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Kanna Failure of a Rework

MoxieMoxie
Reactions: 450
Posts: 2
Member
edited September 2023 in Suggestions, Feedback, and Requests
Hello,
In the recent revamp for kanna (v.244) many of the changes for Kanna skills do not agree with the reasoning behind them. This post is made to raise awareness of the current state of the class after the patch in correspondance to the desired effects written out by the devs.

Firstly, it was prompted that Kanna's weak attacking power was remedied by cost-adjusting party attacking power
"We have designed Kanna to excel at various fields that can serve various roles, but as we adjust overpowered spec, Kanna’s characteristic became vague and the overall power level became low."
-"In order to solve this, we decided to focus on Kanna’s damage rather than the party support ability."

To facilitate the change, Spirit's Domain was reduced to 15% final damage from 33% final damage, and 100% boss damage (bd) was given to Kanna.
However this barely alters Kannas damage output, or by a minimal degree. The final damage nerf equates to 13.5% decrease in final damage output. The extra bd should compensate for this, however, for a near to end game Kanna sitting around 600 combined td/bd, a 100% bd increase only equates to around 16% fd increase (2.5% increase...), with higher td/bd% numbers giving sub 13.5% damage increase. Therefore this change cuts party attacking capabilities while barely changing Kanna's attacking power.

To further facilitate this change, Kanna's Vanquisher's Charm was upgraded to 330% from 300% damage lines. This is a 10% final damage increase from skill output, however, in a full skill rotation, Vanquisher's Charm only makes up 10% of Kanna's total accumulated damage. Therefore the 10% final damage increase equates to a 1% final damage increase.

In addition to this, the charge time of Spirit's Domain was adjusted by increasing mana output of Vanquisher's Charm as well as reducing the mana cost requirement per interval. This benefit is offset by the now increased difficulty in mana management in using the full duration of Vanquisher's Charm, as well as increased difficulty in managing placement of mana veins. The minor increase in damage output does not outweigh the cons associated to this change.

Clearly these changes directly contradict what was stated in the patch notes from the developers. Please forward this issue urgently as Kanna is still one of the worst classes for individual damage capabilities in the game, and now it's support capabilities are outclassed by even non support characters such as Dawn Warriors. At the very least, please allow players who have a Kanna as their main character to switch to another class if there are no planned changes for it. A significant portion of the Kanna community at this point would rather the class be deleted because of the lack of trust in your decision making regarding class balances. Stop worrying about accidentally buffing Kannas, and actually buff Kannas. This mentality is actually wasting more time with these pointless changes.
Fabio_MKristyRods
  1. Was Kanna revamp a failure?11 votes
    1. Yes
       91% (10 votes)
    2. No
       9% (1 vote)

Comments

  • StaconaStacona
    Reactions: 1,385
    Posts: 216
    Member
    edited September 2023
    No because it still has not happened, this is balance changes in accordance to other classes like Battle Mage and Mechanic got this same update.
    They consider Kanna as that tier of support, Lara is also thrown in that bucket, where you are meant to be more of a hybrid of damage and support (though I disagree, Kanna should just be a full on support and move her into that direction, and be more of the Beast Tamer and Bishop true support category than a hybrid).
  • StaconaStacona
    Reactions: 1,385
    Posts: 216
    Member
    edited September 2023
    You are bad at math.

    100% boss damage with the decrease to the final damage is:
    400% damage total = small buff to solo damage
    500% damage total = about neutral
    600% damage total = less damage (small nerf) to solo damage

    This ignores the vanquisher charm buff, which is 10% final damage to the spell itself.
  • RedRavenRedRaven
    Reactions: 910
    Posts: 160
    Member
    edited September 2023
    Stacona: the 30% more to Vanquisher Charm is Irrelevant if the cast duration goes from 10 sec to 2-5 sec(cutting the dps of Vanq by 50-80%)
  • psuobucitpsuobucit
    Reactions: 510
    Posts: 6
    Member
    edited September 2023
    Stacona wrote: »
    You are bad at math.

    100% boss damage with the decrease to the final damage is:
    400% damage total = small buff to solo damage
    500% damage total = about neutral
    600% damage total = less damage (small nerf) to solo damage

    This ignores the vanquisher charm buff, which is 10% final damage to the spell itself.

    If you go like "Well as long as you have less than 539% damage in total it's still a buff", then that's not a buff; it's setting a limit to Kanna's progression.
    And 10% increase, sure. 10% to the skill that takes about 10% of whole BA measurement (given that you can use this skill fully) is a buff to compensate the nerf, right?
    Rods
  • Fabio_MFabio_M
    Reactions: 940
    Posts: 17
    Member
    edited September 2023
    psuobucit wrote: »
    If you go like "Well as long as you have less than 539% damage in total it's still a buff", then that's not a buff; it's setting a limit to Kanna's progression.
    And 10% increase, sure. 10% to the skill that takes about 10% of whole BA measurement (given that you can use this skill fully) is a buff to compensate the nerf, right?

    you got it the other way around - as long as you are UNDER 539% total damage+bossdamage in your stat window, it's a small buff up to neutral at exactly 539%

    If you actually get stronger than that, then it starts working as a NERF, making stronger kannas technicaly weaker with every progress they make when compared to before the changes!

    Let's take my own kanna as an example.

    i have 643% visual damage+boss damage combined while buffed with let's say, my hard lomien setup, with familiars, correct links, in boss damage barrier, with ab link, sparkling red, etc:

    let's add the 100% base
    so in reality its 843 total with domain, 743 without
    simple math:
    843/743=1,1345
    aka 13,45%fd
    15+13,45 = 28,45

    Hey, I'm playing the weakest class in the game AND I just lost 4,55% final damage because of these changes, and I'm talking in a solo setting, not bossing with a party that makes these changes even worse, no event stats, etc etc.

    let's imagine we're in a bossing party setting, with a few classes that might give boss damage, or damage%, etc etc,
    Let's imagine that, all of the sudden, that 743% total D+BD is now 900%

    1000/900= 1,111111
    11,11%FD
    15+11,11 = 26,11%

    Old domain was 33%, now I have 26,11% from it, making my kanna a whopping 6,89% Final damage weaker than before these "changes" that "focus on Kanna’s damage rather than the party support ability."

    LMAO
    psuobucitRods
  • StaconaStacona
    Reactions: 1,385
    Posts: 216
    Member
    edited September 2023
    psuobucit wrote: »
    Stacona wrote: »
    You are bad at math.

    100% boss damage with the decrease to the final damage is:
    400% damage total = small buff to solo damage
    500% damage total = about neutral
    600% damage total = less damage (small nerf) to solo damage

    This ignores the vanquisher charm buff, which is 10% final damage to the spell itself.

    If you go like "Well as long as you have less than 539% damage in total it's still a buff", then that's not a buff; it's setting a limit to Kanna's progression.
    And 10% increase, sure. 10% to the skill that takes about 10% of whole BA measurement (given that you can use this skill fully) is a buff to compensate the nerf, right?

    400% damage total should be treated like 95% ied and you want to avoid going higher than this as best as you can, if you are hitting this number then stat and attack option for more damage will be better. (outside of crit damage which is a completely separate system)
  • BfortbattleBfortbattle
    Reactions: 1,325
    Posts: 23
    Member
    edited September 2023
    Stacona wrote: »
    psuobucit wrote: »
    Stacona wrote: »
    You are bad at math.

    100% boss damage with the decrease to the final damage is:
    400% damage total = small buff to solo damage
    500% damage total = about neutral
    600% damage total = less damage (small nerf) to solo damage

    This ignores the vanquisher charm buff, which is 10% final damage to the spell itself.

    If you go like "Well as long as you have less than 539% damage in total it's still a buff", then that's not a buff; it's setting a limit to Kanna's progression.
    And 10% increase, sure. 10% to the skill that takes about 10% of whole BA measurement (given that you can use this skill fully) is a buff to compensate the nerf, right?

    400% damage total should be treated like 95% ied and you want to avoid going higher than this as best as you can, if you are hitting this number then stat and attack option for more damage will be better. (outside of crit damage which is a completely separate system)

    Sources of att and magic attack are very limited, while boss damage and damage are there in abundance. You are once again spreading misinformation and blatantly Kanna hating.
    Rods
  • DKnukunuDKnukunu
    Reactions: 1,045
    Posts: 7
    Member, Private Tester
    edited September 2023
    Stacona wrote: »
    psuobucit wrote: »
    Stacona wrote: »
    You are bad at math.

    100% boss damage with the decrease to the final damage is:
    400% damage total = small buff to solo damage
    500% damage total = about neutral
    600% damage total = less damage (small nerf) to solo damage

    This ignores the vanquisher charm buff, which is 10% final damage to the spell itself.

    If you go like "Well as long as you have less than 539% damage in total it's still a buff", then that's not a buff; it's setting a limit to Kanna's progression.
    And 10% increase, sure. 10% to the skill that takes about 10% of whole BA measurement (given that you can use this skill fully) is a buff to compensate the nerf, right?

    400% damage total should be treated like 95% ied and you want to avoid going higher than this as best as you can, if you are hitting this number then stat and attack option for more damage will be better. (outside of crit damage which is a completely separate system)

    Let me break it down:
    ---basic gear
    130% from equipment sets & base
    110% from links (excluding AB link)
    70~95% from hyper stats
    50% from legion
    10% from title
    3% from familiar badges
    ---kanna specific
    20% from ninetails
    30% from mastery
    45% from barrier
    ---buffs/pots
    60% guild skills
    20% boss rush/sparkling red

    We're already at min. at 548%
    And this are just the very basic things, i excluded mentioning stuff like:
    Familiars themself could be an additional 90-120% boss in a party setting where ied usually isn't required due to party debuffs
    Housing buff (+15%)
    Events (+30%~55%),

    And still haven't included:
    Pitched Items (+10~30%)
    Weapon Flames (+6~21%)

    Last, this is very limiting in what weapon potentials that can be used, usually people want 9 lines of att/matt% but a lot settle with 1 line of boss, especially if the potential has 2 prime lines. That would be another 30% boss.
    Even with the lowest values of everything i mentioned and only 1 familiar, no boss on weapon, secondary, emblem, we're at 669% during an event.

    Issue is the developer comment was that this was gonna buff Kanna's solo damage, but it resulted in most getting weaker, the exception being newly unfunded Kanna. Losing both damage and party utility, when the class (together with Hayato and Beast Tamer) haven't been properly balanced since before Destiny. Also blatantly ignoring all the other issues the skill Spirit's Domain had, mismatched cooldown (196sec), skill disappearing upon dying, to name a few.

    Also, in the first place, you don't want to avoid going higher than 95% or 94% ied, you never say no to more as long it's not at the cost of something else (boss/att%). There's plenty of end game players with 97~98% at the cost of nothing else. At least of the classes with innate ied.
    Rods
  • AkuHitsujiAkuHitsuji
    Reactions: 790
    Posts: 16
    Member
    edited November 2023
    Sadly things have only gotten worse and our last hope, 6th job rebalancing our class a little, has been crushed by news coming from tespia. Please let someone who actually plays the class rebalance it and fire the person responsible for the current state of the class.
    Rods