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Lower attack speed cap to the same as KMS has

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  • DrAatroxDrAatrox
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    edited July 2018
    Ivangold wrote: »
    Why is it that necessary anyway? Could be to balance out GMS to KMS, but not like other reagions such as JMS or TMS doesn't have their our things that make character there overpowered, like in TMS with a overall that have 200attack base, it's simply insane, or maybe all exclusive things in JMS.

    I don't see reason to really nerf that since we already got flames nerfed on non-KMS equips, and we might as well lose lv3link skills with the incomming 25star, that should be nerfed if we got something else to compesate from KMS version.

    Feels like you are a WH main who just hate other classes getting damage on attack speed bonuses f3, as if hurricane didn't have their own advantages, which actually helps WH with your jaguar skills.

    If level 3 links migh be gone in the 25 star patch, why cant they just change up the attackspeed cap insted then? No one mentioned the removal of lvl 3 links, but they might go? I´d say the same goes towards attack-speed.

    Also about the 200 att/matt overall in TMS, dont you think that benefits every single class over there, and not 80% of them?
    (And TMS is just a broken server in general that has way too many ways to get strong.. This is what I dont want to see happening to GMS)

    About the nerfed flames on the non-KMS equips was to make up for the crazy base stats or set effect they have. (Gollux for example, is way better than any other combination in KMS due to just raw stats + set effects. Same goes for sweetwaters if they are able to be 25 starred.

    Seeing attack-speed changed would just be healthy for GMS overall. It is KMS that are balancing the classes afterall...
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited July 2018
    I don't think you thought this through, you're making "points", but not giving any solid reasoning behind what youre saying.

    1. You haven't explained why this is needed, and by who's standards.
    2. You cant just say this will balance out the game, and it is healthy for GMS overall, without any explanation or evidence behind it.
    3. it's not as simple as re-rolling IA, people spend a lot of money on circulators, and still dont get the IA they want, outside of reboot where it is mesos that buys circulators.
    4. Your main argument was that 0 speed cap makes for 30% damage output, but now you say it wont make players any weaker? which is it because 30% less damage (overall) is a weaker version that what we have now.
    5. Some KMS players are far stronger than you would ever hope to be, even if they have no 0 cap. and you having the same speed cap as them wont help you in any way.

    I'm guessing it's a personal reason why you want the speed cap changed, because there are some bosses where every second counts, and if you dont attack fast enough, you wont kill it in time.

    Thats why classes with slower attacks, have stronger % damage in skills.

    My challenge to you is, make a new character, and play without booster, see how much you like it. In fact, play an attack speed dependent class like cadena or thunder breaker or a mage, and get it to 200 without using booster.
  • DrAatroxDrAatrox
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    edited July 2018
    How does playing a class without booster make any sense?
    That would mean I would attack with attackspeed 5? Thats not the same as 2.

    For your comment about me stating you wont be weaker would be true, but you decided to not include the 25 star systems damage gain.

    Attackspeed 2 + 25 starcap is way stronger than 0 attackspeed 15 starcap.
    Makes sense to you now?

    Now for what you might have missed:
    The reasoning.

    -We have gollux gear, already way better than any option in KMS.
    -With the 25 starcap, what do they have in KMS that we dont? (That makes you stronger) I doubt that will ever come close to gollux if there is anything at all..

    Not sure why you try to compare me to the strongest people in KMS, but the stongest people in GMS (if I am a part of them or not doesnt matter) will be stronger than the strongest in KMS. (Even with attackspeed 2)

    If you can prove me wrong, please do and I will take it to consideration and try to understand why KMS is stronger.
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited July 2018
    you only addressed 2 points out of the 5.

    25 star? assuming everyone will accomplish 25 stars. Just look at how KMS players boss, without our equips, they kill bosses in a shorter period than it takes some GMS players.

    Better yet, if you want to play like KMS does, why not just play KMS. There are ways you can, legally.

    Instead of imposing ideaology without any solid reasoning, why not just play where they have your wants in place already.



    Depending on what bosses you can do, I'm not sure exactly that you understad the importance of attack speed on end game bosses. anything under hell mode gollux, you probably dont understand the importance of it. Especially for those that wont be attempting to get 20+ stars.
    Snizze
  • UserRedUserRed
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    edited July 2018
    No please. Are you trying to kill Shades? We don't need this change, since the 0 attack speed cap is a rather small difference from 2 attack speed, it's fine. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The current attack speed cap is fine, there is no need for change.
  • DrAatroxDrAatrox
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    edited July 2018
    I adressed 4 out of your 5 points, where 1 and 2 are basically the same.
    Point 3 is not relevant.

    Just wait until we have 22 star items in GMS and you will see how broken GMS will be. (Will also include that mesos are way easier to get in GMS compared to KMS) so getting stong enough wont be a problem.

    And as I said, we are getting 25 stars soon, which is a huge part of why KMS does bosses faster. (This is the whole point)

    Getting 11 stat and 8-14 att (77 stat and 70~ att each equip at 22 stars) per star on almost every equip will be quite the change. So changing attack speed for those stats wont hurt you overall.
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited July 2018
    how is point 3 irrelevant when you say " it's about rerolling IA from atk speed +1, that's all" it is relevant

    yeah, personally, I don't care about the star force system getting 20+ stars, Im not wasting mesos on it.


    if atk speed makes such a difference, as you say, then it is an equalizer for those that dont want to star force
  • DrAatroxDrAatrox
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    edited July 2018
    And for the people that will spend on starfoce? They still have the extra attackspeed..
    This is getting stupid.

    As for your point 3; I mean exactly what I said. Just reroll it.

    And if you are not wasting for 20+, you will still gain a lot from just getting a few equips to 16+
  • DrAatroxDrAatrox
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    edited July 2018
    Also with this attackspeed, Ark is unable to use combos. (Unless you charge up battle frenzy before using your booster or Speed infusion.)
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited July 2018
    the atk speed is what helps ark use his combos, if you don't link fast enough, you don't get the buffs. It may be a matter that you don't know how to play ark rather than the atk speed is what limits his combos...………………….

    another thing, you act like everyone in GMS walks around with 0 atk speed...……………………………….
  • DrAatroxDrAatrox
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    edited July 2018
    Ok. I will make this easy to understand.

    GMS will have everything KMS has (and more ) if we look at the systems that give damage. (After 25th July)
    Here are some things that GMS has that KMS doesnt have:


    - Gollux set (Better base stats and scolling options than any pendant, ring and earring in KMS. 30% boss and ied, 35 attack, 20 all stat set effect. Already makes up for to the nerfed flames on those equips. )

    - Cursader Codex (30% ied or 3% attack if you pref that)

    - Frenzy totem / Kanna (Makes grinding much faster. Easier to get to higher levels for hyperstats and the extra 5 stat you get every level)

    - Tier 4 potentials (extra 1% stat/attack for each line you have on a level 151+ item)

    - Attackspeed 0 (An increase of 0-30% dps depending on class)

    - Level 3 link skills: (Demon Avenger, Angelic Buster, Ark, Demon Slayer, Luminous, Phantom, Cannoneer and Beast Tamer)

    -We also have the Jett linkskill that is also very strong (-> up to 35 attack and 35 stat) Would be replaced with

    -25 starable face accessory that is obtainable for most people (Sweetwater), compared to the face from Lotus that is close to impossible to get (we also have it, yes,
    but too rare to be considered a normal equip for the average player)


    ? -(Transposed Tyrant -> Sweetwaters) Either better than arcane gear if they also cap at 25 stars, or they will be worse if we get 15 star cap on them. If that happens, people will swap to Arcane gear and will be the same as KMS.


    SO!

    If you think about the extra stats we have compared to KMS it would be:

    IED: Gollux (30%) and Codex (30%) Luminous (5%) = 2x 30%, 5% more ied
    Att: Gollux (35) Jett link (up to 35) = 35-70 attack
    Stat: Jett link (up to 35) Gollux (20 )Cannoneer (10) = 20-55 stat
    Crit rate: Phantom (5%) Beast tamer (10%) = 15% crit rate
    Boss damage: Demon Slayer (5%) Beast tamer(10) Gollux (30) = 45% boss damage
    % Damage: Demon Avenger (5%) Kanna (10%) =15% damage
    % stat: 1% for every line on a level 151+ item = Depends on what items you have, but doesnt add that much in the end.
    Attackspeed: High dps increase = 0-30% (final damage)


    For what KMS has that we dont:
    -NX equips with stats. This could be up to a total of (30 stat x3 for hat, boots, cape. 30 att weapon and 15 stat 10 attack for a seteffect) = 105 stat + 40 attack


    All of this stacks up to a lot, and I know that all of it is not pure gain, because you might argue that they can use other linkskills, which is true (regarding Hayato, Jett and Beast Tamer) but they are not as strong as the ones we have. If not we would not have used them.

    KMS makes up for gollux basestats + set effect + Jett linkskill with their NX equips.

    So as you can see, there are a lot of things here that makes this server way stronger which leads to bosses being eaisier than what they are supposed to (as we get the same boss as KMS)


    If I forgot anything... please correct me, but I am not considering your lack of skill compared to players in KMS an advantage for them.
    That is something you can work on yourself!

  • iUseWASDiUseWASD
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    edited July 2018
    DrAatrox wrote: »

    SO!

    If you think about the extra stats we have compared to KMS it would be:

    IED: Gollux (30%) and Codex (30%) Luminous (5%) = 2x 30%, 5% more ied
    Att: Gollux (35) Jett link (up to 35) = 35-70 attack
    Stat: Jett link (up to 35) Gollux (20 )Cannoneer (10) = 20-55 stat
    Crit rate: Phantom (5%) Beast tamer (10%) = 15% crit rate
    Boss damage: Demon Slayer (5%) Beast tamer(10) =15% boss damage
    % Damage: Demon Avenger (5%) Kanna (10%) =15% damage
    % stat: 1% for every line on a level 151+ item = Depends on what items you have, but doesnt add that much in the end.
    Attackspeed: High dps increase = 0-30% (final damage)

    For starters, I think you forgot 30% boss dmg from Gollux.

    Second, you're stating all these extra stats we have, and claim that you think GMS "as a whole" is going to be way more powerfull, yet you only want to lower the attack speed cap.

    And then I almost forgot about items like Breath of Divinity, if anything THAT makes a boss easier than intended. Sure they are unavailable right now, but they are around in the game, and who knows how long it will be till they come back.

    If you'd be concerned about balance in general, and truly think the bosses would be too easy, you would suggest to remove level 3 links, gollux, codex,... and not just cap the attack speed at 2. But you wouldn't do that, cause that would make YOU, as hurricane class, also weaker.

  • HishotodoHishotodo
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    edited July 2018
    Why do we have to have the same amount of power as KMS? So bosses are harder? I can guarantee you that the large majority of players (even on Reboot) that have CRA gear on their characters have never defeated CRA themselves before, let alone the large slew of newer bosses that are stronger than them. I don't think it really matters unless you are already at the higher tier of gear/damage.

    I definitely feel like your argument of bossing is weaker than the class balance argument... You're going to need to be more persuasive than this to make anybody agree with you are this rate - listing advantages we have over Korea isn't going to make me care. I definitely don't care about being on equal footing with Korea. I want to know why I should care that bosses are comparatively easier.
  • DrAatroxDrAatrox
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    edited July 2018
    Thanks for reminding me about gollux boss dmg there.
    Had it in the first paragraph.. (Edited last one now)

    I stated that I didnt mind the removal of tier 4 potential when someone brought that up ealrier.
    As for the other stuff, I dont mind that either as long as we are not getting stronger from other stuff.

    If rebooters cant do cra, they are not putting in effort to actually do that.. Seen plenty of people going from nothing to solo cra in 10 days there (new account).


    Of course as a hurricane user myself, the first thing I would like to see gone is the attackspeed, to make us comparable to others.
    After that is done, I don´t care what they do. Remove codex, tier 4 potential, any system.
    But removing equips that already exist in the game is not a thing I would see nexon doing ever.
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited July 2018
    Ok so it is a personal reason why, look I main Phantom in reboot and I main Night lord in Windia, they both sit at the same range, and they both do the same bosses and finish around the same time. Maybe it's on you the reason you don't think you compare to atk speed classes. Maybe work on your stats before you try to change the game to your liking/benefit.
  • HazeyyHazeyy
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    I agree!
    Make Corsair great again!
  • PhantomMasterThiefPhantomMasterThief
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    edited July 2018
    So far all what's i'm seeing from this thread is; i main a wild hunter and people say my class is weak, so i want every other class to get weaker so that my EGO will boost itself to 12.

    Personally i main a phantom, and it's not just that i don't mind the 0 Attack speed But i fkn love it, cause it makes casting: carte rose finale, penombre, rapier wit, and other 4th job stollen skills much faster.

    ALSO FYI: all MapleStory versions have up to 0 attack speed, it's just that it's easier to hit that in both; GMS and TMS, kms can hit that, but it's just harder to reach there.

    i didn't even want to respond to this thread, but your'e acting like an entitled prick, and it's annoying to see such a behaviour.

    i'm not gonna lie, i also was like you (at least i thought i wanted to not have attack speed: 0) but then i looked at what it gives to other people and what it gives to me, attack speed: 0 literally benefits EVERYONE.

    Pro-Tip: Don't take DPM/DPS charts as the b-all end-all, they are just for showcasing the class and bragging rights, AKA; they are not a real representation of the class abilities or gameplay.
    NequeoSnizzeBDO
  • DrAatroxDrAatrox
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    edited July 2018
    If you go to this Korean site about maplestory: (updated 5 days ago)
    https://namu.wiki/w/메이플스토리/스탯#s-1.2.2
    (You can translate with goodle if you dont understand it ofc)

    You might be refering to the bug they had in MapleSEA in 2017 (doubt it), when they could reach attackspeed 0 with a rune etc.. That is patched (fixed) over there.

    You will see that the cap sits at 2 over there (both KMS and MapleSEA), so I am not looking to boost my own ego. Im rather trying to suggest a change to the game so it will be balanced over here aswell.
    (Not leaving classes that dont benefit from attack speed behind)

    Classes are balanced around having attackspeed 2 afterall... You can do some research and come back to me then.
  • DarkPassengerDarkPassenger
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    edited July 2018
    Youre missing the point that attack speed does benefit everyone. Just not the speed of hurricane type skills, just the cast delay.


    thus far, youre the only one complaining that youre not good enough. Maybe switch classes to something else if attack speed gets to you. Cause like I said, not everyone in GMS walks around at 0 atk speed.


    Right now, Im training a cannoneer and youre gonna need a whole heckin army to take atk speed away from me.
    NequeoBDO
  • DFDFDDFDFD
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    edited July 2018
    You can complain about bosses being too easy once you clear Hard Will. Seriously, why would anyone in their right mind think this is a good idea?
    DarkPassengerNequeo
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