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Drop Rate changes KMS patch 1.2.275

MonsterLifeMonsterLife
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edited April 2017 in Suggestions, Feedback, and Requests
Would you like to see this patch come through into GMS? drop rate changes have been made in KMS to be similar to PDR. For Example it follows a similar formula where its 100-your pdr = a number, and you gain a percentage of that number based off your %, so if u had no pdr 100-0(cause no pdr)=100 x 0.3(30% pdr)=30, meaning you would gain 30% pdr. The changes that are made on the KMS's current patch is the same except with drop rate and not pdr. Where its not really possible to get 100% drop rate anymore and its no longer additive. Meaning 20% + 20% item drop rate =/= 40% drop rate, its 100-0=100 x 0.2=20% drop and then 100-20=80 x 0.2 = 0.16+20% from earlier so 36% in total. For the most part if you're a player that can only have like 1 or 2 drop rate items, this wouldnt effect you too much. However i think majority of players now have 5 or more drop rate items that are 20% or is able to get at least the additive 100% drop rate easily. e.g. big spider + 20% IA item drop rate + 1 drop rate item or even just using a normal 2x drop rate use items like easter egg buff or lucky winter. So pretty much all of the players that have more than 100% would end up in reality about 60% or so drop rate. But you would definitely not be over 100 any longer.

Also as an added suggestion, would it be possible if there was a big enough playerbase that did not want this change that GMS would not get this update?

Edit: To those people that think what im saying is "PDR=new drop rate" thats not what im saying. I'm saying the new drop rate formula is SIMILAR to PDR and it can be somewhat seen in the averages in nodestone/hr before and after patch. An example of this are players who have 200% drop rate 10x20%= like around 90%? drop rate (What i think since i think its calculated similar to PDR) and players who have more than 200% are getting around the same averages who have 200%. This CLEARLY shows that the drop rate formula is no longer additive as it was before for CERTAIN. Unless you can somehow think of a formula that matches the results of players. Also i just want to make sure everyone understand that this is the drop rate of NODESTONE after it has been BUFFED. This has not included other items that players with drop rate benefit from such as scrolls/hammers/etc from elite bosses or cubes/shards from boss monsters or quest/event items from quest mobs or ETC drops such as spell essence/twisted times/cube frags/other items that are widely used by most players either for money or their intended purposes e.g. crafting. But because these items werent buffed, i'm sure you could imagine how bad the drop rate on these items will be after the update.
  1. Do you want this to come to GMS?51 votes
    1. yes
       8% (4 votes)
    2. no
       86% (44 votes)
    3. I dont care either way
       6% (3 votes)

Comments

  • CorruptingCorrupting
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    edited March 2017
    That's horrible...
  • YakudleYakudle
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    edited March 2017
    Corrupting wrote: »
    That's horrible...

    agree... this could destroy or fix the market and playerbase wow....
    hayman
  • thrakkesthrakkes
    Reactions: 2,135
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    edited March 2017
    I answered no to this question. BUT if Nexon can increase the base drop rate of Nodestones, Arcane Symbol, Droplets, ''Black Tokens from Kritias Invasion!!'', cubes, cubic blades, items from Elite Monsters and other stuffs more than double, then I won't be bothered that much. If you don't know Nexon, in KMS the base drop rate of cubes is higher than here in GMS.

    Off-topic: If this drop change is coming, then the end game bosses should be dropping equips again! As for Lucid, if droplets drop rate remains same, I highly suggest to reduce coin prices by half and decreasing the amount of droplets required to make one coin. And instead of waiting for another Black Mage commander coming out, I suggest to add in Lucid drop list the remaining equips (Hat, Shoulder Pad and Cape). Tell me guys if I forget 1 equip not mentionned and is not in Coin shop.
  • MonsterLifeMonsterLife
    Reactions: 570
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    Member
    edited March 2017
    thrakkes wrote: »
    I answered no to this question. BUT if Nexon can increase the base drop rate of Nodestones, Arcane Symbol, Droplets, ''Black Tokens from Kritias Invasion!!'', cubes, cubic blades, items from Elite Monsters and other stuffs more than double, then I won't be bothered that much. If you don't know Nexon, in KMS the base drop rate of cubes is higher than here in GMS.

    you letting you know, they've said they increased the drop rate of nodestones in the same patch that this update was made, and still MANY players grinded several hours as in experiment to see how bad the changes were, and pretty much all of them got significantly less, as in about less than half in some cases, player with over 200% didnt even get half..about a third only.
    AlexF wrote: »
    Would you like to see this patch come through into GMS? drop rate changes have been made in KMS to be similar to PDR. For Example it follows a similar formula where its 100-your pdr = a number, and you gain a percentage of that number based off your %, so if u had no pdr 100-0(cause no pdr)=100 x 0.3(30% pdr)=30, meaning you would gain 30% pdr. The changes that are made on the KMS's current patch is the same except with drop rate and not pdr. Where its not really possible to get 100% drop rate anymore and its no longer additive. Meaning 20% + 20% item drop rate =/= 40% drop rate, its 100-0=100 x 0.2=20% drop and then 100-20=80 x 0.2 = 0.16+20% from earlier so 36% in total. For the most part if you're a player that can only have like 1 or 2 drop rate items, this wouldnt effect you too much. However i think majority of players now have 5 or more drop rate items that are 20% or is able to get at least the additive 100% drop rate easily. e.g. big spider + 20% IA item drop rate + 1 drop rate item or even just using a normal 2x drop rate use items like easter egg buff or lucky winter. So pretty much all of the players that have more than 100% would end up in reality about 60% or so drop rate. But you would definitely not be over 100 any longer.

    Also as an added suggestion, would it be possible if there was a big enough playerbase that did not want this change that GMS would not get this update?

    Can you link the post or information that you found where it states it becomes a binomial expression? All it says is :
    "Item drop rate increasing effects will now be applied at the same time instead of being applied in a certain order based on the source’s type."

    Current Drop rate isn't applied evenly; gear is additive then multiplied by drop rate/coupon/cash shop. Familiars are another sourcing. This lead me to think they are making it easier to understand drop rate.

    PDR IS like this so that you can't reach 100% pdr. It was designed to make it so bosses would be harder. It would make no sense to do this to Drop.

    If we had PDR formula for Drop, it would mean we have 0 base drop? We have innate 100% drop, and then it builds from that. Using your logic, if we had 0 base, and get x2 cash shop card, we would have 100%.


    There is no link to where it become a binomial expression however if you have looked at the several posts of KMS players, all valid players and some whalers who have godly drop rate items reported their numbers in before/after the changes. And just because im so sure eventually SOMEONE will say, "well those are just made up numbers ,etc" Some of the players are streamers and were streaming for the entire time that they were doing this, therefore that data at least can not be made up. Base off the numbers they got and following the binomial expression, it matches reasonably well.

    However for the 0 base drop part, im not quite sure have "0" drop is what it should be. I think everyone has a base of 1 because if you had a base of zero then you wouldnt drops period..in this case i think its safer to say everyone has a base of 1 and it increases based off that, so following my example of having 2 20% items, you'd be at a 1.36x chance to receive item versus having 1x chance to receive an item. As far as the drop rate coupon/events go, im almost certain they just double what you have, or at least based off mine and many other players farming experience. That is what we concluded to be the effect of event/coupon. Similar i think its also in the same data post a few years back when they did lucky winter testing to see if it was 1.5x 1.6x or 2.0x drop rate. If it is not found in that post, you are always welcome to try your own experimentation. However is it worth pointing how that having a higher base drop rate would be easier to see than having a lower drop rate. e.g. double of someone who has 250+% drop rate would see clearly drops rates are been doubled when using a 2x NX coupon/2x event versus someone who has 20% drop rate.
  • thrakkesthrakkes
    Reactions: 2,135
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    edited March 2017
    thrakkes wrote: »
    I answered no to this question. BUT if Nexon can increase the base drop rate of Nodestones, Arcane Symbol, Droplets, ''Black Tokens from Kritias Invasion!!'', cubes, cubic blades, items from Elite Monsters and other stuffs more than double, then I won't be bothered that much. If you don't know Nexon, in KMS the base drop rate of cubes is higher than here in GMS.

    you letting you know, they've said they increased the drop rate of nodestones in the same patch that this update was made, and still MANY players grinded several hours as in experiment to see how bad the changes were, and pretty much all of them got significantly less, as in about less than half in some cases, player with over 200% didnt even get half..about a third only.

    Yes I have seen the drop rate increase on Nodestone, but I am pretty sure it's not increased like I suggested. Seeing what you mentionned at the end, I feel like KMS haven't considerably increased it. This is why I suggest this.
  • AznboiEAznboiE
    Reactions: 3,445
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    Member
    edited March 2017
    AlexF wrote: »
    We have innate 100% drop, and then it builds from that. Using your logic, if we had 0 base, and get x2 cash shop card, we would have 100%.

    0*2 = 0 (if this isn't mentioned earlier in the thread)
  • MonsterLifeMonsterLife
    Reactions: 570
    Posts: 40
    Member
    edited March 2017
    thrakkes wrote: »
    thrakkes wrote: »
    I answered no to this question. BUT if Nexon can increase the base drop rate of Nodestones, Arcane Symbol, Droplets, ''Black Tokens from Kritias Invasion!!'', cubes, cubic blades, items from Elite Monsters and other stuffs more than double, then I won't be bothered that much. If you don't know Nexon, in KMS the base drop rate of cubes is higher than here in GMS.

    you letting you know, they've said they increased the drop rate of nodestones in the same patch that this update was made, and still MANY players grinded several hours as in experiment to see how bad the changes were, and pretty much all of them got significantly less, as in about less than half in some cases, player with over 200% didnt even get half..about a third only.

    Yes I have seen the drop rate increase on Nodestone, but I am pretty sure it's not increased like I suggested. Seeing what you mentionned at the end, I feel like KMS haven't considerably increased it. This is why I suggest this.

    It's probably not 2x increase.. but there is probably an increase but its not significant enough and with the complete decrease of item drop rate, its difficult to say how much, but i'd say its pretty slim..like maybe 10% or so change to the rate it had before.

    @AleksF not sure if the tag works. As im not sure which links they'll actually let me post on the forums , you'll most likely have to find them yourself however its not too difficult. Just youtube it or check the known streamers from reddit/r/maplestory. For the forum post/data, you can go to to insonya assuming u can understand korean.
  • AznboiEAznboiE
    Reactions: 3,445
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    edited March 2017
    I don't understand what their new formula for drop is but what they need to do is just nerf 20% drop potentials to 10% or a generous 15% drop. The problem isn't with any other forms of additional drop rate other than drop rate gained by potentials because it's too easy for whales to come by. I don't see EXP being a potential line so I don't know why Drop should be one in the first place.
  • NeospectorNeospector
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    edited March 2017
    Most of the drop rate changes are pure speculation. I highly doubt it's the same as PDR or if it is, I certainly doubt that the cap on it is 100%. I'm assuming you mean 100% additional drop rate because 0% base drop rate makes absolutely no sense.

    Plus, there's the possibility that these calculations only apply to drop gear, in which case you do lose some drop rate but not nearly as much as what you're claiming.
    Since the drop rate changes don't really have an accurate way of measuring in-game, most of it is just a guessing game. I'd say give it a little more time and let KMS players work out the kinks in their calculations before we go jumping to any conclusions. Blindly trusting KMS players is what led us to the DPS chart scandal, after all.
  • MonsterLifeMonsterLife
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    edited March 2017
    Neospector wrote: »
    Most of the drop rate changes are pure speculation. I highly doubt it's the same as PDR or if it is, I certainly doubt that the cap on it is 100%. I'm assuming you mean 100% additional drop rate because 0% base drop rate makes absolutely no sense.

    Plus, there's the possibility that these calculations only apply to drop gear, in which case you do lose some drop rate but not nearly as much as what you're claiming.
    Since the drop rate changes don't really have an accurate way of measuring in-game, most of it is just a guessing game. I'd say give it a little more time and let KMS players work out the kinks in their calculations before we go jumping to any conclusions. Blindly trusting KMS players is what led us to the DPS chart scandal, after all.

    i mean i clarified later on a reply that it doesnt start at 0 because it wouldnt make sense becuase at 0 % drop rate you wouldnt get a single drop, but it starts off a basis 1 and u follow the formula and the number at the end is added to the 1 to finalize your drop rate. I do realize there is no accurate way and blindly trusting KMS player such and such.. HOWEVER there are people streaming on the KMS server of the changes that have happened, some of which had considerably high amount of drop rate. And the stream was on the entire time that they were hunting with every node/symbol drop shown which is why i believe that its not a scandal like the DPS chart one. I mean the evidence is there, you're always welcome to check the KMS streamers that have been testing it or even play on the KMS server yourself and give it a try.
  • haymanhayman
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    edited March 2017
    i might quit maple if nexon nerf my drop gear.
  • thrakkesthrakkes
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    edited March 2017
    AlexF wrote: »
    Neospector wrote: »
    Most of the drop rate changes are pure speculation. I highly doubt it's the same as PDR or if it is, I certainly doubt that the cap on it is 100%. I'm assuming you mean 100% additional drop rate because 0% base drop rate makes absolutely no sense.

    Plus, there's the possibility that these calculations only apply to drop gear, in which case you do lose some drop rate but not nearly as much as what you're claiming.
    Since the drop rate changes don't really have an accurate way of measuring in-game, most of it is just a guessing game. I'd say give it a little more time and let KMS players work out the kinks in their calculations before we go jumping to any conclusions. Blindly trusting KMS players is what led us to the DPS chart scandal, after all.

    This is exactly what I was saying, the math shown here just doesn't add up.

    he meant base drop of 1 like if we get a total of 71% drop from this formula, as example, its gonna be 1.71. So we multipliate the item drop rate by this factor. So an item with 10% chance of dropping, its gonna be 17.1% chance of drop. But the extra drop effect as a 2x Drop coupon, drop card or 2x event or all together multiplicative with the total %item drop. So with 2x drop coupon, drop card and 2x event, it would be 17.1% x 8.
  • StargethStargeth
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    edited April 2017
    No one really knows how the formula works, but the results that come out of it are pretty clear... There's a famous KMS Dark Knight YouTuber who posted a video of several node-farming results. He himself got 2 nodes after 2 hours (1 node per hour) with what would be 84% drop rate pre-patch when he was getting around 4-8 nodes PER HOUR beforehand. There was one hour of farming where he got ZERO nodestones, which he claims has NEVER happened to him with his gear. Some other results he mentioned in the video:

    -210% drop rate KMS player: 8-12 nodestones/hour before patch, 2-4 after
    -250% drop rate KMS player: 60-70 nodestones/5 hours before patch, a measly 28 nodestones/5 hours after
    -234% drop rate KMS player: 44-48 nodestones/4 hours before patch, a measly 21 nodestones/4 hours after
    -256% drop rate KMS player: 5 nodes/hour post patch (TERRIBLE)
    -210% drop rate (145% from gear) KMS player: 2 nodes/hour post-patch

    And low funded players (40% gear or less and/or just big spider) on KMS are also claiming that their rates were halved. It hurts EVERYONE.

    Mind you: KMS BUFFED the rates of Nodestones in addition to the drop rate changes in the same patch, so imagine how terrible things OTHER than nodestones are to farm in KMS right now!

    Please do NOT bring these changes to GMS, Nexon, or it will kill our already small playerbase!
  • PetalmagicPetalmagic
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    edited April 2017
    This could be the end of GMS...Drop rate is already a pain for me...
  • CatoooloooCatooolooo
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    edited April 2017
    I hope you guys and OP understand, we are getting these changes no matter if you like them or not.
  • MonsterLifeMonsterLife
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    edited April 2017
    Catooolooo wrote: »
    I hope you guys and OP understand, we are getting these changes no matter if you like them or not.

    I wouldnt say that, theres been several updates that KMS got and we didnt get and vice versa. Or even other servers that arent KMS. I think if enough people dont want this update, and its CLEARLY shown, they'll most likely think twice about actually letting the update through or not.
  • MonsterLifeMonsterLife
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    edited April 2017
    Stargeth wrote: »
    No one really knows how the formula works, but the results that come out of it are pretty clear... There's a famous KMS Dark Knight YouTuber who posted a video of several node-farming results. He himself got 2 nodes after 2 hours (1 node per hour) with what would be 84% drop rate pre-patch when he was getting around 4-8 nodes PER HOUR beforehand. There was one hour of farming where he got ZERO nodestones, which he claims has NEVER happened to him with his gear. Some other results he mentioned in the video:

    -210% drop rate KMS player: 8-12 nodestones/hour before patch, 2-4 after
    -250% drop rate KMS player: 60-70 nodestones/5 hours before patch, a measly 28 nodestones/5 hours after
    -234% drop rate KMS player: 44-48 nodestones/4 hours before patch, a measly 21 nodestones/4 hours after
    -256% drop rate KMS player: 5 nodes/hour post patch (TERRIBLE)
    -210% drop rate (145% from gear) KMS player: 2 nodes/hour post-patch

    And low funded players (40% gear or less and/or just big spider) on KMS are also claiming that their rates were halved. It hurts EVERYONE.

    Mind you: KMS BUFFED the rates of Nodestones in addition to the drop rate changes in the same patch, so imagine how terrible things OTHER than nodestones are to farm in KMS right now!

    Please do NOT bring these changes to GMS, Nexon, or it will kill our already small playerbase!

    Btw i think if enough players see this post and actually are willing to in the time/effort to vote on the poll + leave a reason why the update is bad, nexon will eventually see and REALLY think if they want to add this update into the game or not. But not many people check the forums so i think it might be difficult.
  • AKradianAKradian
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    edited April 2017
    Btw i think if enough players see this post and actually are willing to in the time/effort to vote on the poll + leave a reason why the update is bad, nexon will eventually see and REALLY think if they want to add this update into the game or not. But not many people check the forums so i think it might be difficult.

    You are delusional.
    Go look at the poll about UTC, and see how much heed Nexon America paid that. And that's not even a change dictated by Nexon Korea.

    The only way we won't get this is if the Korean players convince Nexon Korea to undo it.
  • StargethStargeth
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    edited April 2017
    AKradian wrote: »

    You are delusional.
    Go look at the poll about UTC, and see how much heed Nexon America paid that. And that's not even a change dictated by Nexon Korea.

    The only way we won't get this is if the Korean players convince Nexon Korea to undo it.

    I disagree. One of the most notable nerfs KMS got that we didn't was the nerfs to boss drops and EXP for popular bosses such as Horntail/etc. It's true that the polls about UTC did not sway Nexon away from changing the time zone, BUT that update was concerned with setting the game on a global clock because it is Maple Global, after all. Perhaps this was simply a priority for Maple Global services. Of course KMS would not have to have such a change nor need Nexon Korea's dictation for it.

    What I'm trying to say is that just because Nexon didn't listen to us for that particular change does not mean that they would not consider drastically hurting our player base. Honestly, do you think changing the game clock to fit UTC or making nodestones 2-3x (among soul shards, boss drops, and other quest/event items 5x) harder to obtain will kill our playerbase? I can't emphasize enough that the 2-3x difficulty multiplier for nodestones was in addition to nodestone drop rates being increased in the same patch yet there's still a net halving of rates.

    The fact that we did not get the boss nerfs kind of shows that Nexon understands that we aren't AS grindy-tolerant as the serious gamers in Korea, and perhaps with enough attention, Nexon will also not let this change go through.

    EDIT: Remember the Kishin nerfs? We got enough complaining going to convince Nexon to partially revert the nerf. Even IF the changes go through, we could still do the same for the nerfs to drop rate.

  • MonsterLifeMonsterLife
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    edited April 2017
    Stargeth wrote: »

    EDIT: Remember the Kishin nerfs? We got enough complaining going to convince Nexon to partially revert the nerf. Even IF the changes go through, we could still do the same for the nerfs to drop rate.

    well i think the issue with this one is like how do you "partially" un nerf drop rate. Like do just make it so the normal rate is several times more? orrr how would u change the formula to have a partial nerf