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Iframes for Nightlord

darikdarik
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edited December 2019 in Suggestions, Feedback, and Requests
Nl is q very played class but ehen it comes to bossing it has a huge disavantage compared to its partner night walker, wich are the iframes, while nw has 1 iframe with relatively low cd, night lord has none, making it extremelly easy to die at certain moments when bossing like for example with lucid bombs, lotus balls and some other 1 shots.
My suggestion is to add an iframe on a skill that nl has to improve its survivavility in end game bosses.

Comments

  • YinYangXYinYangX
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    edited January 2020
    darik wrote: »
    Nl is q very played class but ehen it comes to bossing it has a huge disavantage compared to its partner night walker, wich are the iframes, while nw has 1 iframe with relatively low cd, night lord has none, making it extremelly easy to die at certain moments when bossing like for example with lucid bombs, lotus balls and some other 1 shots.
    My suggestion is to add an iframe on a skill that nl has to improve its survivavility in end game bosses.

    Being a NW one trick, I'd say this is only fair if you take away Showdown's bonus exp and drop %. Not saying iframe and Showdown are the only difference, but just one of the things NL > NW.
  • darikdarik
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    edited January 2020
    Err showdown only gives 5% more exp and drop which is minimal , y would u want to take that from us? O.o like u can easily get that from legion and a piece of drop gear o.o
  • FuhreakFuhreak
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    edited January 2020
    darik wrote: »
    Err showdown only gives 5% more exp and drop which is minimal , y would u want to take that from us? O.o like u can easily get that from legion and a piece of drop gear o.o

    Technically it's 10% with the hyper. Which still isn't that much, but it IS an extra source. Not sure why that should/would affect the need for iframes, though.
    No character should be locked out of bossing simply because they have an EXP boost. If this was the case, Bishop requires a nerf.
    darik
  • YinYangXYinYangX
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    edited January 2020
    The op's original logic was the "since NW has iframe, NL should have iframe". Hence I was following that logic and saying, "since NW doesn't have small exp+drop boost, NL shouldn't have small exp+drop boost". Yes, I'm being simple-minded and selfish.
    Also, not saying it's an iframe, but NL's have Shadow Walker which lets them avoid some attacks (not saying all, but still a handful)


    @darik
    If it's that easy to get, then it wouldn't be such a big deal to lose it according to you. >.>

    @Fuhreak
    If the op's logic was every other job has an iframe, then yes, you're statement of saying "No character should be locked out of bossing simply because they have an EXP boost. If this was the case, Bishop requires a nerf." would make sense, but that isn't the case. Haven't played a bishop, so I don't know if they have iframes, but I'm going off the assumption they don't (I know that Heaven's Door is a revive, not an iframe), then my original logic of a job having either only iframe or exp/drop boost but not both still holds (yes, I'm sure there's jobs that have both, but I'm just saying Bishop because that's the specific job you pointed out), while the op's wish to have both does not.
  • FuhreakFuhreak
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    edited January 2020
    YinYangX wrote: »
    If the op's logic was every other job has an iframe, then yes, you're statement of saying "No character should be locked out of bossing simply because they have an EXP boost. If this was the case, Bishop requires a nerf." would make sense, but that isn't the case. Haven't played a bishop, so I don't know if they have iframes, but I'm going off the assumption they don't (I know that Heaven's Door is a revive, not an iframe), then my original logic of a job having either only iframe or exp/drop boost but not both still holds (yes, I'm sure there's jobs that have both, but I'm just saying Bishop because that's the specific job you pointed out), while the op's wish to have both does not.

    Bishop does have iframes, Ethereal Form it's not an iframe unique to it, but it is there.
    yes, I'm sure there's jobs that have both
    There's beast tamer (lol) that has both an EXP/Drop Boost (Arby form) and a massive 30 second iframe skill.

    I haven't really played either class extensively, so I can't speak for how well the two survive or DPS compared to each other.
    A class doesn't NEED iframes to survive, playing a class that has the tools to survive without them well (Like NL I guess) is possible.
    But sometimes BS can happen, which is where a long CD short duration iframe can come in handy, which is why I assume that mages get it. (Ethereal form)
    Having a "get out of jail free card" is required for some of the BS the game throws at you. I would say that ALL CLASSES need at least one iframe skill.

    If there was a common iframe skill in 5th job (similar to how there's a common bind) it would fix this problem.
    Of course they have to be careful with something like that because then you're just giving out more iframes to iframe heavy classes.
    YinYangX
  • YinYangXYinYangX
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    edited January 2020
    Fuhreak wrote: »
    Bishop does have iframes, Ethereal Form it's not an iframe unique to it, but it is there.
    There's beast tamer (lol) that has both an EXP/Drop Boost (Arby form) and a massive 30 second iframe skill.

    I haven't really played either class extensively, so I can't speak for how well the two survive or DPS compared to each other.
    A class doesn't NEED iframes to survive, playing a class that has the tools to survive without them well (Like NL I guess) is possible.
    But sometimes BS can happen, which is where a long CD short duration iframe can come in handy, which is why I assume that mages get it. (Ethereal form)
    Having a "get out of jail free card" is required for some of the BS the game throws at you. I would say that ALL CLASSES need at least one iframe skill.

    If there was a common iframe skill in 5th job (similar to how there's a common bind) it would fix this problem.
    Of course they have to be careful with something like that because then you're just giving out more iframes to iframe heavy classes.

    Yes, but again, that changes the argument to "everyone class to should have at least one iframe" (which I don't disagree with the reasoning/logic) instead of "NL should have an iframe since NW has iframe" (which I do disagree with the reasoning/logic).
    Yes, I'm being petty, but the reason so is because the op wants to buff his job with the strengths of another similar job without any of the cons (in comparison) of the same job.
  • darikdarik
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    edited January 2020
    Fuhreak wrote: »
    darik wrote: »
    Err showdown only gives 5% more exp and drop which is minimal , y would u want to take that from us? O.o like u can easily get that from legion and a piece of drop gear o.o

    Technically it's 10% with the hyper. Which still isn't that much, but it IS an extra source. Not sure why that should/would affect the need for iframes, though.
    No character should be locked out of bossing simply because they have an EXP boost. If this was the case, Bishop requires a nerf.

    By that then we should remove thay buff from dice too from pirates since they got iframes, and with dice they get 20% exp
  • darikdarik
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    edited January 2020
    YinYangX wrote: »
    The op's original logic was the "since NW has iframe, NL should have iframe". Hence I was following that logic and saying, "since NW doesn't have small exp+drop boost, NL shouldn't have small exp+drop boost". Yes, I'm being simple-minded and selfish.
    Also, not saying it's an iframe, but NL's have Shadow Walker which lets them avoid some attacks (not saying all, but still a handful)


    @darik
    If it's that easy to get, then it wouldn't be such a big deal to lose it according to you. >.>

    @Fuhreak
    If the op's logic was every other job has an iframe, then yes, you're statement of saying "No character should be locked out of bossing simply because they have an EXP boost. If this was the case, Bishop requires a nerf." would make sense, but that isn't the case. Haven't played a bishop, so I don't know if they have iframes, but I'm going off the assumption they don't (I know that Heaven's Door is a revive, not an iframe), then my original logic of a job having either only iframe or exp/drop boost but not both still holds (yes, I'm sure there's jobs that have both, but I'm just saying Bishop because that's the specific job you pointed out), while the op's wish to have both does not.
    YinYangX wrote: »
    The op's original logic was the "since NW has iframe, NL should have iframe". Hence I was following that logic and saying, "since NW doesn't have small exp+drop boost, NL shouldn't have small exp+drop boost". Yes, I'm being simple-minded and selfish.
    Also, not saying it's an iframe, but NL's have Shadow Walker which lets them avoid some attacks (not saying all, but still a handful)


    @darik
    If it's that easy to get, then it wouldn't be such a big deal to lose it according to you. >.>

    @Fuhreak
    If the op's logic was every other job has an iframe, then yes, you're statement of saying "No character should be locked out of bossing simply because they have an EXP boost. If this was the case, Bishop requires a nerf." would make sense, but that isn't the case. Haven't played a bishop, so I don't know if they have iframes, but I'm going off the assumption they don't (I know that Heaven's Door is a revive, not an iframe), then my original logic of a job having either only iframe or exp/drop boost but not both still holds (yes, I'm sure there's jobs that have both, but I'm just saying Bishop because that's the specific job you pointed out), while the op's wish to have both does not.

    These days iframes are mandatpry for end game bosses, all new classes have them and are strong so ur point is invalid, exp boost isnt mandatory in bosses , iframes are, so ur point is quite invalid
  • darikdarik
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    edited January 2020
    YinYangX wrote: »
    Fuhreak wrote: »
    Bishop does have iframes, Ethereal Form it's not an iframe unique to it, but it is there.
    There's beast tamer (lol) that has both an EXP/Drop Boost (Arby form) and a massive 30 second iframe skill.

    I haven't really played either class extensively, so I can't speak for how well the two survive or DPS compared to each other.
    A class doesn't NEED iframes to survive, playing a class that has the tools to survive without them well (Like NL I guess) is possible.
    But sometimes BS can happen, which is where a long CD short duration iframe can come in handy, which is why I assume that mages get it. (Ethereal form)
    Having a "get out of jail free card" is required for some of the BS the game throws at you. I would say that ALL CLASSES need at least one iframe skill.

    If there was a common iframe skill in 5th job (similar to how there's a common bind) it would fix this problem.
    Of course they have to be careful with something like that because then you're just giving out more iframes to iframe heavy classes.

    Yes, but again, that changes the argument to "everyone class to should have at least one iframe" (which I don't disagree with the reasoning/logic) instead of "NL should have an iframe since NW has iframe" (which I do disagree with the reasoning/logic).
    Yes, I'm being petty, but the reason so is because the op wants to buff his job with the strengths of another similar job without any of the cons (in comparison) of the same job.

    Excuse me? Nw is way stronguer than NL right now so idk y are u complaining rn, im not complaining about nw i juat want to have an iframe and since other similar jobs have them, and are extremwlly strong, having an iframe too wont damage anyone, nw will stilll be strong as hell qnd nl will have more survivavility, everyone wins,plus nw is gwtting a huge buff soon while nl is getting nothing so yeah, again, ur point is invalid.
  • SorrowSorrow
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    edited January 2020
    I disagree that every class should have an i-frame. Each class has a unique set of tools and TMS already proved i-frame is NOT mandatory by soloing Black Mage without i-frames. Your point is invalid.
  • darikdarik
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    edited January 2020
    Sorrow wrote: »
    I disagree that every class should have an i-frame. Each class has a unique set of tools and TMS already proved i-frame is NOT mandatory by soloing Black Mage without i-frames. Your point is invalid.

    Ofc is not mandatory, they all have BoDs and op gear that makes them not need an iframe since they can, for the most part, rush through the boss.
    Or are u gping to tell me that having lucid earrings that allows to fully bind black mage first phase and dont even dia a single time cuz of tjat isnt op?
    TMS isnt the bestvserver to be compared tbh.
  • SorrowSorrow
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    edited January 2020
    Then maybe you should suggest that Thieves get Ethereal Form Node and Mages get Last Resort instead if you think it's that unfair. I would have no problem trading a 2 sec i-frame for a 40% final damage buff.
  • FuhreakFuhreak
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    edited January 2020
    Sorrow wrote: »
    I disagree that every class should have an i-frame. Each class has a unique set of tools and TMS already proved i-frame is NOT mandatory by soloing Black Mage without i-frames. Your point is invalid.

    TMS is in no way a good example of anything balance related. I would say your point is also invalid.
    darik
  • SorrowSorrow
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    edited January 2020
    Here's a GMS Night Lord doing Black Mage
    It's not mandatory. Is this valid enough for you?

    Let me ask you something though: Would you be willing to trade Last Resort for Ethereal Form? 2sec i-frame for 40% final damage? Because you're complaining about i-frames but you do 40% more final damage.

    I'd be more than happy to help you make this happen. Let's ask Nexon for this trade. :-)
  • darikdarik
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    edited January 2020
    Y trade when we can both have an iframe the nl and last resort too the mages.
  • darikdarik
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    edited January 2020
    Sorrow wrote: »
    Here's a GMS Night Lord doing Black Mage
    It's not mandatory. Is this valid enough for you?

    Let me ask you something though: Would you be willing to trade Last Resort for Ethereal Form? 2sec i-frame for 40% final damage? Because you're complaining about i-frames but you do 40% more final damage.

    I'd be more than happy to help you make this happen. Let's ask Nexon for this trade. :-)

    Plus that video shows nothing, is like saying phantom isnt weaker rhan other classes just because he participates in hard bossing runs o.o , juat because someone cna do it without iframes the rest of us can
  • FuhreakFuhreak
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    edited January 2020
    darik wrote: »
    Sorrow wrote: »
    Here's a GMS Night Lord doing Black Mage
    It's not mandatory. Is this valid enough for you?

    Let me ask you something though: Would you be willing to trade Last Resort for Ethereal Form? 2sec i-frame for 40% final damage? Because you're complaining about i-frames but you do 40% more final damage.

    I'd be more than happy to help you make this happen. Let's ask Nexon for this trade. :-)

    Plus that video shows nothing, is like saying phantom isnt weaker rhan other classes just because he participates in hard bossing runs o.o , juat because someone cna do it without iframes the rest of us can

    The video is at least a better argument than "TMS can do it, so can you." I actually do agree that iframe skills aren't mandatory on all classes 90%> of the time.
    That said, the game can still throw BS at you, that without iframes, you WILL die. That's the power of random attack patterns. For that reason, I would say that every class should get an iframe of some sort. Regardless of CD/Method/Whatever.
    I usually don't have to use ethereal form to survive, but there are plenty of runs where failure would have happened if not for the skill.

    I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a small iframe skill that could be used every once in awhile on a class that doesn't have a method of using them.