Nexon is it so hard to ban hackers / spammers???

Ambiv · December 2016

mork said:

Neospector said:

Sam016 said:
http://forums.maplestory.nexon.net/discussion/6363/code-of-conduct#latest

I like how it says we can't report hackers on forums now
You have never been able to. When the code of conduct was moved over, it missed the naming-shaming rule, although it was still on the books (I have enforced and reiterated it several times). The subreddit does not allow it either (they refer to it as "witch-hunting").

We do not allow it because people have, frankly, lied and faked evidence to get people banned. Moreover, we have official channels to report botters, and the forums are not that place. Accusing someone of hacking/scamming/harassment is a big claim, and wildly open to abuse, misunderstandings, and other problems.

You're free to complain about bots, but naming specific players is not allowed.
because people lied and faked evidence to get people banned means the legit people who report them cant do so no more ?
and isn't it your job / GM's to find out who's lying and faking things ???????????????????? and deal with them accordingly
if i wanted to witch hunt id play a different game, this game i played all my life and never seen so many hackers / botters before and ive reported many hackers and botters before so i know what i'm talking about i'm pretty sure it don't take a genius to watch a video and see who is actually hacking/botting specially if its your job to know these things i'm sure you can tell fake from real and if you not 100% sure then that's why GMs investigate ?

Yes, and in case @Neospector has no idea who Sam016 is, he's one of the most well-known AND RESPECTED players in EMS (more well known than some Lv250s), who has helped numerous people.

Of course you can lie and fake evidence (assume worst thing happen, a respectable reporter got hacked and impersonated), but is supervisor too stupid to figure out the truth? Photoshop might be easy, video editing, especially on a professional level is not. Lie or not, can't GM do his / her job INVESTIGATING the case promptly using whatever SMART method he/she has? stalk the reported hackers, identify, problem solved, not even need to touch database for analysis.

Maybe some of your GMS people got institutionalised and numbed by the paradigm of GMS policy and suck it up?
As long as large amount of conscious people rise up, it can shake the management team. It happened before in other company's forum.

Common sense, some GMs in old EMS did a good job, or some student interns did even better, because they are ENTHUSIASTIC, PASSIONATE about Maple Story, they CARE about the game, instead of "some" (not all) people who would not give a damn because he/she is just make a living of it. How many of you would give a damn if many players suffered in a game you don't care , while you just need to follow standard procedures and receive your pay-check every month with minimum effort.

I'm sure if Nexon NA get some good EMS GM back for good, it well be efficient enough. There shouldn't be any budget issue at all as many would even volunteer to do a proper job. Better game environment, more players, people stay happily, and donate Nexon money more willingly, win-win.

Aramy · December 2016

is rly sad to see how thing are going since the merge..
yes night there even was advertiser buying smegas service for 100/110m... and nothing was done
till when this will keep going, how many extra victims will have?
really miss alot ems at least was rare to see botters and with last gm's even was rare to see advertisers

since merge wat we won:
- tons of botters that stay botting and advertising for weeks
- ''2º service'' since luna usually was forgotten when x2 exp env's started

Neospector · December 2016

Ambiv said:

Yes, and in case @Neospector has no idea who Sam016 is, he's one of the most well-known AND RESPECTED players in EMS (more well known than some Lv250s), who has helped numerous people.

Of course you can lie and fake evidence (assume worst thing happen, a respectable reporter got hacked and impersonated), but is supervisor too stupid to figure out the truth? Photoshop might be easy, video editing, especially on a professional level is not. Lie or not, can't GM do his / her job INVESTIGATING the case promptly using whatever SMART method he/she has? stalk the reported hackers, identify, problem solved, not even need to touch database for analysis.

Maybe some of your GMS people got institutionalised and numbed by the paradigm of GMS policy and suck it up?
As long as large amount of conscious people rise up, it can shake the management team. It happened before in other company's forum.

Common sense, some GMs in old EMS did a good job, or some student interns did even better, because they are ENTHUSIASTIC, PASSIONATE about Maple Story, they CARE about the game, instead of "some" (not all) people who would not give a damn because he/she is just make a living of it. How many of you would give a damn if many players suffered in a game you don't care , while you just need to follow standard procedures and receive your pay-check every month with minimum effort.

I'm sure if Nexon NA get some good EMS GM back for good, it well be efficient enough. There shouldn't be any budget issue at all as many would even volunteer to do a proper job. Better game environment, more players, people stay happily, and donate Nexon money more willingly, win-win.

I frankly don't care if he's the lovechild of Kim Kardashian and Ryan Reynolds. Rules are rules.
We have these rules not just because of fake evidence, but because the whole concept in of itself is toxic and detrimental to the community. On top of lying to get people banned, the whole practice encourages shaming (hence the name of the phrase) and ruining people's reputation, deserved or not.
KoottaHigure said it better on the subreddit in this post.

It became quickly obvious that most of the community could not handle discussing these issues without bringing in unnecessary drama. In order to avoid it I believe it is best we do not allow these type of discussions anymore.
This does not mean we will prohibit all discussion about hackers and bots. Openly discussing about the amount of hackers or botters the game has is fine. It is when certain groups, or people, are brought up that we have an issue.

Secondly, there are ways to fake video evidence easily. They involve rule-breaking issues so explaining how to do them here is also a no-no, but yes, it is very easy.

There is a reason vigilantism is illegal in most parts of the civilized world; even if you're thoroughly convinced the person is guilty, it doesn't mean you're right in lynching them. Catching criminals is a job for the police, and you should report information to them (I.E. file a ticket), not gossip with your neighbors (I.E. post on the forums).

It might also interest you to know that I'm a forum mod, not a GM.

We do not allow naming-shaming on the forums. Please follow the rules.

Ambiv · December 2016

Whether you care or not, I'm merely stating the fact that his report is, verified by numerous old players (over doznes), true (many tracked the named player down to witness).

The point is: if GM is not doing his/her job properly or there's some fishy business, you and I both know it. This will only get worse as more and more players witness the malicious cycle currently GMS has. If any GM worry about lying, is it really life-challenging to simply track the most reported high profile player down and verify it? Nope?

If Nexon is in staff shortage, they should let us know and issue some statement so we can all understand the situation. (working hard on 5th job is not GM's job is it?)

The rules will only be truly respected if the company is doing their job properly, otherwise why do you think people flood this thread to vent their frustration? (most of them are NOT drama queen). If official report channels are all ineffective (as stated by many above), what do you suggest we do? suck it up or travel to Nexon HQ to protest? More people will lose motivation to charge NX, lose for Nexon.

Yes, catching criminals is a job for the police, but when police is corrupt or bureaucratic (like in many countries, even in UK people laugh at the justice system), people went on street to demonstrate and some would succumb to pressure from the public to rectify their problem.

Ofc, there other other ways people tried in the past that might be effective, such as contact higher management team via Linkedin and facebook (professionally), but those are last resort.

DeputyDerpy · December 2016

I'm just going to nicely and bluntly say that:
They have lives. Most of the time, Nexon get massive emails/tickets whether its majorly important or not. They have to respond to every single one to help players out. Yes, they're all categorized in sections of how you Submit a Ticket but you have to understand that even so, it's still a lot of work. Especially since that's not also their priority role, there's other roles they have to do as well. It won't be forgotten, just let it take time. They have live chat as well, so if you're unsure about your report and you don't want to submit another one; just talk to them whenever the operating hours opens. I submitted a report on hacker that took at most 2 months, but I don't mind, at least they did it. That's what counts. Yes, quality is important. But depending on how many people are helping Nexon, it may vary. It could be 10 people with 10000000 tickets to work on. You just got to give them a break, for god sakes, they developed the game for you to play, while you sit on your butt all day to just play and chat. I apologize if that part was rude, but that's the truth. Unless you have a job and understand how this is like, then good, you should be able to know how tough this can be. As for evidence, usually, if its just scams/advertisement, screenshot is a good option. But like hacks and botting, it's best to use recording. It'll be helpful to see what is actually happening. But to end this all, give them a break. Be more patience. You're like a whiny baby asking for their milk/breast milk.

I apologize once again if this offended anyone, but as I said I'm just being blunt.

Ambiv · December 2016

DeputyDerpy said:
I'm just going to nicely and bluntly say that:
They have lives. Most of the time, Nexon get massive emails/tickets whether its majorly important or not. They have to respond to every single one to help players out. Yes, they're all categorized in sections of how you Submit a Ticket but you have to understand that even so, it's still a lot of work. Especially since that's not also their priority role, there's other roles they have to do as well. It won't be forgotten, just let it take time. They have live chat as well, so if you're unsure about your report and you don't want to submit another one; just talk to them whenever the operating hours opens. I submitted a report on hacker that took at most 2 months, but I don't mind, at least they did it. That's what counts. Yes, quality is important. But depending on how many people are helping Nexon, it may vary. It could be 10 people with 10000000 tickets to work on. You just got to give them a break, for god sakes, they developed the game for you to play, while you sit on your butt all day to just play and chat. I apologize if that part was rude, but that's the truth. Unless you have a job and understand how this is like, then good, you should be able to know how tough this can be. As for evidence, usually, if its just scams/advertisement, screenshot is a good option. But like hacks and botting, it's best to use recording. It'll be helpful to see what is actually happening. But to end this all, give them a break. Be more patience. You're like a whiny baby asking for their milk/breast milk.

I apologize once again if this offended anyone, but as I said I'm just being blunt.

Seems you never read any post in this thread, Screenshot / Recording IS NOT WORKING, ever SINCE the merge (the born of LUNA)

If you don't know, a lot of players playing maple are not babies, they are professionals, 30% players in our guild are engineers, I myself is a product designer.

You need to be specific about what people are complaining and see how efficient the current system is.
I really appreciated Nexon developers staff but the whole issue being discussed here is game policing, that is only part of service department of your 100000000 ticket (separated from billing, bug, loss etc.).

Judging by the prevalent spammer/hackers and none seems to be deterred/banned, the system has major flaw, you gonna make staff more stressed due to backlogs, if nothing is being changed.

If service team are truly tired, it means the system is not effective, they can introduce better / swift ban hammer.
If there's total shortage of GM, suggest recruit more GOOD ones.
If GM's team is ineffective, re-structure the management procedure.

For example, simplest matter: anytime you enter henesys/fm tons of meso seller are present.
Technically how difficult is to have any one patrolling those (random time) and hit ban button? Normal players can do it in matter of seconds.
but of course, if Nexon NA is totally fine with Meso selling now, we can all shut up

Peep · December 2016

DeputyDerpy said:
I'm just going to nicely and bluntly say that:
They have lives. Most of the time, Nexon get massive emails/tickets whether its majorly important or not. They have to respond to every single one to help players out. Yes, they're all categorized in sections of how you Submit a Ticket but you have to understand that even so, it's still a lot of work. Especially since that's not also their priority role, there's other roles they have to do as well. It won't be forgotten, just let it take time. They have live chat as well, so if you're unsure about your report and you don't want to submit another one; just talk to them whenever the operating hours opens. I submitted a report on hacker that took at most 2 months, but I don't mind, at least they did it. That's what counts. Yes, quality is important. But depending on how many people are helping Nexon, it may vary. It could be 10 people with 10000000 tickets to work on. You just got to give them a break, for god sakes, they developed the game for you to play, while you sit on your butt all day to just play and chat. I apologize if that part was rude, but that's the truth. Unless you have a job and understand how this is like, then good, you should be able to know how tough this can be. As for evidence, usually, if its just scams/advertisement, screenshot is a good option. But like hacks and botting, it's best to use recording. It'll be helpful to see what is actually happening. But to end this all, give them a break. Be more patience. You're like a whiny baby asking for their milk/breast milk.

I apologize once again if this offended anyone, but as I said I'm just being blunt.

I'm sorry but most of us have been patient enough. You'd hope they'd have managed their team accordingly so they have people answering tickets and being available for live chat as well as people going out an actually investigating removing the reported players. I don't know exactly what kind of process they currently have in place but it's simply too slow. There are people hitting 250 after botting for months and being allowed to bot because they were not investigated fast enough. After 250 it's over. Unless they decide to be stupid and hack we have 0 chance (even if they decided to hack or bot in the past) to get them banned.

It's like someone said in a previous thread. All it takes is 1 GM going out actively patrolling for their work period. Just one and I assure you you'd see an incredible drop in botting at least from players. They shouldn't even bother with low level bots. Just get rid of the high lvl ones as they make way more meso and higher leveled macro botters.

Elyscent · December 2016

Ambiv said:

DeputyDerpy said:
I'm just going to nicely and bluntly say that:
They have lives. Most of the time, Nexon get massive emails/tickets whether its majorly important or not. They have to respond to every single one to help players out. Yes, they're all categorized in sections of how you Submit a Ticket but you have to understand that even so, it's still a lot of work. Especially since that's not also their priority role, there's other roles they have to do as well. It won't be forgotten, just let it take time. They have live chat as well, so if you're unsure about your report and you don't want to submit another one; just talk to them whenever the operating hours opens. I submitted a report on hacker that took at most 2 months, but I don't mind, at least they did it. That's what counts. Yes, quality is important. But depending on how many people are helping Nexon, it may vary. It could be 10 people with 10000000 tickets to work on. You just got to give them a break, for god sakes, they developed the game for you to play, while you sit on your butt all day to just play and chat. I apologize if that part was rude, but that's the truth. Unless you have a job and understand how this is like, then good, you should be able to know how tough this can be. As for evidence, usually, if its just scams/advertisement, screenshot is a good option. But like hacks and botting, it's best to use recording. It'll be helpful to see what is actually happening. But to end this all, give them a break. Be more patience. You're like a whiny baby asking for their milk/breast milk.

I apologize once again if this offended anyone, but as I said I'm just being blunt.
Seems you never read any post in this thread, Screenshot / Recording IS NOT WORKING, ever SINCE the merge (the born of LUNA)

If you don't know, a lot of players playing maple are not babies, they are professionals, 30% players in our guild are engineers, I myself is a product designer.

You need to be specific about what people are complaining and see how efficient the current system is.
I really appreciated Nexon developers staff but the whole issue being discussed here is game policing, that is only part of service department of your 100000000 ticket (separated from billing, bug, loss etc.).

Judging by the prevalent spammer/hackers and none seems to be deterred/banned, the system has major flaw, you gonna make staff more stressed due to backlogs, if nothing is being changed.

If service team are truly tired, it means the system is not effective, they can introduce better / swift ban hammer.
If there's total shortage of GM, suggest recruit more GOOD ones.
If GM's team is ineffective, re-structure the management procedure.

For example, simplest matter: anytime you enter henesys/fm tons of meso seller are present.
Technically how difficult is to have any one patrolling those (random time) and hit ban button? Normal players can do it in matter of seconds.
but of course, if Nexon NA is totally fine with Meso selling now, we can all shut up

+1, @DeputyDerpy please read the posts and think before talking out loud and accusing people for being crybabies. There have been tons of issues that haven't been dealt with ever since the merge a month ago. Members of Demonics have been actively reporting, submitting tickets and even posted videos about the botters that are rising rapidly in the level rankings, yet we don't see them getting banned. So stop ass-licking Nexon please as if they really cared about the game, if they DID they would've banned these botters long time ago instead of letting them reach such a high level and make billions of mesos out of botting.

DeputyDerpy · December 2016

Elyscent said:

Ambiv said:

DeputyDerpy said:
I'm just going to nicely and bluntly say that:
They have lives. Most of the time, Nexon get massive emails/tickets whether its majorly important or not. They have to respond to every single one to help players out. Yes, they're all categorized in sections of how you Submit a Ticket but you have to understand that even so, it's still a lot of work. Especially since that's not also their priority role, there's other roles they have to do as well. It won't be forgotten, just let it take time. They have live chat as well, so if you're unsure about your report and you don't want to submit another one; just talk to them whenever the operating hours opens. I submitted a report on hacker that took at most 2 months, but I don't mind, at least they did it. That's what counts. Yes, quality is important. But depending on how many people are helping Nexon, it may vary. It could be 10 people with 10000000 tickets to work on. You just got to give them a break, for god sakes, they developed the game for you to play, while you sit on your butt all day to just play and chat. I apologize if that part was rude, but that's the truth. Unless you have a job and understand how this is like, then good, you should be able to know how tough this can be. As for evidence, usually, if its just scams/advertisement, screenshot is a good option. But like hacks and botting, it's best to use recording. It'll be helpful to see what is actually happening. But to end this all, give them a break. Be more patience. You're like a whiny baby asking for their milk/breast milk.

I apologize once again if this offended anyone, but as I said I'm just being blunt.
Seems you never read any post in this thread, Screenshot / Recording IS NOT WORKING, ever SINCE the merge (the born of LUNA)

If you don't know, a lot of players playing maple are not babies, they are professionals, 30% players in our guild are engineers, I myself is a product designer.

You need to be specific about what people are complaining and see how efficient the current system is.
I really appreciated Nexon developers staff but the whole issue being discussed here is game policing, that is only part of service department of your 100000000 ticket (separated from billing, bug, loss etc.).

Judging by the prevalent spammer/hackers and none seems to be deterred/banned, the system has major flaw, you gonna make staff more stressed due to backlogs, if nothing is being changed.

If service team are truly tired, it means the system is not effective, they can introduce better / swift ban hammer.
If there's total shortage of GM, suggest recruit more GOOD ones.
If GM's team is ineffective, re-structure the management procedure.

For example, simplest matter: anytime you enter henesys/fm tons of meso seller are present.
Technically how difficult is to have any one patrolling those (random time) and hit ban button? Normal players can do it in matter of seconds.
but of course, if Nexon NA is totally fine with Meso selling now, we can all shut up

+1, @DeputyDerpy please read the posts and think before talking out loud and accusing people for being crybabies. There have been tons of issues that haven't been dealt with ever since the merge a month ago. Members of Demonics have been actively reporting, submitting tickets and even posted videos about the botters that are rising rapidly in the level rankings, yet we don't see them getting banned. So stop ass-licking Nexon please as if they really cared about the game, if they DID they would've banned these botters long time ago instead of letting them reach such a high level and make billions of mesos out of botting.

LOL. Oh my, you guys are silly. I didn't even read a single post any of you made except the OP itself. It's my own opinion against how you all pursue on others, who work their best to get the best results. It may not seem the greatest for most of you, but at least its something for others. I'm not ass-licking Nexon, haha. I am like this to every single community, whether profit or non-profit, whether it's a gaming community or a tv/drama/anime/manga forum. It's logic that you should at least show respect to those who work hard. It's common knowledge, I wouldn't think you or anyone would understand it.

Ambiv · December 2016

@DeputyDerpy
Respect is earned, not granted.
Some staff are respectable but doesn't means all others are.
And by your tone, obviously you are a troll, so it's pointless to treat you seriously.
Since you never read any other's comment before replying, you are not getting any respect here.

DeputyDerpy · December 2016

@ambiv
I'm a troll? You are getting defensive over my opinions because I guess I'm sucking up to the Nexon staff because of what I said. Yes, I understand respect is earned, but even so, just calling them out right off the bat because of a specific person have no patience toward a group of staff because they're slow. I laughed because I clearly said it was my opinion and it's obviously is and I apologized two times. But yeah, I'm definitely a troll.

Kylehell007 · December 2016

Ambiv said:
@DeputyDerpy
Respect is earned, not granted.
Some staff are respectable but doesn't means all others are.
And by your tone, obviously you are a troll, so it's pointless to treat you seriously.
Since you never read any other's comment before replying, you are not getting any respect here.

Well respect shouldn't be brought up at all, really. It's not really relevant to that in any way. Being upset at a staff or company for not taking action against people working against it when mainly your concern is for the betterment of the game, shouldn't be criticized or looked down upon by neither the company or the players/users of product. And that argument kind of negates itself in the manner that its technically being disrespectful to US, ignoring in-game reports and report forums.

On the topic relating to OP moreover, your frustration is felt believe me, and it's basically the reason for the way the game economy has been molded over the past decade+, contributes to lag, map crashes, channel crashes, major arguments, etc.. The argument to nexon has never really changed though. we have all made great efforts over the years to combat these invaders before the damage has been done to a full impact, but regardless of our help/assistance/report amount(s), nothing has really changed or truly made a huge difference sadly. I haven't reported anyone in the like 2-3 months I've been back after about a 7 months break because I find it effortless and a waste or time now. People somehow always come back anyway lol. and definitely not worth hunting people down and ruining your day and wasting your free time over.

Ambiv · December 2016

Slow could mean several things:

1: The person who has too much to do, which slows him down
2: The person who need a lot of approvals to do certain things
3: Nothing at all is being done (in this case its no longer slow, it's stall)

It's surprising for many EMS players to see that many GMS player got institutionalised to such Nexon NA company culture (is it?)

At least in old GMS forum moderator will pass feedback/opinion post to Dev/GM every week.
If GMS forum is totally for decoration now (as CM no longer exist) We should seek other channel for solutions instead of wasting time debating.

Anyway, IMO what shall be done if Nexon NA is a responsible company that would comfort lots of customers:

- Apology for rampant botting / hacking environment for legal players ( hopefully, it's not asking too much is it? )
- Issue a statement explaining current situation in terms of policing ( why there is few or no GM doing anything, why is report being delayed beyond imagination, Nexon didn't fire a lot of people huh? )
- Make a schedule about how things could be resolved. (recruit a CM, deploy responsible GM, or hire volunteer GM with plenty in-game knowledge, etc.)

As a PR job this shouldn't be rocket science.

@Kylehell007
Are you implying that most old GMS players all suck it up now? or there is no hope, we are all dreaming?

Kylehell007 · December 2016

Ambiv said:
Slow could mean several things:

1: The person who has too much to do, which slows him down
2: The person who need a lot of approvals to do certain things
3: Nothing at all is being done (in this case its no longer slow, it's stall)

It's surprising for many EMS players to see that many GMS player got institutionalised to such Nexon NA company culture (is it?)

At least in old GMS forum moderator will pass feedback/opinion post to Dev/GM every week.
If GMS forum is totally for decoration now (as CM no longer exist) We should seek other channel for solutions instead of wasting time debating.

Anyway, IMO what shall be done if Nexon NA is a responsible company that would comfort lots of customers:

- Apology for rampant botting / hacking environment for legal players ( hopefully, it's not asking too much is it? )
- Issue a statement explaining current situation in terms of policing ( why there is few or no GM doing anything, why is report being delayed beyond imagination )
- Make a schedule about how things could be resolved. (recruit a CM, deploy responsible GM, or hire volunteer GM with plenty in-game knowledge, etc.)

As a PR job this shouldn't be rocket science.

@Kylehell007
Are you implying that most old GMS players all suck it up now? or there is no hope, we are all dreaming?

I'm not saying give up 100% like I did, that is completely on you. I just tried too hard in the past and ended up getting up no where in the end sadly. I also feel bad for new EU players because I feel their GM staff was a little more like the old GMS staff who used to occasionally patrol maps/hunting grounds/FM, but now I feel like the only time they do or will take action is in case of a serious dupe/exploit which involves illicit item movement on a huge player basis. Even the "GM events" are completely robot automated, except for the rare "play omok with a gm or w/e". Sadly I lost a bit of hope seeing the prices of mesos go from a consistent like 1:16 a few years back and nx selling 1:40 (not advocating the trade of either just making a point) and now its 1:3/ 1:400..

MakazeKiba · December 2016

Hang on, why are you guys arguing over PR problems? Isn't this thread supposed to be an anti-botter think tank? Nexon's PR has alot to be desired, yes, but that's a post for another thread (which may end up locked/sent to rants and raves) I remember suggesting a few measures, such as SMS verification as the unique ID for accounts from implementation forward, with the older accounts able to access the game, but cannot trade items until they set up SMS on their account. Harsh, yes, but I think it would kill the farmers off for longer than a couple of days.

Ambiv · December 2016

Yeah right.. speaking about PR (as related to botting) , from what's in the tonight stream when one of the spammed topic by players are botters.

The Product Manager claiming Nexon have GMs patrolling all over the games 24/7 so we should not worry, I don't why the voice is shaking. You can imagine what happened in the chat box on the right of your screen.

If production manager saying they read the forum coz they became aware of the "Fred bug" from here, one'd hope they give some response. But judging by how they touched the issue lightly in the stream, seems many GMS players above are right.

Really hope anyone with good video editing skills combine the various footage of rampant botter/hackers all over the channels and combine with 24/7 GM inspection claim in the stream with a face palm, maybe then we can get a response from Nexon.

Okhura · December 2016

Ambiv said:
Really hope anyone with good video editing skills combine the various footage of rampant botter/hackers all over the channels and combine with 24/7 GM inspection claim in the stream with a face palm, maybe then we can get a response from Nexon.

Well I do have a lot of footage of hackers I have been compiling from just today to report, I could consider it.

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