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Lower attack speed cap to the same as KMS has

DrAatroxDrAatrox
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edited July 2018 in Suggestions, Feedback, and Requests
Hi, I was just thinking:

Since we just got flames, and 25 star-cap is already confirmed... Why not make the game a bit more balanced by changing the attack speed cap to what KMS (and all the other servers) has?

I would assume that the different attack speed here was something we got because we didnt have as many and easy ways to get damage as the other servers?
I just feel like; with all this new systems being introduced it will make bosses easier than what they are intended to be.

If this is not something that will be considered, there should be a balance to classes that dont use attack speed based skills, such as hurricanes, Phantoms "Mille Aiguilles", Corsair´s "Rapid Fire" etc... (But please dont)

For those classes I would suggest either a buffed damage % on the skills they use, or make them benefit from the different attack speed and make those skills hit faster aswell.


I know that GMS have had this feature for a long time and I didnt mind it at first, but now that there are so many ways to get more damage and range... The difference between classes that benefit from attack speed and classes that dont is just getting bigger and bigger.



I´d love to hear what others think about this aswell, as long as the response is serious and contains reasonable arguments either for or against this kind of potential change!?


Here is an example on how much of a difference it is for Demon Slayer: J0LzFEE.png upkS8bc.png ~17%

Edit: I just want to add that Ark, the new class cant use the combos with the current attack speed unless they charge up stacks of battle frenzy before reaching attack speed 0. If you lose these stacks during bossing/training, you wont be able to combo again until you go back to as 2 and charge up those stacks again. (Heard from a trustable source)

Comments

  • KingofFurriesKingofFurries
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    edited July 2018
    can u not
    like just no
    no one wants this
    ever
    ShadowRikuLyedenDFDFD
  • ZelpexRebootZelpexReboot
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    edited July 2018
    No, this is a terrible idea.. don't make the game worse lmao...
    ShadowRikuLyedenDFDFD
  • AKradianAKradian
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    edited July 2018
    The difference isn't getting any bigger, in relative terms, since the ratio between speed 2 and speed 0 remains the same for all damage ranges.
    While it's true that the GMS attack speed cap gives some classes more DPM than they get in KMS, the difference is only a few percent. And to reach it, they need AS+1 inner ability (foregoing ATT or boss damage or buff duration) and a dSI node in the V Matrix (taking a slot away from other useful skills).
    In my opinion, the GMS attack speed cap doesn't break the balance, just shuffles the DPS ranking charts a bit. There is no justification to removing it and angering many players who have invested in their characters on the assumption that speed 0 is obtainable.
    IvangoldShadowRikuTacoLOL
  • DrAatroxDrAatrox
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    edited July 2018
    The difference is definitely bigger now than it was before. I know what you mean, but I hope you know what I am trying to say aswell. ( The difference in % stays the same, but if you take into consideration that people do higher and higher lines, the difference will be bigger if you look at the GAP between 100m->1b and 1b->10b.)
    A bit exaggerated, yes, but it is to show you what I mean by an example.

    Hurricane based classes already have lower %dmg on their skills than most of the others that benefit from attack speed.
    Hurricanes attack faster, yes, but the amount of lines per attack is also way lower than what non-hurricanes does.
    If you put; lets say an Aran, Dual Blade, Night Lord, Thunder Breaker etc.. next to eachother, GMS vs KMS. Who would do more damage?

    Yes, thats right, the GMS one.

    You also forgot to mention the free DPS gain from green potion in GMS.

    And regarding the V matrix system with the nodeslots, there are plenty of slots there now, and there will be more in the future. (This can be different from class to class, but in general there are enough slots for both dSI and all the other nodes you need for your spesific class.)

    If the DPS gain from having to swap boss or att for that extra att speed isnt that great, I dont understand why everyone chose att speed over any other option.


    Also you saying that the difference is only a "few percent" is also wrong. This has been tested, and confirmed to be more than 10% for everyone I have spoken to.

    I am only concerned that the bosses will be too easy with all this powerspike, as some people already managed to beat the hardest bosses with the 15 star cap.
  • HishotodoHishotodo
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    edited July 2018
    I would think the overwhelming majority don't think this should be changed, however I think this is a possibility regardless of our opinions and should be braced for. I almost want to say it's an eventuality, GMS is cracking down on aligning with KMS and I don't think this will be overlooked for much longer. It's unfortunate, but so were so many other changes we didn't ask for or want.
    ShadowRikuHoneyWaterDFDFD
  • ShadEightShadEight
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    edited July 2018
    Just a thought, why doesn't KMS conform to us instead
    ShadowRiku
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited July 2018
    I would contest that KMS players have better control over mechanics than some if not most GMS players. That control is advantage as well. The speed cap is marginal advantage as AKradian explained. As for hurricane type users, the speed cap also affects them, maybe not the speed of the skill itself, but the cast animation. Only class that has no cast delay in the skill ( rapid fire) is corsair. The others manifest the light bow ( Mercedes, bowmaster) the space gun(jett) and the cape (phantom) etc, 0 speed cap cancels the delay in which these things are manifested.

    the most noticeable difference is from (5) max to 2, then 2-0 is barely noticeable.
    ShadowRiku
  • IvangoldIvangold
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    edited July 2018
    I feel most people that would complain about the advantage that classes get from attack speed are the ones who don't get as much as others, even thought the attack speed can help a lot of skills and even up helping any job to switch skills faster(such as 5job which classes are getting more and more).

    I guess the better point is how much people invested to get a certain status, like my Marskman friend who used problably over 5b mesos on honor in normal server yet he still didn't get +1attack speed, if he knew it was gonna change he might just stuck with some of the good lines he got before.
  • MartijnMartijn
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    edited July 2018
    Whilst I would not be a fan of the attack speed change, I think some of you guys are being ridiculous. The extra attack speed is huge. Here is an explanation as to why:

    I'm an Aran in Luna and I started maining it back in EMS. In EMS, we did not have the hard cap on attack speed, we were limited to the same attack speed as in KMS. Before we got revamped or even buffed*, it was a huge effort for me to solo Chaos Vellum, not because I would die out or was too weak (I capped quite consistently), but purely because I did not deal enough lines in 20 minutes. Back then, I still had Aran videos from GMS players to compare, and I remember a video where Swirlled (an Aran from Bera, who DID benefit from the extra two attack speed stages) solo'd the same boss in about 14 minutes, effortlessly.
    Now, ofcourse, you could argue that his control was better than mine, I don't know anymore and I am very sure that that difference, stacked on top of 'a few % DPS from extra attack speed', would not result in a total of a 30% DPS difference.

    Again, I would not be a fan of losing our hard cap on attack speed, since it would have a huge impact on Aran, but your argument that 'the extra attack speed does barely anything' is just stupid.

    PS: I would add video proof but Swirlled's solo has disappeared off his Youtube channel, and I'm not sure if one is allowed to post links to Youtube videos here. (My video is still up, if you care to search for it on Youtube)

    *For those with the knowledge: our attack chain did 5-3-4-5 lines per attack before the buff I am referring to.
  • HishotodoHishotodo
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    edited July 2018
    Martijn wrote: »
    Whilst I would not be a fan of the attack speed change, I think some of you guys are being ridiculous. The extra attack speed is huge. Here is an explanation as to why:

    I'm an Aran in Luna and I started maining it back in EMS. In EMS, we did not have the hard cap on attack speed, we were limited to the same attack speed as in KMS. Before we got revamped or even buffed*, it was a huge effort for me to solo Chaos Vellum, not because I would die out or was too weak (I capped quite consistently), but purely because I did not deal enough lines in 20 minutes. Back then, I still had Aran videos from GMS players to compare, and I remember a video where Swirlled (an Aran from Bera, who DID benefit from the extra two attack speed stages) solo'd the same boss in about 14 minutes, effortlessly.
    Now, ofcourse, you could argue that his control was better than mine, I don't know anymore and I am very sure that that difference, stacked on top of 'a few % DPS from extra attack speed', would not result in a total of a 30% DPS difference.

    Again, I would not be a fan of losing our hard cap on attack speed, since it would have a huge impact on Aran, but your argument that 'the extra attack speed does barely anything' is just stupid.

    PS: I would add video proof but Swirlled's solo has disappeared off his Youtube channel, and I'm not sure if one is allowed to post links to Youtube videos here. (My video is still up, if you care to search for it on Youtube)

    *For those with the knowledge: our attack chain did 5-3-4-5 lines per attack before the buff I am referring to.

    Although I don't think it's a good idea to lower the cap to KMS standards either, to be fair...

    Comparing this to the OP, this basically reinforces his argument (in terms of class balance, at least). If the 2 extra stages of attack speed can add up to ~30% more damage, that is basically an "unintended" bonus for classes that don't use hurricane skills. The solution that would be agreeable here would be to buff hurricane classes to compensate, but we know that special GMS character balancing is not happening. Especially since "KMS-ification" is becoming more and more prevalent.

    So, questions:
    1. Are Hurricane classes especially weak our server because of it? Is it possible they're potentially just weak across servers?
    2. What would be the most realistic solution?

    Personally, I think hurricane classes need some love in general. Even in KMS they seem to always be getting buffs nearly every patch, but never seem to end up comparing.

    _

    As for the lowering the attack speed cap, I still disagree. For one, it's just fun to attack faster. Maybe I'm being selfish, but I also think it's selfish to take away a fun mechanic because it creates a special imbalance. I'd much rather hurricane classes be compensated, although that's unrealistic. As for character:monster balance, I think that's basically a joke anyway. Could you attribute +2 attack speed to be the sole reason why our region can fight harder bosses? There are a lot of numbers and mechanics that go into a Maple character's spreadsheet, it's hard to tell.
  • ShadowRikuShadowRiku
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    edited July 2018
    You left out the fact that you main a WH and so you want it this way because of your hurricane-esque skill isn't as fast.
    Why test it on a DS and not your actual main?

    Horrible idea and you know it.
    Absolutely unwanted.
  • DrAatroxDrAatrox
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    edited July 2018
    Unwanted, yes.
    Needed, yes.
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited July 2018
    needed by who's standards?
    DFDFD
  • IvangoldIvangold
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    edited July 2018
    Why is it that necessary anyway? Could be to balance out GMS to KMS, but not like other reagions such as JMS or TMS doesn't have their our things that make character there overpowered, like in TMS with a overall that have 200attack base, it's simply insane, or maybe all exclusive things in JMS.

    I don't see reason to really nerf that since we already got flames nerfed on non-KMS equips, and we might as well lose lv3link skills with the incomming 25star, that should be nerfed if we got something else to compesate from KMS version.

    Feels like you are a WH main who just hate other classes getting damage on attack speed bonuses f3, as if hurricane didn't have their own advantages, which actually helps WH with your jaguar skills.

  • HoneyWaterHoneyWater
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    edited July 2018
    I would be ok with this.
    Just wanted to show some support since a lot of people seems to not like this idea since it could change their class play style, which i could understand.
  • VindicatorViVindicatorVi
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    edited July 2018
    As a someone that has had multiple mage mains, Attack Speed is an absolute necessary and key factor for us to be any relevance, assuming lag isn't as bad. That extra half second that it takes to cast some spells greatly affect either how you much you can do in a run and possibly to survive in certain situations. At the same time, say that we did have an attack speed cap, there would need to be a way to make up for that missing damage output, granted that GMS has things that KMS doesn't have and vice versa and massive overhaul in servers to actually make sure your hits are registering and all casts are responding. In the end, we know both of those things aren't happening.

  • ScreamingForHelpScreamingForHelp
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    edited July 2018
    Why don't we also

    1. Remove all non-kms equips like SWs, gollux, outlaw hearts, battleroids, totems, sengoku and ghost ship exorcist badge, and the like? Because you know, game balance. We should all just have the exact same best in slot and style as KMS.
    2. Remove all non-kms content? Remove gachapon and marvel machine while we're at it.
    3. Remove tier 4 potential tiers on Lv.151+ items? You know, for the sake of game balance.
    4. Remove 2nd golden hammer slot. No other MapleStory versions have 2 golden hammers.
    5. For the sake of people who argues against it, allow real money trading and account sharing? Since KMS allows it and is completely fine with it, GMS should change their Terms of Service to follow exactly how KMS follows it.
    6. But you know, this game wouldn't be fair to the people that funded then. Too much losses. Instead we should introduce the Masterpiece system into GMS so people can work on getting stats on Master Label nx sets, that will certainly make up for the losses.

    I'm not sure if you want GMS to be an exact carbon copy of KMS or what, but this is something that's unnecessary if you're going to be nitpicking about something like attack speed.
    KingofFurries
  • DrAatroxDrAatrox
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    edited July 2018
    Do you really think that removing the attackspeed would harm anyones funding at all?
    You would have to reroll you inner for it thats all..
    Removing all gollux and sweetwater items would result in people having to make new items for all of their non-kms items.

    All I am saying here is that: considering we have gollux and sweetwater already... Dont you think thats more than enough power for this server. They have more basestats, better set effects and they are easy to obtain.

    Isnt this a good enough advantage already?

    Changing thr attack speed wouldnt result in anything other than you attacking a bit slower.

    Its not like you would get any weaker if they changed attackspeed with this incoming 25 star system.

    I think none of you realise how powerful that star system is at all...

    For the sake of it, I dont see a reason to not nerf our tier 4 potential either.
  • foussiremixfoussiremix
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    edited July 2018
    Hahahaha no
    Classes that depend on attack speed would get so much weaker.
    Bishops would get even weaker through this for example.
  • DrAatroxDrAatrox
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    edited July 2018
    As a someone that has had multiple mage mains, Attack Speed is an absolute necessary and key factor for us to be any relevance, assuming lag isn't as bad. That extra half second that it takes to cast some spells greatly affect either how you much you can do in a run and possibly to survive in certain situations. At the same time, say that we did have an attack speed cap, there would need to be a way to make up for that missing damage output, granted that GMS has things that KMS doesn't have and vice versa and massive overhaul in servers to actually make sure your hits are registering and all casts are responding. In the end, we know both of those things aren't happening.
    Hahahaha no
    Classes that depend on attack speed would get so much weaker.
    Bishops would get even weaker through this for example.

    That is the whole point...
    Now that we are getting so many crazy ways to get strong, 0 attackspeed will no longer be neccessary.
    The amount of damage that will be put out will be too much.

    The whole point of this would be to make the game a bit harder, and also to make sure all classes are balanced among eachother.
    Classes like Luminous and Aran that are charging up their "special states" (like Adrenaline Rush and Equilibrium) wont only attack faster...
    They will aslo have that state more often due to more attacks during an x amount of time. This leads to them having their burst more often than what is intended.

    And I I dont see GMS changing up something for one specific class, I think its safe to say that the attackspeed needs to go.
    Its just not meant to be this way balance wise.

    And for the post about Bishops... They are not meant to do a lot of damage. It is a class that is supposed to help others (if you didnt know)

    And I still dont see "dont do it, we will get weaker" as an agrument.
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