We've already been punished enough because of botters and hackers. Take elite bosses as the example. They used to be way better to farm but because of hackers they continually get nerfed to the ground. Now pretty much only hackers/botters benefit the most from them.
Your suggestion for the most part hurts players only. Quests can be automated by hackers. They've done it with trainers in so many MMOs now. They can have a script running that lets them pick up the quest and turn it in when certain requirements are met. Their characters go to the location automatically also. Same thing would happen here.
For that reason I cannot support this suggestion sorry.
As for the suggestion in this thread about "buffing the rewards/mesos from bosses significantly and nerf the mesos from mobs significantly". That wont work either. Hackers already can hack to do massive damage and get top dojo ranks and Dream breaker ranks that even the top/strongest players in the server cannot get. They can clear bosses way easier than players.
Rather than meddling anymore with loot and elite bosses etc they should come up with better ways to combat them. Like banning entire accounts permanently for hacking. Banning hacker shops in fm + all the players making suspicious trades to and from that character. Cutting off the income for hackers is far better than ruining the income for legit players.
We've already been punished enough because of botters and hackers. Take elite bosses as the example. They used to be way better to farm but because of hackers they continually get nerfed to the ground. Now pretty much only hackers/botters benefit the most from them.
Your suggestion for the most part hurts players only. Quests can be automated by hackers. They've done it with trainers in so many MMOs now. They can have a script running that lets them pick up the quest and turn it in when certain requirements are met. Their characters go to the location automatically also. Same thing would happen here.
For that reason I cannot support this suggestion sorry.
As for the suggestion in this thread about "buffing the rewards/mesos from bosses significantly and nerf the mesos from mobs significantly". That wont work either. Hackers already can hack to do massive damage and get top dojo ranks and Dream breaker ranks that even the top/strongest players in the server cannot get. They can clear bosses way easier than players.
Rather than meddling anymore with loot and elite bosses etc they should come up with better ways to combat them. Like banning entire accounts permanently for hacking. Banning hacker shops in fm + all the players making suspicious trades to and from that character. Cutting off the income for hackers is far better than ruining the income for legit players.
Or go after the hack suppliers...but that would require legal action :T I would say to start taking out IPs of people with repeated offenses. I would also say...c'mon, get some GMs who can actually see stuff going on...=3=
They already tried that and failed. I forget the details but the hackers or website was outside of the US and the same laws didn't apply to them. It's very costly to sue. They can cripple hackers by going after their money. If they can't sell they can't make money. Of course they can rely on meso but the gains wouldn't be as big as what they get from nodes and elite bosses.
what they need to do is changed the mchanics or tweak around the classes that are used by hackers. classes that have skills that bypass the hack detection system. the basis of the hacking problem and botting is that they arent detected by the system.
the classes are: blaze wizard, kinesis, blaster kanna and few more. like luminous etc blaster is in here because of the animation cancel. although it is legal to use but it is so similar to the movements of botters/hackers that thats why it isnt detected.
the reason they bypass the hack shield is because these classes have skills or mechanics that move mobs around or move themselves around the map, or they have skills that move (hit box eg orbital flame) or skills that hit full map.
the reason hack shield doesnt detect the hacks is because hack shield is set up to detect irregular patterns from the classes. If a class that doesnt have the stated above tries to use the illicit programs, the hack shield will in fact detect them and kick them out the game
dude, the skills have nothing to do with how they bypass the hack shield, they are separate things entirely.
I'm not sure how you conceptualize hacking in your mind but it's not the way you think it works.
they first make a anti-hack bypass, and then make hacks by exploiting and manipulating code in the client, they often combine the 2 into the same program.
the classes that are listed just happen to have skills they decided to make exploits for, but there are other hacks that have nothing to do with a specific class (like the vac hacks and automated scripts ) and if they wanted, they could probably fine some exploitable skill for every class.
As for the suggestion in this thread about "buffing the rewards/mesos from bosses significantly and nerf the mesos from mobs significantly". That wont work either. Hackers already can hack to do massive damage and get top dojo ranks and Dream breaker ranks that even the top/strongest players in the server cannot get. They can clear bosses way easier than players.
I'm specifically referring to the bosses people are already clearing daily for around 200m/hr. Not Lucid and the like.
I don't know if everyone understand what i meant. What i meant is not to remove mesos from mobs/monsters. But indirectly, switch it on the form of random quests. Players doesn't get mesos drop, but after they kill the mobs/monsters, they have to turn in the quest to get the mesos from the npc. The basic idea, Players need to submit the random quests in order to gain mesos instead of just picking it up from the ground. Mesos is still available, but players have to accept the random quests, finish the task and then turn it in. Some of the quests will still be like picking up etc items from the grounds, so sometimes players still have to pick up item quests.
Additionally, because players need to go back and forth to NPC to get mesos, the mesos rewards will not just 5k mesos per turn in or just 1 bag of mesos (of course this will be ridiculos if only 1 bag of mesos), instead, they will increase the mesos rewards from certain random quests. Lets say, players will get 20millions mesos per quest they finish. And there will be higher level quests that will give even 50millions mesos per quest. These quests are repeatable and random. Players can do it as many times as they want. You can form a party if you want to finish it faster, or you can do it solo. Or you can make it some for solo while the others for party. obviously, party will give more. But still provide ways for players who prefer solo farming.
Inputs from Daxi said that hackers can read maple Quests ID that makes them can create a hack that can possibly automatically read the quest ID, accept the quests, teleport to the location, doing the quests and then turn it in to get the mesos. Means automatically finish any quests the hackers want. So In order to avoid this, maple have to create a system to counter this, somehow, so that noone can read either what quest they are getting or the ID quests. So there will be noone who can hack to complete any quests. Plus there will be no hacker who can just easily stand in 1 map hacking 24 hours a day getting billions of mesos everyday, selling it for dollars and create inflation to the market because mobs/monsters doesn't drop mesos anymore. Or if you want, just let it drop a little mesos like 100 mesos or 200, it doesn't matter. But the main idea is what i mentioned above
A new idea, maplestory can also create a separate map/room like the Party Quest Entry Area which is accesible from dimension portal , where people can go there and accept the special quests for mesos farming. This will also become a room where players will gather together to find party for completing mesos farming quests. Anyone can solo the quests too if they want, but forming the party to finish it will be a lot faster thus player can earn mesos faster. In this way, mesos farming will heavily be community based instead of solo, but still possible to solo. If maple want, they can also make Party Quest now special for mesos farming. Most people doesn't go PQ anymore. But if maple start to create a PQ that can give a huge amount of mesos, i believe Party Quests will be very crowded in the future and bustling with players.
They (Hackers) probably can still hack, but after few minutes they have to turn the quest in to get the mesos. So they can't just leave the computer 24 hours a day farming billions mesos like what is happening right now.
:T have you ignored most of what we said? Hackers can teleport to ANY map instantly. -sigh- I still completely do not support this, because it will hurt legit players more than hackers by a long shot.
They (Hackers) probably can still hack, but after few minutes they have to turn the quest in to get the mesos. So they can't just leave the computer 24 hours a day farming billions mesos like what is happening right now.
OR, they could just make their bots read the quest description, and after the bot has completed the quest, automatically go to the map where they can turn the quest in?
With Machine Learning, Neural Networks, and all that jazz becoming more and more available, advanced bots will be much easier to make. So in my opinion, the best ways to combat hacking now and in the future are to fix exploits (such as full map attacks, full map teleporting, etc.) by changing the internal logic of certain actions, such as Blaze Wizard attacks and character movement, and to implement back-end constraints to some actions preventing certain abnormal actions from taking place (such as
monter vaccuuming), with some tolerance, of course, so that lag or other legitimate causes won't trigger anything bad.
They (Hackers) probably can still hack, but after few minutes they have to turn the quest in to get the mesos. So they can't just leave the computer 24 hours a day farming billions mesos like what is happening right now.
Bots already have the ability to automatically move to a map and accept a new quests, then complete the quest. They are able to move to (and kill on) different maps depending on what quest they were given. That functionality already exists for the cheaters, your proposed system would be simple for cheaters to automate.
They currently read the data that exists in the client and is kept client sided in order to determine what quest they have been given. The information is stored client sided and Nexon would not be able to "hide" it from hackers without also hiding it from legitimate players (as in no one would have any idea what quest they are on).
For example, a quest called "example quest 1" to kill 500 Pigs (quest ID: 1) is different to "example quest 2" to kill 500 Slimes (quest ID: 2). The hack clients are already able to read that the quest log is telling them to kill 500 Pigs and are able to react accordingly. Currently they just read the quest ID, but even if Nexon could somehow hide the quest ID (which wouldn't be easy to do) the hackers would be able to automatically read the actual quest name/log and what it's telling them to do and still automatically complete it even without the quest ID. There would be no way to hide this from the hackers without also hiding it from everyone else.
Your suggestion would not stop cheaters at all, all it would do is slow them down for the few days it takes them to automate the process. A few days (if that) without hackers making mesos is not worth permanently hindering legitimate players to the point where many people (myself included) wouldn't even play anymore.
Literally everyone so far has been against your suggestion, you might not consider forcing people to party together in order to get optimal mesos/xp punishing but the vast majority of legitimate players will.
I seriously dont think you (Roni777) understand or even have a concept of how the game works or how the hack tools that are used to hack the game work to any degree.
I seriously dont think you (Roni777) understand or even have a concept of how the game works or how the hack tools that are used to hack the game work to any degree.
And it's been pretty unrealistic to consider shaking up the current state of the game so much like that. That kind of change would actually kill the game. This isn't pre-big bang anymore. Party quests aren't going to be good, and no matter what you do, they'll be far outdated. Nexon isn't going to update them either. They don't seem to care much for party play anymore, and even if they did, it's a horrible idea to put everything into quests and party quests. It just doesn't work like that anymore and I'm sure the playerbase would have a horrible time adjusting to such a change too. The suggestion's been a nostalgia-influenced clinging onto the old game if anything.
I'm entirely against any method of countering botting/hacking that punishes legitimate players. Nexon shouldn't be using some roundabout solution in the first place to solve the problem. Making things harder for legitimate players is the worst possible thing they can do.
Yeah I am not not used about hacking thingy. Don't even have the slightest even a novice ability in programming. You should know from my post above. That is not my field at all, not even a slightest. All i can give is the idea as player, not as someone who is used to programing and stuff. I will leave those to developers/maplestory programmers to tackle. That is why this idea can only be implemented if somehow developers can hide the quests, so that hackers can't read it. And about the client sided, do you mean that it is stored in our game client? so that anyone who is used to programming, can somehow read the quests description and what to do just simply by using the game client?Is it the only way? you can't change it at all? There is no way at all? What games that actually give ID/code which is important to the client side so that hackers can exploit it? Or all mmorpg are doing the same thing?giving their Quest ID so that it can be exploited by hacker?
Can't you save the quests on your server side? Oh, we can't coz there are too many quests. It will slow down the server. What about slicing down the available quests? Oh, we can't coz there are players who like to do quests. Crap, let me tell you, 99% of players doesn't do all the quests.. Only 1% of players who actually do all of the quests available. And even they do it once only, after that, they stop doing it on the other char, coz it is actually not usefull at all. And also now you make it very easy to level up to level 120+, so mostlikely very little players will do low level quests.
How about the other games? is all other mmorpg also face the same problem where all hackers now can hack doing all the quests automatically? or is it only maplestory who doesn't know the way to avoid it? Maybe learn on another game how they doing it? What about creating a randomly generated code where only you can read? is it possible? Anyone who try to answer this and not working as maplestory developer. pls state your experience as game developers like how long and how many games have you made. Or if you are working in some anti-hacking company and for how long. With your experitise, can you make game, at least similar to maplestory even though not the same? or even can make 3D MMORPG games? I just don't know if people who actually say "can't" is actually someone who have been making 10 mmorpg or more and very experience in this field, or just someone who never make a game at all and just saying "no" based on what they think is true. And also to some people who reply me up above about it is not possible, how many games have you made?is it mmorpg? are you working in any anti hacking company? Or are you a team for certain huge organistaion to prevent your organisation from getting hacked? coz even if i don't know about programming, i know from my friend a programmer said to me that Every hack can be countered. It is just depends on how expert you are. Otherwise those banks would have been bankrupted coz of getting hacked millions of times. But don't count on it I am also not an expert
@Rolls. No rolls. You might be a new player. I had played maplestory in the old days where hundred thousands of players are playing maplestory. All servers are fulls. Channels are fulls. In Almost any server are full of players, It is common to see 5-8 players are playing in the same map in a lot of channel. Ksing is common. It is like dailies. You might not play even a day without geting ksed especially by those players who play assasin class. I am not trying to kill the game as the game itself now is already dying. Nowadays Party Quest has become dull. Useless mostly. Only like 1% of the players are playing the Party Quest. That is why maplestory is dying. I am telling you now, you can ask all the old players. Who doesn't remember Kerning Party quest? The best PQ ever and very entertaining. All channels are always full. People are fighting just to get in PQ (But it was fun, players coming again and again to do it). You barely can see players name in ch 1 Kerning coz there were so many players in there fighting for PQ. So In my opinion, to bring up the function PQ back to its peak, is the best to keep maple alive, not like currently which is dead. FM was also so full especially ch 1 when Party Quest was everything. Only 2 place that is crowded with players, Party Quest and FM.
Fact : Pre-bigbang : More Players. Past Bigbamg : Most players Quit and only little player base left. That is fact.
You are sure not the player base will have hard time adjusting? That is opinion not fact. Party Quests was proven to be very interesting and have a huge amount of players base who plays it as long as the reward is good.
"The suggestion's been a nostalgia-influenced clinging onto the old game if anything". Suggestion is not about old or new. Suggestion is about how to bring out the best for maplestory. If the old is good, makes the game have more player base, Why not? In the end, if maplestory have more players, they will earn more dollars. I am not asking you to bring back Kerning PQ or any other old PQ. You don't have to, they are old. Just believe on the concept. Make more new PQ. Better than ever before. Make something new. The current maplestory will become old. And If maplestory implement more PQ, PQ will become new. Current one will become old in the future. So it is not about old or new. It is about which one is proven to be the best for players.
We are giving players more mesos from Party Quests. More rewards. It is Countering botter/hacker while rewarding players who play legitly and follow the rule. Not the other way around. You don't even give your reason. Just simply saying "no" without any facts. This is my reason. If this can really implemented and can counter botter/hacker, the prices in market will become stable through time. No more items with 9 billions prices. Wth, normally how will you get 9 billions mesos? Most of the billions mesos from hackers inflate the market prices and makes it harder for players. It is actually double reward for players. We are not punishing players. We give them way to earn more mesos while the market prices will stable through time. The bad things/downside is some of the hackers will quit the game which actually is not a big problem. Hopefully some will stay and play legitly. But legit players will stay and play and hopefully more and more players will come to maplestory and enjoy it.
If you can read the chat in FM channel 1 at that time, you probably have good eyes and excel at reading. Chat barely can stay there even for 2 seconds. It will get replaced by another player's chat. You can also ask old players, who doesn't remember carnival PQ. Who doesn't remember Dimension Crack PQ. And the best of all, for my example, is Guild Party Quest. Most of all guild gather together everyweek to go for Guild Party quests. Coz not only to get contributions for guild, but Guild Party Quest at that time was one of the best Party Quest that give a huge amount of mesos. Most of our guild members from windia at that time doesn't want to miss it. People are coming again and again because the community is so good. Party Quests is so alive. My ideas will revive maplestory. I am giving you proven facts, not just opinion.
I am not trying to bringing the nostalgia. But i will reply his/her opinion with facts, i will give facts that the amount of players of old maplestory when Party Quests was bustling and glory was a lot more than The current maplestory which i will say, not even 1% compare to the old days. It is not about old days. Even Henesys ch 1-10 was full of players. Maplestory need to wake up. It is not about the content. it is about the concept. It is about the time for maplestory not to just hearing opinion, but facts. Bring out the facts the amount of players who plays maplestory in the old days and the current one. Finds out why the old maplestory have so many players. Finds out which part of maplestory that always have a lot of players in the old and current days. Find Your SWOT, Strenght, Weakness, Opportunity and Threat, both old and present days. I am not saying Old is good and current is bad. Both has its own good and bad side. You just need to find the good and get rid of the bad.
What brings players come back to this game is how they share. How the community helps each other. Partying together. Tackle challenge together. Getting more rewards when they are doing it together instead of solo. If maplestory start to stick on few people who actually only love to play solo, grinding and grinding, in the end maplestory will only have a few players left. I am not saying that grinding is bad. But, grinding is boring for most of the players. You can't count on it to have your players coming back again and again. Instead if you try to focus on heavy grinding, you will start losing players. That is why more and more players quit. Only few people who actually can stand endless solo grinding and stay on the peak. Some also hackers. Not all high level are legit. Even my friend said that only 10% high level players are legit (but just opinion, might not be a fact)
Developers don't have to implement the old content back. I am not trying to bring back the old content. Let the old content be a history. You just need to understand the concept and implement it into new Party Quests. Which is a lot better PQ than Kerning PQ. A lot Better then Carnival PQ. A lot more rewarding then Guild Party Quest.
Developers also have to do mind mapping. If you have problem regarding certain suggestions or ideas/concept, don't just directly reject it. Try to find whether the concept is really good or not. If it is good but still have some problems regarding the implementation, try mind map it and find how to tackle the problems. Most of amazing / great ideas have trouble to implement and not very easy to implement. But if it is good, try find ideas how to tackle it so you can implement the amazing content.
Example, How to make party quests while it is so hard for players to even find people to do Party Quests?. We don't have enough player base anymore like in the past. The way to tackle this is easy, just implement a solo way and party way. The more people have in 1 party, the more rewarding it will be. So people can still solo it up to certain part and earn some of the rewards. but when they can gather enough people, they get more rewards, lets say double or even triple rewards. Your community will start to flock together, helping each other, supporting each other and in the end the game will be alive. The community will start being nice to each other coz they need each other. Like what human nature is, we need each other to survive.
Also more PQ that makes players need each other. The feeling of needed. The feeling of community. Now , most good event are soloing and sometimes i (and some of my friends) feel like want to puke coz of it ( Sorry for saying it harsh, but i am telling the truth from my heart). This last is opinion and also a fact for what i really feel.
@Rolls. No rolls. You might be a new player. I had played maplestory in the old days where hundred thousands of players are playing maplestory. All servers are fulls. Channels are fulls. In Almost any server are full of players, It is common to see 5-8 players are playing in the same map in a lot of channel. Ksing is common. It is like dailies. You might not play even a day without geting ksed especially by those players who play assasin class. I am not trying to kill the game as the game itself now is already dying. Nowadays Party Quest has become dull. Useless mostly. Only like 1% of the players are playing the Party Quest. That is why maplestory is dying. I am telling you now, you can ask all the old players. Who doesn't remember Kerning Party quest? The best PQ ever and very entertaining. All channels are always full. People are fighting just to get in PQ (But it was fun, players coming again and again to do it). You barely can see players name in ch 1 Kerning coz there were so many players in there fighting for PQ. So In my opinion, to bring up the function PQ back to its peak, is the best to keep maple alive, not like currently which is dead. FM was also so full especially ch 1 when Party Quest was everything. Only 2 place that is crowded with players, Party Quest and FM.
I didn't say don't make party quests good. I said not to put everything into party quests. Sure, make them rewarding, as an alternative option. Party quests are going to have a limit, and once that's done, what then? You just have absolutely nothing else to do if you literally remove everything worth doing elsewhere and put it there. Not to mention that'd completely kill the possibility of more reward for more effort.
And don't even bother with the "this isn't about nostalgia." I've seen enough nostalgia posts to know that this is exactly what every nostalgia based "bring back old maple" argument is: "Bring back party quests. Make it harder to level again. The game is too grindy now. Remember the good old days when all was great and so much better than now?"
And this is why I hate nostalgia. Not for what it is, which is great in its own way, but its obnoxiousness, its recurrence and that people can't seem to take a hint that pre-big bang isn't coming back. Its exclusiveness in that it alienates newer players in this kind of generational elitism. "The way the game's played now is bad, and the way I played back then is good."
The game changed. Any game that had lasted this long will change. There's no avoiding that. If it weren't for big bang or whatever other boogeyman people come up with, this game wouldn't even exist today.
This is my reason. If this can really implemented and can counter botter/hacker, the prices in market will become stable through time. No more items with 9 billions prices. Wth, normally how will you get 9 billions mesos? Most of the billions mesos from hackers inflate the market prices and makes it harder for players. It is actually double reward for players. We are not punishing players. We give them way to earn more mesos while the market prices will stable through time. The bad things/downside is some of the hackers will quit the game which actually is not a big problem. Hopefully some will stay and play legitly. But legit players will stay and play and hopefully more and more players will come to maplestory and enjoy it.
Yes, because clearly, giving more methods to get more mesos, therefore adding more into circulation will make make prices go down. That's totally how economy works. And the market will totally stabilise, since it'll be absolutely impossible for hackers to influence it once these changes happen. Won't it?
So let's say they do go through with your suggestions. Let's say they do because "there's more old players than new." How do you think post-big bang/post-party quest players will handle it? How do you think this whole set of players used to the game as it is now would react to all of that being completely thrown away for the sake of nostalgic old players? They'd feel exactly the same as you do, but with the opposite content in mind. "Damn, it sucks that all this we worked up to was just lost with these new updates. I'm just going to quit, I can't stand how the game plays now." And so begins big bang 2.0.
How can we say it punishes players? We are giving them more mesos from Party Quests. More rewards. It is Countering botter/hacker while rewarding players who play legitly and follow the rule. Also more PQ that makes players need each other. The feeling of needed. The feeling of community. Now , most good event are soloing and sometimes i (and some of my friends) feel like want to puke coz of it ( Sorry for saying it harsh, but i am telling the truth from my heart). This last is opinion and also a fact for what i really feel.
Honestly, this last part made me want to puke.
"The feeling of needed" "making players need each other"
How about the other games? is all other mmorpg also face the same problem where all hackers now can hack doing all the quests automatically? or is it only maplestory who doesn't know the way to avoid it? Maybe learn on another game how they doing it? What about creating a randomly generated code where only you can read? is it possible? Anyone who try to answer this and not working as maplestory developer. pls state your experience as game developers like how long and how many games have you made. Or if you are working in some anti-hacking company and for how long. With your experitise, can you make game, at least similar to maplestory even though not the same? or even can make 3D MMORPG games? I just don't know if people who actually say "can't" is actually someone who have been making 10 mmorpg or more and very experience in this field, or just someone who never make a game at all and just saying "no" based on what they think is true. And also to some people who reply me up above about it is not possible, how many games have you made?is it mmorpg? are you working in any anti hacking company? Or are you a team for certain huge organistaion to prevent your organisation from getting hacked? coz even if i don't know about programming, i know from my friend a programmer said to me that Every hack can be countered. It is just depends on how expert you are. Otherwise those banks would have been bankrupted coz of getting hacked millions of times. But don't count on it I am also not an expert
Oh, I just saw this. My apologies, I realise everything I'd said until now is wrong and/or invalid and worthless, since I haven't made 10 mmos yet. I'll also apologise on behalf of everyone else that dared disagree with you, because I don't think they've made 10 mmos either.
Um, just getting into details. Sorry , I'm still writing and editing up to this time hahaha.
@Petalmagic We The OTHER players want this lol. We the OTHER players don't want endless grinding. We The OTHER players want fun We The OTHER players think Grinding is boring.
@Rolls, if the PQ is limited, then why not making it unlimited? There is no reason to make it limited. I actually stated on the main post that this will be PQ focusing for mesos farming and it will be available unlimited. Players can do it as many times as they want. That is why it will not limit the capability of players to farm mesos. Instead of just hit and kill monsters, boring activity, players go to PQ, solo or make party and get, maybe 100mill after they finish it? But more rewards for party of course. The more players in 1 party, the more rewards it will give. isn't it awesome? Another idea i just found, because maple now have so many classes and most players now are making link skills, we can also limit it like to 50 perday, but players can still change to another char and farming with another char. But stilll, making it unlimited is better. That is why i try explain what is in my mind. Not trying to make a wall of text. So from this post, we can elaborate more and see if this is actually good. Instead of saying "no" without facts.
Um, just getting into details. Sorry , I'm still writing and editing up to this time hahaha.
@Petalmagic We The OTHER players want this lol. We the OTHER players don't want endless grinding. We The OTHER players want fun We The OTHER players think Grinding is boring.
@Rolls, if the PQ is limited, then why not making it unlimited? There is no reason to make it limited. I actually stated on the main post that this will be PQ focusing for mesos farming and it will be available unlimited. Players can do it as many times as they want. That is why it will not limit the capability of players to farm mesos. Another idea i just found, because maple now have so many classes and most players now are making link skills, we can also limit it like to 50 perday, but players can still change to another char and farming with another char. But stilll, making it unlimited is better. That is why i try explain what is in my mind. Not trying to make a wall of text. So from this post, we can elaborate more and see if this is actually good. Instead of saying "no" without facts.
want facts? You see how many people are for your post? I have not seen anyone besides you. So far the majority says otherwise to what you claim.
How many players actually go to forum? That is why most of my ideas above is based on facts, not on opinion. About how many people reply in here, doesn't means it represent the whole community. That is why i try to make this post based on facts. Not Merely opinion without fact. also people can make a lot of account either in forum or inside maplestory. Even some players have more than 10 level 200+ in 1 account. it still doesn't represent the community. that is why i try to elaborate facts. Not just opinion. So far opinion have made what maplestory today, getting less and less players. maplestory is dying. I can even count the numbers of players in FM channel 1 in Windia and some other servers. That is fact. Let me ask you, grinding is not boring? I did go to some players and ask, do you think endless grinding is boring? do you think grinding to lv 250 is boring? do you think grinding 40 chars to level 250 is boring? most of them say, yes it is so boring. not saying lv 250, even they say levleling at 230 is so boring. Mesos farming also boring.
Let me ask you, grinding is not boring? I did go to some players and ask, do you think endless grinding is boring? do you think grinding to lv 250 is boring? do you think grinding 40 chars to level 250 is boring? most of them say, yes it is so boring. not saying lv 250, even they say levleling at 230 is so boring. Mesos farming also boring.
Did anyone here ever say that grinding wasn't boring? Unless someone did, I don't understand why you're trying to argue something that everyone already knows.
Yes Dark Passsenger. The PQ Farming for mesos is suggested to be unlimited repeatable. Example, if we get 100mill per run, then if someone want to do it 50 times, they can get 5 billions total.
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Your suggestion for the most part hurts players only. Quests can be automated by hackers. They've done it with trainers in so many MMOs now. They can have a script running that lets them pick up the quest and turn it in when certain requirements are met. Their characters go to the location automatically also. Same thing would happen here.
For that reason I cannot support this suggestion sorry.
As for the suggestion in this thread about "buffing the rewards/mesos from bosses significantly and nerf the mesos from mobs significantly". That wont work either. Hackers already can hack to do massive damage and get top dojo ranks and Dream breaker ranks that even the top/strongest players in the server cannot get. They can clear bosses way easier than players.
Rather than meddling anymore with loot and elite bosses etc they should come up with better ways to combat them. Like banning entire accounts permanently for hacking. Banning hacker shops in fm + all the players making suspicious trades to and from that character. Cutting off the income for hackers is far better than ruining the income for legit players.
Or go after the hack suppliers...but that would require legal action :T I would say to start taking out IPs of people with repeated offenses. I would also say...c'mon, get some GMs who can actually see stuff going on...=3=
They already tried that and failed. I forget the details but the hackers or website was outside of the US and the same laws didn't apply to them. It's very costly to sue. They can cripple hackers by going after their money. If they can't sell they can't make money. Of course they can rely on meso but the gains wouldn't be as big as what they get from nodes and elite bosses.
dude, the skills have nothing to do with how they bypass the hack shield, they are separate things entirely.
I'm not sure how you conceptualize hacking in your mind but it's not the way you think it works.
they first make a anti-hack bypass, and then make hacks by exploiting and manipulating code in the client, they often combine the 2 into the same program.
the classes that are listed just happen to have skills they decided to make exploits for, but there are other hacks that have nothing to do with a specific class (like the vac hacks and automated scripts ) and if they wanted, they could probably fine some exploitable skill for every class.
I'm specifically referring to the bosses people are already clearing daily for around 200m/hr. Not Lucid and the like.
They don't take much range/gear at all.
Additionally, because players need to go back and forth to NPC to get mesos, the mesos rewards will not just 5k mesos per turn in or just 1 bag of mesos (of course this will be ridiculos if only 1 bag of mesos), instead, they will increase the mesos rewards from certain random quests. Lets say, players will get 20millions mesos per quest they finish. And there will be higher level quests that will give even 50millions mesos per quest. These quests are repeatable and random. Players can do it as many times as they want. You can form a party if you want to finish it faster, or you can do it solo. Or you can make it some for solo while the others for party. obviously, party will give more. But still provide ways for players who prefer solo farming.
Inputs from Daxi said that hackers can read maple Quests ID that makes them can create a hack that can possibly automatically read the quest ID, accept the quests, teleport to the location, doing the quests and then turn it in to get the mesos. Means automatically finish any quests the hackers want. So In order to avoid this, maple have to create a system to counter this, somehow, so that noone can read either what quest they are getting or the ID quests. So there will be noone who can hack to complete any quests. Plus there will be no hacker who can just easily stand in 1 map hacking 24 hours a day getting billions of mesos everyday, selling it for dollars and create inflation to the market because mobs/monsters doesn't drop mesos anymore. Or if you want, just let it drop a little mesos like 100 mesos or 200, it doesn't matter. But the main idea is what i mentioned above
A new idea, maplestory can also create a separate map/room like the Party Quest Entry Area which is accesible from dimension portal , where people can go there and accept the special quests for mesos farming. This will also become a room where players will gather together to find party for completing mesos farming quests. Anyone can solo the quests too if they want, but forming the party to finish it will be a lot faster thus player can earn mesos faster. In this way, mesos farming will heavily be community based instead of solo, but still possible to solo. If maple want, they can also make Party Quest now special for mesos farming. Most people doesn't go PQ anymore. But if maple start to create a PQ that can give a huge amount of mesos, i believe Party Quests will be very crowded in the future and bustling with players.
They (Hackers) probably can still hack, but after few minutes they have to turn the quest in to get the mesos. So they can't just leave the computer 24 hours a day farming billions mesos like what is happening right now.
With Machine Learning, Neural Networks, and all that jazz becoming more and more available, advanced bots will be much easier to make. So in my opinion, the best ways to combat hacking now and in the future are to fix exploits (such as full map attacks, full map teleporting, etc.) by changing the internal logic of certain actions, such as Blaze Wizard attacks and character movement, and to implement back-end constraints to some actions preventing certain abnormal actions from taking place (such as
monter vaccuuming), with some tolerance, of course, so that lag or other legitimate causes won't trigger anything bad.
Bots already have the ability to automatically move to a map and accept a new quests, then complete the quest. They are able to move to (and kill on) different maps depending on what quest they were given. That functionality already exists for the cheaters, your proposed system would be simple for cheaters to automate.
They currently read the data that exists in the client and is kept client sided in order to determine what quest they have been given. The information is stored client sided and Nexon would not be able to "hide" it from hackers without also hiding it from legitimate players (as in no one would have any idea what quest they are on).
For example, a quest called "example quest 1" to kill 500 Pigs (quest ID: 1) is different to "example quest 2" to kill 500 Slimes (quest ID: 2). The hack clients are already able to read that the quest log is telling them to kill 500 Pigs and are able to react accordingly. Currently they just read the quest ID, but even if Nexon could somehow hide the quest ID (which wouldn't be easy to do) the hackers would be able to automatically read the actual quest name/log and what it's telling them to do and still automatically complete it even without the quest ID. There would be no way to hide this from the hackers without also hiding it from everyone else.
Your suggestion would not stop cheaters at all, all it would do is slow them down for the few days it takes them to automate the process. A few days (if that) without hackers making mesos is not worth permanently hindering legitimate players to the point where many people (myself included) wouldn't even play anymore.
Literally everyone so far has been against your suggestion, you might not consider forcing people to party together in order to get optimal mesos/xp punishing but the vast majority of legitimate players will.
And it's been pretty unrealistic to consider shaking up the current state of the game so much like that. That kind of change would actually kill the game. This isn't pre-big bang anymore. Party quests aren't going to be good, and no matter what you do, they'll be far outdated. Nexon isn't going to update them either. They don't seem to care much for party play anymore, and even if they did, it's a horrible idea to put everything into quests and party quests. It just doesn't work like that anymore and I'm sure the playerbase would have a horrible time adjusting to such a change too. The suggestion's been a nostalgia-influenced clinging onto the old game if anything.
I'm entirely against any method of countering botting/hacking that punishes legitimate players. Nexon shouldn't be using some roundabout solution in the first place to solve the problem. Making things harder for legitimate players is the worst possible thing they can do.
Can't you save the quests on your server side? Oh, we can't coz there are too many quests. It will slow down the server. What about slicing down the available quests? Oh, we can't coz there are players who like to do quests. Crap, let me tell you, 99% of players doesn't do all the quests.. Only 1% of players who actually do all of the quests available. And even they do it once only, after that, they stop doing it on the other char, coz it is actually not usefull at all. And also now you make it very easy to level up to level 120+, so mostlikely very little players will do low level quests.
How about the other games? is all other mmorpg also face the same problem where all hackers now can hack doing all the quests automatically? or is it only maplestory who doesn't know the way to avoid it? Maybe learn on another game how they doing it? What about creating a randomly generated code where only you can read? is it possible? Anyone who try to answer this and not working as maplestory developer. pls state your experience as game developers like how long and how many games have you made. Or if you are working in some anti-hacking company and for how long. With your experitise, can you make game, at least similar to maplestory even though not the same? or even can make 3D MMORPG games? I just don't know if people who actually say "can't" is actually someone who have been making 10 mmorpg or more and very experience in this field, or just someone who never make a game at all and just saying "no" based on what they think is true. And also to some people who reply me up above about it is not possible, how many games have you made?is it mmorpg? are you working in any anti hacking company? Or are you a team for certain huge organistaion to prevent your organisation from getting hacked? coz even if i don't know about programming, i know from my friend a programmer said to me that Every hack can be countered. It is just depends on how expert you are. Otherwise those banks would have been bankrupted coz of getting hacked millions of times. But don't count on it I am also not an expert
@Rolls. No rolls. You might be a new player. I had played maplestory in the old days where hundred thousands of players are playing maplestory. All servers are fulls. Channels are fulls. In Almost any server are full of players, It is common to see 5-8 players are playing in the same map in a lot of channel. Ksing is common. It is like dailies. You might not play even a day without geting ksed especially by those players who play assasin class. I am not trying to kill the game as the game itself now is already dying. Nowadays Party Quest has become dull. Useless mostly. Only like 1% of the players are playing the Party Quest. That is why maplestory is dying. I am telling you now, you can ask all the old players. Who doesn't remember Kerning Party quest? The best PQ ever and very entertaining. All channels are always full. People are fighting just to get in PQ (But it was fun, players coming again and again to do it). You barely can see players name in ch 1 Kerning coz there were so many players in there fighting for PQ. So In my opinion, to bring up the function PQ back to its peak, is the best to keep maple alive, not like currently which is dead. FM was also so full especially ch 1 when Party Quest was everything. Only 2 place that is crowded with players, Party Quest and FM.
Fact : Pre-bigbang : More Players. Past Bigbamg : Most players Quit and only little player base left. That is fact.
You are sure not the player base will have hard time adjusting? That is opinion not fact. Party Quests was proven to be very interesting and have a huge amount of players base who plays it as long as the reward is good.
"The suggestion's been a nostalgia-influenced clinging onto the old game if anything". Suggestion is not about old or new. Suggestion is about how to bring out the best for maplestory. If the old is good, makes the game have more player base, Why not? In the end, if maplestory have more players, they will earn more dollars. I am not asking you to bring back Kerning PQ or any other old PQ. You don't have to, they are old. Just believe on the concept. Make more new PQ. Better than ever before. Make something new. The current maplestory will become old. And If maplestory implement more PQ, PQ will become new. Current one will become old in the future. So it is not about old or new. It is about which one is proven to be the best for players.
We are giving players more mesos from Party Quests. More rewards. It is Countering botter/hacker while rewarding players who play legitly and follow the rule. Not the other way around. You don't even give your reason. Just simply saying "no" without any facts. This is my reason. If this can really implemented and can counter botter/hacker, the prices in market will become stable through time. No more items with 9 billions prices. Wth, normally how will you get 9 billions mesos? Most of the billions mesos from hackers inflate the market prices and makes it harder for players. It is actually double reward for players. We are not punishing players. We give them way to earn more mesos while the market prices will stable through time. The bad things/downside is some of the hackers will quit the game which actually is not a big problem. Hopefully some will stay and play legitly. But legit players will stay and play and hopefully more and more players will come to maplestory and enjoy it.
If you can read the chat in FM channel 1 at that time, you probably have good eyes and excel at reading. Chat barely can stay there even for 2 seconds. It will get replaced by another player's chat. You can also ask old players, who doesn't remember carnival PQ. Who doesn't remember Dimension Crack PQ. And the best of all, for my example, is Guild Party Quest. Most of all guild gather together everyweek to go for Guild Party quests. Coz not only to get contributions for guild, but Guild Party Quest at that time was one of the best Party Quest that give a huge amount of mesos. Most of our guild members from windia at that time doesn't want to miss it. People are coming again and again because the community is so good. Party Quests is so alive. My ideas will revive maplestory. I am giving you proven facts, not just opinion.
I am not trying to bringing the nostalgia. But i will reply his/her opinion with facts, i will give facts that the amount of players of old maplestory when Party Quests was bustling and glory was a lot more than The current maplestory which i will say, not even 1% compare to the old days. It is not about old days. Even Henesys ch 1-10 was full of players. Maplestory need to wake up. It is not about the content. it is about the concept. It is about the time for maplestory not to just hearing opinion, but facts. Bring out the facts the amount of players who plays maplestory in the old days and the current one. Finds out why the old maplestory have so many players. Finds out which part of maplestory that always have a lot of players in the old and current days. Find Your SWOT, Strenght, Weakness, Opportunity and Threat, both old and present days. I am not saying Old is good and current is bad. Both has its own good and bad side. You just need to find the good and get rid of the bad.
What brings players come back to this game is how they share. How the community helps each other. Partying together. Tackle challenge together. Getting more rewards when they are doing it together instead of solo. If maplestory start to stick on few people who actually only love to play solo, grinding and grinding, in the end maplestory will only have a few players left. I am not saying that grinding is bad. But, grinding is boring for most of the players. You can't count on it to have your players coming back again and again. Instead if you try to focus on heavy grinding, you will start losing players. That is why more and more players quit. Only few people who actually can stand endless solo grinding and stay on the peak. Some also hackers. Not all high level are legit. Even my friend said that only 10% high level players are legit (but just opinion, might not be a fact)
Developers don't have to implement the old content back. I am not trying to bring back the old content. Let the old content be a history. You just need to understand the concept and implement it into new Party Quests. Which is a lot better PQ than Kerning PQ. A lot Better then Carnival PQ. A lot more rewarding then Guild Party Quest.
Developers also have to do mind mapping. If you have problem regarding certain suggestions or ideas/concept, don't just directly reject it. Try to find whether the concept is really good or not. If it is good but still have some problems regarding the implementation, try mind map it and find how to tackle the problems. Most of amazing / great ideas have trouble to implement and not very easy to implement. But if it is good, try find ideas how to tackle it so you can implement the amazing content.
Example, How to make party quests while it is so hard for players to even find people to do Party Quests?. We don't have enough player base anymore like in the past. The way to tackle this is easy, just implement a solo way and party way. The more people have in 1 party, the more rewarding it will be. So people can still solo it up to certain part and earn some of the rewards. but when they can gather enough people, they get more rewards, lets say double or even triple rewards. Your community will start to flock together, helping each other, supporting each other and in the end the game will be alive. The community will start being nice to each other coz they need each other. Like what human nature is, we need each other to survive.
Also more PQ that makes players need each other. The feeling of needed. The feeling of community. Now , most good event are soloing and sometimes i (and some of my friends) feel like want to puke coz of it ( Sorry for saying it harsh, but i am telling the truth from my heart). This last is opinion and also a fact for what i really feel.
I didn't say don't make party quests good. I said not to put everything into party quests. Sure, make them rewarding, as an alternative option. Party quests are going to have a limit, and once that's done, what then? You just have absolutely nothing else to do if you literally remove everything worth doing elsewhere and put it there. Not to mention that'd completely kill the possibility of more reward for more effort.
And don't even bother with the "this isn't about nostalgia." I've seen enough nostalgia posts to know that this is exactly what every nostalgia based "bring back old maple" argument is: "Bring back party quests. Make it harder to level again. The game is too grindy now. Remember the good old days when all was great and so much better than now?"
And this is why I hate nostalgia. Not for what it is, which is great in its own way, but its obnoxiousness, its recurrence and that people can't seem to take a hint that pre-big bang isn't coming back. Its exclusiveness in that it alienates newer players in this kind of generational elitism. "The way the game's played now is bad, and the way I played back then is good."
The game changed. Any game that had lasted this long will change. There's no avoiding that. If it weren't for big bang or whatever other boogeyman people come up with, this game wouldn't even exist today.
Yes, because clearly, giving more methods to get more mesos, therefore adding more into circulation will make make prices go down. That's totally how economy works. And the market will totally stabilise, since it'll be absolutely impossible for hackers to influence it once these changes happen. Won't it?
So let's say they do go through with your suggestions. Let's say they do because "there's more old players than new." How do you think post-big bang/post-party quest players will handle it? How do you think this whole set of players used to the game as it is now would react to all of that being completely thrown away for the sake of nostalgic old players? They'd feel exactly the same as you do, but with the opposite content in mind. "Damn, it sucks that all this we worked up to was just lost with these new updates. I'm just going to quit, I can't stand how the game plays now." And so begins big bang 2.0.
Honestly, this last part made me want to puke.
"The feeling of needed" "making players need each other"
Oh, I just saw this. My apologies, I realise everything I'd said until now is wrong and/or invalid and worthless, since I haven't made 10 mmos yet. I'll also apologise on behalf of everyone else that dared disagree with you, because I don't think they've made 10 mmos either.
@Petalmagic We The OTHER players want this lol. We the OTHER players don't want endless grinding. We The OTHER players want fun
@Rolls, if the PQ is limited, then why not making it unlimited? There is no reason to make it limited. I actually stated on the main post that this will be PQ focusing for mesos farming and it will be available unlimited. Players can do it as many times as they want. That is why it will not limit the capability of players to farm mesos. Instead of just hit and kill monsters, boring activity, players go to PQ, solo or make party and get, maybe 100mill after they finish it? But more rewards for party of course. The more players in 1 party, the more rewards it will give. isn't it awesome? Another idea i just found, because maple now have so many classes and most players now are making link skills, we can also limit it like to 50 perday, but players can still change to another char and farming with another char. But stilll, making it unlimited is better. That is why i try explain what is in my mind. Not trying to make a wall of text. So from this post, we can elaborate more and see if this is actually good. Instead of saying "no" without facts.
want facts? You see how many people are for your post? I have not seen anyone besides you. So far the majority says otherwise to what you claim.
Did anyone here ever say that grinding wasn't boring? Unless someone did, I don't understand why you're trying to argue something that everyone already knows.