Eikahe

Aggraphine wrote: »

Krownop wrote: »

Aggraphine wrote: »

Posts like that do nothing to disprove my point that kishin has caused a severely toxic mindset to take hold in this game...

Just because people like a feature and you don't, that doesn't mean that its toxic, the reason why people are mad about the changes is because the feature is gonna suffer a complete nerf without any benefits for the rest of game (no spawn rates increase or making the wild totem better than kishin and cheaper).
At this point you're just projecting your own toxicity on hating a feature on people that like it.

Tell me, when was the last time you elected to go and grind for a couple hours, or cap coins during events, without kishin, a fury or frenzy totem, or buying service of any of the three? This goes far beyond "people like a feature". This is people having a reliance on a feature that, in its absence, they feel no desire to do anything that they would normally do with it present.

People "like" meth too, doesn't make it good. An overreliance on a single thing absolutely is toxic. Trying to claim that it isn't because "people like it" is ridiculous.

I know I'm late to reply, but I think your rhetoric isn't accurate to the scenario that we've been placed in as a community.

The reason that Kishin is toxic isn't because people are simply addicted to min-maxing isn't the point. It's toxic because while KMS has had patches and updates to increase and change the spawn rate in their servers for years, GMS has never had that. Initially, the mentality that people were too lazy to not train without it was the case because the first Kishin was absolutely broken and was too good. Nerfs were inevitable, and that's fine. The problem now is that our spawn rates have been untouched for years, and the only way to increase them to better fit the game's increasing mobility and map-clearing capabilities is through a singular character's skill. To gain even a decent amount of progress without shooting themselves in the foot, people are effectively forced to make a Kanna to get Kishin, and because our Star Force rates are DOUBLE that of KMS, who has better natural spawn rates than us, we've been pigeonholed into a situation where we absolutely can't progress at a reasonable pace WITHOUT it.

Nerfing it and making every class other than Kanna even harder to train does absolutely nothing to address this or balance anything. It only increases the reliance on it more and more, thus prompting even more "nerfs" to fix the situation that only dig the hole deeper and deeper. The problem isn't with people being overly attached with it, it's that nothing's changed to improve the game to make it so either spawn-rate increasers are READILY accessible (15 hours a month is a drop in the bucket for anyone remotely dedicated to the game), or the base rates haven't been changed/Kishin removed to bring us closer to KMS standards.

I mentioned in the main thread that making a V Node for Kishin would basically fix all of these problems in the same way it fixed the overreliance on Bishops and HS clogging up the servers with mules, yet they haven't changed that at all. People were 'lazy' and 'addicted' to HS, too, but after they nerfed it, they made it accessible to everyone, they made EXP increasing items more accessible, and people have never complained about it again. It hasn't been an issue because everyone can reasonably acquire it, unlike Kishin. Totems were just a terrible bandaid for the problem and didn't increase accessibility enough to make a dent in Kishin mules and 2PC in this case.

None of this would be an issue if they made Kishin a V Node skill and simply allowed players to play their mains without needing to make a Kanna to get anywhere at a decent pace. We don't have the same spawn rates as KMS so Kishin is all we have to normalize our progress. The solution is to make Kishin more accessible, not to make it worse. They did it with Holy Symbol with Bishops were the 2PC meta, and it changed everything for the better. It made everyone happy. There's such a simple solution they could make and it baffles me that they don't take it and make their playerbase and community happy.

There's absolutely nothing to gain by alienating your loyal playerbase and pushing them away through these "healthy balance changes" when you've made the right decisions in the past and have been applauded for it.

TheObservant wrote: »

I already spoke on this on reddit but I'll add my 2 cents here in the misguided hope that Nexon will actually listen to us for once.

Before kannas the 2-PC meta was having a HS mule. This was broken and unbalanced af because this one character changed the meta drastically. They balanced this correctly by nerfing HS but also giving us decent HS as well as other ways to get free exp buffs (monster park Sundays, spirit pendants, fairy bros giveaways, mercedes/evan link, bonus exp legion and hyper passives, rest exp coupons, etc) so players don't feel like they need HS is the first place.

Kishin is the exact same way. Its existence, no matter how much they nerf it, is toxic to the meta. Its effect needs to be widely accessible without using 2-PCs. The base spawn rate needs to be increased for the whole game and the spawn effect for kishin and fury need to be removed altogether for this to truly be balanced. This isn't even something that needs to go through Nexon Korea because KMS doesn't have kanna and they have a different spawn algorithm anyway. Nexon America was all 'we can't do that because of server stability' when we know that's nonsense. When kishin was glitched and its effect was permanent the servers were fine. It's not the spawn rate that's putting a strain on the servers, it's the fact that for a large portion of the population, there are two accounts logged in for one person because they're using a kishin mule.

Balance is not simply nerfing kishin and totems with nothing on the other side of the equation upping the spawn rate. Balance would be to remove kishin, AND increasing the base spawn rate. Or if they refuse to increase the base spawn rate they need to do the same thing they did for HS and nerf it so it only benefits the caster, while making it a decent skill and providing spawn rate buffs.

Not even gonna address frenzy because it's busted on a whole other level. Ideally i'd like to see the spawn effect removed and replaced with something equally desirable so people who have one already don't feel shafted.

I agree so sincerely with this entire statement. The fix to all of this isn't to punish everyone who doesn't play Kanna by making it harder for them to train. The best and healthiest way to adjust the 2PC meta has always been to make spawn rate increasing much more accessible to all players. If people had no reason to build a second account just to level past a certain point or didn't feel shoehorned into playing a singular class in order to progress, then people absolutely would. If Kishin was turned into a V Node like Decent Holy Symbol, started at ~50% uptime at level 1 and increased to 100% by the time you got it to max, the servers would be much more stable, people could play any class OTHER than Kanna without being punished for not having one. Totems, as they exist now, could be used as an aid for lower level training or could be used to bridge the gap until the V Node is leveled, thus opening up Totem use for other characters players might want to level. The best part about all of that is that Kanna would remain great and efficient at her job, but people would be able to progress at similar rates with their OWN classes. It would open the possibility for farming to happen naturally.

The only "problem" I could see with V Node Kishin is that people could opt to make a "Kishin mule" for characters below level 200, but... let's be real. 1-200 is essentially the tutorial for any class you're playing and the effect would be so minimal that people wouldn't really bother unless they were absolutely tryharding to level as fast as possible. It wouldn't be an issue at all, and instead of using monthly totems on mains, they'd be used on alts anyways, so even that problem wouldn't be as egregious as anyone would believe it to be.

The worst part about all of this is that Nexon won't read a single word of it, and it's disappointing. They fixed this same problem before with Bishops and 2PC, but refuse to do the exact same thing with this and make everyone's lives much easier. If anything I posted here could reach the higher ups and make a difference, it would mean so much. I truly believe making Kishin a Nodestone skill would fix virtually everything, reduce the reliance on 2PC, and maintain Kanna's identity with Kishin with these current changes that reward active play VS AFKing.

...Wow. Uh, what? Was this due to his family issues or was that just a ruse to cover up that he was getting canned?