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Regarding Potential Upcoming Changes to Set Effect

ArgynArgyn
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The Korean server (KMS) had changed set effects in items such that 2 of the same item would not count towards a set effect. The general consensus when this change was translated for the GMS community, was that Superior Gollux would be excluded from the changes because it specifically denotes 2 Superior Engraved Gollux Pendants in the Set.

However, recent information from the Chinese Server (CMS) that was posted suggests this to not be the case and shows people wearing 4 Set Superior Gollux with 2 Pendants but only getting the Set Bonus from 3 Set.

Does anyone have any further information on this and whether you can talk to the Dev Team about it? This pretty heavily impacts reg server players who decided to go with 15* Tyrant Belts and/or 22* Dreamy Belts instead of 22* Superior Engraved Gollux Belts, both of which are extremely expensive options.

For context, the current iteration of Best in Slot gear would feature you getting 4 Set Superior Gollux off 2 Pendants, Earring, and a Ring (Granting 30% Boss and IED off the Set Bonus) and then getting 5 Set Pitched Boss off Berserked, Magic Eyepatch, Dreamy Belt, Endless Terror and their class's respective Cursed Spellbook.

Because it might be brought up, a viable alternative is to swap Dreamy Belt for Superior Engraved Gollux Belt and 1 of the 2 Pendants for Source of Suffering, or swap the Dreamy Belt for Superior Engraved Gollux Belt and Superior Gollux Earrings for Commanding Force Earrings. But prior to the release of Commanding Force Earrings and Endless Terror though, the prevalent opinion was that Dreamy Belt was Best in Slot as it represented a lower relative stat loss when compared to its Gollux counterpart than with Source of Suffering vs Superior Engraved Gollux Pendant. In short, I would say a significant number of players are invested in either 15* Tyrant Belts (an item which costs an average of over 1 Million NX to make) which they slot in until they can assemble all the respective Pitched Boss items, or 22* Dreamy Belts for players that have already made them. If this change launches as is to GMS it would alienate a pretty large amount of loyal and likely high-paying players.

I know, personally, that I would be forced to switch from my 15* Tyrant Belt to a 22* Superior Belt, something which, in the current economy and game state, does not seem feasible in the slightest for me. I am seriously considering quitting if this change does go live because I legitimately just don't have the funds to recoup the massive loss in damage and gameplay I experience from losing my 4 set Gollux.

Another response that I would like to address before it may come up, is that in any game's progression there is inevitable power creep or advancement that changes the best gear and I'm being too much of a crybaby about this. The difference is, this isn't progression, it's regression. Rather than adding something new to the game for players to strive towards and acquire, which their old gear from the previous iteration can help them with, players who have made specific best in slot gear are getting kneecapped for not knowing about an arbitrary change that would come years in the future.

To use an example, when the 25 Star enhancement system and Arcane gear came to Maple, those who had made previous best in slot in Transposed Tyrant didn't actively lose damage and could still very easily use that gear to progress towards the new best in slot. They didn't lose any damage, they just had higher potential ceiling

In this case, any player who has made a 22* Dreamy Belt or 15* Tyrant Belt is losing significant damage with no recourse. In fact, they have a huge penalty just for making that gear as its price in the economy is going to drop massively considering 4-Set Gollux has been core to the gear progression of GMS for years now. If the change ships the way its been rumored to on CMS, it would be a huge slap in the face to any player who had previously invested significantly into either Dreamy Belts or Tyrant Belts.

Sorry for the wall of text, but as someone who loves this game and has played it for a very long time, and has dealt with the ups and downs of loving a Nexon game, this is genuinely a change that I feel very uncomfortable if it ships the way it's being projected from this post
TerrorStreak

Comments

  • AggraphineAggraphine
    Reactions: 19,405
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    edited October 2020
    How about we not write novels about test server changes, hm?

    If it hasn't hit live, then what are you freaking out over?

    Also, just because cms gets something doesn't mean it's coming to gms. Same goes for things msea gets.
  • TerrorStreakTerrorStreak
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    edited October 2020
    I am concerned about the same thing Brother!
  • AKradianAKradian
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    Volunteer Forum Moderator, Private Tester
    edited October 2020
    Thank you for articulating the concern.

    In Friday's preview stream, CM Ghiblee assured us that this change is not included in v217 (this week's patch).
    As for whether it is intended to come in v218, or later, the CMs could not say, but both CM Ghiblee and CM Kyrios, on stream and on reddit, made it clear that Nexon is aware of the community concerns and the significance of the double-pendant Superior Gollux set in GMS.

    Finally, as Aggraphine pointed out, even in China, this change is only in the Test server. It might end up being a bug that they fix, even there.
  • AggraphineAggraphine
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    edited October 2020
    I'd like to take a moment to, once again, vaguely gesture toward the rest of cms and remind anyone who's concerned about this that just because one service gets something does not necessarily mean everyone will be getting it. Another fine example being that pants-on-head starforce guardian angel event msea had.
  • L4d2jpnL4d2jpn
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    edited October 2020
    The only time it's guaranteed that one region won't get it is when it's a buff for players. You should know that by now. when it's the opposite it's definitely not a 50-50 chance.
  • AggraphineAggraphine
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    edited October 2020
    I wish I had a list handy of all the negative-for-players changes that have hit kmst and been met with backlash and removed or reverted by the time the patch hit live servers.
  • OccireOccire
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    edited October 2020
    TMS has announced they will be getting this set effect change (from KMS 1.2.333) in their next patch on October 21st and will not be making changes to allow double pendants in the Superior Gollux set effect. However, as announced on the official fan Facebook page, they've discussed it with the original developers (NexonKR, I assume), and are able to offer the following compensation:

    If you have a Dreamy Belt, since you can't trade it after equipping (and thus, can't sell it to fund a new Superior Engraved Gollux Belt), you can log a ticket to exchange it for a Superior Engraved Gollux Belt. The Facebook post then links to the actual patch announcement post on their website, and it lists scrolls, stars, potentials, and golden hammer status, but not bonus stats/flames, as things that will be transferred over to the Gollux belt. It doesn't seem like they're replace the scrolling with Advanced Gollux Scrolls, so you'd probably have to Ark Innocence and do it yourself, unless you'd rather keep the scrolling.

    There is no compensation announced for Tyrant belts (I assume because you can sell it, they don't feel the need to).

    As a reminder, this still has not been announced for GMS, though I'm personally unsure how long we can evade this change.

    EDIT: Oh, they (the official fan Facebook page) made a comment on their post that clarifies they asked the original developers (again, NexonKR, I assume), whether or not they could make exceptions, but were told no, so, I think that kinda tends quite heavily more towards we're getting it than not.
  • L4d2jpnL4d2jpn
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    edited October 2020
    I just saw that post as well too. Guess that explains why it feels like nexonNA is completely out of touch with the playerbase. Everything has to go through KMS, and if it's anything that helps the players or makes particular servers better than KMS it's getting gutted as long as it doesn't involve lawsuits.

    Prove us wrong Anna, Ghibli and Kyrios. Show us that you actually give a damn about the players and defend your playerbase. Every non-KMS player knows that this has 2 options. Make the Lotus heart unique equipped rather than nerfing every other set.
    gigatrap
  • ADeliColdCutADeliColdCut
    Reactions: 520
    Posts: 9
    Member
    edited October 2020
    Argyn wrote: »
    ...
    Because it might be brought up, a viable alternative is to swap Dreamy Belt for Superior Engraved Gollux Belt and 1 of the 2 Pendants for Source of Suffering, or swap the Dreamy Belt for Superior Engraved Gollux Belt and Superior Gollux Earrings for Commanding Force Earrings. But prior to the release of Commanding Force Earrings and Endless Terror though, the prevalent opinion was that Dreamy Belt was Best in Slot as it represented a lower relative stat loss when compared to its Gollux counterpart than with Source of Suffering vs Superior Engraved Gollux Pendant. In short, I would say a significant number of players are invested in either 15* Tyrant Belts (an item which costs an average of over 1 Million NX to make) which they slot in until they can assemble all the respective Pitched Boss items, or 22* Dreamy Belts for players that have already made them. If this change launches as is to GMS it would alienate a pretty large amount of loyal and likely high-paying players.
    ...
    Another response that I would like to address before it may come up, is that in any game's progression there is inevitable power creep or advancement that changes the best gear and I'm being too much of a crybaby about this. The difference is, this isn't progression, it's regression. Rather than adding something new to the game for players to strive towards and acquire, which their old gear from the previous iteration can help them with, players who have made specific best in slot gear are getting kneecapped for not knowing about an arbitrary change that would come years in the future.
    ...

    Hello Argyn:

    I wanted to comment on a couple of points you made in a hopefully not too critical way... While I'm not at this point in the game progression, I can certainly understand the frustration you have based on your post.

    You state that this hurts "...players... for not knowing about an arbitrary change... years in the future." But, I have to ask how is this any different than any other nerf that is done to a character's skill set?

    Couldn't every player that chose to Main and Adele make this same argument about the upcoming nerf to the class? Those people also made investments into a character that will be severely weakened (Regression) after the nerf. In this case, much like the one regarding these items, the strength of that character is lessened, but not eliminated entirely. I know that in non-Reboot servers the ability to transfer gear around to another character lessens this impact, but I think it still represents the concept properly as not everything would be able to move to a new character, thus a loss of some form of investment.

    I feel as though this argument can be made anytime a change occurs that decreases the magnitude of something's effectiveness in the game, which these changes are inevitable to occur as a game develops.

    Main point I takeaway from this: I think we will always be subject to changes made that will strengthen or weaken our setups in the game... And part of the challenge, and for some the enjoyment, of playing the game is to overcome new obstacles. It could be viewed as a loss of investment, or it can be viewed as a new chance to re-structure one's setup to determine what new glass ceiling exists that we can next try to break through. But, any suggestions on how we can "lessen the blow" of this impact should be relayed to the community teams so they can pass on the consideration, along with the reasonings behind those suggestions.

    L4d2jpn wrote: »
    ...
    Every non-KMS player knows that this has 2 options. Make the Lotus heart unique equipped rather than nerfing every other set.

    Hello L4d2jpn:

    The way I read this situation is that there is time and there is evidence showing that honest and good faith suggestions are being relayed and considered.

    If we accept that this change is coming, then we should start offering constructive suggestions on what could be done to help players transition, which I'm assuming would be the last sentence from your post. (Though you mention 2 options, but only list 1...)

    Cheers!
  • L4d2jpnL4d2jpn
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    edited October 2020
    .
    If we accept that this change is coming, then we should start offering constructive suggestions on what could be done to help players transition, which I'm assuming would be the last sentence from your post. (Though you mention 2 options, but only list 1...)

    My last sentence was that it's accepted that KMS wants to gut stacking of items to get unintentional set bonuses. The two options was that either everyone gets the change (no items can count twice towards a set) OR KMS actually addresses their issue by making the damaged heart a unique equipped item instead.

    Both options fixes their original issue at hand, the fact that xenon's were getting a +1 to the pitched boss set because they can equip 2 hearts. The difference is that one completely screws over a staple meta in every other maplestory version that contains gollux while one retains the meta. In another sense, one is a complete and utter FU to people who paid or spent a lot of time to get their tyrant belts to 15* in a way that doesn't promote gear upgrading.

    If a new belt came out that completely outclasses tyrants then I don't think it would be that big of a deal. However this is a change that makes both tyrants (hard Magnus coin drops) and dreamy belt (lv200 belt hard lucid drop) become obsolete just because KMS said no more double anything rather than no more double damaged heart. Even though it was to address the double heart issue.
  • ArgynArgyn
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    edited October 2020
    As Occire said, the change has now been implemented in TMS and the devs have explicitly said KMS devs would not allow the changes to be excepted or not implemented.

    I didn't realize when this post got approved so I haven't tracked it closely but I'll make a few responses now in turn.

    @Aggraphine - The reason I was so worried when it got shipped to CMST was because it seems like the style of change that is not a bug and will make it to live. The fact that it has now made it to TMS, and TMS Nexon confirmed that KMS devs would not let them except the change for Gollux confirms all of my worries.

    @ADeliColdCut - I will just point you back to the part of my original post:

    The difference is, this isn't progression, it's regression. Rather than adding something new to the game for players to strive towards and acquire, which their old gear from the previous iteration can help them with, players who have made specific best in slot gear are getting kneecapped for not knowing about an arbitrary change that would come years in the future.

    We are not gaining anything new out of the changes. The changes do not introduce a new set of equipment to increase our damage potentials or anything. What the change does is warp the effects of EXISTING gear to suit the needs of a very nuanced bugfix yet somehow also screws an entire large subset of the playerbase in the process. This is not the addition of a 25 star enhancement system. Gear isn't being devalued due to being obsolete - it is being devalued because existing functionality is being removed. When 25-star came about and Arcanes became the best gear, my Tyrants didn't suddenly become bad. They become less valuable overall, but I could still use them exactly the same as before and did not suffer directly as a consequence, even if my items lost value. In the case of this change, that does happen. It would be a similar case where rather than just removing the ability to get Ghost Ship Exorcist, they had also REMOVED everyone's Ghost Ship Exorcist badge in the process. These things are qualitatively different.

    I know Kyrios has previously stated that they do not have much information on the upcoming change but are aware of it - but to me, it seems as though unless the player base demonstrates its willpower, we will simply be overruled yet again.

    The harm of the change is already manifesting in the game. In Elysium, scalpers have bought out every single 22* belt on the AH to hoard them and manipulate the market, while a significant majority of the late-game community scramble to find replacements. Tyrant Belts are basically unsellable due to small server population. And again - not because new gear is coming out, but because we are simply obsoleting old gear for the sake of expediency.

    I would again ask that our CMs and GMS's community and developers do what they can to stop this change - little as that effort may amount to. Because I personally think this change is regressive and harmful to the player base for absolutely no reason.
  • darikdarik
    Reactions: 3,030
    Posts: 600
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    edited October 2020
    Argyn wrote: »
    The Korean server (KMS) had changed set effects in items such that 2 of the same item would not count towards a set effect. The general consensus when this change was translated for the GMS community, was that Superior Gollux would be excluded from the changes because it specifically denotes 2 Superior Engraved Gollux Pendants in the Set.

    However, recent information from the Chinese Server (CMS) that was posted suggests this to not be the case and shows people wearing 4 Set Superior Gollux with 2 Pendants but only getting the Set Bonus from 3 Set.

    Does anyone have any further information on this and whether you can talk to the Dev Team about it? This pretty heavily impacts reg server players who decided to go with 15* Tyrant Belts and/or 22* Dreamy Belts instead of 22* Superior Engraved Gollux Belts, both of which are extremely expensive options.

    For context, the current iteration of Best in Slot gear would feature you getting 4 Set Superior Gollux off 2 Pendants, Earring, and a Ring (Granting 30% Boss and IED off the Set Bonus) and then getting 5 Set Pitched Boss off Berserked, Magic Eyepatch, Dreamy Belt, Endless Terror and their class's respective Cursed Spellbook.

    Because it might be brought up, a viable alternative is to swap Dreamy Belt for Superior Engraved Gollux Belt and 1 of the 2 Pendants for Source of Suffering, or swap the Dreamy Belt for Superior Engraved Gollux Belt and Superior Gollux Earrings for Commanding Force Earrings. But prior to the release of Commanding Force Earrings and Endless Terror though, the prevalent opinion was that Dreamy Belt was Best in Slot as it represented a lower relative stat loss when compared to its Gollux counterpart than with Source of Suffering vs Superior Engraved Gollux Pendant. In short, I would say a significant number of players are invested in either 15* Tyrant Belts (an item which costs an average of over 1 Million NX to make) which they slot in until they can assemble all the respective Pitched Boss items, or 22* Dreamy Belts for players that have already made them. If this change launches as is to GMS it would alienate a pretty large amount of loyal and likely high-paying players.

    I know, personally, that I would be forced to switch from my 15* Tyrant Belt to a 22* Superior Belt, something which, in the current economy and game state, does not seem feasible in the slightest for me. I am seriously considering quitting if this change does go live because I legitimately just don't have the funds to recoup the massive loss in damage and gameplay I experience from losing my 4 set Gollux.

    Another response that I would like to address before it may come up, is that in any game's progression there is inevitable power creep or advancement that changes the best gear and I'm being too much of a crybaby about this. The difference is, this isn't progression, it's regression. Rather than adding something new to the game for players to strive towards and acquire, which their old gear from the previous iteration can help them with, players who have made specific best in slot gear are getting kneecapped for not knowing about an arbitrary change that would come years in the future.

    To use an example, when the 25 Star enhancement system and Arcane gear came to Maple, those who had made previous best in slot in Transposed Tyrant didn't actively lose damage and could still very easily use that gear to progress towards the new best in slot. They didn't lose any damage, they just had higher potential ceiling

    In this case, any player who has made a 22* Dreamy Belt or 15* Tyrant Belt is losing significant damage with no recourse. In fact, they have a huge penalty just for making that gear as its price in the economy is going to drop massively considering 4-Set Gollux has been core to the gear progression of GMS for years now. If the change ships the way its been rumored to on CMS, it would be a huge slap in the face to any player who had previously invested significantly into either Dreamy Belts or Tyrant Belts.

    Sorry for the wall of text, but as someone who loves this game and has played it for a very long time, and has dealt with the ups and downs of loving a Nexon game, this is genuinely a change that I feel very uncomfortable if it ships the way it's being projected from this post

    i fully agree with this, reverting something that has been implemented for so long, without EVER telling us it wasnt intentional, specially when a lot of money is involved is a very bad move from a company. It could mean a lot of players, who invested hundreds if not thousands of dollars on some gear to basically feel unmotivated and probably quit, and those end game players are the ones who spend thousand on the game, so we, the players and the company i believe , need them for the survival of the game.
  • darikdarik
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    edited October 2020
    AKradian wrote: »
    Thank you for articulating the concern.

    In Friday's preview stream, CM Ghiblee assured us that this change is not included in v217 (this week's patch).
    As for whether it is intended to come in v218, or later, the CMs could not say, but both CM Ghiblee and CM Kyrios, on stream and on reddit, made it clear that Nexon is aware of the community concerns and the significance of the double-pendant Superior Gollux set in GMS.

    Finally, as Aggraphine pointed out, even in China, this change is only in the Test server. It might end up being a bug that they fix, even there.

    yeah but better safe than sorry, its good that they make this threads to show Nexon that the players are aware of this being a possibility and that they arent happy of it, its good to voice our concerns as a community to avoid nexon considering implementing this.
  • ArgynArgyn
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    edited November 2020
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    How about we not write novels about test server changes, hm?

    If it hasn't hit live, then what are you freaking out over?

    Also, just because cms gets something doesn't mean it's coming to gms. Same goes for things msea gets.
    Aggraphine wrote: »
    I'd like to take a moment to, once again, vaguely gesture toward the rest of cms and remind anyone who's concerned about this that just because one service gets something does not necessarily mean everyone will be getting it. Another fine example being that pants-on-head starforce guardian angel event msea had.

    ha.
    gigatrap
  • gigatrapgigatrap
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    edited November 2020
    a
  • gigatrapgigatrap
    Reactions: 420
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    edited November 2020
    a
  • gigatrapgigatrap
    Reactions: 420
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    edited November 2020
    a
  • YacyYacy
    Reactions: 1,565
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    edited November 2020
    Ya sad that I am getting penalized as an OG player who's using SW Earrings. It's not fair because people using SW Pendant wil
  • YacyYacy
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    edited November 2020
    Ya sad that I am getting penalized as an OG player who's using SW Earrings. It's not fair because someone using SW Pendant that has the same flame/potential/Starforces as my SW
  • YacyYacy
    Reactions: 1,565
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    edited November 2020
    Ya sad that I am getting penalized as an OG player who's using SW Earrings. It's not fair because someone using SW Pendant that has the same flame/potential/Starforces as my SW Earrings will be as strong before. I