Kanna has!" Also Haku scales with how strong his fan is, so impossible to change this without an absolute complete overall and turning it into an entirely different skill altogether.
Point 3: "I want more damage!" (Will be ignored.)
Point 4: Fair, but make the max enemies hit 3 from 8 instead of 1 from 8. This one actually is a gameplay adjustment and will be considered for a future change.
Maohime....
i want to ask....does +Intel from legion effects get multiply by potential int% lines ? or is it like the Arc Orbs//Sacred Symbols which give no stats pair to potential % ?
It does not. Character Legion (IE: Bishop, +100 Stat) is flat stat where as the actual grid locations are affected by stat%.
also how did you get up to 60k intel ?
base Intel should be around 1375
It would be higher as you're forgetting some bonuses that get applied upon getting a new job.
For example, my STR is 1398 at 276.
multiply by 540% from 54 Lines giving 10% Intel
.....57960(36,960 from gear + 21K from Orbs/Symbol max out)
only thing i haven't account for is 5-6% ALL Stats from bonus stats on 19 pieces of gear(pocket include)..but that would be 95-114%....so extra 5775 int ?
which would bring it up to 63735 intel
You're low balling by forgetting about prime lines.
Most players at our level are going to be going for 3L minimum with most of our gear pushing 2L Prime. (Which is 13%/13%/10% or 12%/12%/9%)
60k stat is harder to reach sure but it's far from impossible. It's not even end-game, just very late game.
I sit just under 60k stat with my highest SF'd stuff on and several pieces aren't even 20* or 2L Prime yet.
Maohime....
i want to ask....does +Intel from legion effects get multiply by potential int% lines ? or is it like the Arc Orbs//Sacred Symbols which give no stats pair to potential % ?
Don't think so, I honestly don't pay attention. I do know legion grid does though.
also it leave me baffled that base Intel give more power than the mass ATK gain from HP...does end gear give so much ATK that it devalue the ATK from an HP build ?
especially surprise since Orbs & Symbols grant such a huge amount of Intel
The issue with HP in Kanna is that it caps out rather easily. Also int sources out pace HP sources very fast past level 200. It is best to think of HP as training wheels. Real easy to get large amounts of it with hyperbody, ephenia soul (50%/60%), beast tamer link, that HP link, dom pendant (which I am still rocking btw), easy to get set effects. But once you start getting decent chunks of int each int% far out paces what HP% gives you.
also how did you get up to 60k intel ?
base Intel should be around 1375
+lets say +200 Intel on each piece of gear3600)(can it go even highter ?)
...+800 from all Legion classes giving +100 Intel at lvl 250 each
thats 5775
multiply by 540% from 54 Lines giving 10% Intel
.....57960(36,960 from gear + 21K from Orbs/Symbol max out)
only thing i haven't account for is 5-6% ALL Stats from bonus stats on 19 pieces of gear(pocket include)..but that would be 95-114%....so extra 5775 int ?
which would bring it up to 63735 intel
but seriously though...you got ALL of your pieces of gear at 22 star + Perf Legendary potential on each piece ?????? on top of as well mass lvl 250 alts
without all that its practicly impossible to reach that high intel...or i'am i missing something ?
This picture was taken when I was at 60k if it helps any. I have since made all gears except superior pendant 21 star. At this moment I sit on 62.5k stat. I would make an updated gear picture but my laptop died the other day, once I get a new Potato PC running I can give you the up to date version if you want. As far as arcane/sac goes I am max arcane (level 20's) and my sac symbol levels are 9/7/6.
and if my understanding is correct...Intel build overtake HP build when you start delving into 22 stars territory correct ?...i dont think lvl 200 alone is enough to devalue the HP build because at that point there a massive surge of intel from orbs//symbols which would imbalance MATT//Intel greatly
Around 17 stars from my experience. Exception being rings. Specifically the 4k HP/MP rings. Depending on overall HP% you have they can match a 22 star kanna ring, but the more int% lines you get they quickly fall towards Equalling 18 star gear. Is it worth it? No. Why? Because that is comparing a 30% 4k/4k HP ring vs 30% int 22 kanna ring. With a very narrow total HP% zone. I have spent far more meso's cubing all 3 4k HP rings trying to get 30% int on them than I spent getting fake 3 lines on stat rings AND getting them to 22 star. They are nice as a back up option in case you boom, don't lose out on too much raw damage. But not worth the mesos. Toss event cubes on them, but not meso cubes for anything past 2 line int 1 line HP/MP.
Why did I go for int instead of hp lines? I capped 500k with just epics and hybperbody. My only gains was from int lines.
Also please do not follow my path. I used black cubes hunting for better int+HP lines and almost all of my 3 lines, fake and real were accidentals. I have spent far more mesos on cubes than I have on starforcing. Which is nearing 400bill. Please follow the guides and use them as a guideline for cheaper and easier progression path.
While I still go for HP lines in flames, I do so fully knowing I am actively gimping my progression due to my love for HP Kanna. I will spend thousands of reds buying 300 at a time to get the lines I want. I would not recommend others to do so since it is very expensive and frankly idiotic to go over a hard settle because there is a wasted line that could have been HP/MP. Which is something I do. Because I am idiotic in this regard. As others can attest to. Very easily.
Comments
the mana cost dont have to go back down at 10...it was fine at 15 and i think a start cost of 20-25 is fine if they slowly ramp up the cost over time by increments of about 1 to 2 over 10 sec....40 however as a full time cost has indeed been an excessive cost up from 15....its currently useless for mobbing and very difficult to set up for bossing(unusable without yuki-hime)
dont destroy the skill further plz ....i'd like it to be usefull for mobbing again and NOT become an overpower boss skill with a cost cheaper than it use to be
in regard to haku blessing.....% M-ATK would be a problem...idk if you noticed the job Zero skill that Kanna has.....she can net up to 714 M-ATK for having 500,000 HP
% M-ATK would increase that to absurd amount..... 714 M-ATK is the equivalent of all pieces of gear enhanced to like 22 stars
so i can't agree with you for that
Ignore defense problem can be solve by familiar badges, IED on emblem, and Legion grid
although unlocking legion grid is unfriendly....and a much needed upgrade regardless of if you need the ied from it
i'am currently 4 month and 16 days in(no-life gamer and i do struggle advancing the legion grid).....my hightest lvl char is a Kanna(lvl 250)..follow by Khali in second at 240.....however i do recognize the legion grid as being much needed(even if my base IED would be highter)...the sheer amount of stats all of the char cards bring is obvious....the time sink it took to bring mass characters to 140-200 is absurd.....especially afterland//mushroom shrine which have unending walls of text and make you be idle for a long time......the strain is there even without the ied issue cause legion exist....i'am not even focusing my Kanna anymore....i'am putting all my effort into powering up my legion lvls....at least alts lvling is getting faster with a lot of high dps links skills//decent legion power for 10-140 range...but still a pain
oh and..i'am praticly duo lvling the guild i made...i dont yet have that luxurious +50 ATK from lvl 15-25 nor the +50 All Stats
unfortunetly the lvl wont advance much untill all my alts are around 210 with decently powerful orbs to chain kill mass bosses at high speed for lots of guild points
This also makes no sense and makes it clear you do not have a full understanding of the formulas in this game. Blessing of the Five Elements, the skill you are referring to here, grants FINAL magic attack, meaning it is not affected by % magic attack like the OP is suggesting. This means 714 matk pales in comparison to the the gains from enhancing even a couple pieces of gear to 22 stars, let alone all of it.
The point here is that other classes do not need to do this. Kanna is both IED and crit rate starved, so while you are investing legion, hypers, familiars, etc. into those, other classes are able to invest that into damage. This means that Kanna is forced to use these sources while other classes can invest in things like Boss Damage, Crit Damage, etc. and further the gap between Kanna and other classes
secondly....thx for notifying me that % M-ATT doesn't affect the M-ATT gain from her job zero skills...while its true that i dont have a full knowledge of gimmicks in the dps formula its still weird that M-ATT % affect gear M-ATT but not the M-ATT gain from the skill....in such case then i'am not sure if that would be a good idea...while end-game likely gonna benefit more from it..the early game will suffer from it
Crit Rate wise.....just get 50% from Honor Lines in exchange for 30% Boss dmg(better than using Legion grid or potential for it)
get 10% from Beast Tamer Link SKill
and last 20% can be from Phantom Link Skill
easy 80% like that
Ignore Defense is certainly harder to cover(cause familiar badges take a while to farm)
but you can net
10% from Hyper Stats
20% from Light Wash Link Skill
10% From Rhine Blessing Link Skill
20% from full CRA gear set
15% from familiar badges
also unsure if unreliable but summoned familiar give 15% ied
so 75-90% IED
You are right, this change might slightly affect early game... But we shouldn't be balancing the class around the first 200 levels or so. This change would be a huge boon for anyone taking their Kanna to 250, using it as a bossing mule, or mainging it. your argument here is essentially that we should gimp all mid-late-endgame Kannas just to make the early game easier on a class that already has an incredibly easier early game
You are missing my point. If you are using 50% crit rate on honor you are griefing yourself. Other classes don't need to do this. Other classes can hit higher crit rates naturally, so they do not need to use their inner ability to get it. They can use their inner for more damage. Kanna is stuck in that they need to use their inner abilities to get 20% crit rate, leaving 1 less line to get something like 10% boss damage or 7% damage to targets affected by abnormal status. Kanna shouldn't need to sacrifice Inner/Hyper/Legion just to get something that other classes have by default
This is not how IED works. IED is multiplicative, and most bosses have 300% Defense.
Firstly, those lines would result in 1 - ((1-0.1) * (1-0.2)*(1-0.1)*(1-0.2)*(1-0.15)*(1-0.15)) = 0.625456, or 62.5456% IED
On a boss with 300% Defense (Every Boss from CRA to Black Mage), this would result in you doing 1 - (3.00 * ( 1 - 0.625456)) = -0.123632, or -12% Damage (in game, this would mean you can only hit 1s on the boss. If you factor in the suggested 40% IED, this would instead become 77.52% IED, and you would actually be able to damage those bosses.
Moreover, this is just another example of Kanna lacking base stats that other class have innately. Other classes do not need to stack IED as aggressively on Hyper/Familiars/WSE/Legion in order to actually do damage in bosses.
Maohime is an experienced Kanna player, and his suggestions are valid. I do not understand why you insist on being contrarian and wanting to play the class on "hard mode". All these buffs he suggested would make the class better to play and bring it in line with the other classes in the game. From your own admission, you seem to be early/mid game, and I promise you once you hit mid/late game you would absolutely love to have these changes for your Kanna.
its like 10-15% less dps overall
as for Vanq Charm for mobbing...it fill in the gaps between Yukihime///Orochi//Nine Tail Fury down time....and its pretty neat to have on command for elites mobs
its 57 sec cd for me cause of Mercedes Legion effect
my Kanna currently has 71.62% IED from detail sheet.....and i can kill 3 of CRA bosses no issues solo
she got all the stuff i listed except Familiar Badges and a Familiar
EDIT: i forgot AbsoLab -10% as well(was from flame event)
Vellum on the other his defense is much highter so my dps tickle him but its not 1 dmg
but if its multiplicative as you say i should be doing 1 dmg base on your maths
not entirely sure where you got that formula but it has to be incorrect if i can solo kill 3 of the cra bosses with 71.62% IED on my Kanna AND hurt vellum with some damage
if the formula work like this however 300% divide by 100 X 28.38 = 85.14% resistance..which mean i should be doing 14.86% of my dps to him......which seem accurate when i fought Vellum
28.38% of 300% wasn't removed by the 71.62% IED
well say what you will but i'd recommend to test the validity of the formula you picked up by applying it directly in combat
with this said....spaghetti coding could exist on some classes which may result in abnormal results if thats what the formula should be
and in such case more than 100% IED would be needed to bring 300% def near 5-15% resistance
..in regard to being experience it mean absolutly nothing, playing long time dont mean being the smartest or even making good choices all the time
btw 30% less boss dmg out of like (250% boss dmg + 90% dmg(any enemy type)....... its like 8.8% less dmg total...not a too massive lost if you ask me
assuming i'am not mistaken and that boss dmg and dmg % get added to each other when attacking bosses
second i never claimed that 70% ied in the detail screen was strong, i only stated the amount i had in my detail screen period and which is sufficient for 3 of those bosses
your the one actually looking like a clown by not reading properly
in regard to normal lotus i'am not going to fight him yet....if i can't beat C-Vellum, what chance would i have vs lotus whom crystal value is much highter ?
and plz bash the returning player
oh and your not alloted to join any lvl 25 guild to help you the whole way
It is truly hard for me to take any of your other words seriously after reading this sentence...
1.Your words do not match the dev's opinion which I quote:
"In order to solve this, we decided to focus on Kanna’s damage rather than the party support ability.
As a result, Kanna can deal critical damage to enemies and we've adjusted some of the buffs from Spirit’s Domain for it."
Which basically say, we're putting down to sleep kanna as a support and make it more of a dps (overall their decision making led to minor change of damage and destroying the only use of kanna as a support), therefore your 'kanna is a support class' say doesn't match the gameplay nor the dev's opinion, the fact that you can say that after trying kanna hints for the fact their actions weren't done correctly.
2.Kanna not dealing dmg as support would've been a bigger argument IF this was a normal team play like other games were there are critical and clear roles.
In maple though, you don't have enough variety of supports/tank you basically have lots of dps (which pushes the player into selfish playstyle) and with the attacks being %hp dmg and def basically means nothing when it comes to bossing tank and support have no other meaning but to 'make the dps stronger' instead of actual team play or as some dps may say "I don't need you, you need me". Therefore the point of 'support shouldn't have damage' is totally wrong when it comes to maplestory gameplay.
3.Bishop is a top tier support with great damage and they even added them the 'bossing' mode so yet again your argument doesn't match with the dev's idea.
SO I am sorry but I couldn't get myself to read the continuation of your comment with so many problems on your first sentence that shows you do not look at the bigger picture and to maplestory compare to other games too.
Thank you for your time if you read this.
Lil bro is clearing 3 doors … we’re not even playing the same game. Get off your high horse lol.
You can’t possibly be serious, just be honest and say you’re posting this as a meme to trigger people “
and what do you mean by "we're not playing the same game" ?
-
Arseni: "Kanna can now deal critical dmg" ....dude hello ? i'am suppose to necro old devs posts when i restart the game after 12 years not playing it ? because i was able to do crit dmg since creation of my Kanna.....is that the first thing you do when you start a game ? necroing old devs posts ? what kin of logic is that ?
Spirit Domain & the Barriers are still support skills unless you'd like to deny it ?
what are you even on about? did you read the patch notes of kanna's last nerf? you're talking to some people that have over 5k, 8k even 10k hours in this game (14k in my case), mostly spent on kanna as we're mostly kanna mains here, pushing for good things for the class we love when nexon keeps stomping the class to the ground every single time they touch them
I'm doing black mage and hseren every month/week and about to ding level 280, please don't think you know more about this class than we do
unless you're trolling & ragebaiting people into replying to your crappy posts, then good job I guess
so.....i guess my memory was wrong in regard to crit dmg..although i tend to not read the devs feedback part and just read the skills change above
...they should not call it feedback and list it among the changes above the feedback section
although i didn't feel like my dps went up after that patch...unless i simply didn't notice
so imma apologize for that mistake on my part
i also reviewed my Kanna IED by hovering over the stat to calculate the sources of ied....so it seem i was mistaken about how IED formula work
i will also apologize for that
....while i made 2 mistakes...i think its fine to loose a bit of boss dmg % to get high crit %
...although a small increment to base crit///ied is fine...and i certainly want my vanq charm fix(just not the way this thread host wants it)
i'am not againts a small buff, but i dont agree with devs view of wanting to make Kanna a dps class over keeping it as a support
20-30% less dmg than pure dps class should be fine, make things a bit more challenging if going solo
1. We did not receive any "critical damage" buffs. This was nexon's poor choice of wording to say that we will do more damage (we don't, this was a lie, 100% all the way)
2. This patch not only nerfed Kanna's support, it also nerfed endgame Kanna solo damage, we did not receive ANY buff at all this patch, despite what the devs think
3. Kannas do not deal 20-30% less damage than other classes. We deal roughly 50% less damage than the best classes, and 40% damage less than most other DPS classes. Endgame Kannas peak at around 250-260b/s, whereas endgame nightwalkers peak at 500b/s+. Other sub DPS classes that have support functions like Battlemage (~320b/s), Mechanic (~320b/s), Dawn Warrior (~450b/s) are all still significantly better than Kanna. Kanna is the single lowest damage class in the whole game by a significant margin
4. You are having a really rough time progressing your kanna because this class is complete garbage. You would have a much easier time attempting chaos vellum and normal lotus on pretty much any other class in the game
5. This is why there are so many Kanna feedback threads here. We are trying to get our class improved for once, after receiving continuous nerfs patch after patch for a year and a half. The thread hosts all know that the state of Kanna is trash, so its not helpful that you keep disagreeing when you clearly are new to the game and don't have a basis of comparison for what is strong and what is weak.
6. You should quit your Kanna and change mains if you want to progress. You will progress way faster this way.
although i would not mind keeping that 30% extra dps they added to it
the mana cost at 40 is too much indeed....20-25 however should be fine compare to the previously 15 mana cost and the current whack 40 mana
the ied issue i can acknowledge that and getting solid income of ied is much harder to get than crit
lets say adding 5-10% to the base crit + 10% ied to the base ied should prove to enough i think
others change i would certainly welcome for Kanna are Tengu//Exorcist Charm skill to get a much bigger % increase from the nodestones..especially Tengu
i like how Tengu work but its not strong enough to use at fourth//fifth job
btw i did make a Kanna feedback thread complaining bout the nerfs of that patch a while ago if you would be up to dig it..i made my own suggestions there..although ied//crit wasn't on my list in that thread
also seriously ? 50% less than the best class ????...thats a bit extreme
you seem to have built Kanna as an HP kanna and are also early game as well, HP gives Kanna a very strong raw power very early on, enough to 4 door CRA with Japanese set you get from Ranmaru with no legion and no links provided you got the IED. This raw early power can give false sense on how Kanna should be, since you won't feel "weak" like early game int (one line epic, no CRA, no absolab) kanna does.
I know the path of HP Kanna extremely well, it wasn't until around my 260's that I dropped below 400k HP, even now as I sit at 277 with 62k int I rock 150k HP, much higher than other Kanna's of my level and game progression. Please take it from me when I say this, HP Kanna should transition to int for level 200+ content. You WILL be weaker than Int kannas real fast.
As far as crit rate and IED goes, has to be 40% IED to make up for the shortfalls Kanna has. It would be one thing if our bossing skills had built in IED like for examples Lumi's ender, but we don't. We get 20% on certain skills with near max V booster nodes, but it isn't enough to make a big difference like 40% would.
For crit rate, personally I would LOVE to get 30% built in. Would free up so much resources focused on that just to bring up to 95% overall crit rate. In fact one of my old bossing party member was flabbergasted on just how much I have invested into crit rate and still end up with "only" 95%. While I would love it, it wasn't something I chose to focus on for my post. I focused on baby steps first.
tengu is at this very moment a large chunk of our overall damage done to a boss, and exo charm is currently the highest damage skill we have when maxed out with v booster nodes.
50% sounds about right. If my damage was doubled I would match the shade in my party for the moment, my gear is nearly maxed out, while his is not. If his damage was doubled he would be on par with the one of the top 7 classes. Just to put it into perspective.
i want to ask....does +Intel from legion effects get multiply by potential int% lines ? or is it like the Arc Orbs//Sacred Symbols which give no stats pair to potential % ?
also it leave me baffled that base Intel give more power than the mass ATK gain from HP...does end gear give so much ATK that it devalue the ATK from an HP build ?
especially surprise since Orbs & Symbols grant such a huge amount of Intel
also how did you get up to 60k intel ?
base Intel should be around 1375
+lets say +200 Intel on each piece of gear3600)(can it go even highter ?)
...+800 from all Legion classes giving +100 Intel at lvl 250 each
thats 5775
multiply by 540% from 54 Lines giving 10% Intel
.....57960(36,960 from gear + 21K from Orbs/Symbol max out)
only thing i haven't account for is 5-6% ALL Stats from bonus stats on 19 pieces of gear(pocket include)..but that would be 95-114%....so extra 5775 int ?
which would bring it up to 63735 intel
but seriously though...you got ALL of your pieces of gear at 22 star + Perf Legendary potential on each piece ?????? on top of as well mass lvl 250 alts
without all that its practicly impossible to reach that high intel...or i'am i missing something ?
and if my understanding is correct...Intel build overtake HP build when you start delving into 22 stars territory correct ?...i dont think lvl 200 alone is enough to devalue the HP build because at that point there a massive surge of intel from orbs//symbols which would imbalance MATT//Intel greatly
Point 2: "I want more damage!" (Will be ignored.) and "Make my class worse and remove any unique identity Kanna has!" Also Haku scales with how strong his fan is, so impossible to change this without an absolute complete overall and turning it into an entirely different skill altogether.
Point 3: "I want more damage!" (Will be ignored.)
Point 4: Fair, but make the max enemies hit 3 from 8 instead of 1 from 8. This one actually is a gameplay adjustment and will be considered for a future change.
It would be higher as you're forgetting some bonuses that get applied upon getting a new job.
For example, my STR is 1398 at 276. You're low balling by forgetting about prime lines.
Most players at our level are going to be going for 3L minimum with most of our gear pushing 2L Prime. (Which is 13%/13%/10% or 12%/12%/9%)
60k stat is harder to reach sure but it's far from impossible. It's not even end-game, just very late game.
I sit just under 60k stat with my highest SF'd stuff on and several pieces aren't even 20* or 2L Prime yet.
The issue with HP in Kanna is that it caps out rather easily. Also int sources out pace HP sources very fast past level 200. It is best to think of HP as training wheels. Real easy to get large amounts of it with hyperbody, ephenia soul (50%/60%), beast tamer link, that HP link, dom pendant (which I am still rocking btw), easy to get set effects. But once you start getting decent chunks of int each int% far out paces what HP% gives you.
This picture was taken when I was at 60k if it helps any. I have since made all gears except superior pendant 21 star. At this moment I sit on 62.5k stat. I would make an updated gear picture but my laptop died the other day, once I get a new Potato PC running I can give you the up to date version if you want. As far as arcane/sac goes I am max arcane (level 20's) and my sac symbol levels are 9/7/6.
Around 17 stars from my experience. Exception being rings. Specifically the 4k HP/MP rings. Depending on overall HP% you have they can match a 22 star kanna ring, but the more int% lines you get they quickly fall towards Equalling 18 star gear. Is it worth it? No. Why? Because that is comparing a 30% 4k/4k HP ring vs 30% int 22 kanna ring. With a very narrow total HP% zone. I have spent far more meso's cubing all 3 4k HP rings trying to get 30% int on them than I spent getting fake 3 lines on stat rings AND getting them to 22 star. They are nice as a back up option in case you boom, don't lose out on too much raw damage. But not worth the mesos. Toss event cubes on them, but not meso cubes for anything past 2 line int 1 line HP/MP.
Why did I go for int instead of hp lines? I capped 500k with just epics and hybperbody. My only gains was from int lines.
Also please do not follow my path. I used black cubes hunting for better int+HP lines and almost all of my 3 lines, fake and real were accidentals. I have spent far more mesos on cubes than I have on starforcing. Which is nearing 400bill. Please follow the guides and use them as a guideline for cheaper and easier progression path.
While I still go for HP lines in flames, I do so fully knowing I am actively gimping my progression due to my love for HP Kanna. I will spend thousands of reds buying 300 at a time to get the lines I want. I would not recommend others to do so since it is very expensive and frankly idiotic to go over a hard settle because there is a wasted line that could have been HP/MP. Which is something I do. Because I am idiotic in this regard. As others can attest to. Very easily.