[New Users] Please note that all new users need to be approved before posting. This process can take up to 24 hours. Thank you for your patience.
Check out the v.233 Destiny: Remastered Patch Notes here!
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the Forums Code of Conduct: https://forums.maplestory.nexon.net/discussion/29556/code-of-conducts
Closed

Lower attack speed cap to the same as KMS has

Comments

  • UserRedUserRed
    Reactions: 1,590
    Posts: 101
    Member
    edited July 2018
    What the hell do you think this is, Overwatch? If it benefits everyone it should be kept since people can achieve higher goals. It's not like pre-nerf Ice Age where it was ridiculously broken and everyone made an I/L to afk and use Ice Age.
  • AaronHuskyAaronHusky
    Reactions: 2,485
    Posts: 174
    Member, Private Tester
    edited July 2018
    Yes, please screw over all but 8 of the 46 playable characters in Maple. It's not like the other 38 characters matter, right?
  • DrAatroxDrAatrox
    Reactions: 1,020
    Posts: 45
    Member
    edited July 2018
    This is the problem with NA. People only care about their own class and not about the game balance overall. The already weak archers are only getting weaker compared to others with this attackspeed cap.
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
    Reactions: 8,955
    Posts: 2,669
    Member
    edited July 2018
    i dont know why he's complaining, 250 WH, max nodes and 40mil range he said. maybe that's why bosses are too easy.
    Nequeo
  • PhantomMasterThiefPhantomMasterThief
    Reactions: 3,195
    Posts: 480
    Member, Private Tester
    edited July 2018
    DrAatrox wrote: »
    This is the problem with NA. People only care about their own class and not about the game balance overall. The already weak archers are only getting weaker compared to others with this attackspeed cap.

    I would like you to search on youtube and on twitch: MisusingTV, he mains a wild hunter and one of THE Strongest in GMS
    then, go and tell me that the hurricane classes are weak.
    Nequeo
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
    Reactions: 8,955
    Posts: 2,669
    Member
    edited July 2018
    or masteringgaming, main's a phantom, second strongest phantom in gms
  • SnizzeSnizze
    Reactions: 975
    Posts: 16
    Member
    edited July 2018
    There's a lot to be said about why this would be negative besides damage reduction. The main takeaway from your argument is that hardcap is too much of a power creep with all the new additions to damage we're getting.

    First, all classes benefit from this whether you like it or not, it's just that the effect of hardcap is not as noticeable or impactful as others, this can be seen as a negative to hurricane classes because of this, even though it's still beneficial.

    But, at the same time, because this mechanic has existed for so long the playerbase has managed to create new ways to play this game that differ, mechanically, from KMS. Sure it's not as helpful on hold down skills, though it still improves them. But our hardcap has created dedicated players to perfecting the mechanics that only GMS' attainability of hardcap makes possible.

    An easy and noticeable mechanic is NW's animation cancel via jump attacking. Another is TB's endlag cast if choosing not to link skills.

    Both give more control over positioning and maneuvering due to the reduction of cast animation time. TB in particular allows the player to have more options in mobbing and bossing since they can use endlag to their advantage.

    Also KMS shares our hardcap. Your title is not going to do what you want. Do you not know the reason Blaster is always topping KMS DPM charts? Do you not understand why Bishops/BaMs are your most common supports in the first attempts at new bosses? Rune of swiftness will also break the general soft cap in most if not all versions.

    Just because you dislike how easily attainable it is in GMS, doesn't change the fact it exists elsewhere. KMS has the same attack speed cap. Your title and argument is already invalid because of this.

    The only thing KMS has done differently is making it more difficult to attain. KMS requires parties to rely on very specific classes to manage it. GMS has taken a better approach for players looking to be the master of their mechanics without needing specific classes to do so. In return this allows for us to have a wider range of viable classes as they're no longer hindered by their reliance on said support classes. And even then some classes are unable to hardcap by themselves which still makes the original soft cap breakers viable in a party among other benefits they possess as a class.

    This thread is a trainwreck, not just because what your doing is blinded by envy of others but because you don't even know what you're actually arguing for.

    EDIT:
    TL;DR You're not asking for anything. KMS has the same attack speed cap. It's not a bug, it's a feature reserved for certain classes. Get over yourself
    DarkPassenger
  • AaronHuskyAaronHusky
    Reactions: 2,485
    Posts: 174
    Member, Private Tester
    edited July 2018
    DrAatrox wrote: »
    This is the problem with NA. People only care about their own class and not about the game balance overall. The already weak archers are only getting weaker compared to others with this attackspeed cap.

    You have the gall to say this when I just pointed out how giving us KMS's attack speed cap will affect a majority of classes in the game?

    Edit: I feel like it's also worth mentioning that you main a hurricane class. Seems a little bit sus.
  • DKnukunuDKnukunu
    Reactions: 625
    Posts: 5
    Member, Private Tester
    edited July 2018
    Everything in this thread is people talking with bias. Seen several comments different places and chat on how, if this came, hurricane classes should be nerfed too.
    —(Mercedes main speaking, biased opinion)
    I don't care that much about attack speed being lowered or not, so I've seen no need to join the discussion, but I will due to all the negative bias against lowering and how that's just hurricane jobs crying.

    I believe that the main argument holds true :
    KMS is the one doing the balancing for the different jobs, so fact is that most jobs are able to increase their hits above what they balanced the game around, like say (purely an example, without any testing) a hurricane skill hitting 20 times in a second, and hero's Raging Blow doing 10 to 18, depending on enrage. Suppose that with an attack speed of 0, a hero is able to squeeze in another hit/skill raising the hit count to 15 to 27. While these numbers might not be accurate, and it might take more time before the extra hit is able to be squeezed in. This does improve overall damage quite significant, and that where the issue lays, hurricane skills got their damage % because that they normally do x amount of hits compared to other skills, intended to be used with attack speed 2. Which is where, as far as I have heard, kms got their hard speed cap, whereas we only have a soft cap.

    I will ignore the other argument about balancing around kms boss difficulty because as I see it that's just an excuse. Likewise, will I ignore the counter-argument "ffs, don't make us weaker", "it affect the startup and ending delays being shorter too", since that's just excuses as well, also "hurricane jobs are already plenty strong just look at xxx", since any job in this game can become strong enough with dedication. Therefore I believe everyone should just play what they like.
    The other argument that the mechanic has existed for this long is why I believe that attack speed should not be lowered. Some people have played their job several years and have already gotten way too accustomed now, changing the attack speed now would require many to unlearn their job, before being able to properly play it again. I feel unsettled every time I change a mere secondary key (like where I got my soul, where I party chat, etc.) for several weeks, before I get used to it again. And I believe a change in attack speed would've a bigger effect, and as Snizze wrote new ways to play have been created that people also have gotten accustomed to.

    Well if they want to do something about the first argument I wouldn't mind more final damage on hurricane skills, maybe one that scales with attack speed, so it's not just a buff without effort, but either way, I won't stop playing Mercedes.
    Viruses
  • DrAatroxDrAatrox
    Reactions: 1,020
    Posts: 45
    Member
    edited July 2018
    Thank you to Snizzle and DKnukunu for for writing something that makes sense.
    I really appreciate replies that have been thought through, and have some actual facts.

    I must disagree to your statement about everyone benefitting from it. If you consider the hurricane starting 0,1 sec faster than what it normally would... That would result in it hitting MAX one more line in the span of x amount of time, while others would hit 15% more lines. (example: 115 attacks instead of 100, while on hurricane classes that would be (best case scenario) 101 instead of 100) Just a little opinion on why it doesnt benefit us.

    For people that still didnt understand: Yes it benefits everyone, but some classes doesnt benefit enough from it to call it a benefit.
  • SnizzeSnizze
    Reactions: 975
    Posts: 16
    Member
    edited July 2018
    This does improve overall damage quite significant, and that where the issue lays, hurricane skills got their damage % because that they normally do x amount of hits compared to other skills, intended to be used with attack speed 2. Which is where, as far as I have heard, kms got their hard speed cap, whereas we only have a soft cap.

    Thanks for being very reasonable in your above post as I do honestly feel for the hurricane classes as the fact that hardcap is so attainable is actually one of the many reasons I stayed away from Wind Archer.

    All versions of this game or at least the major releases and primarily KMS have hardcap.

    Hardcap in KMS is much less attainable than in GMS due to the specific setups required. It's a big reason that hurricane burst classes, Phantom, are chosen for most of the initial bossing parties at launch. But with that in mind there are two very specific classes off the top of my head that break what most perceive as KMS' hard cap for the entire party. Those are Bishop and Battle Mage, in particular only while Benediction or Haste Aura is active. But this is a way to break soft cap.

    In addition, Blaster is so high on the KMS DPM charts because of the fact they do not need anything but their booster to hard cap. They are naturally able to do it.

    TL;DR For Others: Again, hardcap is attainable in KMS just more setup is required.
  • DrAatroxDrAatrox
    Reactions: 1,020
    Posts: 45
    Member
    edited July 2018
    Not sure, but Zero aura might also work if what you are saying is correct.
    I was not aware of KMS having hard-cap at 0 (Im still not 100% sure), but I will go check that out once again to see.

    http://seollal.tistory.com/32
    https://trees.gamemeca.com/mecareport-maplestory-tip-180109-attackspeed/

    I dont see any of these mentioning att speed 0, but I guess I could be wrong...
  • SnizzeSnizze
    Reactions: 975
    Posts: 16
    Member
    edited July 2018
    DrAatrox wrote: »
    Not sure, but Zero aura might also work if what you are saying is correct.
    I was not aware of KMS having hard-cap at 0 (Im still not 100% sure), but I will go check that out once again to see.

    http://seollal.tistory.com/32
    https://trees.gamemeca.com/mecareport-maplestory-tip-180109-attackspeed/

    I dont see any of these mentioning att speed 0, but I guess I could be wrong...

    You'll have to excuse me on benediction that was incorrect.
    Blaster is 100% a hard capping class in either version due to how Combat Training works.

    Blaster Thread on Capping
  • MageOfBattlesMageOfBattles
    Reactions: 4,280
    Posts: 576
    Member
    edited July 2018
    Yeah this guy clearly exposed himself as a troll in the discord, don't take the bait.
  • DrAatroxDrAatrox
    Reactions: 1,020
    Posts: 45
    Member
    edited July 2018
    I dont get why the community react like this.
    I suggested something that is unwanted by many people, yes... But that doesnt make a me a troll. This is a serious topic.
This discussion has been closed.