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DPS chart isn't right

foussiremixfoussiremix
Reactions: 2,335
Posts: 365
Member, Private Tester
edited August 2017 in General Chat
Honestly guys i kinda don't believe the dps chart.
I used to but now not anymore.
I am fine with blaster and kinesis being on the top but bishop being at the bottom is total bs.

They only calculate the dps by testing skills on training dummies but thats not accurate.
Its not even accurate on non-moving bosses.

State your opinion here and DISCUSS

Comments

  • JettLuvsUJettLuvsU
    Reactions: 2,526
    Posts: 331
    Member, Private Tester
    edited August 2017
    Maybe they should try DPS/DPM test on actual bosses. I think it'd be cool to see a comparison on how jobs handle bosses.
    I know that might be hard to pull off since some bosses don't allow unlimited entries. ;_;
  • dragonluxdragonlux
    Reactions: 1,250
    Posts: 6
    Member, Private Tester
    edited August 2017
    That's a well known accepted fact, even amongst the people who frequent the forums that create these charts. Of course it isn't accurate; anyone who has attempted bosses from HMag and up should recognize that theoretical damage means nothing. If someone looks at a DPM chart and says yep, Bishop's an awful class because it's dead last on this chart, that person probably hasn't actually played the game.

    Trying to measure DPM against actual bosses isn't that feasible either - boss pattern isn't static. Chaos Vellum cycles through some pretty reliable patterns but it's not exactly the same every time you fight the boss, and that unreliability makes it difficult to pull meaningful numbers out of it. I mean, I like the idea - there are some players who have uploaded things like minimum damage Cvell runs or low range boss runs - but it just isn't as measurable as theoretical dummy DPM.
    JettLuvsUCatoooloooDividedFlow
  • RollsRolls
    Reactions: 3,220
    Posts: 177
    Member
    edited August 2017
    People need to completely drop their faith in DPM charts. They're completely inaccurate and yet they still generate this asinine amount of hype.
  • PetalmagicPetalmagic
    Reactions: 7,660
    Posts: 1,572
    Member
    edited August 2017
    I don't use DPS charts to play a class...I like Phantom and Bishop...both are pretty dang "weak" but I enjoy them.
  • HoneyWaterHoneyWater
    Reactions: 2,245
    Posts: 219
    Member, Private Tester
    edited August 2017
    Honestly guys i kinda don't believe the dps chart.
    I used to but now not anymore.
    I am fine with blaster and kinesis being on the top but bishop being at the bottom is total bs.

    They only calculate the dps by testing skills on training dummies but thats not accurate.
    Its not even accurate on non-moving bosses.

    State your opinion here and DISCUSS

    I time to time Wonder how they actually make DPS charts... like Some classes use like % chances of triggering an attack

    so like... to me it's somewhat inaccurate o_o

    kanna with her monkey fury

    Corsair and it's crew member (different crew = different damage) , pirates revenge and stuff (it gives a % of doing extra damage for a limited time)

    Phantom (Carte blanc and noir, i think it was noir that gave sent out 1 card every crit attack (100%) and carte blanc is the 60% one)

    Jett's Ally shooters or something (10%)

    i don't remember any... Angelic buster and her soul seekers? i think those are % chances to summon and re-create

    Those are the only one i can think of straight up out of my head*



  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
    Reactions: 8,980
    Posts: 2,669
    Member
    edited August 2017
    HoneyWater wrote: »
    Honestly guys i kinda don't believe the dps chart.
    I used to but now not anymore.
    I am fine with blaster and kinesis being on the top but bishop being at the bottom is total bs.

    They only calculate the dps by testing skills on training dummies but thats not accurate.
    Its not even accurate on non-moving bosses.

    State your opinion here and DISCUSS

    I time to time Wonder how they actually make DPS charts... like Some classes use like % chances of triggering an attack

    so like... to me it's somewhat inaccurate o_o

    kanna with her monkey fury

    Corsair and it's crew member (different crew = different damage) , pirates revenge and stuff (it gives a % of doing extra damage for a limited time)

    Phantom (Carte blanc and noir, i think it was noir that gave sent out 1 card every crit attack (100%) and carte blanc is the 60% one)

    Jett's Ally shooters or something (10%)

    i don't remember any... Angelic buster and her soul seekers? i think those are % chances to summon and re-create

    Those are the only one i can think of straight up out of my head*



    If it's a small margin of proc rate then it is automatically included in the damage per minute. The only % based attacks that proc that make a different to the overall dpm are the ones you have control over like phantom and the 1 card per crit. The ones that also proc 100 % of the time but have cool downs like xenon and the salvo also get included in the over all.
  • IvangoldIvangold
    Reactions: 2,985
    Posts: 588
    Member
    edited August 2017
    Remember they usually test with beginner gear, Bishop seens to scale much better with eqps, so you see strong people actually doing a lot more damage with Bishop than the charts says.

    Edit: Also most people won't be able to get the high damage that the chart says in bosses since it's either impossible or(usually) they just don't have that good control/ping to do the perfect DPS.
  • RollsRolls
    Reactions: 3,220
    Posts: 177
    Member
    edited August 2017
    Ivangold wrote: »
    Remember they usually test with beginner gear, Bishop seens to scale much better with eqps, so you see strong people actually doing a lot more damage with Bishop than the charts says.

    Also most people won't be able to get the high damage that the chart says in bosses since it's either impossible or(usually) they just don't have that good control/ping to do the perfect DPS.

    DPM charts are tested in impossibly perfect conditions that you'll never see where it matters (bossing). That and there's some ridiculous inconsistencies like how some classes are even judged only by the uptime of certain cooldown skills and how not only do they have equipment on, but sometimes they are given different equipment (xenon pls).

    But what I find completely detestable is how Nexon Korea balances classes taking these DPM charts into consideration. And when you have incidents like when that I/L main put the class higher up or whatever, it gets even worse. Not only is rebalancing influenced by these arbitrary training dummy simulator charts, but they are subject to personal biases and inaccuracies. Although I've heard that the charts have turned into a crowdsourced thing, the inaccuracies part is still there. You can't decide a class is too strong or too weak based on its performance in perfect conditions.

    DPM charts are nothing but hype generators. The people making them are plotting out the next bandwagon to come (and be shortly overshadowed by the NL bandwagon).
  • JushiroNetJushiroNet
    Reactions: 6,160
    Posts: 748
    Member, Private Tester
    edited August 2017
    dragonlux wrote: »
    That's a well known accepted fact, even amongst the people who frequent the forums that create these charts. Of course it isn't accurate; anyone who has attempted bosses from HMag and up should recognize that theoretical damage means nothing. If someone looks at a DPM chart and says yep, Bishop's an awful class because it's dead last on this chart, that person probably hasn't actually played the game.

    Trying to measure DPM against actual bosses isn't that feasible either - boss pattern isn't static. Chaos Vellum cycles through some pretty reliable patterns but it's not exactly the same every time you fight the boss, and that unreliability makes it difficult to pull meaningful numbers out of it. I mean, I like the idea - there are some players who have uploaded things like minimum damage Cvell runs or low range boss runs - but it just isn't as measurable as theoretical dummy DPM.

    In addition to this there are other things to consider such as differences in gms compared to kms. One very important difference, for example, is that we can reach attack speed 0 and they are capped at 2.