all im seeing is a bunch of word play from you. well. i will leave you to your delusions
if you think I'm doing word play you are probably borderline illiterate
good job also proving my point LOL.
you don't have any ideia what you are talking about right? also I thought you would "leave you to your delusions", who would have thought that a dishonest person would lie?
Let's turn a blind eye at how people who farmed multiple 40% Boss damage line familiars (not counting double lines) can now easily 120% boss damage on reboot once they get enough badges?
You can overlook a lot of smaller things like gollux, badges, lab pieces, buff coupons, etc (even though they do add up) but can't with this, because this is arguably a solid 20-50% boss dps increase and when you factor in double lines, IED, it can even be more.
On top of that even people who didn't "exploit" the system and had pre 213 spiders and such get literally double the benefit new players can reasonably get with common from familiars. 1.5 vs 3 lines of drop% is huge especially for someone starting out and only has 1 or maybe 2.
In order to have everyone on a semi level playing field reboot needs reasonably priced red cards, better higher tier drop rates, and the potentials need to be shifted to match people already got. At least then people have a chance of catching up to people who "abused" during the time it was possible.
I use "exploit" and "abuse" in quotes because where people draw the line at bug abuse varies wildly and is pointless to argue about when Nexon doesn't draw the line themselves.
As for non-reboot, with my limited knowledge, isn't it weird to be trading cards without the potentials revealed? The same way I can buy items with certain stats I'd kind of expect the same from familiars.
My take is alongside Mastahiro and Krownop on this.
I'm really disappointed with how this familiar revamp was handled.
I'm a returning player who started playing after the revamp happened, and learning about others have farmed familiars and how they can get 2 lines of 30 or 40% boss or drop rate on epic familiars with unique tier lines is really discouraging, especially when you consider how players before the patch could farm these up in a reasonable amount of hours. Now I have to come to terms with the fact that, with drop rate being nerfed, I have to farm hundreds of hours to have similar lines, to be on the same playing field.
The cost of not having these familiars is as if you had no potentials on 2 weapons, secondaries, or emblems. There's currently a divide between people who were not able to get good lines on their familiars, and those that didn't. This is an extraordinary amount of damage to lack compared to a player that only had to farm for a few hours pre-revamp to obtain.
I feel disgusted. Reading some of the other comments, the drop rate of familiars was meant to stay the same, but Nexon decided to make them start from common instead of at epic.
After the DMT fiascos, I feel really let down by the changes Nexon have implemented. I don't feel valued as a returning player at all. I feel discouraged and distraught.
40% boss (on 3x familiars) is an INSANE and UNBALANCED pot that most weapons can NEVER even get. Nexon should remove this from the game.
Back when it was possible I farmed 3 Jr.boogies with 40% boss that, as of writing this comment, there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY of obtaining in reboot anymore.
The addition of theese cards is a stupid decision and should be reverted.
I wouldn't, FOR A SECOND!, be suprised if I somehow got banned because I got these cards with 120% boss on them... No let me rephrase that...
I wouldn't be suprised if I got banned for simply PLAYING THE GAME!.
all im seeing is a bunch of word play from you. well. i will leave you to your delusions
if you think I'm doing word play you are probably borderline illiterate
good job also proving my point LOL.
you don't have any ideia what you are talking about right? also I thought you would "leave you to your delusions", who would have thought that a dishonest person would lie?
the only reason you are still confused is because i didnt bother pointing out your nonsense. hence "leave you to your delusions"
its clear that you were not able to figure out why i said that comment since u still continue to be an idiot with your nonsensical replies.
On top of that even people who didn't "exploit" the system and had pre 213 spiders and such get literally double the benefit new players can reasonably get with common from familiars. 1.5 vs 3 lines of drop% is huge especially for someone starting out and only has 1 or maybe 2.
by this logic nothing should ever be updated.. because you know. when things change it may be harder for someone else..
lmao please..that is just plain silly
lets just never update the game ever again and see how long it lasts.
what you clearly fail to realize is that..
you not longer are forced to farm what.. 3 Familiars to get a specific stat..
which is a HUGE improvement.. sure it may take some more effort.
however the gain is that potentially any familiar you want will be able to do the job the spider can - among many other's that were previously locked-
for example the drop rate wolf provided (forgot the name) that was not even obtainable in reboot? can now potentially obtained by any familiar -mind you the work has to be put in -
looking at this update with a very narrow minded lens.
if we are comparing to what other people have, than sorry to say but you may aswell just quit.
there is things on my account some players do not even know exist that give me an "advantage." or otherwise.
While I agree with some of your points, imagine thinking that anyone who farmed familiars is an "exploiter" and that only people who didn't invest time into farming familiars are "legit." Like might as well ban every end-game player.
On top of that even people who didn't "exploit" the system and had pre 213 spiders and such get literally double the benefit new players can reasonably get with common from familiars. 1.5 vs 3 lines of drop% is huge especially for someone starting out and only has 1 or maybe 2.
by this logic nothing should ever be updated.. because you know. when things change it may be harder for someone else..
lmao please..that is just plain silly
lets just never update the game ever again and see how long it lasts.
what you clearly fail to realize is that..
you not longer are forced to farm what.. 3 Familiars to get a specific stat..
which is a HUGE improvement.. sure it may take some more effort.
however the gain is that potentially any familiar you want will be able to do the job the spider can - among many other's that were previously locked-
for example the drop rate wolf provided (forgot the name) that was not even obtainable in reboot? can now potentially obtained by any familiar -mind you the work has to be put in -
looking at this update with a very narrow minded lens.
if we are comparing to what other people have, than sorry to say but you may aswell just quit.
there is things on my account some players do not even know exist that give me an "advantage." or otherwise.
and no i am not talking about pottable badges.
You tell people to see things from both sides, but you haven't seen it from both sides. You just like to play with words and act like you're smart lol.
On top of that even people who didn't "exploit" the system and had pre 213 spiders and such get literally double the benefit new players can reasonably get with common from familiars. 1.5 vs 3 lines of drop% is huge especially for someone starting out and only has 1 or maybe 2.
by this logic nothing should ever be updated.. because you know. when things change it may be harder for someone else..
lmao please..that is just plain silly
lets just never update the game ever again and see how long it lasts.
what you clearly fail to realize is that..
you not longer are forced to farm what.. 3 Familiars to get a specific stat..
which is a HUGE improvement.. sure it may take some more effort.
however the gain is that potentially any familiar you want will be able to do the job the spider can - among many other's that were previously locked-
for example the drop rate wolf provided (forgot the name) that was not even obtainable in reboot? can now potentially obtained by any familiar -mind you the work has to be put in -
looking at this update with a very narrow minded lens.
if we are comparing to what other people have, than sorry to say but you may aswell just quit.
there is things on my account some players do not even know exist that give me an "advantage." or otherwise.
and no i am not talking about pottable badges.
You are also clearly missing the point and not properly reading, the problem is not necessarily that it could take a couple thousand hours to attain the same amount of familiars as people being called "exploiters" got in a couple dozen hours for farming them before nexon went back on their word of not touching drop rates. The real problem is that in reboot you can't really get the lines anymore that were attainable before they took it down temporarily. So wether you are lazy or not, you could farm for tens of thousands of hours but it won't change the fact you can't reach those lines on an epic familiar anymore. That's what is making people so angry. Basically it's as if for 4 days if you buy new absolab equipment (for a reduced cost of 1 coin instead of the regular cost) they would have the set effect and stats of the arcane set. Then they revert it back. No matter how many absolab sets you would get you wouldn't be able to get those stats. Basically the item was bugged out and rolled what it wasn't supposed to roll but they just leave those items there. Acting as if nothing ever happened. It's just a complete f- up on nexon's part, they pretty much just took a dump, put their panties back on and kept walking with a dirty ass as if that was normal. Nexon is just too afraid to aknowledge their own imcompetence to deal with these kind of situations and you can say what you want but everything clearly points at that.
looking at this update with a very narrow minded lens.
Yes, yes you are. Do you even play on reboot? Did you farm and use familiars during the time that epics dropped at higher rate than current commons and also gave unique lines that now give epic ones instead? Have you looked at the rates for farming unique familiars to rival said unique familiars?
According to some, the drop rate of an Epic familiar is 1/72000 (or 0.00138%), if you kill at a rate of 300mobs/min on 0% drop rate (kishin 100% uptime) you get about 1 every 4 hours of farming on low-level maps, with no meso gain, no exp gain, no nodes, nothing, just for a chance of an epic drop. Even if you increase drop rate to 200%, you'd still get an average of 1 every 1.3 hours.
Right, so, there are apparently 116 different epic lines, out of which 14 are good (drop, IED, boss, hp recovery to party), that's a 12% roll of getting something good on the epic line, every 1.3 hours, at 200% drop, with a Kanna. So for ANY good roll, you need 8.3 attempts, which at 1.3hours per is 10.79 hours
If you want 3 boss familiars, then you got 2/116 odds, that's 58 rolls attempts on average for each, 75.4 hours times 3 is 226.2 hours or about 9.5 days of 24h nonstop grinding and in the end, you get an average of 25% boss, or 75% total. Or to put it into perspective at a conservative 400m/hr, that's 90.480b worth for all 3 boss familiars.
All of this is disregarding that people who input their epic familiars during that time got access to Unique + Epic rolls instead of Epic + Rare. So in reality you should be looking at Unique drop rates, we're comparing 75% boss to 120% on single lines. Those are so rare that we don't even have data on them yet to be able to do the maths, I'd say statistically impossible to achieve.
Ironically enough, getting slightly over half the boss damage from familiars now, takes almost 3x as long as the whole system was open to be abused.
Basically it's as if for 4 days if you buy new absolab equipment (for a reduced cost of 1 coin instead of the regular cost) they would have the set effect and stats of the arcane set. Then they revert it back. No matter how many absolab sets you would get you wouldn't be able to get those stats.
Pretty much this, or if they fluked the drop rate for pensalir for 4 days and instead made mobs in arcane river drop all pieces of the arcane set pre-starred at 23* instead, then in an attempt to balance power creep, fix it and nerf droplet drop rate by 10 - Everyone who farmed during those days is stupidly inflated to a point where it is statistically impossible to achieve
While I agree with some of your points, imagine thinking that anyone who farmed familiars is an "exploiter" and that only people who didn't invest time into farming familiars are "legit." Like might as well ban every end-game player.
No one is calling for a ban, Nexon messed up the implementation of their system, and messed up the handling of it after that. People are complaining that this widens the gap between people who took advantage of an unintended mechanic, and people who don't. Nexon keeps setting bad precedents where abusing "bugs" is ok because they never admit to their failures, and as such never roll them back or take a stance on whether the behavior is unacceptable.
While I agree with some of your points, imagine thinking that anyone who farmed familiars is an "exploiter" and that only people who didn't invest time into farming familiars are "legit." Like might as well ban every end-game player.
I apologize for using this term, I'm aware of how divisive is to calling a lot of people exploiters, but as a I said in the first post, I'm not blaming anyone that used the advantages.
Using exploiter and legit players was the only words that I can think of to describe the situation, for example, if I had wrote veterans vs newbies that wouldn't be true at all, or If I had wrote casual vs hardcore that would still be a lie, so the best words that I came up with it was exploiters and legit players, but the intention was not be derogatory.
Comments
you don't have any ideia what you are talking about right? also I thought you would "leave you to your delusions", who would have thought that a dishonest person would lie?
Let's turn a blind eye at how people who farmed multiple 40% Boss damage line familiars (not counting double lines) can now easily 120% boss damage on reboot once they get enough badges?
You can overlook a lot of smaller things like gollux, badges, lab pieces, buff coupons, etc (even though they do add up) but can't with this, because this is arguably a solid 20-50% boss dps increase and when you factor in double lines, IED, it can even be more.
On top of that even people who didn't "exploit" the system and had pre 213 spiders and such get literally double the benefit new players can reasonably get with common from familiars. 1.5 vs 3 lines of drop% is huge especially for someone starting out and only has 1 or maybe 2.
In order to have everyone on a semi level playing field reboot needs reasonably priced red cards, better higher tier drop rates, and the potentials need to be shifted to match people already got. At least then people have a chance of catching up to people who "abused" during the time it was possible.
I use "exploit" and "abuse" in quotes because where people draw the line at bug abuse varies wildly and is pointless to argue about when Nexon doesn't draw the line themselves.
As for non-reboot, with my limited knowledge, isn't it weird to be trading cards without the potentials revealed? The same way I can buy items with certain stats I'd kind of expect the same from familiars.
I'm really disappointed with how this familiar revamp was handled.
I'm a returning player who started playing after the revamp happened, and learning about others have farmed familiars and how they can get 2 lines of 30 or 40% boss or drop rate on epic familiars with unique tier lines is really discouraging, especially when you consider how players before the patch could farm these up in a reasonable amount of hours. Now I have to come to terms with the fact that, with drop rate being nerfed, I have to farm hundreds of hours to have similar lines, to be on the same playing field.
The cost of not having these familiars is as if you had no potentials on 2 weapons, secondaries, or emblems. There's currently a divide between people who were not able to get good lines on their familiars, and those that didn't. This is an extraordinary amount of damage to lack compared to a player that only had to farm for a few hours pre-revamp to obtain.
I feel disgusted. Reading some of the other comments, the drop rate of familiars was meant to stay the same, but Nexon decided to make them start from common instead of at epic.
After the DMT fiascos, I feel really let down by the changes Nexon have implemented. I don't feel valued as a returning player at all. I feel discouraged and distraught.
Back when it was possible I farmed 3 Jr.boogies with 40% boss that, as of writing this comment, there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY of obtaining in reboot anymore.
The addition of theese cards is a stupid decision and should be reverted.
I wouldn't, FOR A SECOND!, be suprised if I somehow got banned because I got these cards with 120% boss on them... No let me rephrase that...
I wouldn't be suprised if I got banned for simply PLAYING THE GAME!.
the only reason you are still confused is because i didnt bother pointing out your nonsense. hence "leave you to your delusions"
its clear that you were not able to figure out why i said that comment since u still continue to be an idiot with your nonsensical replies.
by this logic nothing should ever be updated.. because you know. when things change it may be harder for someone else..
lmao please..that is just plain silly
lets just never update the game ever again and see how long it lasts.
what you clearly fail to realize is that..
you not longer are forced to farm what.. 3 Familiars to get a specific stat..
which is a HUGE improvement.. sure it may take some more effort.
however the gain is that potentially any familiar you want will be able to do the job the spider can - among many other's that were previously locked-
for example the drop rate wolf provided (forgot the name) that was not even obtainable in reboot? can now potentially obtained by any familiar -mind you the work has to be put in -
looking at this update with a very narrow minded lens.
if we are comparing to what other people have, than sorry to say but you may aswell just quit.
there is things on my account some players do not even know exist that give me an "advantage." or otherwise.
and no i am not talking about pottable badges.
You tell people to see things from both sides, but you haven't seen it from both sides. You just like to play with words and act like you're smart lol.
You are also clearly missing the point and not properly reading, the problem is not necessarily that it could take a couple thousand hours to attain the same amount of familiars as people being called "exploiters" got in a couple dozen hours for farming them before nexon went back on their word of not touching drop rates. The real problem is that in reboot you can't really get the lines anymore that were attainable before they took it down temporarily. So wether you are lazy or not, you could farm for tens of thousands of hours but it won't change the fact you can't reach those lines on an epic familiar anymore. That's what is making people so angry. Basically it's as if for 4 days if you buy new absolab equipment (for a reduced cost of 1 coin instead of the regular cost) they would have the set effect and stats of the arcane set. Then they revert it back. No matter how many absolab sets you would get you wouldn't be able to get those stats. Basically the item was bugged out and rolled what it wasn't supposed to roll but they just leave those items there. Acting as if nothing ever happened. It's just a complete f- up on nexon's part, they pretty much just took a dump, put their panties back on and kept walking with a dirty ass as if that was normal. Nexon is just too afraid to aknowledge their own imcompetence to deal with these kind of situations and you can say what you want but everything clearly points at that.
Yes, yes you are. Do you even play on reboot? Did you farm and use familiars during the time that epics dropped at higher rate than current commons and also gave unique lines that now give epic ones instead? Have you looked at the rates for farming unique familiars to rival said unique familiars?
According to some, the drop rate of an Epic familiar is 1/72000 (or 0.00138%), if you kill at a rate of 300mobs/min on 0% drop rate (kishin 100% uptime) you get about 1 every 4 hours of farming on low-level maps, with no meso gain, no exp gain, no nodes, nothing, just for a chance of an epic drop. Even if you increase drop rate to 200%, you'd still get an average of 1 every 1.3 hours.
Right, so, there are apparently 116 different epic lines, out of which 14 are good (drop, IED, boss, hp recovery to party), that's a 12% roll of getting something good on the epic line, every 1.3 hours, at 200% drop, with a Kanna. So for ANY good roll, you need 8.3 attempts, which at 1.3hours per is 10.79 hours
If you want 3 boss familiars, then you got 2/116 odds, that's 58 rolls attempts on average for each, 75.4 hours times 3 is 226.2 hours or about 9.5 days of 24h nonstop grinding and in the end, you get an average of 25% boss, or 75% total. Or to put it into perspective at a conservative 400m/hr, that's 90.480b worth for all 3 boss familiars.
All of this is disregarding that people who input their epic familiars during that time got access to Unique + Epic rolls instead of Epic + Rare. So in reality you should be looking at Unique drop rates, we're comparing 75% boss to 120% on single lines. Those are so rare that we don't even have data on them yet to be able to do the maths, I'd say statistically impossible to achieve.
Ironically enough, getting slightly over half the boss damage from familiars now, takes almost 3x as long as the whole system was open to be abused.
Pretty much this, or if they fluked the drop rate for pensalir for 4 days and instead made mobs in arcane river drop all pieces of the arcane set pre-starred at 23* instead, then in an attempt to balance power creep, fix it and nerf droplet drop rate by 10 - Everyone who farmed during those days is stupidly inflated to a point where it is statistically impossible to achieve
No one is calling for a ban, Nexon messed up the implementation of their system, and messed up the handling of it after that. People are complaining that this widens the gap between people who took advantage of an unintended mechanic, and people who don't. Nexon keeps setting bad precedents where abusing "bugs" is ok because they never admit to their failures, and as such never roll them back or take a stance on whether the behavior is unacceptable.
I apologize for using this term, I'm aware of how divisive is to calling a lot of people exploiters, but as a I said in the first post, I'm not blaming anyone that used the advantages.
Using exploiter and legit players was the only words that I can think of to describe the situation, for example, if I had wrote veterans vs newbies that wouldn't be true at all, or If I had wrote casual vs hardcore that would still be a lie, so the best words that I came up with it was exploiters and legit players, but the intention was not be derogatory.