«12»I will end our shedding of tears right here

Fuhreak

fidgetspinnerACE wrote: »

I've said this before, but if Nexon really cared, they'd try to make the game better. Yea, they're a business, and their current model is working in other countries, but instead of trying to make Maplestory into a long-term plan to milk players, what if they just sat down and really try to work out what makes players want to play Maple instead of dubiously creating stockholme-syndrome mechanics and tightly controlling player progress.

I would argue that's what Nexon is trying to do as of late. What with Kanna rework, frequent memos, bringing back weekly ban data, etc.
Nexon is trying, everyone just wants to ignore all their efforts because Maple isn't being fixed over night.

Biased personal experience. I'm not sure why you're trying to even downplay on receiving loot/exp when it's one of the core tenets of Maplestory, due to grinding. No one wants to feel like their wasting their time when Maple has so many ways to, and for better results.

I didn't. I said if you care about party play that loot/exp comes second. Which it does if you play Maple to be social.
I also don't feel like being social in a game originally designed for being social is a waste of time.

Even if the community adopts a more proactive attitude on party-play, sacrificing material gain for that party enjoyment, what do those players have to look forward to? How does Maplestory actually cater to those who want to party? Using your example, is it still fun to share this map with someone? Sure. Wouldn't it be better if the map was designed for more than one person, and necessitated conscious party-player interactions and impact? Surely, that would be even better. But there is no hook, no incentive, nothing. You are literally doing the same thing as if you were doing things solo plus x number of players in the same map as you are, except less map space and gains.

They look forward to playing with their friends. Nexon can't force you to be social. Even if party play was better, it is still up to you, the player, to be social.
Nexon isn't going to care that much about unused features. Fact of the matter is if you want them to make party play better, you're going to have to use it.
I still stand by party play is easier/faster than solo grind anyway. You're not going to convince me otherwise on that one.

I mean, if "being slower or faster is a non-issue" then we'd have little further need to look at than at the state of Kannas.

Different issue entirely. 2PC Meta needs to die.

Yea, I wonder how vocal the massive amount of players that stopped playing Maplestory over the years are.

People still playing the game complain about this. I don't know what you're talking about.

Riza please format.

riza wrote: »

Also, the problem or one of the main factors the game is failing and the community is as angry and hate mongering and negative as it is, is mostly because of party playing.
Party playing in most to all games has one universal goal, that goal is to connect people and build communities. Back when you used to train for you to get the best out of it you had to wait and join parties.
Once joining those parties you sometimes converse or socialize, just looking at it from a sociological view you can see how conditioning people to socialize or party can help build game communities.

This is what I was saying. Players aren't entirely innocent. They could actually help with the state of the game.
Making friends isn't a waste of time. How are you going to make friends in MapleStory if you don't party?
By sitting around in town talking? Why not just do that in a party while grinding? It's more fun that way and you progress anyway.

fidgetspinnerACE

I would argue that's what Nexon is trying to do as of late. What with Kanna rework, frequent memos, bringing back weekly ban data, etc.
Nexon is trying, everyone just wants to ignore all their efforts because Maple isn't being fixed over night.

To be clear, I'm not criticizing any fixes or other general support GMS is doing - they are doing fine (besides the surprise channel removal). It is the KMS team, the ones who greenlit everything and can create change, are the ones I'm having troubles with. They're the ones leading what type of content to be created. And while I don't necessarily hate their direction, they are meandering through what I feel should be better used elsewhere. For example, the Black Mage event had an event ability tree that allowed additional buffs to certain activities. I wish that would be integrated to guild skills, as to give it more value to being in a guild as well as doing those activities.

I didn't. I said if you care about party play that loot/exp comes second. Which it does if you play Maple to be social.
I also don't feel like being social in a game originally designed for being social is a waste of time.

The problem is currently, you can't even call party play being your priority along with loot/exp, when loot/exp becomes inferior. Not a close second, it becomes strictly inferior, when the opposite is not true. You can say the game can be for more social activities but that's not worth much when there are much more worth for activities for solo-play.

They look forward to playing with their friends. Nexon can't force you to be social. Even if party play was better, it is still up to you, the player, to be social.
Nexon isn't going to care that much about unused features. Fact of the matter is if you want them to make party play better, you're going to have to use it.
I still stand by party play is easier/faster than solo grind anyway. You're not going to convince me otherwise on that one.

I'm not arguing the ability to be social, it is the platform that Nexon has made, which is faulty, is what I am referring to. Of course if party play were made better, more people would use it - I mean, if Jetts and Beast Tamers finally get their deserved buffs (read: fixes), wouldn't more players be more inclined to play them? What does having to use a faulty system have to do with proving that it is unusable? Especially when it was Nexon themselves that made it unusable? They can buff classes every other patch but can't lift a finger for even updating PQ rewards? (Also like to note how there is a clear divide for training and bossing: Bishops and Kanna for grinding, any other class is unnecessary. For bosses, the group is supported by Bishops, and a few other select classes for their abilities, every other class is a different flavor of DPS).

Different issue entirely. 2PC Meta needs to die.

2PC meta does need to die. Still, I was referring to the fact that with Kanna, it shows the extreme state of what constitutes as party play now, and shows the state of solo grinding. The monsters are brainless fodder, little player interaction, and all that is cared for is acquisition in the least time possible. Runes are the only serious break in this stale gameplay loop. Having map-specific bosses was a great idea, but when they're generically-designed shadows that can show up anywhere, with generic rewards, it's hard to get excited about it. This is the same ineffectiveness as with potion-lock mobs.

People still playing the game complain about this. I don't know what you're talking about.

Have you ever thought that people might have quit with the lack of party-play?

SlicedTime

riza wrote: »

fidgetspinnerACE wrote: »

I personally disagree. Nexon is doing a great deal of trying for a game that is barely worth running.
I've even heard claims that they operate at a loss. If Nexon didn't care they'd just pull the plug instead of bleeding more money.
The players have a lot more power to change things than they give credit to. Even a dying game can have a friendly and welcoming community.
This is an issue that not only Nexon, but also players have the power to adapt to and fight back against.

I've said this before, but if Nexon really cared, they'd try to make the game better. Yea, they're a business, and their current model is working in other countries, but instead of trying to make Maplestory into a long-term plan to milk players, what if they just sat down and really try to work out what makes players want to play Maple instead of dubiously creating stockholme-syndrome mechanics and tightly controlling player progress. I think with the state of Maplestory 2 proves they have still a lot to learn about how they can interpret and deliver on the audience that they're trying to cater for (different dev team working on MS2 than MS notwithstanding).

When was the last time you actually invited that guy who popped into your channel to your party?
How about party requests? They usually do get declined, but I've had the chance to grind with a few people and it's always fun.
Even if you don't party, just yesterday I had someone enter my map and take the other half while we had a silent agreement going on.
Party play being slower or faster is a non-issue. If you're actually concerned about party play, the speed at which you progress should be second to that.

Biased personal experience. I'm not sure why you're trying to even downplay on receiving loot/exp when it's one of the core tenets of Maplestory, due to grinding. No one wants to feel like their wasting their time when Maple has so many ways to, and for better results. That, in itself, is where certain players find enjoyment. Even if the community adopts a more proactive attitude on party-play, sacrificing material gain for that party enjoyment, what do those players have to look forward to? How does Maplestory actually cater to those who want to party? Using your example, is it still fun to share this map with someone? Sure. Wouldn't it be better if the map was designed for more than one person, and necessitated conscious party-player interactions and impact? Surely, that would be even better. But there is no hook, no incentive, nothing. You are literally doing the same thing as if you were doing things solo plus x number of players in the same map as you are, except less map space and gains.

I mean, if "being slower or faster is a non-issue" then we'd have little further need to look at than at the state of Kannas.

Given how many people are vocal about party play being dead though, I don't think this is the majority of players.

Yea, I wonder how vocal the massive amount of players that stopped playing Maplestory over the years are.

I'm sure Nexon knows, but all we want is for Maplestory to feel like an MMORPG again. Sense of adventure, secrets, fighting as a group, being tested. What that really comes done to is a more focused balance towards these things, a direction that success has been seen with Dragon's Quest, Final Fantasy, Persona, etc.

I think it similar to what I said before when a company is not fixing a game can be many factors. First notably is that the player base does not care, not only do they not care they take any poop the company gives them. Fix the game they're ok, give them complete trash their ok. This is the topic of having standards that I mention before we as a community need a universal standard that even people who don't agree on everything can agree on that universal thing. Also, the problem or one of the main factors the game is failing and the community is as angry and hate mongering and negative as it is, is mostly because of party playing. Party playing in most to all games has one universal goal, that goal is to connect people and build communities. Back when you used to train for you to get the best out of it you had to wait and join parties. Once joining those parties you sometimes converse or socialize, just looking at it from a sociological view you can see how conditioning people to socialize or party can help build game communities. with having this platform pre-big bang and before the game was very social and very active cause people were invested in that social activity and invested in the people they met and were eager to see them again. The problem with maple nowadays is that instead of conditioning players to communicate and play with others it's doing the complete opposite. It's training unsocial, unemotional, very awkward, people hating robots who only come on to reach a high ranking, maybe do a stream to people they know they can give 2 rats butts about and overall making a bad player base. With the boss being release name ursus it has brought back that feeling of the community again. In khroa we hosted 100's maybe even 100 ursus raids and had people who didn't know each other connect. It brought such positive energy and brought people who wouldn't connect by regular means together. I hosted many of these raids and it became somewhat of a tradition to us. That's what made and did make maple great. These type of bosses is what is making MapleStory 2 great which you have many bosses which you can get 18 or more people fighting and gather. This is why Nexon is failing today and why you see a lot of people are so hateful today, cause their condition to not interact and like people. Nexon is making moves, as they are cause lets, face it a lot of the people in the game are cheaters making settings for it to happen makes more money. That's what I think as that is what I see. With the botting, people making duplications of items and it not solving its encouraging bad behavior. There are only one best solution in-game moderators we had them before and have them during Nexon in-game events we need more of that. I think for ghiblee if she can get herself and team to have a presence in server and work with the real gm team to do events in the game and not discord I think it will make a difference. In ms2 Cuddles role switch from being CM on both game and social media to just social media, I think we can do something similar to have an in-game community manager or leader in each server. If that is hard to do cause we have a lot of servers just combine all of them and problem solve. So yeah I am going in but yea I think this is a crust of what I feel is needed to fix our community

I disagree with the first point, I have seen a lot more comments about things being bad than things being ok, so in my experience, the player base cares quite a lot.

I agree with the second point though, the active discouragement of party play and lack of party activities with a good return on investment probably is making people less social in the game, which is kinda antithetical to MMOs.

Third point is a hard agree. Big bosses are neat.

However, please try to format your stuff better? I appreciate your enthusiasm, but line breaks and full stops are characters for a reason.

Yoda

I love Maplestory the way it is.
Big Bang was the best thing ever, and I will keep saying this things, because saddly, only 1% (or less) of people say good things about things in life.

Unfortunately, with social networks and accesibility in general, many people feel like they HAVE TO interact, and the way they do it is to criticise.

Actually, in real life is exactly the same, nobody likes anything anymore, everybody is an expert in everything, and everybody gives their opinion about everything.

And that's allright, everybody can have their freedom to express their own ideas, we are not in the middle ages where you would get tortured and killed for anything slightly different in your speech or attitudes.

That being said, and focusing in Maplestory, it doesn't mean that they have to hear and act in every idea or claim that comes from the users, life doesn't work that way, and it shouldn't, the game needs to have a strategy, stability, a purpose, a greater design, otherwise it'll be chaos.

Think about starting with some "changes" in a cake recipe, unless you know all the possible outcomes from the interaction with all the different ingredients you may end up with something disgusting.

WONDERGUY

What I envy the most about Disney is that they do not force money out of kids ... (consumers) gladly pay Disney. Nexon has a long way to go. Some people hate Nexon to death,” Kim Jung-ju was quoted as saying in an anecdote in Nexon’s foundation story, “Play,” published in 2015. He was referring to the common practice of effectively requiring players to make in-game purchases.

lol seem it will get better soon

waiting outside for change its hard but we will get back in