Joyjason

HHG1 wrote: »

Based on replies here and on reddit, it seems people absolutely do think the problem is the ban of suicide kannas.

HHG1 wrote: »

I would say they addressed it quite late

Now you do have a point here and quite frankly I'm still more of a newbie who's only played this game for about 4 months. It still brings up the question why "Suicide Kanna = An Exploit" discussion wasn't brought up for that period of a MINIMUM of 4 months even when a complete newbie like me could learn about it from the community. It really implies that Nexon as a company do not understand the functions of their own game and needs to always act retroactively when something like the false ban waves occurred and the community is outraged. Heck your words even suggest that if these false ban waves wasn't there Nexon would still have no official statement on Suicide Kannas.

This is how it is KMS, anyway, with the Wind Archer's Howling Gale bug not fixed for nearly 3 years vs Pathfinder's Raven Tempest, the aforementioned "bug" of Shield Chasing for Demon Avengers, and even the Night Lord's Spread Throw controversy where KMS buffed the skill in question without testing it and only listening to community then realizing they done goofed--It's definitely not proper that the developer/publisher of the game knows less than players or consumers.

HHG1 wrote: »

You mentioned how they killed leeching in another post, and while there are other solutions that could effectively gut the suicide method and make it non-viable in similar ways, the difference is that there is already an autoban in place to catch hackers that abuse the same method for the same purpose; to make maximum profit off of low-level outdated content, forever.
Simply stating "you gon b banned" might actually be the better solution in this case.

The argument I have against this is what if they're not actually using hacks or macros, but actually playing the game? Even with the initial ban waves I still farmed at Byebye, and I personally thought that the reason why I wasn't blocked from the game was because I actually controlled my character continuously and never used a macro/bot/hacks like other plays may have or used suspicious dying mechanics (and subsequently it was these players who were banned). It also brings the question why it was at this certain point the autoban system decided to arbitrarily kick in and start banning people who "abused" suicide Kannas, instead of when it was a thing 4 months ago. That is of course, if that autoban was put in place to specifically combat against Suicide Kannas, which is obviously not the case as seen with Nexon admitting to "false bans".

I guess my point here is that the autoban was there to combat hackers--that's fine, but now that it's hit some others who may or may not have been guilty Nexon makes this a problem for the entire server which includes innocent players by restricting the practice altogether

I feel like I should reinforce my previous posts--people are pissed about the ban of suicide kannas. This is a fact. However, I think there would have been far less outrage or backlash if the following traits weren't present:
1) Nexon seemingly had no comment on this practice for at the minimum of 4 months
2) This was a retroactive statement following a series of autoban features they might have implemented that didn't kick in until now
3) There's really no proper logic for this to be considered an exploit, noting it as "unintended behavior" which can be extrapolated into other arguments
4) There are still other serious bugs or detrimental factors (e.g. hackers) that Nexon does not (or cannot) resolve

(I guess a good analogy here is if someone you hate did something to offend you vs if someone you liked did the same thing--you'd probably react a lot differently just because of your previous viewpoint with them and it's kinda the same thing here)

Aggraphine wrote: »

A skill that grants a period of invincibility as its intended function or dying over and over to prevent leveling up so you can sit in one map forever. Yeah that's totally a fair comparison.

It kinda is. A lot of these skills have a large delay. I have a Pathfinder sub-main so Nova Blast for example, but how about a Marksman's True Sniping (oh my god imagine this skill not having iframes I'm legit lol'ing right now at the imagination), and many of the bosses have one-shot mechanics that if you got hit with during the usage of the skill, would cancel it altogether. Sure--if you git gud and know when to use these high-delay skills (e.g. with binds) that might work but not only do most classes not have a class-bind there's still the risk of bugs that might happen with canceled skills that can all be alleviated with just a short iframe. Thus these iframes aren't really meant for you to cheese or tank boss mechanics (and there's absolutely no boss mechanic all the way up to the Black Mage that MANDATES an iframe so this kinda supports that claim as well)

If you're not satisfied with this analogy, how about the common practice of using mules for significantly more advantageous benefits, such as Wild Hunter for the superior Sharp Eyes (30% Crit Damage vs 15% for other archers or 8% for DSE) and Call of the Wild (+10% attack) and Bishops for Heaven's Door which was utilized for ages in content such as Mu Lung Dojo and bossing? Though it's patched for both Dojo and the newly revamped Ghost Park it's still utilized for bossing as you can see in various KMS clips. These players receive significant advantages such as not needing to use their DSE and empty a slot in the V-Matrix for another node or blatant buffs and additional death count

How about Kishin mules and a 2 PC meta if you feel like the analogy should be GMS-tailored? I feel as if Nexon is fully aware of this issue since they did release Fury Totems (though it's limited and quite frankly a bit expensive), but this gives a significant advantage for people who have 2 machines (whether physical or virtual) and can be considered unintended behavior since you're getting the advantage of Kishin without actually playing on the Kanna, not to mention the people who use a Kishin mule often do so with a macro to refresh the Kishin which is explicitly against Nexon's Terms of Service.

These are just examples of "strategies" that players developed, implemented, and utilized over the years within the boundaries of the game system. Suicide Kanna just happens to be another one in that list along with many others I'm too dumb to think of right now.

It might not be a good practice to interpret everything you see on the internet as memes especially when there's effort for a serious debate. You contribute nothing even towards the argument supporting this ban announcement and it only makes you look bad

Fuhreak wrote: »

It's my personal opinion that she needs to be nerfed into the ground. No meta should ever revolve entirely around one character in a game with 40+.

You couldn't have spoken truer words--I completely agree with this opinion. Heck I actually kinda want GMS to completely remove her from the game exclusively or redo some revamps to make her less desirable as a class. The problem with that is it'll piss off a lot of people, and even while I share your opinion I know as a fact (quite disdainfully) a Kanna nerf/removal will cause detrimental effects on GMS Reboot as a whole. The only reason why I may not be AS vehemently against Kanna such as yourself is because it's a class that's readily accessible for everyone--not a time limited class or a class that you need to pay for/significantly work towards

To go off topic a bit and discuss your opinion of Maplestory being really a Solo-only game nowadays it's important to note way back in Pre-BB PQs were the objective best way to level while getting "leeched" was also more effective than solo-grinding. These are all party-based features that players "utilized" but if you asked Nexon said "leeching" would probably have been considered a similar offense to Suicide Kannas. However, with the revamps of classes to be given additional mobility and faster map clearing skills and overall power inflation, along with nerfs on party play (inability to gain EXP while not in Combat Stance) and decreasing population due to some bad patches (i.e. Unlimited) AND the aforementioned abuse of getting six times the amount of mesos for running multiple clients during bosses, Maplestory really had no choice but to resort to making everything solo-oriented regardless of whether it was a good choice or not. The other option to leave it be would cause absolute chaos and probably killed off the game much quicker (such as for the multiple client bosses exploit).

I have utmost respect for you as a veteran of this game and a knowledgeable debater, but it's definitely not fair to critique any game fully aware of its history and why it needed to turn out to be this solo-oriented game (Most MMOs end up becoming generally solo-oriented anyways too, from the power inflation or simply the fact that it's just not worth to party play). I guess if you wanted to point fingers it can be towards Nexon for its bad patches and the players who "abused party systems", but if I may be so impudent to make a suggestion that if you want party-play or co-op in your games you should be playing something like the FPS genre and not an RPG in this day and age where people are so lazy they're willing to buy progress in games with money and KMS already implemented a way to skip Arcane Dailies by using Maple Points... so asking them to gather party members for a task might as well be asking them to kill themselves

Remember how everyone was stuck on Nett's Pyramid for the Adventurer Step Up and how no one does PQs anymore except for DRPQ and the occasional groups who farm PQ Points? Yeahhhhhhh

Fuhreak wrote: »

I said that to point out that I'm on the server more negatively affected by this.

I think the point was that for players who have Arcana Kanna farmers, this announcement won't affect them since "suiciding" at level 240s will be less frequent and more natural, and you may have been just one of these players apathetic about the players who haven't gotten to that point yet.

You've mentioned previously that you were glad Nexon was more explicit with the decision to ban the act of Suicide Kannas. What kind of overall benefit do you think this will have on the Reboot server in terms of... honestly anything? Do you really think this would affect hackers who can simply just make another account or meso farming not their main purpose? What about the prospective players who may be reading what's now outdated meso farming guides and getting banned for it? Heck I've been playing Maplestory for about 4 months and don't have an Arcana Kanna to farm with. What about players like me who are now forced to get my Kanna beyond level 230 or suffer inferior progress rates?

It would've helped your point if you included why (reasoning) you thought this was a good idea along with your opinion. Until then, I'd say you've earned the "hate" others have displayed.

Anyway, to input my own two cents

My stance is obviously towards disagreeing with this entire decision. I'm Korean and get a lot of info from KMS so it's a "no-duh" fact that KR Reboot exists and they don't have Kanna or Byebye. That being said, GMS does have a bit more difficult progression in terms of mesos (Star Force after 15* costs nearly double compared to KMS) and thus it's only appropriate for GMS Reboot servers to have some kind of advantage outside of the 6x Meso Reboot passive to earn mesos.

My stance against this announcement is more corresponding to others on this thread claiming that losing EXP for dying is a game system we're utilizing to our advantage. It's literally the same as using, say 5th job skills that have iframes to avoid one-shots; the iframe is probably there so the attack with the long cooldown isn't interrupted or become bugged, but we're using it to cheese boss mechanics for example. Not to mention that losing EXP for death is really an outdated mechanic for MMOs, and the only other one I can think of with this feature is Mabinogi (but the effects of EXP loss in that game is abysmal). Other games penalize death with durability damage or item losses.

Not to mention that even if we assume Suicide Kanna is indeed a malicious exploit, we still have hackers running around even in the Esfera regions and I commonly see mobs grouped up in various maps including popular training spots or Arcane River maps suggesting the previous user there was hacking. Heck even if we're turning a blind eye to hackers due to circumstances such as GMS being understaffed/incapable to fight them there's still bots/macros that a LOT of people use and don't get detected because they're otherwise harmless and GMS would have no way to prove the user was botting unless they recorded the actions and analyzed them over a period of time. I'm just saying maybe instead of acting against players who are more likely to be legitimately playing the game "abusing" a harmless mechanic only to progress faster (which is still subject to RNG, mind you), more of this banning effort can be directed towards hackers and botters. Now I understand this is a radical opinion that's insane and untold of (viva sarcasm), but just give it some consideration.

Maplestory Staff as a whole is definitely missing the point. Nerfing Demon Avenger's Shield Chasing skill to the ground because of how the class was abused by botters, then making the excuse that it was a bug that the Shields reappeared? Nerfing Holy Symbol entirely because in KMS botters would advertise/trade with other players in a single map (Easy Cygnus) that could've been monitored by a GM? Now we're saying playing the game and using strategies to progress faster without any kind of hacks, bots, or illicit activities is "unintended behavior" and threatening bans with 0 effort in remedying it to discourage the "abuse" of of Suicide Kannas. Sounds like an irresponsible parent who tells their child to not do drugs/smoke but leave the alcohol and tobacco in plain sight available to the child then reprimanding the child later.

Heck I've posted on Reddit the exact same thing--I'm legit surprised how GMS didn't completely remove Kanna as a class because most of the hackers use a Kanna and even for this issue it's the same class causing this problem. Based on their pattern of fixing problems that would've been the most logical course of action.

It goes without saying, but I'll be pretty clear to any of the volunteers/staff members/anyone with a reasonable brain to comprehend this wall of text--the problem isn't the ban of Suicide Kannas; the community is just super frustrated that this game is a mess in so many ways (disconnects, bugs, memory leaks, hackers, bots, lag) but when it comes to one thing that isn't even detrimental the entire bloody GMS team arises from the grave to address it in a few days, and there's minimal effort for the Staff to give alternatives to Suicide Kannas or working with the playerbase for better solutions than just simply stating "you gon b banned".