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Moving away from gender-centric systems

MagicDoorsMagicDoors
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edited June 2019 in Suggestions, Feedback, and Requests
I realize that this is a far-reaching suggestion that, if considered, wouldn't happen for quite awhile. I do want to put the idea out there, though - it couldn't hurt.

With gender minorities becoming more socially accepted and gender roles becoming less strict, it seems appropriate that people of varying genders should be able to identify in a way that they feel comfortable, especially in a game with such a focus on fashion like Maplestory. My suggestion is to completely remove the "gender" variable that is part of a character's data. Instead of having it as a selectable option at character creation, give the player full access to the male and female hair and face styles of the class they are selecting. For characters already created, you likely wouldn't have to change anything - it seems like all male and female hair and face styles are separate in terms of ID. I might be wrong about that, but I can't see that being a hard fix to remedy. For random style coupons, maybe offer distinct coupons for male and female styles, or have it as an option when you go to use the coupon.

The other issue is gender-locked clothing. The answer to this is simple too - just unlock it. You don't need to make separate sprites for those clothing items or anything like that, just let all characters equip all items.

Edit: After reading AKradian's reply, I want to update this post to include the issues involving gender-locked classes, to make this suggestion more comprehensive. The classes in question are Mihile (male-only), Angelic Buster (female-only), and Zero (gender-typed siblings). You can keep the hair and face styles that are default for those classes, but let the player change it to either gender pool of styles through coupons after the character is made. Basically letting the characters transition if the player so chooses.

As a transgender individual it makes me sad when I'm unable to express myself how I wish, and having these changes implemented would be a fantastic step in the right direction for having an inclusive experience for all minorities. I sincerely hope this is something that is at least considered.

Comments

  • AKradianAKradian
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    edited June 2019
    I agree, and in fact made the same suggestion two years ago. It will be interesting to see whether anything has changed, in the community or Nexon, regarding this topic.

    (Although my suggestion came more from a "some of the gender assignments for cosmetic items in this game make no sense" direction than a "represent gender minorities" one, in practical terms it was the same.)
  • AggraphineAggraphine
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    edited June 2019
    Considering male and female are literally the exact same sprite but with a choice between blue and pink under-bits, dispensing with the gender flags on most items is not that unreasonable. It would also be a massive increase in what could be used with fusion anvils
  • FuhreakFuhreak
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    edited June 2019
    Gender locking is a weird relic of old maple regardless. Why are all the higher level items neutral?
    All Nexon needs to do is change the flag on all gender locked items to neutral.
    Cash Shop coupons might require a bit more work, but it's not unreasonable.
    The whole "Korea doesn't like gays/trans/whatever" argument doesn't even matter because it's not like they're advocating those things with this anyway.

    While we're fixing equipment requirements, can we standardize mage equipment to stop ending on 8? It creates issues when transferring into the 120 gear.
  • pepepepe
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    edited June 2019
    MagicDoors wrote: »
    As a transgender individual it makes me sad when I'm unable to express myself how I wish, and having these changes implemented would be a fantastic step in the right direction for having an inclusive experience for all minorities. I sincerely hope this is something that is at least considered.

    I mean you could choose the opposite gender already and most NX equipment these days are unisex (even the 'feminine' ones). Some royal hairs/faces are very similar in each rotation for both genders that most of the time I can't even tell who's a male character or female. The way you're wording it is that you're simply bothered with gender binaries just being there at all and wanting something that is mostly a remnant of old maple be removed as a kind of statement.
    xparasite9
  • MagicDoorsMagicDoors
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    edited June 2019
    Trans individuals aren't the only minority I feel should be represented. This would highly benefit nonbinary and genderfluid individuals as well.
  • ShadEightShadEight
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    edited June 2019
    MagicDoors wrote: »
    Trans individuals aren't the only minority I feel should be represented. This would highly benefit nonbinary and genderfluid individuals as well.

    this isn't a hollywood movie, no one is nominally 'represented' in a video game and your suggestion wouldn't benefit anyone since its just aesthetics
  • MagicDoorsMagicDoors
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    edited June 2019
    Using the "it's only cosmetic" excuse is useless in a game heavily based around cosmetics. The benefit in this case is for nonbinary folk being able to mix and match, and genderfluid folk being able to swap between gender-heavy styles. For cisgender folk, there's no downside.

    ShadEight wrote: »
    this isn't a hollywood movie, no one is nominally 'represented' in a video game

    ??????
  • FuhreakFuhreak
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    edited June 2019
    ShadEight wrote: »
    your suggestion wouldn't benefit anyone since its just aesthetics

    It benefits everyone because it's aesthetic.
    There's no downside to it. Forget about "representation", I'm a "cis gender male" and I want this stuff too.
    SlicedTime
  • ShadEightShadEight
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    edited June 2019
    Fuhreak wrote: »
    ShadEight wrote: »
    your suggestion wouldn't benefit anyone since its just aesthetics

    It benefits everyone because it's aesthetic.
    There's no downside to it. Forget about "representation", I'm a "cis gender male" and I want this stuff too.

    There's no direct benefit in cosmetics (except Nexon making money out of it).
  • pepepepe
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    edited June 2019
    MagicDoors wrote: »
    Using the "it's only cosmetic" excuse is useless in a game heavily based around cosmetics. The benefit in this case is for nonbinary folk being able to mix and match, and genderfluid folk being able to swap between gender-heavy styles. For cisgender folk, there's no downside.

    Your suggestion isn't just about making hair/face gender neutral, you want to remove the gender 'variable' altogether as a statement of inclusivity.
  • FuhreakFuhreak
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    edited June 2019
    ShadEight wrote: »
    Fuhreak wrote: »
    There's no downside to it. Forget about "representation", I'm a "cis gender male" and I want this stuff too.

    There's no direct benefit in cosmetics (except Nexon making money out of it).

    So you're saying you make players and Nexon happy? So... Why don't we already have this?

    pepe wrote: »
    Your suggestion isn't just about making hair/face gender neutral, you want to remove the gender 'variable' altogether as a statement of inclusivity.

    Turning it into a statement of inclusivity is a bit silly if you ask me. Nexon would be more likely to bite without that idea being the reason.
    Nexon would be more likely to do it and players would be more accepting if it wasn't about making sure a minority feels good about themselves.


    PirateIzzy
  • MagicDoorsMagicDoors
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    edited June 2019
    Well bringing updates that support minorities and allow them to feel comfortable is fantastic too, but yes it is a nice way to further diversify cosmetic choices in general, and just remove systems that feel archaic anyway.
  • BluTF2BluTF2
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    edited June 2019
    i agree cause some female hair styles look good and i want em on my character
  • xparasite9xparasite9
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    edited June 2019
    These are male characters:
    15vaeabbla.jpg

    These are female characters:
    16vebadvlnae.jpg

    Here's some more characters I dreamed up, using hairstyles and clothes that are/were available to genders that don't traditionally fit the appearance:
    5lbebe.png

    You have the ability already. You just lack the creativity or patience to achieve it.
  • MagicDoorsMagicDoors
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    edited June 2019
    xparasite9 wrote: »
    You have the ability already. You just lack the creativity or patience to achieve it.

    I don't understand why we need to get aggressive or take shots at each other. I'm not saying there aren't alternative options, what I'm saying is that changing the system itself further diversifies the options for those that want to present themselves a certain way, while becoming more inclusive to people of various backgrounds and situations.

    I'm not presenting this as a money-making opportunity, either. I realize there are people who think that that's all that Nexon cares about, and that might be true. I have no way of knowing. This isn't a poll or a debate on how feasible or profitable the change is. This is my appeal to Nexon, asking for a change to support minorities that aren't currently supported, and allow all players a greater freedom of choice. Whether they decide to take action is up to them.
  • xparasite9xparasite9
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    edited June 2019
    MagicDoors wrote: »
    I'm not presenting this as a money-making opportunity, either.

    Maybe you should be thinking in these terms, because opening this up they way you want would actually lower revenue generated by the special sales and events that make many of these limited and exclusive hairstyles and faces available.
  • MagicDoorsMagicDoors
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    edited June 2019
    Sorry, but I'm not going to. If Nexon refuses to do this because they can't make money off of april fools coupons then, as unfortunate as that would be, that's their decision. Even if adding some lackluster reasons why it wouldn't impact sales might help a little, I think it's a detriment to the message in general - I'm much happier trying to appeal to Nexon's responsibility to their underrepresented fans.

    I've made my points very clear, so I'm going to leave this thread as it is. I sincerely hope it causes a change, but we'll just have to wait and see.
  • FuhreakFuhreak
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    edited June 2019
    MagicDoors wrote: »
    Sorry, but I'm not going to. If Nexon refuses to do this because they can't make money off of april fools coupons then, as unfortunate as that would be, that's their decision. Even if adding some lackluster reasons why it wouldn't impact sales might help a little, I think it's a detriment to the message in general - I'm much happier trying to appeal to Nexon's responsibility to their underrepresented fans.

    I've made my points very clear, so I'm going to leave this thread as it is. I sincerely hope it causes a change, but we'll just have to wait and see.

    I think you'll see better results to just present it as "This is a good idea for the game itself."
    Rather than present it as "This is a good idea for my minority."
    As a business, you should try to appeal to a majority. If you can make both groups happy at the same time, that works too.
    A non-gender equipment/CSCover system would benefit everyone. There's no need to turn this into a political issue.
    SlicedTime