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Problematic Bosses Improvements:

Member Stacona
Stacona
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Posts: 538
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edited March 5 in Suggestions, Feedback, and Requests
Way to many bosses in this game is not fun to fight to the point that doing certain bosses every week comes down to whether or not you can quickly kill the boss to avoid the suffering of the fight.

Very few bosses are actually fun to do outside of these parametres such as Slime, Gloom, Lucid, and new Lotus are enjoyable to fight without needing to nuke them down quickly - though new Lotus does have no chill moments which can be problematic.


Black Mage:
Delete This Boss!
Make a new Black Mage in its place.

Some truly awful sins of Black Mage:

1. Losing lives without actually dying.

2. Losing more than 1 life at a time.

3. The no chill bullet hell being constant.
(New Lotus does the bullet hell boss battle better since attacks have more clarity to them and you do not lose lives without dying and cannot lose 2 lives at the same time.)

4. Terrible visual clarity.

5. Terrible clarity of knowing what to do and where to go.

6. Learning and needing to know about a new mechanic in Phase 4 of the boss fight (knowing about Interact Key usage and knowing about white shield and black shield).

7. Having a different monster level for every phase of the boss fight and not being consistent with the same monster level for the entire boss fight.

8. It was not, is not, and never will be fun or enjoyable to fight!


Kaling / Limbo / Baldrix (upcoming level 290+ boss):
Remove aspects from every boss fight that has no regular lives and lose the mechanic of some weird gimmick you have to learn.

What I am saying here is just give these boss fights normal life counts and if you lose all your lives then you die out of the fight. I don't want to learn some weird mechanic and especially this far deep into end game!

Also, knowing what to do and/or the visual clarity of the fights are not good. Example: the attacks blending into the background/foreground and not being able to see properly if there is a floor or no floor is not good.

If someone cannot go into a boss fight knowing nothing about the fight and cannot figure out what is happening while within the fight, then you need to improve the fight drastically!


Verus Hilla:
Difficulty is too extreme.

What I would do to make this more enjoyable:

1. Cleansing becomes a combination of party and solo. Cleansing, regardless of the party size, will always function like you are playing it solo to determine whether or not an alter spawns in and only that person can see and cleanse that alter. The party aspect is that if ANY party member successfully cleanses their alter, then it applies that effect for everyone in the party.

A big problem to Verus Hilla is that solo/duo play is significantly easier than party play when it comes to longer fights.

2. The hands and red strings are doubled in size.
This means that there will be half the amount of hands and red strings as a result, but the importance of this is both make the gaps between the strings twice as a wide and the strings themselves are twice as thick making them easier to see and get hit by and make it less pixel perfect gameplay with more freedom to move around with the wider gaps between strings.

3. Normal Verus Hilla the damage of attacks reduce by roughly 50% and for Hard Verus Hilla by roughly 25%.

4. Reduce anti-healing from 100% to 80% so that classes where their main survivability is healing can still utilize their kit.

5. With anti-healing being reduced from 100%, potions can now be used all of the time with a cooldown of 10 seconds. Need to cleanse still to completely remove the anti-heal curse temporarily.


Will:
Needs several improvements to make this fight enjoyable for all stages of the game and drastic improvements to the boss fight's lack of visual and audio clarity, and know what to do in any given situation.

Improvements to makes for Will:
For Phase 1:

1. The "tornado" skill that glides across the room, reduce this damage by 80% (so it deals only 20% of the damage it currently does).
The problem with this skill is not it existing, but how cheap it feels and dying to it always feels like an unavoidable death that does not feel deserved.

2. Remove the text prompt for when the check-point "test" occurs and instead replace it with a very obvious audio queue that gets more and more intense to give the player a sense of urgency and act as a timer to get to the right dimension in time.
~ The other part is make the correct and incorrect dimension to be a lot more obvious visually. Example: Wrong dimension is black and red, with poisonous smoke everywhere, and death skulls of varying sizes while the correct dimension can be greens and/or yellows and looks more tranquil and safe.

3. Remove the segment where you must collect the yellow balls and wait in the yellow safe bubble. This is not difficult or adds to gameplay, it is just a waste of time, especially when you done this boss fight hundreds of times already, your character is super strong, and just want to kill the boss and get your mesos for the week from him.
~ Once test is passed, you immediately move on to the next segment of health and/or complete phase 1 entirely. No more waiting around do nothing, wasting time. The hardest part to phase 1 is not dying to boredom.

4. Remove moonlight from Phase 1, you can just teleport between dimensions as many times as you like.

For Phase 2:

1. Reduce anti-healing from 100% to 80% so that classes that rely on healing to survive can still do so and for everyone is able to realistically not die. Need to consume moonlight still to cleanse the anti-healing effect to gain full benefits from healing.
~ You can always use potions with a cooldown as a result.

2. The start of "test" to gain a very obvious audio queue that it began with a lot more obvious visual queue than it is now.

3. "Test" needs to be a lot more obvious that it is happening, what to do, and an appropriate amount of time for anyone to respond to the "test" mechanics. Every player, regardless of their experience and knowledge of the boss fight, needs to know what is happening and know what to do to succeed.

~ The strikes are more delayed and instead of going bop-boom, they go bop-bop-bop-boom giving more time for players to respond and stand at the correct location to not take damage.

~ Where to stand of where is safe and what is dangerous to become insanely obvious utilizing very clear and contrasting visual effects and colour usage. To the extent that safe areas got to almost look like that area will heal you and the dangerous areas looks like super threatening death.

For Phase 3:

1. Reversal debuff is removed entirely so that the player can properly position themselves in the correct location. This avoids the feeling of any cheap and undeserving deaths.

2. The stomp attacks that Will performs is reduced to one type only AND the attack will have a very obvious audio wind up queue of Will about to do his stomp attack with very obvious visual indicators of where to stand of what is safe and what is dangerous, both with visual effects and colour usage that contrast each other.


Damien:
Less problematic, more just boring and frustrating at the same time.

1. Reduce how much Damien moves around and remove entirely his ability to vanish from the fight and not be targetable.

2. Remove cleansing alter entirely, but there are still the stacks that can lead to death if you accumulate the maximum.
~ Cleansing is simplified into simply removing 1 stack at a time for not getting hit by a Damien attack for 8 seconds.

3. For Phase 2: The blue balls of annoyance reduce in size by about 50%, make them move 50% slower, and their final damage and healing penalties reduce from 90% to 50%.

4. For meteor shower attacks in phase 1 and 2, reduce the cone spread of these attacks by roughly 50% to make it easier to attack Damien while he is doing this attack. Other words, attack area is more narrow allowing you to get closer to Damien.

5. For Phase 2: When Damien does his stationary ground attack sending two rows of fireballs on both sides of him, make these balls move 50% slower for players can more realistically jump over them to dodge them rather than defaulting to either invincibility skills or running out of their maximum travel range all of the time.



Seren:
I'm always stunned.

1. For the super stun effect for when the metre becomes fully filled, remove the anti-heal mechanic entirely and allow the player to be healed normally while in this state.

2. Make the metre that causes the super stun effect to charge 50% slower, it takes twice as long to get stunned by this resulting in less of these super stuns.

3. Reduce the quantity of attacks going on all the time, it is to much going on constantly and only causes stress. The sheer quantity makes it ridiculously hard to realistically avoid these attacks for most classes.

4. Seren's dash attacks, increase the delay before she strikes / dashes by 200% and make the animation and visuals a lot more obvious for when she does this attack.

5. For Phase 2: During the sunset phase, reduce the anti-healing aspect of this phase to 50%.
~ Reduce the damage of all attacks during this phase by roughly 40%.

6. For Phase 2: For the shortest part and the shield part of this phase... What?
~ (What to do and not to do is not obvious or clear whatsoever. This needs to be remade entirely.)

7. For Phase 2: During all transition "test" periods, increase the time players have to get under the correct beam of sunlight by at least 100% or longer. This is currently way to fast giving players no room for error. In other words, play perfectly or die.


Darknell:

There is way to much stuff going on constantly and the problem gets exponentially worse the further into the fight it is.

I would have preferred if you removed at least 90% of the stuff going on, and kept the random meteors that fell down post visual clarity and colour upgrade change.
(The giant sword swipe attack can stay as is as well.)

This boss fight is a visual mess, has zero visual clarity, I have no clue what is happening and how I died, and only feels cheap, undeserved deaths, and pure frustration constantly.

Edit: I would make it where only one attack or summon can be play at a time. As the health bar goes down, instead of more stuff spawning in or more attacks going off, the summons or attacks become quicker and quicker, resulting in more frequent attack patterns, but the player only needs to worry about one thing at a time.

~ The return of the improved version of the random meteors probably would need to come back. The fight would be more enjoyable with one attack or summon at a time with random improved meteors than the current no meteors and a million things going on at the same time, feeling like constant cheap death.

Comments

  • Member RedRaven
    RedRaven
    Reactions: 1,315
    Posts: 303
    Member
    edited February 23
    i wont reply to bosses i haven't run but i say this
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    V-Hilla
    point 1: the Altar being change to a lone player fine(groups tend to not cleanse for you when u need it)......so thats fine...HOWEVER....you using the altar should NOT apply to other teamates(that would make the fight a complete joke)

    ponit 2
    Hands doubled in size no
    String doubled in size no
    maybe 1 less string per hand(its honestly a bit tight)...and i say maybe...i dont think its completly needed
    like maybe spawn 1-2 hands with 1 less string but leave the other hands the same...thats my take on it

    point 3: no

    point 4&5: potions only working at 20% of their effectiveness with a 20 seconds cooldown maybe(heal fam help a lot already)
    if was KMS maybe 10 sec cooldown(i think they dont have heal fams ?)
    and i'am just saying MAYBE, not entirely sure if this should come to pass....unfortunetly hard to gather many oppinions on the forum
    but healing skill from bishop working ? nope nope nope nope.....that would trivialize it)
    x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-

    Will
    Phase 1
    point 1: no
    point 2: text prompt stay, but an audio warning would not hurt
    point 3: pointless
    point 4: idk...i got shafted twice for teleporting too much between dimension(when he's near test phase
    while the random move over is fine to stay, i'd like not having a cooldown for moving between dimension often when both his health bar are near test time
    like only allow unlimited for 5 sec when test is about to start(aka after the prompt that tell you to move to the correct dimension)
    the reason they're limiting cross-over is so that u can't abuse dodge his red tornado with it

    Phase 2
    point 1: no
    point 2: audio warning fine
    point 3: there are guides on youtube, although i would not be againts a guide in-game regarding the cracks mechanic(PRE-FIGHT)
    reading mid-fight is risky

    Phase 3
    Point 1: no, however the skill lock disabling flash jump/teleport is rather cheap when white eyes come up
    reversal itself is alright for his P3....very low chance to screw you over in Will P3..the skill lock is the only problematic

    Point 2: no, learn the mechanics
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    Damien
    point 1-2-5 no
    point 3: only for the balls size/speed reduction, dont touch the dps/heal nerf from it..... OR revamp
    point 4: no...OR Revamp( i could imagine Damien teleporting to either top right/top left of the map and then start bombarbing you of meteors forcing you to run far right//far left to live..then teleport down and hurl a giant meteor toward ya horizontally that u gotta dodge by timing an up jump perfectly

    anyway, overall for Damien i'd rather a complete revamp, the fight is boring and obnoxious
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    Darknell

    ..........still learning him
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    Black Mage & Grandis boss...... never done them so i ain't going to comment

    but as usual....you take it way too far with most of it...you may as well ask NX to get a "Flex" mode like on WoW where you can do strongly nerfed bosses fights but get rewarded with downgraded versions gear that highter difficulty would grant(like 25% less stats than the real stuff)
  • Member Stacona
    Stacona
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    edited February 24
    RedRaven wrote: »

    The game needs to open up to more players. Right now, bossing is way to much of a niche and it grows tiring when it is too try hard every week.

    I am trying to making bossing more fun and enjoyable for more people will want to do bosses.
    Two aspects:
    1. Improve the experience for certain bosses.
    2. Make supports a lot stronger to properly deliver on that support fantasy of properly helping others out in a meaningful way.
    ~ Support aspect both makes the support players happy and expands this audience further, while also helping more people get into bossing by acting as a handicap tool for those that can't "get good".

    I played Maple for a long time and a ton of different games of different genres, seeing players of a lot of different playstyles. What you find as very easy, easy, and moderate difficulty is going to be very hard, extremely hard, and impossible for the vast majourity of players.

    Plus there is the week to week grind. People burst out boss fights because they DO NOT want to deal with the boss mechanics, which means to tone back the bind and burst meta is not to nerf it directly, but rather make the boss fights more enjoyable to play so people actually want to do longer runs and play out the boss mechanics.


    And good game design is making everything self contained.

    If you need outside sources to help you learn and deal with the game, the game is poorly designed and needs to be improved and the goal should be to make all outside sources completely irrelevant since the player can figure out how to do everything within the game itself.
  • Member Noscible
    Noscible
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    edited February 25
    Story mode boss fight is so pointless right now because it doesn't even showcase all the mechanics of real fights. Most players also kill the boss too fast to even experience the mechanics and are left clueless for the actual fight. If they incorporated teaching the mechanics of bosses into story mode, then people would actually understand the fight without an external guide.
  • Member Stacona
    Stacona
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    Posts: 538
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    edited February 25
    Noscible wrote: »
    Story mode boss fight is so pointless right now because it doesn't even showcase all the mechanics of real fights. Most players also kill the boss too fast to even experience the mechanics and are left clueless for the actual fight. If they incorporated teaching the mechanics of bosses into story mode, then people would actually understand the fight without an external guide.

    Two things on this:

    1. The actual boss fights need to tone down and/or redesigned to be more unenjoyable to play, especially since most of these bosses are no where near end game anymore so they no longer need to hold back players with extreme difficulty.

    Better game design for these bosses is needed, visual clarity and better clarity in knowing what to do in doing the boss completely blind.

    Nintendo would get people that never heard of a video game before to get their feedback on games, say nothing to them, and see if those people can figure out what is going on and what to do. The good game design will allow all players to figure things out completely blind without anything telling them what to do (so text prompts trying to tell you what to do to beat a mechanic = very bad and lazy game design that is also ineffective since people won't be reading things in high intense moment like a boss fight anyways... and Maplers never read their skills and story segments to begin with).

    Text prompts also remove the satisfaction on the player to figure things out for themselves. But designing things to be more obvious of what to do does not and removes frustrations of not knowing what to do.

    Example of this is in Portal 2 of shining a light against one of the white walls you can place portals on. The game never panned the screen over to what to do or told the player what to do with dialogue and/or text, but the player was able to still figure out the puzzle for themselves with a good game design aspect of directing the player of where to go and what to do, without telling the player anything or taking control away from the player.

    2. Yes, the story bosses should be updated to match the mechanics of the real boss fight. If people have issues to get through the story bosses after this change, then the boss fight was designed poorly to begin with.