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The Familiar Revamp and Reboot

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  • AKradianAKradian
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    edited April 2020
    Beef wrote: »
    Had to Ctrl+F to find anyone saying stuff about being free and it's only you. It's not about X or Y being free, its about having access to them.

    "For meso" means "for free".
  • HHG1HHG1
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    edited April 2020
    It'll probably come to Reboot in a meso/RP form in the near future. They probably just hadn't thought that far yet.
    This familiar update seems really rushed in general. Have you seen the UI? It looks awful. This whole thing seems more like a first draft than a polished revamp.
    Not sure what they're in such a hurry for or when they started working on it.
  • AKradianAKradian
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    edited April 2020
    HHG1 wrote: »
    It'll probably come to Reboot in a meso/RP form in the near future. They probably just hadn't thought that far yet.
    This familiar update seems really rushed in general. Have you seen the UI? It looks awful. This whole thing seems more like a first draft than a polished revamp.
    Not sure what they're in such a hurry for or when they started working on it.

    The web post was actually updated with new UI screenshots that are much cleaner.
  • BeefBeef
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    Member
    edited April 2020
    AKradian wrote: »
    Beef wrote: »
    Had to Ctrl+F to find anyone saying stuff about being free and it's only you. It's not about X or Y being free, its about having access to them.

    "For meso" means "for free".

    So Meso Market means free?
    WONDERGUYIaraSnizzeJellylemon
  • HHG1HHG1
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    edited April 2020
    AKradian wrote: »
    HHG1 wrote: »
    It'll probably come to Reboot in a meso/RP form in the near future. They probably just hadn't thought that far yet.
    This familiar update seems really rushed in general. Have you seen the UI? It looks awful. This whole thing seems more like a first draft than a polished revamp.
    Not sure what they're in such a hurry for or when they started working on it.

    The web post was actually updated with new UI screenshots that are much cleaner.

    Hopefully they keep updating it until it doesn't look like a first draft then.
    Because this ain't it, chief.
    mTrpcM2.png

    Edit: Current version with clearer lines.
    vPqofV5.png
  • AudioFAudioF
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    Member, Private Tester
    edited April 2020
    AKradian wrote: »
    Beef wrote: »
    Had to Ctrl+F to find anyone saying stuff about being free and it's only you. It's not about X or Y being free, its about having access to them.

    "For meso" means "for free".

    You're showing ignorance towards all of those that put hours upon hours to get good rates. You dont get handed out 1b rates per hour on fresh account only cos you log to Reboot. New player needs probably 50 to 60...70 or who knows how many hours (RNG plays massive role) to establish account strong enough to freely farm in Arcana cos you need Gear, links, legion which is 10x more important in Reboot if you want to kill anything outside of your level range. There's no shortcuts. You must put insane effort to begin with. Not taking away anything from Regs and their progression but Im not discussing that now. Nor will I. We log to diff worlds for a reason. I dont have to compare them to grow my ego.

    Following your logic... Actually id rather freaking not.

    Tell it to any new player that just cause nexon cannot balance Reboot income and prices we wont get full features and cos a there's bunch of salty people associating every single person with stupid meso gains.

    "VFM" means "disconnected just like devs"
    BeefWONDERGUYJellylemon
  • ArgentArgent
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    edited April 2020
    The whole thing looks like it was designed in under a week by an indignant employee who lost a bet.

    If normal server players are unhappy with the new familiar system, they are free like everyone else to voice their concerns. Frankly, if I were one I'd be ticked off that Nexon has decided to take a simple feature like the codex/familiars and turn it into an RNG/Grindfest/Paywalled monstrosity like so many other "features" that plague the game theses days. If the familiar system goes live the way Nexon currently has planned it is going to suck for everyone regardless of server (but it will likely be worse in Reboot).

    If as the video said, one goal of the revamp was to put less emphasis on specific monsters, I think they will have failed. Like others have mentioned, players are going to gravitate to familiars that they can easily grind because familiars from higher-level areas just won't worth grinding cards for if you can't get a decent potential.
    WONDERGUYHHG1ShadowParadoxJellylemonMisterKrekel
  • ResetReset
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    edited April 2020
    AKradian wrote: »
    Reboot demanding to get whatever normal world whales have to pay for, but for free, didn't work for the Re:Zero medal, nor for Frenzy Totem or anything else that is hard-locked behind cash in normal worlds. In my opinion, It will likely not work for Familiar items either, unless Nexon makes them not-that-premium for reg too.

    This isn't something as extreme as asking for frenzy totem in Reboot. They're familiars, a feature we've already had for a long time and wasn't P2W in the start, and now Nexon decides the new system should be P2W, and now we're being handed a strict version of the current system just because they somehow can't add accessibility of these items to Reboot.

    The difference is we're the only Reboot server who is getting locked from the red familiar cards, breakthrough cards and slots. Even TMS and JMS Reboot have access to these same things. Yet GMS Reboot is somehow different and that means we aren't allowed to have access to them at all?

    I'd honestly like to see their explanation as to why they aren't able to do this.
    BeefWONDERGUYShadowParadoxIara
  • MrCoolCutMrCoolCut
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    edited April 2020
    Hello! I'm AxeChris, a Rebooter. For the last few years, I've been pushing for an updated familiar system, mainly aiming towards a translated JMS system, mainly because of all the features they've added to it from 2011 to 2015. When Anna announced that we in GMS would be receiving a revamp, I was ecstatic. So much that I had dedicated much of my time to writing down explanations of both JMS and TMS's systems on a discord to help players better understand the major jump to the new system.
    P2y4XMJ.png
    Jbd0fdo.png

    Flash forward to yesterday's video/guide being released. It quickly dawned on me as well as my other familiar-loving compatriots that this would not be either JMS or TMS's system merely translated, but a completely new system altogether. A fusion of both systems, even. Being able to summon three at once and utilize potentials along with multiple badges would be absolutely fantastic for Reboot! As I read aloud the post, my optimism slowly started to crumble.

    "Non-Reboot worlds only: The [Red Familiar Card], purchased from the Cash Shop, also has a small chance to immediately Rank-Up the chosen Familiar while resetting its Potentials". It had dawned on me that Reboot would not be obtaining the Red Familiar Card, along with the opportunity to buy [Familiar Slot Expansion Coupons] or [Familiar Breakthrough Cards]. My mind started racing. With those restrictions, Reboot's experience with this new system will be but a mere fraction of what normal servers would get. New players would only be limited to 100 slots overall, capped at level 5, and would be forced to start over from scratch if the familiar they worked so tirelessly on turned out to have a bad potential when they finally get it to Unique.

    I fear that with these restrictions, the entire concept of collecting and utilizing familiars will immediately fall flat on it's face and the meta will be to merely farm snail familiars for the ease of access and ability to easily start over from scratch if their unique potential is, essentially, crap. Familiar hunting would also be severely limited due to the fact that Reboot can't buy expansion slots either. If we're expecting to possibly have a maximum of 2,000 familiars, how could we cope with just 100 slots on average? I'm thankful that I'll have 20 slots to go with the 345 I have, but I feel this is terribly unfair to everyone else.

    I would like to request that [Red Familiar Cards] be sold in either the Cash Shop for meso, much like Red and Black cubes, or in the Roro shop, along with [Familiar Slot Expansion Coupons] and [Familiar Breakthrough Cards]. Doing so will allow reboot to be able to work on hunting new familiars, level them up, and ensure they have options for bossing, healing, IED, whatever the situation calls for. I'd like to see maplers show off their "Familiar Teams", each providing a role, as well as flexing whatever they got from hunting or booster packs. Likewise, with expansion slots, players could choose if they want to go deeper into the familiar system at their own pace, rather than just limiting themselves to only 100.

    Breakthrough Cards would also be a fine addition to Reboot. Allowing the level cap to reach 7 on our most treasured familiars would help us have longer farming sessions with them, have easier boss runs (if their scaled attacks are truly as strong as they claim to be), and again, to be able to show the world that yes, this player put forth the love and effort to get their familiar to a Level 7 Unique or Legendary rank. Something to aspire other players to work towards if they know the potential they have would help them immensely on their own goals.

    As of right now, there's a community of familiar hunters out there who feel the same way about these restrictions and I hope that they'll see this post and respond with their own concerns - It's a larger community than you'd think; There are currently 70 members in the Familiar discord, with more hunters joining the fun every day. We feel that this new revamp is a fantastic way to get people energized about familiars, but with the current restrictions in Reboot, it simply won't be as great. Adding the Red Card, Slot Expansions, and Breakthough Cards to Reboot would change the way things work way more positively. Complaints aside, I'm excited to see GMS receiving a new system, but I would be much more excited about using said new system if some or all of these changes were made for Reboot players.

    Thank you.

    It looks like a lot of time and research was put into this, AxeChris.

    Familiars have been a big part of my personal game play experience on reboot, and I really like where you are coming from and the points that you have brought up. Looking forward to seeing how this unravels.
    WONDERGUYJellylemon
  • WONDERGUYWONDERGUY
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    edited April 2020
    its just so ironic how non-reboot become/known as paid world and it gets away with it as its fine just move to reboot
    like all the accomplishments and collectors getting trashed away if you are not big spender

    in other hand there is :
    wE ArE HeRe pAyInG AnD YoU WaNt tO GeT It iN ReBoOt fOr mEsO nOt fAiR
    and
    jUsT UsE MeSo mArKeT YoU DoNt hAvE To bUy nX aNd iGnOrE MaRvEl, "rAtEs ArE niCe" tHaNk yOu bOtS

    but am not going to complain anymore after mapletour ignorance its enough its time to watch from side to see how far it can go and laugh
    early gratz on 1st legendary rank hope you get the tier/lines in under 500$ spend :)
  • PirateIzzyPirateIzzy
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    edited April 2020
    On a separate note in regards to the new Familiar System, I would love it if the drop rate tables could be included. They were a great resource to have when editing the wiki, and not having them is demotivating when it comes to adding drops for monsters.
    BobbyWeaveShadowParadoxJellylemon
  • MalvonMalvon
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    edited April 2020
    I just don't see why the upgrade system is not just a low number of reward points on both server types for the special upgrade cards like 400 reward points or something like that and allow something like 5 or 8 cards per month for reward points and if you wanted to you could spend nx to get more cards if you wanted to, that way both servers get a win instead of a low ball cash grab.





    WONDERGUY
  • GasteroGastero
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    edited April 2020
    The patch hasn’t even rolled out yet and so many important details are still unknown and yet people are already complaining about how crippled reboot is compared to reg server. We don’t know what the potentials look like, how big the differences are between level 5 and level 7 monsters in practice, how much familiar slot expansion coupons and red familiar cards cost in reg servers or what tier up rates are from unique to leg. If the max familiar level was 5 and max tier was unique, then no one from reboot would’ve complained about it, but only because higher tier/level exist in reg server (behind an unspecified paywall), players from reboot want it too somewhere in an NPC shop. Looking at bigger picture, like what AKradian was saying, reg server has more features compared to reboot server, but many things are a lot more difficult to obtain without spending money. This update fits in that picture.
  • MageOfBattlesMageOfBattles
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    edited April 2020
    Gastero wrote: »
    The patch hasn’t even rolled out yet and so many important details are still unknown and yet people are already complaining about how crippled reboot is compared to reg server. We don’t know what the potentials look like, how big the differences are between level 5 and level 7 monsters in practice, how much familiar slot expansion coupons and red familiar cards cost in reg servers or what tier up rates are from unique to leg. If the max familiar level was 5 and max tier was unique, then no one from reboot would’ve complained about it, but only because higher tier/level exist in reg server (behind an unspecified paywall), players from reboot want it too somewhere in an NPC shop. Looking at bigger picture, like what AKradian was saying, reg server has more features compared to reboot server, but many things are a lot more difficult to obtain without spending money. This update fits in that picture.

    They're literally locked out of a potential tier. They cannot reroll potentials. They cannot expand the slots of the codex. They cannot hit the max level on their familiars.

    If that's not enough reason to complain, then I'm not sure what to tell you. They're being locked out of content that they should, by all means have. Jms did not have this issue, and there's not much reason why Gms should be screwing Reboot so hard on this. I don't even play Reboot but it's clear as day as to why this is an issue.

    As the system is currently, if they get a familiar to unique, but the pot is bad, they actually have to start from scratch with a new familiar. Again, I really hope you can see what's wrong with that.

    If you have an actual reason as to why Reboot should receive such reduced systems, I'd be glad to hear it. Or if you'd like to clue the rest of us in on what these, "So many important details that are still unknown" are, that'd be great.
    Europa
  • NikiCDawgNikiCDawg
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    edited April 2020
    I hope that we can have some way to access this chunk of the content. Its interesting to see what Nexon does and does not lock out of reboot, and this part is quite interesting. I'm not quite ready for the Jr Boogie uprising, but if that is the only way to even get good lines... In the announcement, it felt like they wanted us to be able to use our favorite familiar, no matter what it was. I was excited to hunt down some cute mobs to have as extra pets (i was devising the best way to find some Muru familiars... ive always wished i could have them as a pet since i was young and i thought i was finally able to). On top of that, the idea of getting bonuses for the more you filled up you pokedex monster collection looked really cool, and was excited to play around with it instead of "leafre set and youre done", but this 100 limit makes that a little more difficult, and even assuming that deleted familiars count towards it it will still be a hassle to delete monsters just to fill up the pages. Its sort of outrageous that we dont have a way to expand it -- we have meso equivalent for all of our inventories, including storage and character. Where is the stretch of letting us expand this too? Everything we already have on Reboot points towards us logically having access to this stuff-- i dont understand the point of not giving us ANY alternative, even if its a crappy one. The things they have locked out before really did seem to be extra stuff-- some OP equips, some large qol stuff-- that would have been nice but didnt seem game changing (well, didnt seem to make Reboot be missing something major). The inability to do something as simple as reroll lines, however, is quite a large stretch in logic from no BoD or no Frenzy. Imagine if we had to get our potentials only from monster drops. Hours farming, hoping for that that one piece of gear has some good lines, maybe even EPIC if we are lucky. Thats not fair to Reboot at all -- and dont try to tell me that "meister and master cubes" are a thing because there is no familiar equivalent. If familiars are destined to be this way, then we will adapt-- we will figure it out-- like we always have. We will have every Jr Boogie map filled with 240+ players trying to get good familiar lines. However, i do hope that nexon will take into consideration to let us have some alternative to this predicament.
    WONDERGUYJellylemon
  • EuropaEuropa
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    edited April 2020
    I really wish Nexon would stop treating reboot players as a 2nd tier player base
    WONDERGUY
  • GasteroGastero
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    edited April 2020
    Like I said, people here only complain about this because these things exist in reg server and therefore they feel entitled to it in a server that is designed to be a free-to-play cutdown version of reg server. The things you mentioned are all features locked behind a paywall that we do not know any specifics of, which could very well turn out to be a whale feature that only a fraction of reg server players make use of. And if that were the case, it would be open to debate for the developers whether it’s fair or not to give access to reboot servers so easily. If you open your eyes and look at the bigger picture, you’ll see that the majority of free-to-play players in reg server and reboot server are essentially facing the same update. The people who pay get perks because they keep the game running. As it is, people in reboot are already able to do end-game content with key features missing such as bonus potentials and scrolling, which likely have a much larger impact than this familiar revamp.

    And like I said, many important details are missing. For example, maybe unique potentials can give up to 9% of your main stat and legendary up to 12% which falls in line with reboot server missing out on bonus potentials, yet people only complain because reg server has a higher tier available with unknown specifics and unknown cost. Also the effect of the difference in max level is yet unknown. Just to give another example, if 3 level 5 familiars can last for 8 hours and the damage done by familiars is negligible then I don’t really see the reason why people should complain about it. Yet here people are complaining about it with important information missing, only because higher levels exist in reg servers behind an unspecified paywall. And about rerolling potentials, what people seem to miss is that all the available lines per tier and the chances to roll your desired lines are still unknown. Maybe it is a massive time sink, maybe not so much. It all depends on the details. And perhaps the vast majority of reg server will use red familiar cards or perhaps they will farm like reboot players. That all depends on pricing. With all this information missing it’s too soon to say whether it’s a good or a bad revamp, but here people are complaining about missing features that you don’t even know how much other people will have to pay for.
  • ResetReset
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    edited April 2020
    Gastero wrote: »
    Like I said, people here only complain about this because these things exist in reg server and therefore they feel entitled to it in a server that is designed to be a free-to-play cutdown version of reg server. The things you mentioned are all features locked behind a paywall that we do not know any specifics of, which could very well turn out to be a whale feature that only a fraction of reg server players make use of. And if that were the case, it would be open to debate for the developers whether it’s fair or not to give access to reboot servers so easily. If you open your eyes and look at the bigger picture, you’ll see that the majority of free-to-play players in reg server and reboot server are essentially facing the same update. The people who pay get perks because they keep the game running. As it is, people in reboot are already able to do end-game content with key features missing such as bonus potentials and scrolling, which likely have a much larger impact than this familiar revamp.

    And like I said, many important details are missing. For example, maybe unique potentials can give up to 9% of your main stat and legendary up to 12% which falls in line with reboot server missing out on bonus potentials, yet people only complain because reg server has a higher tier available with unknown specifics and unknown cost. Also the effect of the difference in max level is yet unknown. Just to give another example, if 3 level 5 familiars can last for 8 hours and the damage done by familiars is negligible then I don’t really see the reason why people should complain about it. Yet here people are complaining about it with important information missing, only because higher levels exist in reg servers behind an unspecified paywall. And about rerolling potentials, what people seem to miss is that all the available lines per tier and the chances to roll your desired lines are still unknown. Maybe it is a massive time sink, maybe not so much. It all depends on the details. And perhaps the vast majority of reg server will use red familiar cards or perhaps they will farm like reboot players. That all depends on pricing. With all this information missing it’s too soon to say whether it’s a good or a bad revamp, but here people are complaining about missing features that you don’t even know how much other people will have to pay for.

    It's not because it exists in reg server and "so that's why Reboot wants it". This is not the case. Other Reboot server have access to basically the same familiar system just fine without them having to restrict it like this. Once again, in Nexon America's eyes, GMS Reboot is somehow completely different than those Reboot servers, and therefore it warrants such restriction? They could've let us obtain it by other means and not bar us completely. At least F2P players in reg server aren't forced to live with the restrictions because they have the meso market and can get MP with meso to buy those things. They're not completely barred out of this stuff like Reboot because they have an alternative option to obtain these things.

    And knowing the odds and what potentials there are doesn't mean what they're doing is suddenly supposed to be viewed as fair. In the end, that doesn't matter, you still need lots of familiar cards just to try to tier up one time, meanwhile the drop rate for all of the best cards in the game are horrendous and take literally forever just to farm 1 card. I know it would be at least a bit better if they boosted the card drop rate significantly, but since they said they're not touching it.

    I bet nobody will have their familiars all set up by the time they finish 22 starring their Glona ring. Another task to hand off to the kids or the grandkids.
    WONDERGUYBeefJellylemon
  • GasteroGastero
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    edited April 2020
    If it wasn’t about comparing reboot to reg server, then everyone wouldn’t be complaining about the lack of those exact features that reg server will be provided with. And involving reboot servers from other regions to support your points seems kind of ridiculous. There are many differences across servers so you can pick and choose which features from which server you would like to have and start complaining about lacking them, because otherwise it would be unfair. And people who assume free-to-play players in reg server have an easy time with the meso market are completely unaware of the economy of reg server and the struggles that most free-to-play players have in it. And the availability for free-to-play players is only there because someone else spent the money for you by buying maple points, so in the end Nexon gets paid anyway.

    And the question about what’s fair or not is incredibly subjective, and ultimately up to the developers. Maybe you think it’s unfair that players in reg server who spend money on the game receive more benefits, but from what we can tell the developers don’t seem to think so. People who get upset about why reboot gets a completely different treatment from reg server should think about Nexon’s financial interest. Do you think people will play a “pay-to-win” version of the game when there’s a completely identical free-to-play version available? Or would it be smart to add some differences to create an incentive for people to play the “pay-to-win” version?
  • ResetReset
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    edited April 2020
    Gastero wrote: »
    If it wasn’t about comparing reboot to reg server, then everyone wouldn’t be complaining about the lack of those exact features that reg server will be provided with. And involving reboot servers from other regions to support your points seems kind of ridiculous. There are many differences across servers so you can pick and choose which features from which server you would like to have and start complaining about lacking them, because otherwise it would be unfair. And people who assume free-to-play players in reg server have an easy time with the meso market are completely unaware of the economy of reg server and the struggles that most free-to-play players have in it. And the availability for free-to-play players is only there because someone else spent the money for you by buying maple points, so in the end Nexon gets paid anyway.

    And the question about what’s fair or not is incredibly subjective, and ultimately up to the developers. Maybe you think it’s unfair that players in reg server who spend money on the game receive more benefits, but from what we can tell the developers don’t seem to think so. People who get upset about why reboot gets a completely different treatment from reg server should think about Nexon’s financial interest. Do you think people will play a “pay-to-win” version of the game when there’s a completely identical free-to-play version available? Or would it be smart to add some differences to create an incentive for people to play the “pay-to-win” version?

    The point is that it shows a Reboot server can have the new familiar system without it having to be gutted just because it's Reboot. JMS/TMS do have to spend NX to buy those things but it doesn't mean GMS has to just scrap it without considering adding an alternative way for GMS Reboot to have them. So defending the fact that it should just be accepted because "well there has to be differences between reg and Reboot or everyone will just play Reboot" is weak.

    There are not too many differences even between reg and Reboot to begin with. All of the significant differences reg has is trading, auction house, meso market, bpot, and scrolling (And in GMS, frenzy totem, BoD, FS, etc). There doesn't need to be anymore core differences than those, and at least all of those actually make sense for Reboot not to have any access to. Whether or not familiars are P2W in reg but gutted in Reboot, it won't be a reason people choose reg over Reboot to begin with. The above are.

    And well, F2P players in reg aren't blocked off completely regardless of the economy being horrible or not. They're not going to seriously struggle to make enough MP to buy fam rerolls/cubes, Familiar NX items in JMS/TMS are already super cheap. It's 130 NX to get 11 rerolls on a familiar and 270 NX each for the familiar cube. Nexon isn't going to be rolling in money from this by any means (Unless GMS raises the prices for said items). People buying cubes makes them tons more money than this ever will.
    BeefMageOfBattles