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The state of Kishin; Post your Suggestions here
So I'm just gunna start this off by pulling a few quotes from our friendly Overlord of Nexon America so everyone is clear that Kishin will be changed and why:
Because the Kishin skill allows maps to have more monsters and increases the rate at which they reappear after being defeated, and because of the sheer amount of players in the game using this skill at the same time, this causes a lot of technical issues that are difficult to solve. As I mentioned, we have done a lot to try to mitigate the lag, but we ultimately came to the conclusion that Kishin’s ability to increase monster spawn rate needed to be reduced to provide a smoother experience for all players.
We started to accelerate these discussions so that we could make changes before our upcoming Black Mage update patches. Our proposals included ways to reduce Kishin’s ability while providing bonuses to things like drop rate and EXP, so that we could ensure these changes didn’t impact the skill’s overall purpose and effectiveness
...we also understand the overall concerns about Kishin and how players feel that it is necessary to have a Kanna mule or a secondary PC just to be able to progress at a reasonable rate in the game
...18.55% of the unique non-banned characters who have logged into the game since June 1st, 2018 were Kanna classes. We agree that this creates an unhealthy game environment for our players, so we will be taking a hard look at these concerns and gathering as much data as we can and we will use this information as we decide how to move forward with Kanna
TL;DR:
Increasing spawn rate and count of mobs causes lag, most players feel the need to have Kish mules to progress at a good speed, and a lot of new unique characters made these days are just Kannas (most likely either Kish mules or Meso farming chars on Reboot).
Now then
Here are my ideas for solutions to the lag problem:
1: (Best at solving lag) Make Kishin increase base drop rate and XP of enemies (so it stacks multiplicatively with all sources of drop and xp boosts to make it function as similar as possible to the end result of current Kishin). Since Kishin increases spawn rate and count so much, this would have to be legit like +100% or more to base drop and xp rates of mobs otherwise it'd essentially be a nerf (ye, Kishin is that currently that strong).
2. (Good, but not perfect) Reduce spawn rate and boosted spawn count, but increase XP and drop rate to compensate.
Solution to people feeling like they need a Kishin Mule to get farm XP and Drops at a reasonable rate:
-Make Kishin a Link Skill. Duration scales with Kanna lv (70/120/210), and obviously do one of the lag solutions otherwise you'll kill the servers due to everyone now having kishin.
Solution that would cover both:
- Boost XP and Drop for all of GMS by like 2x across the board, and make Kishin just an ordinary summon for damage.
Comments
the amount of mobs doesn't not affect the servers in my opinion, no one that i know said they lag or dc more when they are around kishin?
it's the amount of active players. affect server stability .
total removal of kishin should happen simultaneously with Frenzy removal or it would be monopoly .
Replacing Kishins spawn rate with xp and drop still has the same issue of GMS players not liking Maplestory's grind as much as KMS players and feeling like Kishin balances this out (a lot of players heavily prefer the game with a Kishin mule, especially for leveling side characters for legion), and making it a link skill would be kinda awkward (link skill that just give 100% xp and drop... then it's like a core link skill that everyone has to use)
A link skill may be a better alternative, but it still requires players to make... well... a Kanna... Thus the overreliance continues.
It is my opinion that Nexon should have never allowed for spawn boosters, as people think they need them now. That the game is slow without them.
As someone who played heavily without them, when I did actually get the chance to use them, it felt... too easy. (Mind you I only play a few hours each day.)
If we're really going down the KMS warpath (a 1:1 copy, or close to it.) Nexon needs to be absolutely sure they have the player base who supports this idea.
Doing that is going to piss off a lot of players, something that even a supporter of the idea, does not want to see.
I think a better method is to improve the quality of life of the game, so that BOTH regions are happy.
I'm against punishing players for the behavior of hackers. I don't think Nexon should do that.
What if someone was actually wanting to make a Kanna for Tera burning?
Whatever Nexon does do, they need to make sure the class actually requires a player behind the wheel to make the Kanna useful for the party.
Kishin should be useful, but not required. Like Holy Symbol, it should be nice, but not THAT nice.
Holy Symbol can be easily outdone by EXP coupons, 2x Event, Burning Zones, etc.
Nothing has the sheer power of Kishin, other than an extremely pay to win Frenzy Totem. (Which should be removed with Kishin imo, no double standards please.)
I'm against that too, tbh I'm against nerfing Kishin at all as long as
Nexon's gold mineFrenzy Totem still exists, but there is no other option. With the situation now, servers are gonna be flooded more than ever, this time with tera-burned Kannas. Events like this are like zillion kilogram of gold to hackers (as evidence - you still see tons of non legit Kannas with the Frozen set) . So doing such as thing is very necessary in my opinionYou're most likely right, as Nexon said it didn't plan on making the change soon, I doubt they'll change it before Tera Burn.
If they're not going to disable the spawn rate effect on Kishin, blocking Kannas in general is the next best thing.
A move I'm sad to see them have to do, but at this point they've backed themselves into a corner.
For reference, the time it takes for most maps to check for dead enemies before it spawns monsters is 6 seconds. Kishin reduces the check timer to 2000ms or 2 seconds and adds +50% mob count into the map while Frenzy reduces it the check timer to 2000ms or 2 seconds and adds +100% mob count into the map.
The problem is if Nexon wanted to go with what they said in the memo and compensate it with EXP/drop, it would have to be approximately +300% more EXP and drop rate to compensate If Kishin/frenzy was planned to be removed without angering more than half of the community which would be out of Nexon's standards.
My thoughts about balancing kishin/frenzy is kind of like what the topic starter said except with different values.
My ideas were:
-Normal time to check for dead enemies before it spawns monsters would stay at 6 seconds because this is out of Nexon(non-KMS)'s control.
-Kishin's check timer reduced from 2000ms to 1500ms and the extra mob count from +50% to 0 (Remove value)
-Frenzy's check timer reduced from 2000ms to 1000ms with the extra mob count value down from +100% to 0. Add +20% passive EXP bonus or make it part of the Monolith skill.
-Kanna's link skill at max level 2; Along with the permanent damage % increase, add +10% more EXP and +10% Drop rate which does not count to the potential drop rate limit.
-Add a V matrix skill that functions like a weaker kishin that reduces the mob check timer to 2000ms at all levels and passively increases EXP by +15%, drop rate by +15%, and meso rates by +30% that lasts for 270 seconds with a 180 second cooldown at level 30. This skill does not do damage.
Maybe removing a function while compensating it with decreased checking time and some EXP/drop buff on a link skill would at least make servers slightly more manageable and provide a compromise between current kishin and future kishin. Frenzy would still look more powerful and richer compared to kishin.
A weaker Kishin skill in V matrix would at least bridge the gap between not using spawn boosters and using one as well as rewarding players who level continue to level up for normal/reboot players.
Short summary:
-Kishin's mob check timer reduced from 2000ms to 1500ms and the extra mob count removed
-Frenzy's mob check timer reduced from 2000ms to 1000ms with the extra mob count value removed. Add large EXP/drop bonus of some sort to make up for some loss.
-Add a V matrix skill that functions like a weaker kishin that reduces the mob check timer to 2000ms at all levels and passively increases EXP by +15%, drop rate by +15%, and meso rates by +30% that lasts for 270 seconds with a 180 second cooldown at level 30 that does no damage.
Kishin is the opium of the maple world.