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World Merge+Leap Event?

n0Reasonn0Reason
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edited May 2017 in Suggestions, Feedback, and Requests
From what I remember, we haven't had a World Leap since late 2015. With the Meso Market being added to normal servers and a big content update coming up, I think it's a great opportunity to free up some of the space in Reboot and liven up some of the less populated servers.

I also understand that in KMS' last world leap, they didn't allow transfers out of Reboot, but we've had things done in GMS that weren't done in KMS in the past (KMS also has a second Reboot world, so they don't suffer nearly as massive server issues during big patches). Anyways, a Reboot character is essentially a non-Reboot character that was geared without trading and with a skill that gives %dmg per level that can be removed from (or simply disabled for) characters transferring out of Reboot. There isn't any real advantage from leaving Reboot beyond whatever equips you could carry (none of which being exclusive to the server) in your pockets when you make the transfer.

My friends and I, with the introduction of the Meso Market, are starting to see less and less reason to stay in Reboot. The only things really keeping us there are our mains. While we are definitely a minority, I think getting as many people out of Reboot before a big patch would be only beneficial to the server, and more populated servers are great for the longevity of the game.

Comments

  • SealSeal
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    edited May 2017
    It seems like it would be a good idea, people migrating to a P2W server, which is their #1 source of income from cubes. But players would probably cube their gear before migrating so it essentially won't happen. Instead of benefiting Nexon, it would negatively affect it instead since players would just cube their gear until it's Legendary before moving and having best of both worlds. Also, I believe rates differ between the servers.

    Yes, I know you can also get legendary gear on non-Reboot worlds without spending any money, but the process would take WAY longer, like years long.
  • HHG1HHG1
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    edited May 2017
    I'm not against a transfer event. But transfers should not under any circumstances be allowed between regular servers and reboot.
    Yonax
  • n0Reasonn0Reason
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    edited May 2017
    Seal wrote: »
    It seems like it would be a good idea, people migrating to a P2W server, which is their #1 source of income from cubes. But players would probably cube their gear before migrating so it essentially won't happen. Instead of benefiting Nexon, it would negatively affect it instead since players would just cube their gear until it's Legendary before moving and having best of both worlds. Also, I believe rates differ between the servers.

    Yes, I know you can also get legendary gear on non-Reboot worlds without spending any money, but the process would take WAY longer, like years long.

    There's still bpot that's unavailable in Reboot that people coming from would want to cube. This is only even kind of a problem amongst the highest percentage of Reboot players, who probably like the system enough to stay.
    SadVirgin wrote: »
    I'm not against a transfer event. But transfers should not under any circumstances be allowed between regular servers and reboot.

    Why not let people out of Reboot? I genuinely can't think of a good reason.
  • SaekiSenpaiSaekiSenpai
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    edited May 2017
    Reboot is like a gang. Once you're in, you can't get out.

    Not to mention cash shop items can be bought for mesos on Reboot. So a rich player could buy a ton of cubes/scrolls, transfer and then flood the market. Not ideal.
  • HHG1HHG1
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    edited May 2017
    @n0Reason You would have to completely wipe the characters of all tradeable and psokable items and meso (save for untradeable NX equips and maybe some event items) upon transfer for it to not screw up the market and be abused by botters for black market monetary gains. All the chairs that reboot players have gained would need to be made untradeable, because Reboot gets high-value chairs from random reward items where regular servers get junk scrolls etc. The Re:Zero boxes being the most recent example, and they're even available for meso.

    Even then there's the fact that Reboot has higher exp gain, and you'd be bumping down players on the specific regular World ranking.

    You wouldn't let a regular server player transfer into Reboot either because of the differences between the two servers.
  • n0Reasonn0Reason
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    edited May 2017
    @SadVirgin Okay, the chairs concern is understandable, I didn't realize that those chairs were highly valued in normal servers. However for the other points, to my knowledge, the only high value equips that are affected by Reboot's drop rates are Tyrant Capes, and I'm more than willing to bet that there won't be nearly enough of an influx of Tyrant Capes to destroy the market. Same goes for meso, since there's a max amount of meso that a character can hold, especially if they have the same restriction of a character having to be a certain level by the time the event is announced to participate. The exp rate is also due to the fact that Reboot has higher hp mobs, the hp:exp is the same across normal and Reboot servers iirc, and normal servers have the benefit of CS exp coupons and Frenzy Totems so it's a wash (arguably favoring normal servers) when it comes to the effort to level among the top % of either server.

    The reason you wouldn't let someone transfer in to Reboot is because a character coming into Reboot has a distinct advantage if they have, say, a Frenzy Totem, or any event/marvel machine gear that was unavailable in Reboot.

    Tbh though, if it was such a problem that they had to wipe non event/nx gear, I'd still probably take that route. However, I do not believe that it'd be a problem if they gave no warning of the event coming, as a lot of the things that could be problematic are mostly only issues if there's enough warning to those who'd abuse it.
  • n0Reasonn0Reason
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    edited May 2017
    @SaekiSenpai I see no reason they couldn't bar characters with cubes (and other offending items) from leaving Reboot to prevent that
  • HHG1HHG1
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    edited May 2017
    @n0Reason Reboot also has valuable throwing stars that are sold by NPCs for a negligible amount of meso compared to what they're worth on regular servers. The issue with botters infusing regular servers with reboot-meso would still stand.

    And yes, regular server players would have distinct advantages in reboot if they were to keep their items and it's just as wrong. They'd be strong as hell, but have forfeited the market value of their items.

    Reboot players would have the distinct advantage of bringing in good-decent-godly gear that came from "nothing" essentially. Now those items are suddenly worth something more. Be that meso or real money on the black market. That's how botters or people looking to cash out would have an easier time doing so by abusing the transfer event. As it is now they'd have to just sell the entire account and that's more of a risk for a buyer, not to mention individual items are probably easier to sell than an entire account. If the same items were made in regular servers, they would have drained meso or NX from the market already. And making them without any of that (just by crafting cubes from material you've farmed yourself) would have taken way longer than it does in reboot to gain meso for cubes.

    What I'm saying is that the servers are too different for there to be crossovers. If it's from one market to another, sure, cause then you take value from one server's market and utilize it elsewhere for marginal profit and there will still be balance, but reboot lacks a market. It'd just be an influx of new items that have suddenly gained full value in a market.

    I'm no expert on this stuff, but that's my take on it.
    AKradian
  • AKradianAKradian
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    edited May 2017
    I agree with SadVirgin. The worlds are too different to allow people to transfer into or out of Reboot.

    Just as people who decided to move to Reboot when it came out, had to start over, so anyone who wants to move to a normal server after playing Reboot will have to start over.
  • n0Reasonn0Reason
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    edited May 2017
    @SadVirgin The thing is those kind of things would have a negligible impact on the economy as long as there are limits to what characters can move (only characters lvl 33 created before the event announcement). Sure there may be botters who capitalize on it to make personal bank, but there's nowhere near enough to where the impact on the economy would be noticeable. These are economies that have been running for many years, there is no amount of abuse that would be anything more than a drop in the bucket in comparison to the rampant botting that is already occurring.

    I also highly doubt that accounts are harder to sell than items, seeing as accounts only have ip to trace (which is easily explained by moving), and items have the trade that occurs in game (but hey, that's just speculation, I have no idea how Nexon monitors trades, so they could both be equally easy or hard). I have no intention on looking at the current going rates for Reboot accounts vs normal server accounts, but considering the fact that Reboot is more populated, progress is seen as a badge of honor because it's seen as "harder" by the general Reboot population, and the fact that good gear takes billions of meso to craft, which can take tens of hours of straight grind on specially made characters per piece of gear (not even considering the grind it takes to get the specific piece of gear, which can be months for certain items), it feels like a everything being sold on Reboot on the black market would be valued higher than if it were sold on normal servers. Especially when I go to a normal server and consider how cheap everything is using the Meso Market as a guideline.
  • AKradianAKradian
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    edited May 2017
    The issue isn't only the effect on the economy. It's also personal advantage. People in the normal servers paid good money to become strong, and now you and your Reboot friends are going to waltz in with your free legendary gear, 5x meso drop mesos, and 3x leveling speed levels and pass them on rankings and dojo, and buy up all the Primes in the market and/or deflate their meso further?
  • n0Reasonn0Reason
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    edited May 2017
    @AKradian Again, Reboot isn't actually 3x leveling speed, the HP:EXP ratios are the same across servers, but Reboot has much higher HP mobs to the point where it only matters in the highest percent of players, where in normal servers, they benefit from x2 CS coupons and Frenzy Totem, where they can easily edge out Reboot in exp gain. The meso gain is also irrelevant because of how deflated meso are in normal servers (as you said so yourself). There are so many efficient things to farm in normal servers, that I could easily make more meso from a shop and a little bit of game knowledge than I ever could with a fully decked out kanna meso mule in Reboot (which on its own takes hundreds of hours to gear up sufficiently). To add onto it, you can only transfer 10b per character. Do you really think that the amount of people who would jump ship would bring any significant amount of meso into the market? It's a drop in the bucket. The dojo thing is more touchy, I suppose. However, you need to remember that Reboot doesn't have bpot, scrolling, violet cubes, or many of the BiS options that normal servers have. Any person topping dojo worth their salt will have hundreds of attack, and probably thousands of mainstat on any person coming from Reboot (assuming the very top percent of people in Reboot are wanting to even leave).
  • AKradianAKradian
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    edited May 2017
    Yes, but if you bring in several inventories worth of legendary fafs and gollux's, you'll be able to buy all the Primes you need, as well as the bpot cubes (through meso market).

    It doesn't matter whether it's just the top 1% of Reboot. If they come to the other servers and compete with the top 1% of those servers, it's not fair.

    If you can level up and make money so much faster in normal servers, why are you even trying to transfer in? Just start over, it'd be much easier than waiting for Nexon to consider the idea and, even if they do implement it, months down the road, they might do so in a way you don't like.
    Its2Sharp4U
  • PetalmagicPetalmagic
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    edited May 2017
    Well...if I got to transfer one my characters into reboot...All teh cash items that I have...would go there. Hehehe. Yeah, I wish they would just do a once in a lifetime transfer CS items across worlds so I can have my special perm NX (that you cannot seem to get anymore) on my characters I actually play. Just exclude stuff like cubes/gear progressing items and that would be a decent event :T
    JettLuvsU
  • HHG1HHG1
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    edited May 2017
    n0Reason wrote: »
    @SadVirgin The thing is those kind of things would have a negligible impact on the economy as long as there are limits to what characters can move (only characters lvl 33 created before the event announcement). Sure there may be botters who capitalize on it to make personal bank, but there's nowhere near enough to where the impact on the economy would be noticeable. These are economies that have been running for many years, there is no amount of abuse that would be anything more than a drop in the bucket in comparison to the rampant botting that is already occurring.

    I also highly doubt that accounts are harder to sell than items, seeing as accounts only have ip to trace (which is easily explained by moving), and items have the trade that occurs in game (but hey, that's just speculation, I have no idea how Nexon monitors trades, so they could both be equally easy or hard). I have no intention on looking at the current going rates for Reboot accounts vs normal server accounts, but considering the fact that Reboot is more populated, progress is seen as a badge of honor because it's seen as "harder" by the general Reboot population, and the fact that good gear takes billions of meso to craft, which can take tens of hours of straight grind on specially made characters per piece of gear (not even considering the grind it takes to get the specific piece of gear, which can be months for certain items), it feels like a everything being sold on Reboot on the black market would be valued higher than if it were sold on normal servers. Especially when I go to a normal server and consider how cheap everything is using the Meso Market as a guideline.

    What I mean by easier is that there are more people buying gear in regular servers than there are people who are interested in buying entire accounts on reboot.
    It's easier to strip it down and sell the parts, and you'd likely profit more that way too.

    And it doesn't matter how many mesos it takes in reboot to make the gear, the fact is that you have higher meso rates and that cubes go for meso. Bringing the equips to regular servers would be like me printing money. Or pulling a diamond out of an alternate universe where diamonds grow on trees.

    The concern is about bringing these items into a real market when they've previously held no value.
    If you recall the time Nexon accidentally misspriced gachapon tickets and people were pulling high value items out of "thin air" in the sense that these items would not have existed in such bounty if the gach tickets had been properly priced. That's why they temp banned everyone to assess the situation. Ultimately they had to let people keep the items despite the impact on the market because of the outrage. That, and gach is mostly filled with junk anyway so the impact wasn't that huge.

    I sympathize with you, but you're gonna have to start over if you want to join regular servers.
  • CatoooloooCatooolooo
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    edited May 2017
    n0Reason wrote: »

    Why not let people out of Reboot? I genuinely can't think of a good reason.

    Reboot character's can't do world leap events to regular servers, maybe if a REboot 2 is released then they can leap between Reboot and Reboot 2 as long as Reboot 2 is also on the NA servers.

    Lets not forget that characters that are made on reboot have certain passive skills that would make world leap way more complicated because the service of world leap was not made to handle changing and removing of character skills, on top of other reasons, some of which have already been mentioned.

    there's also the issue of "if people are allowed to transfer out of reboot with their characters, then I should be allowed to transfer into reboot with my characters" because it really wouldn't be fair if a person funds themselves on reboot and gets boosted levels and then decides they want to keep their 200+ character with all their freely cubed gear and transfers over but if we want to be on reboot we have to start all over. If you're allowed to transfer with all your items and progression then I should be allowed to transfer with all my perm pets and other equipment.

    Lets also not forget the purpose of reboot is not just to only be a non-P2W (or Less P2W) server, it's also meant to serve as a server that works somewhat like a Classical RPG (despite the "broken" drop tables for Reboot in GMS, if they were to "fix" them we would have no familiar cards in any server) and give you basic forward progression through drops and not buying your way up from others or through in game services and no trading to other characters (including your own). that is what you sign up for when you play in Reboot. If you come to the conclusion you don't like that or that it's not for you, you have to start fresh on a normal server, just like if people still don't like the normal servers for how P2W they can be they have to start fresh on Reboot.
  • n0Reasonn0Reason
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    edited May 2017
    @AKradian If it's a short lived event and it comes unannounced, then nobody on Reboot would be able to have even AN inventory of legendary gollux/fafnir. Maybe a spare or two if you have decent skills, drop sets, and bossing sets among the top of the top percent. Maybe a good handful of clean ones if you ran carries and looted the emblems afterwards. You're talking about stuff that'd take weeks or even months to build up just suddenly appearing. Also, I'm not talking about bringing the top 1% to compete with the top 1%, that's what you imply with every point you make. Most people who'd be interested in transferring out probably aren't even the top 1%. The reason I don't leave is because me and my friends all have 220+ characters filled with event gear, chairs (I have two VVorld Record chairs), absolabs, nx (for example, my main has over 70 hairs saved and many perm nx sets that were limited time sales), and literally hundreds, nearing on thousands of hours invested in our mains alone. Not many people are willing to simply step away from that.

    I still hold that it'd be fair to let people out of Reboot, but I don't feel that it's really within my abilities to articulate further or convince you guys. Regardless, it wasn't a post to the community, it was just really a shot in the dark with a prayer attached. Nexon has acted against popular opinion in the past, and this is just one of those occasions where I'll sit in the minority and hope that if anyone from Nexon managed to see this, they saw the points that I tried to make and sided with me.

    I just don't think I can really contribute anymore to this thread beyond what I've already said. I love you all, and hope you have a wonderful day.
  • ShadEightShadEight
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    edited May 2017
    I don't ever see a reboot to normal server transfers becoming a thing, nor should they
    JettLuvsUCatooolooo