Copied from Reddit. I haven't come on this forum in a while due to its layout, but figured this will raise more visibility.
The rest is copied from Reddit directly. I will be checking both, so please feel free to leave your comments.
tldr; Please provide current methods of obtaining meso/Neb and YOUR ideas, no matter how silly, of changes that can be made.
THIS IS NOT MEANT TO BE AN EFFICIENT GUIDE, BUT A POSSIBLE LIST OF ALL OPTIONS TO CONSIDER/UPDATE
I will consolidate into a video to make it easier to spread the information on the forums and inform more new players/Nexon on what's wrong, what everyone can do, and how to go about progressing from here.
About Me
For those of you who don't know, I am a ~~pleb~~ streamer, Youtuber, #4 Night Walker in GMS, and a guy who spends far too much time on this subreddit.
I have been playing this game since the original beta days, and
I genuinely believe Reboot is the natural direction that this game would have taken, and I want to do whatever I can to help bring new players into the game and help them have fun! No MMO survives with no community, and this is just my way of trying to give back.
What Happened?
As you may be aware, meso farming has recently been, for all intents and purposes, removed from 99.9% of players, barring the few that have access to 225+ Kishin and endgame damage.
This would not have hurt as much if we had good alternatives to fall back on, like daily bossing and PoT farming.
That's why I want to help consolidate a list of all alternatives and start creating a guides for New Reboot players to diversify our meso income and make the game less monotonous while still progressing decently.
IMPORTANT DO NOT SKIP
Next Steps
What are current and future viable alternatives to obtain meso and Nebulite Boxes?
Please give me any and all ideas that may come to mind! In addition, please provide the meso bag sizes dropped per mob in the maps listed, if you can.
A few to get y'all started:
Current Methods Left
Daily Boss Crystals (60 a week or ~300m a week at midgame funding)
Ursus 2x
Silent Crusade meso bags
Arcane River Farming with Meso Gear/pots/Kishin
Alien PQ/NLC questline for possible single Neb Boxes
Remake Kannas and meso gear/IA and keep around 150-170 to maintain meso rates by deliberately dying (potentially bannable)
Farming Pensalir Equips at maps like Goblins in Korean Follk Town to extract for Philosopher Stones (300k/ea)
Lv200 - Lv230 Kannas only: Dangerous Deep Sea 3, possible farming alternative
Ideas
Field Hunting
Daily dungeon, akin to Monster Park, for Mesos, Nebulites, and Cubes
Increase meso rates scaled proportionally to HP (even more than current scaling)
All mobs should drop Neb boxes, especially in Arcane River
Spell Traces sale price increase from 5k -> 50k to help new players
Increase meso/drop rate Reboot passive buff so normal gameplay rewards proper amounts of mesos for regular progression
Increase base spawn rate to match current Kishin’s rates to remove the need for second computer
Bosses / Dungeons / Misc.
Increase items' NPC value, particularly on lower-tier bosses (Zakum/HT/Hilla/RA)
Vastly increase the rates of tier-up / amount of Master Craftsman Cubes and Nebulites
Increase number of crystals you can NPC a week and remove meso penalty for being in a party
Dungeons / Misc.
Mini-game area for rare rewards like Nebulites
Allow crafting materials, like ores and crystals, to have a high resell value or some kind of trade-in system for cubes/nebs
Cubic/Chaos Blades should sell for ~5-10m each
Decrease the cost of the first __ amounts of cubes for a new account in Reboot
Party Quests give substantial amounts of mesos
Include 2x coupons in the starting Reboot box to further help fledgling players
Allow sale of Mysterious Meso Pouches in several shops (Gollux, Commerci, Root Abyss, etc.)
/IMPORTANT FEEL FREE TO COMMENT
Thank you all, and I hope this will be an actual way to help us all come together and restore Reboot to a healthy community with fair, steady progression for everyone.
Together, we can revive Reboot despite Papa Nexon.
Comments
But with Ursus, 50b is about a year and a half of 2x Ursus every single day. I'm not including the mesos earned from bossing (~5-10mil, 15mil being super generous) because they constitute only 10% of your funds for Ursus+Bossing daily mesos (aka they barely help at all).
Before the kms maps nerf if u spent lets say 7b on staring a tyrant cape and u ended boombing all the capes and have to start all over, gathering that meso again could take like 1 week max of intensive meso farming so the feeling of frustration is a lot less than it could b now with this change, i really hope nexon does something to fix this issue.
I'm gonna make it clear right now: I do not think Nexon will revert this change. The logic behind the fix actually was sound, and while it is incredibly unpopular, meso farming with Kanna on Reboot has always been an issue of contention. The community is already very split on this issue, and I am trying to focus on not only alternatives, but more methods, suggestions, and ideas with which we can tweak current systems to still make good enough rates to progress.
I am not just trying to "skirt the issue", but trying to make other, more diverse methods viable. If you look at all the victories Reboot has won: Buff Freezers, Cube Bundles, they all had a focus on practicality and logical analysis of the benefits, alternatives, and negatives.
A lot of ppl currently have a kanna with full meso gear passed lv 200, so they have to make another kanna, get it to 140 and get like 5-7b of mesos to get full meso gear again...
Nexon does have a history of banning people for dying to stay in level range though, because it is considered an "exploit." I can't give you a source because all I have is anecdotal evidence, but it is generally known among the community.
So the only option, really, is farming on mains. And it's going to be terrible for non-endgame players.
OUTLINE
I think, despite the (in my opinion justified) backlash, most people would agree that the rates were a bit on the high side (with people reaching 800m/hr on 1x). Furthermore I think it is undeniable that non-KMS dropping meso outside level range was unintentional on Nexon' s part. Therefore I also think that most people are not necessarily mad that non-KMS maps were 'fixed' but they are mad that there is virtually no alternative that provides a decent pace of progression, not fast, just decent. (Sidenote: decent progression rates always will depend on how much time you want to pour in and therefore will differ from person to person. Decent progression for an average player will always mean fast progression for a hardcore player and slow progression for a casual player.)
MAIN ISSUE
In my opinion decent progression should be possible at all levels and stages of the game, this is what keeps the game interesting. I think this is currently one of the biggest issues. Place yourself in the shoes of a new player on Reboot. The first few levels are quite easy and after that it gets harder and harder, but we all know you can still progress decently quick. Levels 190-200 for an entirely new player may take some time but that's alright - he is progressing. Then, this player hits 200. Wooo! 5th job unlocked, all new training areas. However the jump from twilight perion to vanishing journey is very steep, if I may draw from personal experience. It is, I think, at this point most people realise their gear hasn't been keeping up with their level and they should start to farm. This is now no longer an option. Unable to get meso or nodes, as VJ mobs are too strong to effectively farm, without a kishin mule or meso/drop gear how is this player supposed to progress at a decent pace? Daily bossing seems very slow, taking weeks or months to get the gear required to even farm at VJ. I think first and foremost this is the biggest issue of all. It unreasonably slows down progression for new players.
Now what would allow for this decent progression rate at all stages?
IDEAS
I think the alternative to meso farming should ideally be something that is not a once per day type of thing, like Ursus or bosses. In my opinion I think you should allow players to grind out a multiple hour farming session if they wish to. Some ideas are already mentioned, like increasing the amount of meso arcane river or scrapyard/black haven/DWT mobs drop (and not by a measly 10% or something). Alternatively it could be possible to avoid the meso farming together and allow players to obtain cubes in other ways (let elite monster drop a guaranteed cube, increase cube drop rates from bosses, increase legendary vein spawn rates). But much rather I think players would have an effective way of farming meso. This can also be done by increasing the amount of meso an elite monster drops, by increasing meso drop rates for all monsters, by increasing the value of spell traces/twisted times or by introducing (repeatable) (party)quests that give a considerable amount of meso (hint; we're not talking in thousands here).
Other options could be creating a buff/potion like wealth and legion that much more dramatically increases the mesos you obtain. Even getting this from a daily quest and it not lasting very long is okay in my opinion, as long as it does not expire. Another (perhaps unlikely) idea is to create something like meso-land, where mobs around your level spawn and drop a lot of meso. There could be a trade-off here where for example the mobs do not give any EXP or other drops. If Nexon wants better control of the rates they could even make it so that you get a set amount of meso for every kill you get, or maybe something like monster park EXP - this would truly close a bit of the gap between starting and endgame players, since meso gear would no longer be a necessity.
Good for you, and I see what you're doing here. But you have to realize that this is a severely drastic change that cuts in to a main cable of what Reboot stood for from the get go, which is MESO = POWER. You fail to address this problem by merely pointing to the fact that they improved in other areas.
Wake up, dude. People are swearing off this game en masse because of this change to Reboot. They took away what we relied on without any regards to our pleas, and then did absolutely NOTHING to change the amount things cost in mesos for gains. It is an astronomical imbalance that is going to cause far more harm than the comparatively petty victories will help. In other words, no one cares about those small gains when they are sitting in the shadow of a massive mistake.
Bottom line is, that this needs dealt with RIGHT NOW, or this company risks losing so much that we may wake up soon to a pop-up message saying "Shut down...Sorry, thanks for playing"
Those are hardly what I would call victories lad. They're just common sense. Nexon adding them to Reboot was less about "bending a compassionate knee to Reboot's pleas" and more "o yeah sry we forgot"
Without significant change, Reboot will die. I am not denying that in any way.
Again, let me be crystal clear: The current methods are not enough. That's why I added an extreme focus on new ideas and easy implementations for the dev team so that at least there can still be a decent rate of meso income. Please do not ignore my actual stances in your anger. That does nothing but feed a divisive soldier mentality and only hurts our chances to restore a proper Reboot experience.
Last patch, 800m/hr+ was definitely broken. While I loved it, there's no denying that had to be fixed. What I am aiming for right now are ways for non-endgame players to feasibly make ~200-500m a day with a combination of daily and systemic changes (i.e. etc. item price increase).
The other point is for hardcore players (endgame and not) to be able to farm beyond that 300-500m if they so choose to. That should not include Arcana alone.
That is my current goal, and will certainly change if I hear back from enough players in that progression stage and how they're spending/obtaining mesos.
Of course, the easy fix is to go and rebuff farming rates at ByeBye and the like to only ~400m/hr, but that still belies Nexon's logical response: Lv150 mobs should not drop more mesos easily than lv200 + mobs. With that in mind, I fully support the change. What I do NOT support is the lack of alternatives.
If done right, these alternatives can see the average player yielding what they would have anyway for a day's work (~1-2 hrs), and see the hardcore player lose some rates (rightfully), but still gain a significant edge over the casual player given enough effort.
And on a personal note, let me remind you I AM an endgame player who has spent 500b+ mesos at this point. I fully understand the idea "Meso is Power". The issue is for people like ourselves to not be able to easily farm 5-10b in a day, but perhaps 1-3b if we so choose.
The issue is also for the casual player to not easily reach endgame, but for that progression to be supported systemically and at a solid enough pace to maintain interest and enjoy content suited to their stage of progression, not 4-week speedrun to lategame..
You'll forgive me for being a bit annoyed at the call for me to "wake up". I am aware of the kind of effects this change has, but as someone who has made it through the came with virtually no carries at 150-300m/hr rates, averaging about 300-600m a day in midgame, I believe that kind of balance is good for the Reboot community as a whole.
If anything, the idea that just because meso rates aren't reverted back to 800m/hr means the server is completely dead is ludicrous. Decent daily rates with alternate methods is the best of both game design and player progression worlds, and has been shown to maintain high population from the beginning.
You may want to take a step back and look at how much the average player actually plays, and see if you are crying wolf IF the daily rates manage to be 200-500m a day again for them.
Common sense they may be, but still victories nonetheless, seeing how long it takes Nexon to agree with us on "common sense". If Nexon actually agreed and actually acted according to "common" sense, then we wouldn't be having discussions like those from the getgo. The very fact that the community united, fought, and won is a victory.
Bots would regularly suicide to keep within a level range so they would get drops from certain mobs
And now they've reintroduced Bundles. I'm not saying Nexon is truly competent in any way, but you have to understand and pick your fights. As this game is mostly written in C/++, I can see where that issue would come up between unsigned / signed integers. That's a type of issue with a seemingly easy fix, but may actually be very difficult to implement due to the massive codebase.
I can think of easy hotfixes for it, but again, impossible to really say how "appropriate" a response can be without seeing the code in that example. In any event, buying 99 cubes at a time helps nobody. I was there during the start of Reboot, and I could understand their logic with that kind of hotfix. Nobody was farming billions because that just simply wasn't the rates back then. People were progressing rather slowly for the most part, unlike recently.
In any event, Nexon has not exactly demonstrated itself very well. But you're completely missing my point here:
I'm not asking for your money or for you to support the game.
I am simply asking for you to give ideas with which you think the game can be improved to help stabilize progression. Or if some good methods already exist, to share them with the rest of the community. That is all I am doing, and at this point, I have made that painfully clear. I refuse to answer similar kinds of anti-Nexon rhetoric that is completely irrelevant to the nature of this post.
I am asking you to support the majority of players, not just go off on Nexon and insist on restoring a broken system. Alternate. Viable. Methods. Must. Be. Implemented.
Right now, I have my own ideas for fixing Reboot to make it fair and fun:
(1) Increase the Reboot meso drop buff. But not too high, maybe make meso drops be worth 20x more than in other servers.
(2) Increase the spell trace drop by mobs to be that collecting a spell trace drop would give you 10 spell traces. This may encourage Kishining but gifted spell traces are few and far between so it wouldn't hurt to make the mob drops a little more lucrative since spell trace drops are rare.
(3) While it wouldn't help new players since this involves high-level theme areas, it would help high-leveled players get more money. Increase the spell traces rewarded from Mastery Boxes to 5000 spell traces instead of 500. Since the Rebooters are going to sell these anyways, there is no point in being skimpy about them for completing a boring theme area like Fantasy Theme Park or Korean Town and it would encourage high-level players to complete the stories of areas like that.
(4) Since Reboot bans trade between players and has no auction house, people will be relying on mob drops so change the Greed Pendant to increase the drop rate of all non junk items like spell traces, mesos and whatnot. You can increase the cost to buy one of these to 200 Speigel Coins but that would encourage more monster park runs.
(5) Include a Monster Park Meso and Item Drop extreme points, maybe a black potion for Meso Drop and white potion for Item Drop. They could cost 200 Speigel coins but are worth it to increase your drop rate for stuff by 25%. It would encourage more monster park runs.
(6) Add a second beginner level buff to Reboot characters that would half the cost for all Star Forcing. We need to not only address the elephant in the room with being poor all of the time by increasing meso farming but we also need to address the behemoth in the room which is Star Forcing. Since getting past six stars is going to drain your mesos like some freaky meso vampire because RNG is never on your side, and since Star Forcing is the ONLY way to improve equipment in Reboot, we need to make Star Forcing cheap in Reboot.
(7) We can counter the wealth problem by having Henesys's shop sell special 8, 10, 12 and 25 star scrolls(that skip the Star Forcing) for crazy amounts in the billions. Consider these scrolls the alternative of Pay to Win - if you have the money, you can just get past the frustration of RNG and have your fully star-forced item without having to risk booming it. Nexon can put in nerfs if it gets too unbalanced.