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Remove Kishin

Kaiser4EverKaiser4Ever
Reactions: 1,100
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edited June 2020 in General Chat
Let's get straight to the point, we all know that 97% of kannas are literally hackers and botters
The only ones (not all of them BUT most of them) that goes against the idea of nerfing or removing Kishin are literally botters and hackers.

How many legit kannas do you see and kanna botters? that's right.
In my guild and alliance together there are over 600 people but only 7 of them are kannas! out of 600+ members only 7 people are playing the class kanna... how is that make any sense? that's right, it does NOT!

Remove Kishin! in fact Kanna is such a useless class, as I mentioned no one really likes that class anyway except hackers and botters.
We can all argue and discuss about this kind of subject for hours but deep down we all know the truth.
Gomenasaicheezburger85Mercedes4Ever31HowDidIKnowSteveHyugaThumperOne1NicholasBAlantinoNebulanubis42
  1. Remove Kishin?27 votes
    1. Yes
       63% (17 votes)
    2. No, because...
       37% (10 votes)

Comments

  • HHG1HHG1
    Reactions: 5,986
    Posts: 780
    Member, Private Tester
    edited June 2020
    we all know that 97% of kannas are literally hackers and botters
    *Citation needed.

    Just because your guild and alliance is either illegit as hell, or inactive as hell, doesn't mean everyone else's is.
    A very large chunk of kannas are mesofarmers in reboot or 2PC meta mules on regular servers (not to mention link- and legion-mules).
    Hackers jump from class to class, so removing kishin wouldn't affect them at all. Blaze Wizards used to be the hacker class, then Demon Slayers, Kinesis, etc etc. now we have an influx of Kaiser hackers.
    You can make a case for removing kishin on other grounds, but "for the sake of legitimacy" is the same weak argument that Nexon tries to feed us instead of admitting their true motives or shortcomings when arbitrarily changing or removing content.
    Nerfing a class does very little, if anything, to deter hackers.

    Kanna has many merits as a class beyond kishin.
    I'd consider maining or second-maining one if it wasn't for the fact that it's a non-KMS class thus Nexon NA breaks it constantly and it's always at the center of false-ban waves. That's the only reason I stay away from non-KMS classes in general.
    FuhreakKrownopJennnnnnnnnn
  • GomenasaiGomenasai
    Reactions: 1,295
    Posts: 78
    Member
    edited June 2020
    HHG1 wrote: »
    we all know that 97% of kannas are literally hackers and botters
    *Citation needed.

    Just because your guild and alliance is either illegit as hell, or inactive as hell, doesn't mean everyone else's is.
    A very large chunk of kannas are mesofarmers in reboot or 2PC meta mules on regular servers (not to mention link- and legion-mules).
    Hackers jump from class to class, so removing kishin wouldn't affect them at all. Blaze Wizards used to be the hacker class, then Demon Slayers, Kinesis, etc etc. now we have an influx of Kaiser hackers.
    You can make a case for removing kishin on other grounds, but "for the sake of legitimacy" is the same weak argument that Nexon tries to feed us instead of admitting their true motives or shortcomings when arbitrarily changing or removing content.
    Nerfing a class does very little, if anything, to deter hackers.

    Kanna has many merits as a class beyond kishin.
    I'd consider maining or second-maining one if it wasn't for the fact that it's a non-KMS class thus Nexon NA breaks it constantly and it's always at the center of false-ban waves. That's the only reason I stay away from non-KMS classes in general.

    Wrong.
    It's true that there are some people out there that are legit and will suffer if you remove the class itself or kishin but why the majority an insane, tremendous amount of people have to suffer due to a tiny percentage in the population?
  • cheezburger85cheezburger85
    Reactions: 1,190
    Posts: 79
    Member
    edited June 2020
    HHG1 wrote: »
    we all know that 97% of kannas are literally hackers and botters
    *Citation needed.

    Just because your guild and alliance is either illegit as hell, or inactive as hell, doesn't mean everyone else's is.
    A very large chunk of kannas are mesofarmers in reboot or 2PC meta mules on regular servers (not to mention link- and legion-mules).
    Hackers jump from class to class, so removing kishin wouldn't affect them at all. Blaze Wizards used to be the hacker class, then Demon Slayers, Kinesis, etc etc. now we have an influx of Kaiser hackers.
    You can make a case for removing kishin on other grounds, but "for the sake of legitimacy" is the same weak argument that Nexon tries to feed us instead of admitting their true motives or shortcomings when arbitrarily changing or removing content.
    Nerfing a class does very little, if anything, to deter hackers.

    Kanna has many merits as a class beyond kishin.
    I'd consider maining or second-maining one if it wasn't for the fact that it's a non-KMS class thus Nexon NA breaks it constantly and it's always at the center of false-ban waves. That's the only reason I stay away from non-KMS classes in general.

    Kanna isn't even a KMS class, therefore it should and must be removed, or at least remove Kishin as they said.
  • KrimlockKrimlock
    Reactions: 1,630
    Posts: 127
    Member
    edited June 2020
    Honestly Kanna is a JMS class that almost all versions got EXCEPT KMS and all i can think of is KMS looking at its concept and looking at 1 specific skill and just said "Oh HELL no,not here! balance would be ruined horribly" and GMS be like "We take all the trash as long as we make cash!"

    When kanna came out she was horrible no question and her worst aspect was her teleport(it was stupidly cluncky) her dps was sorta decent cause of how haku fan buff worked, other than that she was only good for one thing (kinshin) other than people liking the class lore or looks or utility gameplay was not it.

    But there was one undeniable truth about kanna she was better than jett hands down...so in short should the skill be removed honestly yes and no, i say this cause while yes it brings a pacifier to too many people and no cause its to late to remove it the damage is done (mostly others naaaaing about how it will affect new players in fact they are actually just worried about them selves) cause as we see it anyone of these blasted forum posts with the mere mention of starting on reboot server say make a kanna to fund your self, and that's truly what is wrong with the class.

    There should not be in any way shape or form for anyone to say " you NEED to make this class to advance on this server" that's BS! you can just as well make ANY class make a set of item/meso gear and with pets and grind out on reboot server, will it take longer HELL YES that's the whole dang point of reboot server to go back to the grind of the older years of the game but with increased difficulty and access to most item enhancements with mesos, hell you get 5x meso rate,higher rate of gear for your class dropping, free dmg%, meso red and black cubes, increased social interactions cause now you actually "NEED" (i say need but there will always be that try hard...) other people to progress and you still cry foul when when 20% meso/item gain is taken away...

    Kannas kinshin skill is not needed people just been suckling on that skills teat for 8 years to long that you have grown depended on it and now that its slowly getting pulled out people about to cry a river and fight anyone that thinks other wise.
    Hoboxkiller
  • HHG1HHG1
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    edited June 2020
    Gomenasai wrote: »
    Wrong.
    It's true that there are some people out there that are legit and will suffer if you remove the class itself or kishin but why the majority an insane, tremendous amount of people have to suffer due to a tiny percentage in the population?
    Which part of what I said was wrong?
    In no way are kanna players a tiny percentage in GMS. By your logic all the other classes that have been popular among botters should have been removed as well.
    I'm also not arguing against the possible removal of kishin, but against OP's reasoning for it and his biased views on the class, which is illogical and doesn't warrant the removal of the skill nor kanna itself.
    Kanna isn't even a KMS class, therefore it should and must be removed, or at least remove Kishin as they said.

    I did say that it's a non-KMS class. Don't know why that means it should be removed in GMS?
    Do you also want Beast Tamer, Jett and Hayato to be removed since they're not KMS classes?
    Elaborate on your reasoning.
    Krownop
  • KrownopKrownop
    Reactions: 825
    Posts: 31
    Member
    edited June 2020
    By the logic of the OP we must remove every job that can be exploited by botters and cheaters, might as well remove jobs and just make the game beginner only because some jobs can do one thing better than the other.
    The OP is the reason why nexon keeps trashing the game.
  • AthenaAthena
    Reactions: 755
    Posts: 8
    Member
    edited June 2020
    THE SOLUTION IS TO MOVE THE KISHIN SKILL FROM 3JOB TO 5JOB AND ADD COLDOWN TO FRENZY TOTEM, ALL PEOPLE WOULD APPRECIATE IT.
  • AggraphineAggraphine
    Reactions: 19,405
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    edited June 2020
    Athena wrote: »
    THE SOLUTION IS TO MOVE THE KISHIN SKILL FROM 3JOB TO 5JOB AND ADD COLDOWN TO FRENZY TOTEM, ALL PEOPLE WOULD APPRECIATE IT.

    I'd appreciate not needing to shell out mesos for service or reward points for a paltry two hours of mob spawns not being garbage. You know what "all people" would really appreciate? Base map spawns being improved. Without the need for a whole-ass class or item.
  • DaxterbeerDaxterbeer
    Reactions: 6,920
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    edited June 2020
    I'll take a frenzy for its stats like how Orchid's Badge exists without the TMS effect.
  • AaronHuskyAaronHusky
    Reactions: 2,485
    Posts: 174
    Member, Private Tester
    edited June 2020
    This is one of the stupidest threads I've ever read in regards to Kishin being nerfed.
    Let's get straight to the point, we all know that 97% of kannas are literally hackers and botters
    The only ones (not all of them BUT most of them) that goes against the idea of nerfing or removing Kishin are literally botters and hackers.

    You have literally no way to prove this. Kanna bots are the norm, but there are boatloads of legit kanna players and people with kanna mules that have a right to be pissed off about Kishin nerfs.

    What on Earth is this logic btw? The people furious about kishin, something that everyone with a kanna can benefit from, being nerfed with nothing in return are literally botters and hackers? How did you jump to a conclusion like this?
    How many legit kannas do you see and kanna botters? that's right.
    In my guild and alliance together there are over 600 people but only 7 of them are kannas! out of 600+ members only 7 people are playing the class kanna... how is that make any sense? that's right, it does NOT!

    Did you ever ask them if they have a kanna? Or a Kanna mule? And how about instead of using your guild's anecdotal evidence, we pull from a site that measures stats for all servers? Have you also ever considered, that maybe, just maybe? Kanna isn't the class they want to main? And I call bull on there being only 7 kannas in your guild of "600 people". How many of them still log in on a regular basis?
    Remove Kishin! in fact Kanna is such a useless class, as I mentioned no one really likes that class anyway except hackers and botters.
    We can all argue and discuss about this kind of subject for hours but deep down we all know the truth.

    This is the literally stupidest take on Kanna I've ever seen on these forums. Anyone with at least one brain cell that plays Maple knows that Kanna is way more busted than just Kishin. Kanna is the best mobber, best support, and competitor for best bosser in the game. And if all you think Kanna's good for is kishin, I don't think you should be giving any input on them.

    You're right we can argue and discuss this for hours, but there is one thing that is true: You know nothing about Kanna and are making broad statements from anecdotal evidence, and baseless claims to make it seem like you do.

    You know what'd better than just removing kishin (and kanna, which is a guaranteed way to piss off everyone)? Buffing universal spawn rates. This way Nexon can remove kishin and not infuriate players in the process.
    KrownopHHG1ShadowRiku
  • SteveHyugaSteveHyuga
    Reactions: 355
    Posts: 5
    Member
    edited June 2020
    other stupid thread ...a great solution.....
    ShadowRiku
  • Luminous0014Luminous0014
    Reactions: 1,055
    Posts: 25
    Member, Private Tester
    edited June 2020
    Removing kishin is a great idea, just increase mob spawn/keep fury totem. I don't play kanna anyways, I just don't like how the fury totem is nerfed along with kishin.
  • rebuiltrebuilt
    Reactions: 615
    Posts: 26
    Member
    edited June 2020
    i do think kishin's spawn-affecting effect should be removed, or nerfed down to something minimal that still gives a boost to kanna mains (e.g. 5-10% boost) without being broken and that map spawn should be increased or fury / wild totems made more accessible

    the issue with kishin is it strongly favours one class so much and the idea that people are making the class as a mule just to train another class breaks my heart; one class shouldn't have such an advantage over others so i think any spawn increasing should be at a map level (benefits everyone equally) or in a totem accessible to all (benefits everyone equally)
    ShadowRiku
  • iArrowZiArrowZ
    Reactions: 1,710
    Posts: 159
    Member
    edited June 2020
    i would MUCH rather have base spawn increased and be i can quit my 2pc kanna because i no longer need it than whatever nonsense you are spewing.
    ShadowRiku
  • NicholasBNicholasB
    Reactions: 1,195
    Posts: 79
    Member
    edited June 2020
    AaronHusky wrote: »
    This is one of the stupidest threads I've ever read in regards to Kishin being nerfed.
    Let's get straight to the point, we all know that 97% of kannas are literally hackers and botters
    The only ones (not all of them BUT most of them) that goes against the idea of nerfing or removing Kishin are literally botters and hackers.

    You have literally no way to prove this. Kanna bots are the norm, but there are boatloads of legit kanna players and people with kanna mules that have a right to be pissed off about Kishin nerfs.

    What on Earth is this logic btw? The people furious about kishin, something that everyone with a kanna can benefit from, being nerfed with nothing in return are literally botters and hackers? How did you jump to a conclusion like this?
    How many legit kannas do you see and kanna botters? that's right.
    In my guild and alliance together there are over 600 people but only 7 of them are kannas! out of 600+ members only 7 people are playing the class kanna... how is that make any sense? that's right, it does NOT!

    Did you ever ask them if they have a kanna? Or a Kanna mule? And how about instead of using your guild's anecdotal evidence, we pull from a site that measures stats for all servers? Have you also ever considered, that maybe, just maybe? Kanna isn't the class they want to main? And I call bull on there being only 7 kannas in your guild of "600 people". How many of them still log in on a regular basis?
    Remove Kishin! in fact Kanna is such a useless class, as I mentioned no one really likes that class anyway except hackers and botters.
    We can all argue and discuss about this kind of subject for hours but deep down we all know the truth.

    This is the literally stupidest take on Kanna I've ever seen on these forums. Anyone with at least one brain cell that plays Maple knows that Kanna is way more busted than just Kishin. Kanna is the best mobber, best support, and competitor for best bosser in the game. And if all you think Kanna's good for is kishin, I don't think you should be giving any input on them.

    You're right we can argue and discuss this for hours, but there is one thing that is true: You know nothing about Kanna and are making broad statements from anecdotal evidence, and baseless claims to make it seem like you do.

    You know what'd better than just removing kishin (and kanna, which is a guaranteed way to piss off everyone)? Buffing universal spawn rates. This way Nexon can remove kishin and not infuriate players in the process.

    are you for real? i've been training with many classes and in many places around the game, 99% of hackers I saw were kannas.... you're literally lying right now....
    Krownop wrote: »
    By the logic of the OP we must remove every job that can be exploited by botters and cheaters, might as well remove jobs and just make the game beginner only because some jobs can do one thing better than the other.
    The OP is the reason why nexon keeps trashing the game.

    why are you ignoring the fact that almost every single kanna is a hacker? they're ruining our economy... did you really forget that part? that almost all hackers are kannas? have you ever wondered.... why?
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    Athena wrote: »
    THE SOLUTION IS TO MOVE THE KISHIN SKILL FROM 3JOB TO 5JOB AND ADD COLDOWN TO FRENZY TOTEM, ALL PEOPLE WOULD APPRECIATE IT.

    I'd appreciate not needing to shell out mesos for service or reward points for a paltry two hours of mob spawns not being garbage. You know what "all people" would really appreciate? Base map spawns being improved. Without the need for a whole-ass class or item.

    disagree, people paid over 6,000 USD for frenzy and so much real life money on nx and more, without them GMS will not stand a chance and will get closed....
    HHG1 wrote: »
    Gomenasai wrote: »
    Wrong.
    It's true that there are some people out there that are legit and will suffer if you remove the class itself or kishin but why the majority an insane, tremendous amount of people have to suffer due to a tiny percentage in the population?
    Which part of what I said was wrong?
    In no way are kanna players a tiny percentage in GMS. By your logic all the other classes that have been popular among botters should have been removed as well.
    I'm also not arguing against the possible removal of kishin, but against OP's reasoning for it and his biased views on the class, which is illogical and doesn't warrant the removal of the skill nor kanna itself.
    Kanna isn't even a KMS class, therefore it should and must be removed, or at least remove Kishin as they said.

    I did say that it's a non-KMS class. Don't know why that means it should be removed in GMS?
    Do you also want Beast Tamer, Jett and Hayato to be removed since they're not KMS classes?
    Elaborate on your reasoning.

    i have to disagree with you, other classes are fine, including jett, etc, because they're not that good for hackers and yet kanna are very good for hackers
    i really don't know why you're trying so hard to protect this class called kanna, they say those who protect kanna are usually hackers themselves, which is make sense.

  • ShadowRikuShadowRiku
    Reactions: 900
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    Member
    edited June 2020
    This is absolutely the DUMBEST argument I've seen for removing a class.

    Seriously? Remove the entire class because you wanna generalize and assume that 97% of Kanna players are bots/hackers?
    How rude of you to go that far. Some of us actually enjoy the class outside of Kishin, thank you very much.

    Perhaps you should do some research before you go stating what you believe are "facts." Your 6 members in your guild/alliance of seemingly illegit players doesn't count for much either. As a Kanna main, I wouldn't mind Kishin being made into a decent skill for everyone to use instead.

    And what about frenzy totem which has YET to be touched at all? Why go so far as to suggest removing an entire class instead of nerfing the biggest problem of all?
    The players that possess a frenzy totem still benefit the most.
    Krownop
  • AlantinoAlantino
    Reactions: 990
    Posts: 52
    Member
    edited June 2020
    ShadowRiku wrote: »
    This is absolutely the DUMBEST argument I've seen for removing a class.

    Seriously? Remove the entire class because you wanna generalize and assume that 97% of Kanna players are bots/hackers?
    How rude of you to go that far. Some of us actually enjoy the class outside of Kishin, thank you very much.

    Perhaps you should do some research before you go stating what you believe are "facts." Your 6 members in your guild/alliance of seemingly illegit players doesn't count for much either. As a Kanna main, I wouldn't mind Kishin being made into a decent skill for everyone to use instead.

    And what about frenzy totem which has YET to be touched at all? Why go so far as to suggest removing an entire class instead of nerfing the biggest problem of all?
    The players that possess a frenzy totem still benefit the most.

    I'm not saying they are or not but I just hope the people in the forum who defends Kanna as if their life's depended on it are not hackers, lol.
    But no rush, don't remove the class itself, remove Kishin, sounds good enough to me.
  • ShadowRikuShadowRiku
    Reactions: 900
    Posts: 36
    Member
    edited June 2020

    Alantino wrote: »
    ShadowRiku wrote: »
    This is absolutely the DUMBEST argument I've seen for removing a class.

    Seriously? Remove the entire class because you wanna generalize and assume that 97% of Kanna players are bots/hackers?
    How rude of you to go that far. Some of us actually enjoy the class outside of Kishin, thank you very much.

    Perhaps you should do some research before you go stating what you believe are "facts." Your 6 members in your guild/alliance of seemingly illegit players doesn't count for much either. As a Kanna main, I wouldn't mind Kishin being made into a decent skill for everyone to use instead.

    And what about frenzy totem which has YET to be touched at all? Why go so far as to suggest removing an entire class instead of nerfing the biggest problem of all?
    The players that possess a frenzy totem still benefit the most.

    I'm not saying they are or not but I just hope the people in the forum who defends Kanna as if their life's depended on it are not hackers, lol.
    But no rush, don't remove the class itself, remove Kishin, sounds good enough to me.

    It's bizarre to me since this is the opposite view of another site where Maplers tend to frequent. Most everyone that plays Reboot knows that to progress quickly enough you basically have to have a Kanna to farm on. I can't imagine hacking, let alone doing what *some* people in this thread are doing - accusing all players of a certain class to be hackers.
  • ProphetieProphetie
    Reactions: 915
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    edited June 2020
    NicholasB wrote: »
    i have to disagree with you, other classes are fine, including jett, etc, because they're not that good for hackers and yet kanna are very good for hackers
    i really don't know why you're trying so hard to protect this class called kanna, they say those who protect kanna are usually hackers themselves, which is make sense.

    Because you're a new player that only seen Kanna hackers doesn't mean it's a Kanna issue.
    When I played on Bera, 100% of the hackers were Wild Hunters then I quit and came back years later to find out 100% of the hackers were Blaze Wizards, then Demon Slayers and only now is it Kannas.
    If you think most Kannas are hackers, you probably never heard of Reboot before, where legit players all have at least one Kanna.
    Not to mention people having a Kishin mule regardless of server.
    Also, most hackers being Kanna does not mean most Kannas are hackers.
    The ammount of cognitive bias in your response is quite frankly alarming
  • HHG1HHG1
    Reactions: 5,986
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    edited June 2020
    NicholasB wrote: »

    i have to disagree with you, other classes are fine, including jett, etc, because they're not that good for hackers and yet kanna are very good for hackers
    i really don't know why you're trying so hard to protect this class called kanna, they say those who protect kanna are usually hackers themselves, which is make sense.
    Did you even bother reading my post? Because if you did, I have to say that reading comprehension is not your strong suit.
    I'm making the point that it's stupid to make the argument that just because a class is popular among hackers for any period of time warrants it getting removed. I illustrated this by pointing out other classes that have dominated as the hacking class for longer periods of time as well. (And responding to the person saying that kanna should be removed just for being a non-KMS class, which is equally dumb.)

    Again, hackers have used a large variety of classes for hacking over the years, and removing kanna as a class would not slow them down at all.
    Arguing for removing kanna is the same as arguing for the removal of every other class that has ever been used for hacking, which, again, is stupid.

    If you can't see why removing a whole class solely based on the reasoning that hackers have used, are using, or will use it on a larger scale, then you must be stupid too. If you see no other merit in keeping kanna as a class then you have clearly never played one.

    There is a case to be made against kishin and the unhealthy meta surrounding it, but going "kanna hackers bad, all kanna are hackers, remove the class" is so far detached from any type of logic I'm not even sure if I should have dignified it with a response, or several.
    ruth02ShadowRikuKrownop
This discussion has been closed.