«12»Give us FULL patch notes for V, please

Catooolooo

MakazeKiba said:

However, they have made it clear in their ToS that we cannot data-mine for details regarding content... I actually question the legality of -Removed- due to this.

I thought it was well known at this point that -Removed- was not regarded as legitimate or legal by nexon, and Nexon tells people not to use that site or other FM sites like it, even though I know people still use it even when we have free owls to search the FM now.

MakazeKiba

Catooolooo said:

I thought it was well known at this point that -Removed- was not regarded as legitimate or legal by nexon, and Nexon tells people not to use that site or other FM sites like it, even though I know people still use it even when we have free owls to search the FM now.

Surprised it didn't get the Good ol' C&D... Oh wait, that's Hasbro.

AKradian

MakazeKiba said:

- snip -

You're overthinking it.
You're assuming they're doing this on purpose.

I believe it's happening as part of Nexon's general incompetence. The people writing the notes aren't given the details from the devs. "Devs" who might not know the details, themselves. (Recall the Reboot Master-Class event, when we got contradictory information from various GMs and the CM, and it turned out none of them was right?) GMS' "devs" auto-merge changes from KMS and much of the time they neither know nor care what the code does.

Either that or they're not given enough time to write the notes properly. Everyone at Nexon is overworked, so it's not surprising that a lot of stuff gets sloppily done.

Reminds me of an ancient joke:

Q: How many hardware engineers does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: None. We'll workaround it in software.

Q: How many software engineers does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: None. We'll document the issue.

Q: How many tech writers does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: None. The users will realize it's dark by themselves.

gamechanger

AKradian said:

MakazeKiba said:

- snip -

You're overthinking it.
You're assuming they're doing this on purpose.

I believe it's happening as part of Nexon's general incompetence. The people writing the notes aren't given the details from the devs. "Devs" who might not know the details, themselves. (Recall the Reboot Master-Class event, when we got contradictory information from various GMs and the CM, and it turned out none of them was right?) GMS' "devs" auto-merge changes from KMS and much of the time they neither know nor care what the code does.

Either that or they're not given enough time to write the notes properly. Everyone at Nexon is overworked, so it's not surprising that a lot of stuff gets sloppily done.

Reminds me of an ancient joke:

Q: How many hardware engineers does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: None. We'll workaround it in software.

Q: How many software engineers does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: None. We'll document the issue.

Q: How many tech writers does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: None. The users will realize it's dark by themselves.

I think this is pretty spot on, which is also why I made the thread 2 entire weeks ago to give them time to do a good job at writing up all of the changes.

Ivangold

@AKradian
If they are generaly overworked, then why don't they try to get more people, hire more so they can do it better and complete(like patch notes)?

AkihikoT_

Ivangold said:

@AKradian
If they are generaly overworked, then why don't they try to get more people, hire more so they can do it better and complete(like patch notes)?

They might not have the money to hire more people/there might be some people salary based having to work unpaid overtime.

gamechanger

Ivangold said:

@AKradian
If they are generaly overworked, then why don't they try to get more people, hire more so they can do it better and complete(like patch notes)?

This isn't a question we can answer, only one that we can guess at. And knowing AKradian, any answer he gives to this question in particular is likely to be deleted by the mods for reasons (FUD basically).

Still though I find it hard to believe that everyone there is so overworked that they haven't been able to write up a good set of notes despite the 6 months that we, the players have known about this update (and the devs/higher ups at Nexon have surely known about it for even longer).

The Blue Corsair

MakazeKiba said:

Perhaps, at this point, Nexon is relying on the players to figure it out ourselves. In it's own dementedly logical way, the quest for such knowledge is content in and of itself.

However, they have made it clear in their ToS that we cannot data-mine for details regarding content... I actually question the legality of -Removed- due to this.

Half the fun is the exploration and discovering things. Patch notes just help to know where to expect something to happen or to not let a change whether minor or major negatively effect a player's experience by not being aware.

In regard to data-mining, if was made allowed (to a degree) quite a few years ago when there was the issue of MapleSimulator vs. Nexon Korea, where the service was brought down due to a cease & desist from NK, however when Nexon America fought to have it reversed, they also fought to protect the right for other services to also be able to use the information from the game (such as icons, item/skill information, and so forth) without any legal conflicts, as long as the service doesn't directly monetize their site or claim the resources are their own. With at least that aforementioned topic, that's why sites like BasilMarket, Southperry, -self removed due to undisclosed rules-, and even blogs like Orange Mushroom have been allowed to exist for countless years.

I do agree though that there should be a more clear ToS so that it does protect everyone more.

Neospector

MakazeKiba said:

However, they have made it clear in their ToS that we cannot data-mine for details regarding content... I actually question the legality of -Removed- due to this.

Hi, that website uses bots to gather price information. As such it is not allowed on the forums.

The Blue Corsair

@Neospector

Well, time to wait for the update to conclude and brush up on the update notes.

gamechanger

Oh Hi @Neospector - You missed a mention of that site in the comment right above yours in this same thread, made by The Blue Corsair.

Just trying to be helpful

The Blue Corsair

gamechanger said:

Oh Hi @Neospector - You missed a mention of that site in the comment right above yours in this same thread, made by The Blue Corsair.

Just trying to be helpful

I noticed that as well. o.O

Neospector

gamechanger said:

Oh Hi @Neospector - You missed a mention of that site in the comment right above yours in this same thread, made by The Blue Corsair.

Just trying to be helpful

Such is life. Wake me when maintenance is over.

The Blue Corsair

Neospector said:

gamechanger said:

Oh Hi @Neospector - You missed a mention of that site in the comment right above yours in this same thread, made by The Blue Corsair.

Just trying to be helpful

Such is life. Wake me when maintenance is over.

Wakey wakey, eggs and Black Magey.