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Compensation for Wild Totem Removal

BunnyBombBunnyBomb
Reactions: 795
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Member
edited October 2022 in Suggestions, Feedback, and Requests
Time gating people into a 2 hour time frame was one of the worst decisions I feel like nexon made. It was added to the game to balance kishin from kanna but now with kishin gone there is no need for it. Feeling the need to squeeze out as much as you can in that 2 hours is exhausting and people have to pee or leave their pc and they miss out because of it. I love grinding for really long times but I also like a 30 min grind and a 30 min grind should be 1/4 of what you earn from 2 hours not significantly less because you didn't want to pop the totem to only use it for 30 mins, maybe you want to grind for 3 hours you still miss out that 1 hour of significantly higher exp. Forcing people into a 2 hour time frame for grinding is discouraging and I grind a lot.
However, the game is simply more fun with more exp and more mobs to kill. I agree with the decision to remove them 100% but in order keep the game more fun increasing spawn rates across all maps or even just more exp for each mob does need to happen, to keep the balance we are used to.
MapleBishopFan85Dnaman101SweetMangoes

Comments

  • psuobucitpsuobucit
    Reactions: 510
    Posts: 6
    Member
    edited October 2022
    I love how you are so innocent, thinking that GM or CM will ever listen to you. They haven changed since 2007. They won't. Give up your hope. Only compensation they have for you is 15 minute 2x exp coupons (up to 10)
  • BladesingerBladesinger
    Reactions: 1,120
    Posts: 10
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    edited October 2022
    I agree with your sentiment that Wild Totems were a mistake from the get-go. Their addition created a punishing meta that added to the stress of gameplay and added FOMO to hunting and training, of all things—the core of gameplay. But beyond missing out on rates if you hunt without a totem, the game also becomes less engaging because high-level players can clear maps before mobs respawn, meaning every several seconds you're forced to sit and do nothing while you wait for mobs to come back. Not engaging.

    Maple continues to back itself further into a corner. When the typical player experience is one-shotting mobs, leaving no room for strategy or danger outside of bossing, a saving grace was that players could be continually engaged in movement and using skills across the map (or having platforming challenges, or varying levels of mobs in one map—but that's a different discussion).

    The "compensation" of further reducing the cost of star force upgrades is hilarious to me. What is the relation between a satisfying training experience and how much money you spend on upgrades? Thought of from the gameplay engagement perspective I brought up, this is a non sequitur, and, if anything, will only increase the speed at which players attain the strength that forces them to wait around while mobs respawn. Increasing spawn rate overall as OP suggested would be a solution worth discussing, but it's probably not plausible considering how much that would separate GMS from KMS. Increasing EXP rates, on the other hand, is to me not a valid compensation because it doesn't address my core concern, which is how satisfying it is to hunt—the gameplay.

    The best time to plant a tree is twenty years ago, and the best compensation for removing Wild Totems is to not have made the average player strong enough that training is boring without a totem. Unfortunately, I think scaling back player power would be an even worse decision for game health than keeping Wild Totems. If a good solution exists, I haven't thought of it, but I can't wait to hear what other perspectives people have.
  • RogueBloodRogueBlood
    Reactions: 1,480
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    edited October 2022
    Now that Kishin spawn is gone and Wild Totems are now leaving, WHEN ARE FRENZY TOTEMS GOING!?
  • BladesingerBladesinger
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    edited October 2022
    Yeah, I'm really curious why they didn't take Frenzies out as well. I'm a Reboot player, so we're left with no spawn enhancers at all.
  • StarryKnightStarryKnight
    Reactions: 1,935
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    edited October 2022
    Worse, their reasoning that the only offset they need to do is reduce starforce costs is laughable, people don't only use totems to farm meso for starforcing, they also use them to farm nodes, familiars, event drops, exp, as well as for finishing quests that require large number of monster kills (events) much more quickly. All of these, and more, are negatively impacted by this change, not just starforcing costs. So unless they are doubling EXP and Node drop rates, and reducing mob count requirements for events, or buffing the spawn timer/rate for all maps, this change is just a huge middle finger to the player base.
    Dnaman101
  • BunnyBombBunnyBomb
    Reactions: 795
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    Member
    edited October 2022
    they are going to update the game. they aren't going to remove totems and then not rebalance things. They increase exp rates and drop rates all the time, you don't need to be locked into a 2hr segment for it.
  • BunnyBombBunnyBomb
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    edited October 2022
    psuobucit wrote: »
    I love how you are so innocent, thinking that GM or CM will ever listen to you. They haven changed since 2007. They won't. Give up your hope. Only compensation they have for you is 15 minute 2x exp coupons (up to 10)

    I'm agreeing with the change they made, just saying an upgrade after it would be nice. I'm talking about future updates not everything all at once silly
  • BunnyBombBunnyBomb
    Reactions: 795
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    edited October 2022
    I agree with your sentiment that Wild Totems were a mistake from the get-go. Their addition created a punishing meta that added to the stress of gameplay and added FOMO to hunting and training, of all things—the core of gameplay. But beyond missing out on rates if you hunt without a totem, the game also becomes less engaging because high-level players can clear maps before mobs respawn, meaning every several seconds you're forced to sit and do nothing while you wait for mobs to come back. Not engaging.

    Maple continues to back itself further into a corner. When the typical player experience is one-shotting mobs, leaving no room for strategy or danger outside of bossing, a saving grace was that players could be continually engaged in movement and using skills across the map (or having platforming challenges, or varying levels of mobs in one map—but that's a different discussion).

    The "compensation" of further reducing the cost of star force upgrades is hilarious to me. What is the relation between a satisfying training experience and how much money you spend on upgrades? Thought of from the gameplay engagement perspective I brought up, this is a non sequitur, and, if anything, will only increase the speed at which players attain the strength that forces them to wait around while mobs respawn. Increasing spawn rate overall as OP suggested would be a solution worth discussing, but it's probably not plausible considering how much that would separate GMS from KMS. Increasing EXP rates, on the other hand, is to me not a valid compensation because it doesn't address my core concern, which is how satisfying it is to hunt—the gameplay.

    The best time to plant a tree is twenty years ago, and the best compensation for removing Wild Totems is to not have made the average player strong enough that training is boring without a totem. Unfortunately, I think scaling back player power would be an even worse decision for game health than keeping Wild Totems. If a good solution exists, I haven't thought of it, but I can't wait to hear what other perspectives people have.

    this is literally them getting out of the corner they backed into when they made the dang things
    Also I stated I want the spawn rate increase across the board. totems are the opposite of fun gameplay because you have to stop to use it. imagine just walking into a map and it's already balanced for you. They will continue to update the game after totems because the game existed before totems just fine and they have made several exp and item drop changes through out the game. This isn't the Last update ever
  • FuhreakFuhreak
    Reactions: 7,440
    Posts: 1,509
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    edited October 2022
    Never expected this day to come after they put the message about post-300 areas honestly.
    It's a good change for sure. Since GMS is more used to easy EXP rates (I feel like Meso is mostly covered by SF reduction) we could probably use some more EXP coupons for awhile in events to help ween players off totem fumes.
    That said, this too, will be forgotten and accepted by players because ultimately what Nexon is doing is good for the state of the game. It's just not good for the short term, which is why they've been spreading these changes out over a long series of patches over the last few years.

    Keep at it Nexon. KMS 1:1 someday.
    BunnyBomb
  • DaxterbeerDaxterbeer
    Reactions: 7,195
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    edited October 2022
    Fuhreak wrote: »
    Never expected this day to come after they put the message about post-300 areas honestly.
    It's a good change for sure. Since GMS is more used to easy EXP rates (I feel like Meso is mostly covered by SF reduction) we could probably use some more EXP coupons for awhile in events to help ween players off totem fumes.
    That said, this too, will be forgotten and accepted by players because ultimately what Nexon is doing is good for the state of the game. It's just not good for the short term, which is why they've been spreading these changes out over a long series of patches over the last few years.

    Keep at it Nexon. KMS 1:1 someday.

    Reg GMS would never reach a 1:1 state because Frenzy Totems were never affected in these spawn changes. While regular players lose access to spawn boosters, people with Frenzy are unaffected by these changes except maybe more reliance since Kanna boosting and popping 2 hours of wild isn't a thing anymore. FZ owners are still able to boost themselves, sell services and finally sell the mesos they earn for real money instead of working at a job. If Nexon wants to target the source of meso production, they would eliminate these farmers or at delete the rest of the Frenzy Totems (the ones that survived the 2019 discontinuation.)
    FuhreakBunnyBomb
  • RogueBloodRogueBlood
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    edited October 2022
    Daxterbeer wrote: »
    Reg GMS would never reach a 1:1 state because Frenzy Totems were never affected in these spawn changes. While regular players lose access to spawn boosters, people with Frenzy are unaffected by these changes except maybe more reliance since Kanna boosting and popping 2 hours of wild isn't a thing anymore. FZ owners are still able to boost themselves, sell services and finally sell the mesos they earn for real money instead of working at a job. If Nexon wants to target the source of meso production, they would eliminate these farmers or at delete the rest of the Frenzy Totems (the ones that survived the 2019 discontinuation.)
    Daxterbeer wrote: »
    If Nexon wants to target the source of meso production, they would eliminate these farmers or at delete the rest of the Frenzy Totems (the ones that survived the 2019 discontinuation.)
    Daxterbeer wrote: »
    delete the rest of the Frenzy Totems
    Daxterbeer wrote: »
    delete the rest of the Frenzy Totems
    Daxterbeer wrote: »
    DELETE THE REST OF THE FRENZY TOTEMS
    Daxterbeer wrote: »
    DELETE THE REST OF THE FRENZY TOTEMS
    Daxterbeer wrote: »
    DELETE THE REST OF THE FRENZY TOTEMS
  • BunnyBombBunnyBomb
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    edited October 2022
    I should mention I only play on reboot. Frenzy totems are just another reason to stop playing reg servers
  • Dnaman101Dnaman101
    Reactions: 2,025
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    edited October 2022
    The main point of Wild Totem is to increase the spawn of monsters! Many maps in the game have poor spawn and/or spawn rate. Just because most mesos earned while using Wild Totem are used on Star Force, doesn't mean Wild Totem can be taken away because you lower the cost of Star Force.

    Give us Wild Totems so you can take away Kishin, take away Wild Totems and give us reduced Star Force cost. WHAT A JOKE!

    https://forums.maplestory.nexon.net/discussion/31012/deleting-permanent-safety-gems-is-not-acceptable/p1
    Just over a year ago Nexon did this, which I'm still not over. What's next?

    Edit: On a side note: Not once have I EVER used Wild Totem to get extra mesos...yes more monsters spawn and the rate they spawn at increased...but NEVER used to get mesos, just more exp or increased spawn to make finding hard to get items easier, which has been made harder after 2x Drop Coupons were removed from the Cash Shop back in March
    AreYouMyMom
  • BunnyBombBunnyBomb
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    edited October 2022
    Dnaman101 wrote: »
    The main point of Wild Totem is to increase the spawn of monsters! Many maps in the game have poor spawn and/or spawn rate. Just because most mesos earned while using Wild Totem are used on Star Force, doesn't mean Wild Totem can be taken away because you lower the cost of Star Force.

    Give us Wild Totems so you can take away Kishin, take away Wild Totems and give us reduced Star Force cost. WHAT A JOKE!

    https://forums.maplestory.nexon.net/discussion/31012/deleting-permanent-safety-gems-is-not-acceptable/p1
    Just over a year ago Nexon did this, which I'm still not over. What's next?

    Edit: On a side note: Not once have I EVER used Wild Totem to get extra mesos...yes more monsters spawn and the rate they spawn at increased...but NEVER used to get mesos, just more exp or increased spawn to make finding hard to get items easier, which has been made harder after 2x Drop Coupons were removed from the Cash Shop back in March

    what if i told you you don't need totems for exp and mesos in long run cuz they'll rebalance like they have several times.
    i can't believe anyone would defend an item that locks you in for 2 hrs
    this is a good change just give it time and stop being in denial about it
    you should try moving forward and accepting that it's happening so that we can talk about future updates and how to improve the game after they make the change
    Fuhreakplazapearer
  • Dnaman101Dnaman101
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    edited October 2022
    I have little faith in Nexon to do something like that
  • ClawStaffClawStaff
    Reactions: 2,950
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    edited October 2022
    Nexon uh... you know what would be a better solution delete all spawn related totems, and make the spawn rates better on the maps. You can keep the number of enemies the same as normal honestly if you would make the enemies respawn faster.

    It doesn't have to be an instant respawn, just enough where you don't almost lose combo orb combos because sometimes enemies take forever to respawn.
    Dnaman101BunnyBomb
  • Dnaman101Dnaman101
    Reactions: 2,025
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    edited October 2022
    ClawStaff wrote: »
    Nexon uh... you know what would be a better solution delete all spawn related totems, and make the spawn rates better on the maps. You can keep the number of enemies the same as normal honestly if you would make the enemies respawn faster.

    It doesn't have to be an instant respawn, just enough where you don't almost lose combo orb combos because sometimes enemies take forever to respawn.

    +1
    BunnyBomb
  • StarzStarz
    Post: 1
    Member
    BunnyBomb wrote: »
    Time gating people into a 2 hour time frame was one of the worst decisions I feel like nexon made. It was added to the game to balance kishin from kanna but now with kishin gone there is no need for it. Feeling the need to squeeze out as much as you can in that 2 hours is exhausting and people have to pee or leave their pc and they miss out because of it. I love grinding for really long times but I also like a 30 min grind and a 30 min grind should be 1/4 of what you earn from 2 hours not significantly less because you didn't want to pop the totem to only use it for 30 mins, maybe you want to grind for 3 hours you still miss out that 1 hour of significantly higher exp. Forcing people into a 2 hour time frame for grinding is discouraging and I grind a lot.
    However, the game is simply more fun with more exp and more mobs to kill. I agree with the decision to remove them 100% but in order keep the game more fun increasing spawn rates across all maps or even just more exp for each mob does need to happen, to keep the balance we are used to.

    I really can't understand what the fun is in grinding a game 24/7 and how is that "fun" to you. Just because you have the time and not have to go to work or school to grind all day shouldn't mean that everyone else must feel the same way. You're bringing up these excuses that make no sense at all when it comes to the wild totems. So you're main reason why you agree that these totems should be removed is because to you it's exhausting to grind in those 2 hrs with out a break or you will lose out on exp, drops, mesos, etc? Really that just sounds like a you problem and not a over all negative for the player base. Not everyone grinds the same way you do or feels the same you do when using those wild totems. All those totems did was help give a extra boost to your character and shorting the time of this long grind in the game. It was actually balancing things out since the level cap is so high now and things are way more expensive than it use to be in this game. So having anything that help cut that time and boost rewards should be welcomed by everyone in this game.

    You also bring up points in how this game was played before wild totems and how the game was just "fine" back then too. Are you forgetting that the level cap was only 200 back then, the cap of mesos were 2b at most, No bigger bosses than PB and HT to defeat, the best training maps for higher levels were skeles and stronghold, and twilight perion. Also if you think about it we also had some sort of spawn increase in the game after the big bang update anyway. Before totems we had wild hunter hackers glitching maps to increase spawn which lasted years before GMS decided to actually do something about it. So your whole point about how everyone were just fine back in the day with out totems is mute.

    Lastly, like others stated they didn't even remove Frenzy totems so all this will do is create more issues for the game in the long run. More mesos sellers drowning the market with excess amount of mesos, more people relying on hacking in order to receive those missing gains, and more legit players quitting because let's be real no one wants to really spend their whole day grinding to lvl 300 with the low rates we would be receiving now. The only people who are okay with this are ones that already reached there ultimate goal and have no need for those totems, or the very few minority that still lives in the pre bb era where grinding for 24/7 was enjoyable. You are giving Nexon way too much faith updating this game to compensate this change. They already giving the star force discount and exp coupons which will be the final change to this compensation. Anything new will just result in removal in other beneficial things for the player. We seen this time and time again. Just look back at all the other changes they done. It started out with the Kishin tweaks.

    Every time Nexon does something really good they always take two steps back. However. if by some God like change does happen it won't come for at least a few years from now in which case the playerbase may have already been lost by then. Since I can assure you this will definitely cause a lot of players to quit this game. We live in 2022 now and most players now already adapted to the change of fast=better. Hardly anyone still wants that old pre-bb grind back since it's pointless to bring back with all these updates. Anyways I apologize if I come off rude but I just can't understand all these excuses people are making up for being "okay" with this wild totem removal.
  • BunnyBombBunnyBomb
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    edited October 2022
    Starz wrote: »
    BunnyBomb wrote: »
    Time gating people into a 2 hour time frame was one of the worst decisions I feel like nexon made. It was added to the game to balance kishin from kanna but now with kishin gone there is no need for it. Feeling the need to squeeze out as much as you can in that 2 hours is exhausting and people have to pee or leave their pc and they miss out because of it. I love grinding for really long times but I also like a 30 min grind and a 30 min grind should be 1/4 of what you earn from 2 hours not significantly less because you didn't want to pop the totem to only use it for 30 mins, maybe you want to grind for 3 hours you still miss out that 1 hour of significantly higher exp. Forcing people into a 2 hour time frame for grinding is discouraging and I grind a lot.
    However, the game is simply more fun with more exp and more mobs to kill. I agree with the decision to remove them 100% but in order keep the game more fun increasing spawn rates across all maps or even just more exp for each mob does need to happen, to keep the balance we are used to.

    I really can't understand what the fun is in grinding a game 24/7 and how is that "fun" to you. Just because you have the time and not have to go to work or school to grind all day shouldn't mean that everyone else must feel the same way. You're bringing up these excuses that make no sense at all when it comes to the wild totems. So you're main reason why you agree that these totems should be removed is because to you it's exhausting to grind in those 2 hrs with out a break or you will lose out on exp, drops, mesos, etc? Really that just sounds like a you problem and not a over all negative for the player base. Not everyone grinds the same way you do or feels the same you do when using those wild totems. All those totems did was help give a extra boost to your character and shorting the time of this long grind in the game. It was actually balancing things out since the level cap is so high now and things are way more expensive than it use to be in this game. So having anything that help cut that time and boost rewards should be welcomed by everyone in this game.

    You also bring up points in how this game was played before wild totems and how the game was just "fine" back then too. Are you forgetting that the level cap was only 200 back then, the cap of mesos were 2b at most, No bigger bosses than PB and HT to defeat, the best training maps for higher levels were skeles and stronghold, and twilight perion. Also if you think about it we also had some sort of spawn increase in the game after the big bang update anyway. Before totems we had wild hunter hackers glitching maps to increase spawn which lasted years before GMS decided to actually do something about it. So your whole point about how everyone were just fine back in the day with out totems is mute.

    Lastly, like others stated they didn't even remove Frenzy totems so all this will do is create more issues for the game in the long run. More mesos sellers drowning the market with excess amount of mesos, more people relying on hacking in order to receive those missing gains, and more legit players quitting because let's be real no one wants to really spend their whole day grinding to lvl 300 with the low rates we would be receiving now. The only people who are okay with this are ones that already reached there ultimate goal and have no need for those totems, or the very few minority that still lives in the pre bb era where grinding for 24/7 was enjoyable. You are giving Nexon way too much faith updating this game to compensate this change. They already giving the star force discount and exp coupons which will be the final change to this compensation. Anything new will just result in removal in other beneficial things for the player. We seen this time and time again. Just look back at all the other changes they done. It started out with the Kishin tweaks.

    Every time Nexon does something really good they always take two steps back. However. if by some God like change does happen it won't come for at least a few years from now in which case the playerbase may have already been lost by then. Since I can assure you this will definitely cause a lot of players to quit this game. We live in 2022 now and most players now already adapted to the change of fast=better. Hardly anyone still wants that old pre-bb grind back since it's pointless to bring back with all these updates. Anyways I apologize if I come off rude but I just can't understand all these excuses people are making up for being "okay" with this wild totem removal.

    First off idc about frenzy totems the worse reg servers look the better. I only play on reboot, so that much means nothing to me. If you want to play on the p2w servers then expect p2w.

    So according to nexon itself, on the steam post about it, they are basically just admitting that kishin was never a good idea and that totems purely existed to balance it out for other classes (and to break the 2 pc meta) Without kishin and totems the maps would already be balanced differently, but they have to compensate for the fat boosts of increased spawn rate. I've been saying the exact same thing since kishin release that the balance of the game messed up. Nexon admitted they messed up releasing them and is removing them, just like they did kishin. Nexon will change the balance of maps as they have rebalanced them several times already. Look at how many droplets and nodestones you get now. Every time they increase the level cap they increase exp on things up to that point. You say nexon won't do anything but if you played back in the day getting level 200 was way harder than it is now. Heck level 30 used to take forever, and I played then without totems just fine.

    Wild Fury Totems are Meta and if you don't know what a meta is in a game like this it is referring to it is what a Majority of players are doing to upgrade the most. Nexon encouraging people to be locked for 2hr is just wrong and unhealthy. Being able to benefit more from quicker 30 min grinds will make it significantly more appealing to Casual Players, as well as a grinding people like me that don't like disrupted gameplay. Totems are disruptive to gameplay as you have to go to the cash shop, have enough reward points for it, equip an item, equip the skill, and then replace it every 2 mins. Nexon has been getting rid of basic buffs for toggles on all classes for a reason, it disrupts game play. If the map already had the spawn rate then you wouldn't need to do all of those things that break up game play.

    I understand a new Meta is intimidating, but your post reeks of denial and frustration. My original post was not about the immediate lash back you can't get out of your head. The point of the post was to accept what nexon has already decided on and where to go next. You seem to think if you complain loud enough nexon will change their mind. They won't. The sooner you accept that the quicker we can focus on getting what everyone wants and that's to just go into a map and just grind with the spawns rates already there, so they can play on their own preferred time.
  • BunnyBombBunnyBomb
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    edited October 2022
    Dnaman101 wrote: »
    I have little faith in Nexon to do something like that

    They already have made several balance updates with exp, drop rate, and more. What makes you think this is the last update ever and they will never do anything to fix the balance of a new meta? It's gonna take time but it's going to happen. They will update the game.
    Fuhreak