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Hayato's skills need some change

IvangoldIvangold
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edited May 2017 in Suggestions, Feedback, and Requests
So i was playing Hayato and i noticed how some of his skills aren't that usefull, or some things happens that are a bit absurd, like how his aura when in the boss stance can hit DR and kill you, and skill overwritting other, even tought it's a OP class for late game, he still have some old skills that could have some changes.

First it's annoying how some of his skills can trigger damage reflect even tought they are constatly activated, like the Quick Draw(begginer skill), that can kill you if this skil hits a boss with damage reflect on; or the Counterattack which is a toggle on-off skill that block attacks, but the problem is that it can also trigger damage reflect so you can't really use if a boss have(they just need to copy cannoer actual skill of blocking attacks...).

Other thing i saw that is really annoying, is how Iron Skin(4job buff) and God of Blades(hyper skill) doesn't stack with each other, they can overwrite each other, so if i use the hyper skill i lose the buff and need re-buff if i want to have the buff active after it, or if i acidentaly re-buff with the hyper on the hyper is gone, which is really frustrating.
I also think Iron Skin could have a passive or active defense with it, since Hayato scale with defense and the skill is a defensive one(something like 500 but still something).

Lastly i find weird how they made a skill that is useless for 99% or even 100% of the time, the skill named Battoujutsu Advance, you are suposed to use all your Battoujustsu skills to gain %attack, but it's useless since boost is really low(just 1% attack per skill you use, max 8%) and the duration is really low, unlike mercedes one that you can actually combo with the same skills to gain stacks and it actually give you a better boost, this skill should either be somewhat similar to merc, or i tought it could give points for the stance, giving 200 points with a 1/2mins of cool down, that way they wouldn't need to worry about combing and this also helps the new 5job skill that actually use those points.

Overall Hayato is good, just some skills are really old and need be uptated.
DiscordOfColors

Comments

  • SaekiSenpaiSaekiSenpai
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    edited May 2017
    Hayato needs to hit max damage caps at level 10, plz Nexon get your act together.
  • DiscordOfColorsDiscordOfColors
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    edited May 2017
    HayaTO nEEdS To hIT Max daMAge cApS at LevEl 10, pLz NeXoN geT YOuR aCT tOGeTheR.

    you're just commenting for the sake of hating on hayato. i hate the class too and that's why i think this post is amazing, instead of making fun of nexon this guy actually tries to improve the game. props to him.
  • ShadEightShadEight
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    edited May 2017
    HayaTO nEEdS To hIT Max daMAge cApS at LevEl 10, pLz NeXoN geT YOuR aCT tOGeTheR.

    you're just commenting for the sake of hating on hayato. i hate the class too and that's why i think this post is amazing, instead of making fun of nexon this guy actually tries to improve the game. props to him.

    t. hayato
  • SaekiSenpaiSaekiSenpai
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    edited May 2017
    I would agree with class changes were they to make sense but 2 of 3 suggestions make it even more powerful than it already is with stacking buffs and raising damage %s. The only one that would be pretty good to incorporate is toggle for autoreflect for those times bosses also reflect damage.
  • PirateIzzyPirateIzzy
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    edited May 2017
    I would agree with class changes were they to make sense but 2 of 3 suggestions make it even more powerful than it already is with stacking buffs and raising damage %s. The only one that would be pretty good to incorporate is toggle for autoreflect for those times bosses also reflect damage.

    You mean, making status resistance buffs stack is powerful? That's a joke, right?
    And it's not specifically raising damage, it's making skills more useful.
  • IvangoldIvangold
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    edited May 2017
    I would agree with class changes were they to make sense but 2 of 3 suggestions make it even more powerful than it already is with stacking buffs and raising damage %s. The only one that would be pretty good to incorporate is toggle for autoreflect for those times bosses also reflect damage.

    You problably didn't read, after all 2 of 3 are just to make this class viable and like other classes that don't die in damage reflect so easily...., just one ask to make a skill usefull since it's SUPOSED to give damage and it doesn't really give....

    You are just raging before seeying things, Hayato isn't even that OP, he's just strong and scale better than most jobs later game, but other classes are similar, like how Bishops can scale better than F/P due to high %crit dmg; Aran for exemple is powerfull, and received a lot of nerfs, Hayato was never OP and only have Shimada Heart to become viable.

    You remember me of the ''Feminazi'' that more rage for rage than for an actual rage, or like H3H3production says, it's the cult of outrage instead of anything else.
  • SaekiSenpaiSaekiSenpai
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    edited May 2017
    God of Blades
    Required Level: 150
    Call upon the ancient spirits of the sword to enhance Hayato’s abilities.
    MP Cost: 80, ATT +50 for 30 seconds, All abnormal status and elemental resistance increased by 100. Cooldown: 90 sec

    Iron Skin (Supportive)
    Temporarily increases Abnromal Status Resistance and Elemental Resistances.
    Level 1: MP Cost: 70, Duration: 66 Sec, Abnormal Status Resistance: +12%, Elemental Resistance: +12%
    Level 20: MP Cost: 130, Duration: 180 Sec, Abnormal Status Resistance: +50%, Elemental Resistance: +50%
    AlexF wrote: »
    Heyo,

    In Maplestory, "Physical" is actually an element. (I know, confusing)

    So if you have Max level insight, you ignore 5% Elemental Resistance from monsters.

    To roughly translate this; You would do 2.5% more damage on Cvel if your insight is maxed.

    That's why they don't stack.
    Ivangold wrote: »
    ...Lastly i find weird how they made a skill that is useless for 99% or even 100% of the time, the skill named Battoujutsu Advance, you are suposed to use all your Battoujustsu skills to gain %attack, but it's useless since boost is really low(just 1% attack per skill you use, max 8%) and the duration is really low, unlike mercedes one that you can actually combo with the same skills to gain stacks and it actually give you a better boost, this skill should either be somewhat similar to merc, or i tought it could give points for the stance, giving 200 points with a 1/2mins of cool down, that way they wouldn't need to worry about combing and this also helps the new 5job skill that actually use those points.

    ...he's just strong and scale better than most jobs later game.

    Ignis Roar (Supportive) The Merc skill in question
    Note: Level 5 required to learn Ancient Warding.
    Summons the power of the Fire Spirit to greatly increase your ATT for a time. Permanently increases Avoidability. Also increases Attack Power when using linked skills.
    Level 1: MP Cost: 40, Attack Power increased by 2 for 67 second(s). Final damage increased by 2% when using linked skills. Final damage increase due to linked skill usage can stack up to 10 times, lasts for 10, damage is stacked additively. [Passive Effects – Avoidability +5%]
    Level 20: MP Cost: 60, Attack Power increased by 40 for 200 second(s). Final damage increased by 2% when using linked skills. Final damage increase due to linked skill usage can stack up to 10 times, lasts for 10, damage is stacked additively. [Passive Effects – Avoidability +20%]

    20% final damage to a class that's already admitted to being better stacked endgame?

    Hayato doesn't need it. I did agree to the toggle on damage reflect btw.
    I would agree with class changes were they to make sense but 2 of 3 suggestions make it even more powerful than it already is with stacking buffs and raising damage %s. The only one that would be pretty good to incorporate is toggle for autoreflect for those times bosses also reflect damage.

  • JulyJuly
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    edited May 2017
    Hayato need nerf
  • SaekiSenpaiSaekiSenpai
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    edited May 2017
    Well I didn't mean using the two in tandem would let Hayato clean shop on any map, but rather as two stacked resistance buffs would make Hayato take a considerable amount less and be rather balance breaking, but I did not know there was a glitch that let them stack infinitely, cheers for that.
  • IvangoldIvangold
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    edited May 2017

    Ignis Roar (Supportive) The Merc skill in question
    Note: Level 5 required to learn Ancient Warding.
    Summons the power of the Fire Spirit to greatly increase your ATT for a time. Permanently increases Avoidability. Also increases Attack Power when using linked skills.
    Level 1: MP Cost: 40, Attack Power increased by 2 for 67 second(s). Final damage increased by 2% when using linked skills. Final damage increase due to linked skill usage can stack up to 10 times, lasts for 10, damage is stacked additively. [Passive Effects – Avoidability +5%]
    Level 20: MP Cost: 60, Attack Power increased by 40 for 200 second(s). Final damage increased by 2% when using linked skills. Final damage increase due to linked skill usage can stack up to 10 times, lasts for 10, damage is stacked additively. [Passive Effects – Avoidability +20%]

    50% final damage to a class that's already admitted to being better stacked endgame?


    Where is it 50% final damage? Besides the idea is to only have the %final dmg/%att as bonus, remember you need to stack once every 10 seconds and stop attacking, mercedes actually have skills to debuff the enime, but Hayato only debuff barely lasts 20seconds, Mercs get 20%final dmg from the stacks, and if you consider stationay target you won't get the 20%final dmg since you have to stack to 10 and then keep it every 10 seconds.

    The idea was some %att since the skill already give %att for each stack, and the skill doesn't even refresh every stack you get, mercedes one at least refresh the duration if you want to quick get 10 stacks.
  • SaekiSenpaiSaekiSenpai
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    edited May 2017
    Whoops, my b. Was confusing it with Blaster's Final Damage. Still having 20% is a huge boost. A lot of players have said that they do not even bother with it because the boost gained from the skill is so miniscule compared to just spamming an attack which is fine, honestly, as a few other classes work in similar fashion where old damage skills get replaced by new ones.

    Also

    there's
    these
    counter
    points.
  • IvangoldIvangold
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    edited May 2017
    Whoops, my b. Was confusing it with Blaster's Final Damage. Still having 20% is a huge boost. A lot of players have said that they do not even bother with it because the boost gained from the skill is so miniscule compared to just spamming an attack which is fine, honestly, as a few other classes work in similar fashion where old damage skills get replaced by new ones.

    Also

    there's
    these
    counter
    points.

    I know, this skill is complete useless and hardly even worth using it, that's why i wanted it to be more usefull, why make a skill that nobody will even use in first job(when you get the skill)...the idea would be %attack maybe since it's what it gives today, it could be a smaller bonus as long it's duration isn't so low, i also mentioned how they could make it more releated to the points in the sword bar Hayato have and use the beginning skill a litte more frequentely(at least for bossing), like if you spam the 1x1 skill frequentely(for Rai Sanrenzan) you gain more points.

    I know he's overpowered, but mostly for the end game, i feel how without fundings hayato is like any class, they could give a cap of 300%extra dmg for Hayato, he would still be powerfull, but balanced, yet nexon will mostly likely do nothing and prefer to buff all other jobs.
  • SaekiSenpaiSaekiSenpai
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    edited May 2017
    ...Okay so your point is without funding, Hayato is like any other class, which sounds balanced to me.
  • PirateIzzyPirateIzzy
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    edited May 2017
    That's not the same elemental resistance it's referring to. The one Hayato has refers to your own character's ability to resist/reduce the effects of elemental attacks (such as Crimson Queen's flames dealing less damage), not the ability to deal extra damage on bosses like the Crimson Queen.

    And honestly, since status resistance was nerfed, making the two stack is hardly as OP as it could be.
  • SaekiSenpaiSaekiSenpai
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    edited May 2017
    PirateIzzy wrote: »
    That's not the same elemental resistance it's referring to. The one Hayato has refers to your own character's ability to resist/reduce the effects of elemental attacks (such as Crimson Queen's flames dealing less damage), not the ability to deal extra damage on bosses like the Crimson Queen.

    And honestly, since status resistance was nerfed, making the two stack is hardly as OP as it could be.
    Well I didn't mean using the two in tandem would let Hayato clean shop on any map, but rather as two stacked resistance buffs would make Hayato take a considerable amount less and be rather balance breaking.
  • PirateIzzyPirateIzzy
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    edited May 2017
    And I still stand by that statement, since Hayato's level 150 hyper was essentially the same as Hero's (now they added some extra effects to Hero's). Elemental resistance doesn't go past the cap of 100% anyway (since it wasn't changed like status resistance), and it only lasts 30 seconds, so the least that can be done is make God of Blades not cancel out Iron Skin, instead making it work like a smart buff that takes priority.
  • SaekiSenpaiSaekiSenpai
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    edited May 2017
    Or you could learn not to buff with Iron Skin when God of Blades is active.
  • PirateIzzyPirateIzzy
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    edited May 2017
    Problem is that God of Blades cancels out Iron Skin rather than the other way around, making you have to recast Iron Skin after GoB ends. I don't know why you're so adamant that it shouldn't be fixed. since buffs have been made to stack throughout the years instead of canceling out other buffs.
  • SaekiSenpaiSaekiSenpai
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    edited May 2017
    Because they've been reworked or revamped throughout the years where stacking wouldn't change anything except for maybe damage value but that doesn't matter with how the game works anyways.

    Stacking elemental resistance with elemental resistance sounds pretty busted when you can reach 100% when considering physical is an element you can resist. If you changed the Resistance of Iron Skin or of God of Blades to balance the stack, fine. Leaving them as is but stacking anyways? No. I don't mind fixing a skill, but demanding two skills to stack for convenience is not a fix.
  • PirateIzzyPirateIzzy
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    edited May 2017
    But physical ISN'T an element you can resist. It doesn't work the same way for players as it does for monsters like PB and CRA. The way elemental resistance works for us only applies to attacks that specifically have elemental properties attached, and physical is not one of those elements, meaning non-elemental attacks will still work the same way they normally do; this is how player elemental resistance has worked since the conception of this game. Also, Heroes have had Cry Valhalla, their level 150 hyper give the same boosts as Hayato for years (now with some additional effects), and nobody complained about it being too OP, because it isn't too OP. Plus, the 100% boost (which, again, caps at 100%) only lasts for 30 seconds, so fixing the skill to either stack or just work as smart buffs is far from game-breaking.